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In the Name of God بسم الله

Do we Belive that we can see Allah?

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Salam 

sunnis say u can never see Allah do we Belive we can see Allah and how?

I also wonder according to Islam has a human always believed that Allah exists until other humans try to say no that Allah doesn't exist?

is this order right in the religion of Shia Islam Allah, The prophet and the 12 Imams?

thanks 

shia chat has helped a lot

 

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6 minutes ago, Arad Etemad said:

Salam 

sunnis say u can never see Allah do we Belive we can see Allah and how?

I also wonder according to Islam has a human always believed that Allah exists until other humans try to say no that Allah doesn't exist?

is this order right in the religion of Shia Islam Allah, The prophet and the 12 Imams?

thanks 

shia chat has helped a lot

 

Some branches of Sunni Islam claim that Allah will be seen with the naked eye on the day of Judgment. Shias say that Allah can never be seen.

I do not understand your second question.

Yes, that order is correct

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14 minutes ago, Arad Etemad said:

sunnis say u can never see Allah do we Belive we can see Allah and how?

Bismillah.

Salam Alaykum.

I called you a liar before and this is my proof and caught your hands in the cookie jar! Sunnis do believe that you can see Allah in heaven, according to you Sunnis, we can see Allah (astaghfurillah) in heaven, god as a long beard, he has a shin, he has hands, a face, he sits on a throne, and he will be in a human form. ITS SHIAS OF ALI IBN ABU TALIB A.S THAT SAY WE CAN NEVER SEE Allah, NEVER MEANS IN THIS WORLD AND IN THE NEXT WORLD.

Wasalam.

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It's impossible to physically see Allah. Our existence is made up of time, space and matter but Allah is not from the essence of our existence to be bound by such principles. However he is still everywhere amongst us and one can indirectly see him through his beautiful creations in this world.

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54 minutes ago, Arad Etemad said:

Salam 

sunnis say u can never see Allah do we Belive we can see Allah and how?

I also wonder according to Islam has a human always believed that Allah exists until other humans try to say no that Allah doesn't exist?

is this order right in the religion of Shia Islam Allah, The prophet and the 12 Imams?

thanks 

shia chat has helped a lot

 

For the issue of can we see Allah, this should help : 

https://www.medinaminds.com/the-islamic-view-can-we-see-god/

 

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Salam

We can't fully see God, but we can see God.

The following is from munajatal Shabaniya which has been passed to us by many authentic chains and chains, to the level of mutawatur:

My Lord, grant me complete severance of my relations with everything else and total submission to You. Enlighten the eyes of our hearts with the light of their looking at You to the extent that they penetrate the veils of light and reach the Source of Grandeur, and let our souls get suspended by the glory of Your sanctity.
My Lord, make me one of those whom You call and they respond; when You look at and they are thunderstruck by Your majesty. You whisper to them secretly and they work for You openly.

 

Don't die without looking at God so that you are blind in the next world and veiled in the next world.  And if you cannot look at God, at least see the very fact he must see you and see you exist through his perception. The latter will guide you quickly to looking at God.

 

 

 

 

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Salam 

What I have been known about Allah is - Allah has no body no structure its not a kind of sheh Allah cannot be assembled anywhere is is everywhere 

Because u see if we say Allah has body then the body needs creation so there must be someone above him his creator whichwhich will somewhere I guess go in shirk context their is only one god and thatthat is Allah who has no presence body structure

So if no body how can u see Allah ???

And I know about this thing they believe because there is a verse in Quran which ssays that on the day of judgement his knees (or some other body part might be mentioned) will reveal......

SoSo they consider that Allah will be seen astaghferullah

See this is why we saysay Shiism has true Islam and right beliefs if Sunnis actually wanna know what Allah wishes us to know from Quran come to ahlulbait as they will and only they can explain Qur'an rightly perfectly 

That verse says those putliya (Urdu word of that body part mentioned in verse) are ahlulbait and on the day of judgement it will be revealed to all a who are panjetan .....explanation is long u can check in tafseers

Well I heard all this narration tafseer and this ayat last year in ashra of lectures in 10 days so that verse slipped from my mind but it was a lecture given by my favourite maulana so I remember it very nicely 

UU Guys may check it out and he verse and tafseer 

But sachi today by this I know everybody here can say proud and thankful to be shia we are at right path..

