Wikileaks reveals US/Sayed khomeini links

[DigitalUmmah]

Salam, ya ali (as) madad, lanat upon the enemies of the Ahlulbayt (as)

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1979PARIS02949_e.html

quite an interesting read.

To summarise, sayed khomeini was in secret talks pre revolution and agreed with the US government that if they allowed him to return to iran from france, he would calm down the people and protect US interests.

I do find it quite funny how common iranians are whipped up into a frenzied hysteria each congregational prayer "marj bar usa" by the same people maintaining good relations with the same USA they are getting the common people to curse.

I was suspicious of USA/Iran links ever since i studied the Iran/Contra affair, but this? it neither suprises me or dissapoints me or shocks me. basically I have always believed that all those at top levels of government are the same, but us peasant class are just told whatever suits their purpose.

[A true Sunni]

11 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Salam, ya ali (as) madad, lanat upon the enemies of the Ahlulbayt (as)

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1979PARIS02949_e.html

quite an interesting read.

To summarise, sayed khomeini was in secret talks pre revolution and agreed with the US government that if they allowed him to return to iran from france, he would calm down the people and protect US interests.

I do find it quite funny how common iranians are whipped up into a frenzied hysteria each congregational prayer "marj bar usa" by the same people maintaining good relations with the same USA they are getting the common people to curse.

I was suspicious of USA/Iran links ever since i studied the Iran/Contra affair, but this? it neither suprises me or dissapoints me or shocks me. basically I have always believed that all those at top levels of government are the same, but us peasant class are just told whatever suits their purpose.

Its not new news really. This story has been around for many years. I prefer to think of it as Ayatullah Khomeini out witted the USA. 

They had overthrown a legittimate government in the 50s and he couldn't allow it to happen again.

He made them promises this neutralising them and then told them to take a hike.

Seems pretty smart to me

[Soldiers and Saffron]

Ws,

Perhaps he beat them at their own game? Because now, the number one enemy of the american government is Iran.

[haideriam]

20 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1979PARIS02949_e.html

quite an interesting read.

saw nothing but beauty in there.

Americans are safe American legitimate interests are safe. 

Iranians achieved their ends.

[Spiritual]

15 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Perhaps he beat them at their own game? Because now, the number one enemy of the american government is Iran.

Who knows??? He has a background of asking American help....
Brother DU, If this news is true, you have disappointed me with this news. This really has hurt the image of Ayatullah Khamenei.

[haideriam]

 

46 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

To summarise, sayed khomeini was in secret talks pre revolution and agreed with the US government that if they allowed him to return to iran from france, he would calm down the people and protect US interests.

 

16 minutes ago, Spiritual said:

Who knows??? He has a background of asking American help....
Brother DU, If this news is true, you have disappointed me with this news. This really has hurt the image of Ayatullah Khamenei.

 

May Allah(swt) and Syed Baqir Nisar Zaidi(Peer O Murshad) protect us from inbuilt biases for which there is no cure except with true turning. 

Or just maybe the horse dung peppermint tablet.(stop taking them)

[khamosh21]

This thread is a good example of make hasty/biased judgements.

[DigitalUmmah]

there is a lot of circumstantial evidence of Iranian collusion with the USA behind the scenes. like I said this is not anything at all shocking to me. 

leaving aside the Iran/contra affair (which I will type up when I have the time), the highly suspicious release of the Iranian hostages to coincide perfectly with the day of Reagan winning the US election (look up the "October surprise") absolutely reeks of Iran/USA scheming. 

for those that do not know - president carter was unsuccessful in releasing the iranian hostages, it came up to election season and Reagen was running against him. Reagen used the hostage situation as a political tool during the campaign. 

Iranian hostages released - January 20 1981. the same day - the same hour - that Reagen was being sworn in as US president. 

for anyone with any sense, does this not seem like Iran and the USA were quite clearly in plans with each other? at the same time that common iranians were cursing the USA in every prayer? 