Feeling blessed to be shia if ahlulbait as truly..

Plz let me know about which chp and verse from Quran if anybody checks it out 

And m not denying u @LinkZelda I have heard imam Ali s saying that he use to see God while praying but I have heard about the sunni belief and what its based on so my and is in that context

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2 hours ago, Arad Etemad said:

Salam 

sunnis say u can never see Allah do we Belive we can see Allah and how?

I also wonder according to Islam has a human always believed that Allah exists until other humans try to say no that Allah doesn't exist?

is this order right in the religion of Shia Islam Allah, The prophet and the 12 Imams?

thanks 

shia chat has helped a lot

 

Allah(Swt) has no flesh and you cannot see a flesh-less entity, or thing, to clarify it I will use a tangible example: We can never see light, but we see whatever light shines upon, some may say we can see light and the reason is that we see it during day time, the answer is that it is not the light we are seeing it is air molecules which are being hit by the light and also it is the dust and other floating things that makes us able to see everywhere blight, the counter reason why we cannot see light is that the light exists in the space but due to the non-existence of molecules everywhere is dark, despite the presence of light.

Now why Allah(swt) is flesh-less it is because flesh limits us, and thus Allah(swt) is not limited and being limited doesn't match the definition of God, so for sure we cannot see him because he has no flesh and without flesh, no light can make him visible.

2 hours ago, Arad Etemad said:

I also wonder according to Islam has a human always believed that Allah exists until other humans try to say no that Allah doesn't exist?

I didn't get what you said exactly, but based on what I got, I will give you an answer:

In the Dua Ahd, we address Allah(swt) in this way:

O who lives before all livings, O who lives after all livings, O who lives while there's no living, O the resurrector of the deads and the killer of the livings.

2 hours ago, Arad Etemad said:

is this order right in the religion of Shia Islam Allah, The prophet and the 12 Imams?

Yes it is true but there's a slight difference that I'm working on it to be sure of it so I will not mention it here unless I become sure about it. 

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5 hours ago, Arad Etemad said:

Salam 

sunnis say u can never see Allah do we Belive we can see Allah and how?

I also wonder according to Islam has a human always believed that Allah exists until other humans try to say no that Allah doesn't exist?

is this order right in the religion of Shia Islam Allah, The prophet and the 12 Imams?

thanks 

shia chat has helped a lot

 

Contention one: Can we see Allah swt, comprehend him or limit him in our knowledge?

 

Bukhari

9.530:

The Prophet said, "You will definitely see your Lord with your own eyes."

9.531:

Allah’s Apostle came out to us on the night of the full moon and said, "You will see your Lord on the Day of Resurrection as you see this (full moon) and you will have no difficulty in seeing Him."

 

Al Kafi

H 261, Ch. 9, h 10- Graded SAHIH by Alama Majlisi

"I asked Imam abul Hassan al-Rida (a.s.), about Allah if He can be described (defined in words). The Imam (a.s.) said, "Have you not read the Quran?" I replied, "Yes, I do read the Quran." He then said, "Have you not read the words of Allah, the Most High, "No mortal eyes can see Him, but He can see all eyes. He is All-kind and All-aware." (6:103) I replied, "Yes, I have read them." The Imam (a.s.) said, "Do they know the meaning of the eyes?" I replied, "Yes, they do." The Imam (a.s.) said, "What is it?" I replied, " It means seeing with the eyes." Then the Imam said, the Awham(mentioned above) of the heart is far greater comprehensive in knowledge than eye-witnessing. It is not able to comprehend Him but He comprehends all things.

 

(One paragraph taken from the hadith) H 253, Ch. 9, h 2  Graded SAHIH by Alama Majlisi

The Imam said, "How can a person who brought such messages to all creatures and told them

that he has brought such messages from Allah and called them to Allah by His commands and said, "The eyes can not comprehend Him." (6:103) "They can not limit Him through their knowledge." (20:110) "There is nothing similar to Him." (42:11), then he would say, "I saw Him with my own eyes? I did limit Him in my knowledge and that He is similar to a man? Should you not be ashamed of yourselves? Even the atheist have not said that the Prophet first brought one thing from Allah and then announced from Him other things contrary to the first."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Contention two- Does Allah change states, or undergo change?