[maes]

1 hour ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Salam, ya ali (as) madad, lanat upon the enemies of the Ahlulbayt (as)

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1979PARIS02949_e.html

quite an interesting read.

To summarise, sayed khomeini was in secret talks pre revolution and agreed with the US government that if they allowed him to return to iran from france, he would calm down the people and protect US interests.

This is exaggerated intentionally for certain purposes. Be careful man, Khomeini was a great leader and a man of God and the hope of oppressed people.

In fact at first Iran cut it's relations with Israel and South Africa because those two governments were apartheid regimes. The apartheid regime of south Africa collapsed but Israel still exists.

Iran had no intention to cut it's relation with USA or any other government or nation. But as more USA continued it's enmity and it did not return Shah to Iran and it started attacking and coups and supporting terrorists inside and outside of Iran against the revolution, Iran had to cut it's relations with USA.

USA only wants one thing, that Iran gets aligned with Israel. The same as before revolution. While this has been always the red line of the revolution of Iran. So USA is still continuing it's enmity and it will continue it .

     

Yes if someday USA stops it's enmity and arrogance and it becomes a country like other countries. Iran will establish it's relations with USA too.

However I would say this is practically impossible. Because the influence of zhionists are a lot in USA, USA is built to serve the zhionists.

Edited November 30, 2016 by maes

[DigitalUmmah]

1 hour ago, A true Sunni said:

He made them promises this neutralising them and then told them to take a hike.

Seems pretty smart to me

I don't think saying sayed khomeini lied/ manipulated people to get what he wanted furthers your argument. its definitely not the code of  conduct expected from shia. 

[Ali_Hussain]

3-20 (The compiler of the book narrated) that his father - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Sa’ed ibn Abdullah quoted Ahmad ibn al-Hussein ibn Sa’id, on the authority of Abil-Hussein ibn al-Hazrami, on the authority of Jamil ibn Dur’raj, on the authority of Muhammad ibn Sa’id, on the authority of Al-Maharebi, on the authority of Ja’far ibn Muhammad (MGB), on the authority of his father (MGB), on the authority of his forefathers (MGB), on the authority of Ali (MGB) that the Prophet (MGB) said, “There are three situations in which it is good to lie: when plotting in a war, when promising to your wife, and when interceding between two people to improve their relationship. There are three situations in which it is bad to tell the truth: in gossiping, in informing a man about his wife, and when denying some (bad) news.” The Prophet (MGB) added, “Associating with three groups of people will spoil the heart: associating with mean people, talking with women and associating with rich people.”

https://www.al-islam.org/al-khisal-numeric-classification-traditions-characteristics-shaykh-saduq/part-3-three-numbered#three-occasions-lying-three-occasions-not-tell-truth-three-occasions-not-associate

[DigitalUmmah]

10 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

“There are three situations in which it is good to lie: when plotting in a war, when promising to your wife, and when interceding between two people to improve their relationship.

which of these three apply to this situation?

[Ali_Hussain]

Just now, DigitalUmmah said:

which of these three apply to this situation?

Plotting a war.

[DigitalUmmah]

Just now, Ali_Hussain said:

Plotting a war.

who was sayed khomeini plotting a war against?

[Ali_Hussain]

Just now, DigitalUmmah said:

who was sayed khomeini plotting a war against?

Obviously America, I'm not saying that that was his intention, but we don't know that it wasn't.

[DigitalUmmah]

1 minute ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Obviously America

er. no. 

[A true Sunni]

43 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I don't think saying sayed khomeini lied/ manipulated people to get what he wanted furthers your argument. its definitely not the code of  conduct expected from shia. 

Nothing wrong with lying in Islam. Look at the history of Jange Khandaq. Use of spies etc to eventually win the battle.

[DigitalUmmah]

1 minute ago, A true Sunni said:

Nothing wrong with lying in Islam. Look at the history of Jange Khandaq. Use of spies etc to eventually win the battle.

there is man, the Quran explicitly curses the liars

[3.61] But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.

[A true Sunni]

1 minute ago, DigitalUmmah said:

there is man, the Quran explicitly curses the liars

[3.61] But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.

Read the history of Jange Khandaq. You are a knowledgable person and it's possible to misunderstand the difference between lying and espionage.

Edited November 30, 2016 by A true Sunni

[kamyar]

In Islam it is not just accusing without solid proofs regarded as a great sin and forbidden, but also spreading it:

ولا تقف مالیس لک به علم ان السمع والبصر والفۆاد کل اولئک کان عنه مسئولا

And this approach, spreading rumors without required knowledge, is not light in the sight of Allah:

"When you rumoured with your tongues after hearing such matters, and uttered with your mouths about which you had no knowledge, and you considered it light; and that, in the sight of Allah, is very great." [24:15]

Insha'Allah, I will talk about the topic later in more detail.

[DigitalUmmah]

Just now, A true Sunni said:

Read the history of Jange Khandaq

pshhhh as if I don't know about khandaq. dont see its relevance though

https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol-2-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/battle-khandaq

Quote

 

When the Prophet heard what a powerful army was advancing against him, he held a council of war with his companions, who were in all seven hundred men. Salman the Farsi observed, “A small force cannot withstand a large one.” “What shall we do then?” said the Prophet. Salman replied, “Let us entrench ourselves in such a manner that we can be attacked only in one quarter.”

Jibraeel descended and pronounced the plan of Salman excellent and declared it must be executed. The ground was then marked out from Uhud to Rayah, and divided into sections of twenty or thirty feet, each section being assigned to a particular party for excavation. The Muslims began the work with spades and pickaxes, the Prophet himself laboring in a section of the Muhajireen.

 

Quote

News of the defection of Bani Quraiza much depressed the Prophet and his companions. He sent two men, one of whom was Saad bin Maaz, to learn the true state of the matter, and charged them, if they found reports correct, on their return to inform none of it but himself, and to signify it to him by the password “Azul and Alqarah” which were the names of two Quraish clans who once professed Islam, but had practiced deceit and become infidels.

the prophet dispatches spies, sure, to find out information. this is not the same as this situation at all

[A true Sunni]

9 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

pshhhh as if I don't know about khandaq. dont see its relevance though

https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol-2-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/battle-khandaq

the prophet dispatches spies, sure, to find out information. this is not the same as this situation at all

You are reading the highly summarised version. Go read it in more detail. It's highly relevant

[Soldiers and Saffron]

49 minutes ago, Spiritual said:

Who knows??? He has a background of asking American help....
Brother DU, If this news is true, you have disappointed me with this news. This really has hurt the image of Ayatullah Khamenei.

Let suppose is being claimed is actually true.

How has it hurt Ayatullah Khomeinis image? He tricked the devil and beat his own game, that is a sign of great cleverness and foresight.

Or you did you really meant to say Khamenei? In that case I am even more confused

 

Either way, please realize that whether you are pro WF or anti WF or whatever, by talking about this type of thing you are only playing the hands of the enemies of Islam because you are causing fitna based on unproven events.

Also, please realize when to show respect, first of all Ayatollah Khomeini and Ayatollah Khamenei, they are ayatollahs, ok? Also, both Khomeini and Khamenei has done more for shia islam than anyone of you who are sitting here criticizing another muslim on a online forum. Realize how many enemies they had/have, then ask yourself if its really correct to openly criticize like that, is it really your place to criticize to begin with?

Or did you get ill treated by Iranians so now you dislike everything that has to do with Iran and seeing them as "cultural muslims" and favoring the true indo-pak muslims? Then you have truly played into the hands of the enemies of islam.

[Haydar Husayn]

1 hour ago, DigitalUmmah said:

leaving aside the Iran/contra affair (which I will type up when I have the time), the highly suspicious release of the Iranian hostages to coincide perfectly with the day of Reagan winning the US election (look up the "October surprise") absolutely reeks of Iran/USA scheming. 

for those that do not know - president carter was unsuccessful in releasing the iranian hostages, it came up to election season and Reagen was running against him. Reagen used the hostage situation as a political tool during the campaign. 

Iranian hostages released - January 20 1981. the same day - the same hour - that Reagen was being sworn in as US president. 

for anyone with any sense, does this not seem like Iran and the USA were quite clearly in plans with each other? at the same time that common iranians were cursing the USA in every prayer? 

Or alternatively it was done to hurt Carter in revenge for his attitude towards Iran during his presidency. Having said that, I think that this was a big mistake.

[DigitalUmmah]

2 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Or alternatively it was done to hurt Carter in revenge for his attitude towards Iran during his presidency. Having said that, I think that this was a big mistake.

My point is more about the fact that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence of Iran and US being on cooperative terms behind closed doors, while regular common iranians are howling like a baying mob cursing the USA in congregational prayers

[haideriam]

2 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Or alternatively it was done to hurt Carter in revenge for his attitude towards Iran during his presidency. Having said that, I think that this was a big mistake.

The Government not being led by the Imam Mahdi(ajtfs) can make mistakes and this is a more positive way of analysing ones' (shia) actions. 

[DigitalUmmah]

7 minutes ago, A true Sunni said:

 

You are reading the highly summarised version. Go read it in more detail. It's highly relevant

which version is more detailed than hayat ul qulub?

[A true Sunni]

6 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

which version is more detailed than hayat ul qulub?

If you got the run up to the battle and the battle in particular the roles of the spies online can you post. We can discuss it further

[haideriam]

11 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

My point is more about the fact that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence of Iran and US being on cooperative terms behind closed doors, while regular common iranians are howling like a baying mob cursing the USA in congregational prayers

is it allowed this circumstantial evidence to base your facts on in Islam and would we call it rumour mongering or otherwise. If it is too OT we could perhaps split it.

[A true Sunni]

1 hour ago, DigitalUmmah said:

pshhhh as if I don't know about khandaq. dont see its relevance though

https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol-2-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/battle-khandaq

the prophet dispatches spies, sure, to find out information. this is not the same as this situation at all

Nadeem bin Masud Ashjai

was the name of the spy. Read about him. Pretty clear cut. It's in the link you sent

Edited November 30, 2016 by A true Sunni

[Spiritual]

1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

Let suppose is being claimed is actually true.

How has it hurt Ayatullah Khomeinis image? He tricked the devil and beat his own game, that is a sign of great cleverness and foresight.

First excuse me for my mistake, it was Ayatullah Khomeini.

His image got hurt in my sight. He was my Marja e Taqleed. I loved him too much. He declared America as big satan, this thread/ news surprised me.

[haideriam]

6 minutes ago, Spiritual said:

First excuse me for my mistake, it was Ayatullah Khomeini.

His image got hurt in my sight. He was my Marja e Taqleed. I loved him too much. He declared America as big satan, this thread/ news surprised me.

Should I laugh or cry, you have all the explosive news and yet you feign lack of knowledge......Astaghfirullah...'Game is on' Bro. Salam to Syed Baqir Nisar Zaidi.

[Spiritual]

9 minutes ago, haideriam said:

Should I laugh or cry, you have all the explosive news and yet you feign lack of knowledge......Astaghfirullah...'Game is on' Bro. Salam to Syed Baqir Nisar Zaidi.

Whether you cry or laugh, you cannot remove the "daemi phitkar" from your face. 

[A true Sunni]

33 minutes ago, Spiritual said:

First excuse me for my mistake, it was Ayatullah Khomeini.

His image got hurt in my sight. He was my Marja e Taqleed. I loved him too much. He declared America as big satan, this thread/ news surprised me.

Funny guy talking about 'image' when you are blood letting wannabe. 

Funny how image is so important to you but the rest of world can go to hell. Self centred wannabee

[Spiritual]

4 minutes ago, A true Sunni said:

Funny guy talking about 'image' when you are blood letting wannabe. 

Funny how image is so important to you but the rest of world can go to hell. Self centred wannabee

Here is another case of "daemi phitkar".