 

Bukhari:

"...What keeps you here when all the people have gone?' They will say, 'We parted with them (in the world) when we were in greater need of them than we are today, we heard the call of one proclaiming, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship,' and now we are waiting for our Lord.' Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, 'I am your Lord,' and they will say, 'You are not our Lord.' And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, 'Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?' They will say. 'The Shin,' and so Allah will then uncover His Shin whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation..."

 

Al Kafi

H 313, Ch. 16, h 4 – Graded Sahih by Alama Majlisi

The Imam said, "There is nothing in the universe, but that is subject to annihilation, alteration, change, decay, transition from one color to another, from one shape to another and from one quality to another.They increase, decrease and change from decrease to increase, except He, Who is the Lord of the worlds. He alone is eternal and in one state. He is the first, before every thing and the last eternally. His attributes and names do not change as they do in the case of others. A man at one time is dust, at other time flesh and blood, then turns into decaying bones and finally becomes dust. A piece of date  at one time is raw, at another time ripe, mature and then it dries up. With every change, the names and attributes also change. Allah, the Majestic, the Glorious is different from all such things."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Contention three: Does Allah swt have a form?

 

Bukhari:

"...What keeps you here when all the people have gone?' They will say, 'We parted with them (in the world) when we were in greater need of them than we are today, we heard the call of one proclaiming, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship,' and now we are waiting for our Lord.' Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, 'I am your Lord,' and they will say, 'You are not our Lord.' And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, 'Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?' They will say. 'The Shin,' and so Allah will then uncover His Shin whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation..."

 

 

Al Kafi:
Graded Muwathaq
He said: I said to Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام: I heard Hisham b. al-Hakam narrate from you that Allah has a body, supported by light, His recognition is necessary and He bestows this [knowledge] upon whom He wills from the creation. So he عليه السلام said: Glorified be He, whom no one knows how He is except Himself. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing. He cannot be limited, nor can He be felt, nor can He be moved, nor can He be comprehended [by sight, nor by] the senses, nor can He be contained in anything, nor does He have a body, nor does He have a form, nor a figure, nor a confine. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 278)

 

 

 

 

Contention : Does Allah swt move position?

 

Bukhari:

1145( Abu Hurairah)

“The Lord (Allah swt) descends every night to the lowest heaven when one-third of the night remains and says: ‘Who will call upon Me, that I may answer Him? Who will ask of Me, that I may give him? Who will seek My forgiveness, that I may forgive him?’”

 

Man Lā Yaḥḍuruh al-Faqīh, Graded sahih by alama majlisi

 ‘O son of the Messenger of Allāh, what do you say about the ḥadīth which the people narrate from the Messenger of Allāh, that he said: ‘Allāh descends in every night of Friday (i.e. Thursday night) to the earth’s heavens’’.

He said: ‘May Allāh curse (la`na) those who distort the words from its place, by Allāh, the Messenger of Allāh has not said that! Verily, he said: ‘Allāh) sends down an angel to the earth’s heavens in the last third of every night, and the first part of the night of Friday (i.e. Thursday night). And He commands him to call, ‘Are there any (who) asks, so that I can grant him?’; ‘Are there any repenters that I should forgive him?’;..."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I conclude with the following excerpt of a hadith:

 

He said: A man came to Abu’l Hasan ar-Rida عليه السلام from beyond the Balkh river and said: I will ask you a question, if your answer to me is the same as that which is with me [i will accept your cause]. So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Ask whatever you wish. So he said: Inform me about your Lord, when did He come into being? And how is His state? And upon what thing does He rely? So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Allah تبارك وتعالى was there before there was a “there”, and He was being before there was a “how”, and His reliance is upon His power. So the man rose to him and kissed his head, and said: I bear witness that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and that `Ali is the deputy of the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله and the succeeding upholder of what the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله established, and that you are the righteous Imams and the successors after them. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 233) Graded SAHIH by Alama Majlisi

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5 hours ago, Endtimes said:

Bismillah.

Salam Alaykum.

I called you a liar before and this is my proof and caught your hands in the cookie jar! Sunnis do believe that you can see Allah in heaven, according to you Sunnis, we can see Allah (astaghfurillah) in heaven, god as a long beard, he has a shin, he has hands, a face, he sits on a throne, and he will be in a human form. ITS SHIAS OF ALI IBN ABU TALIB A.S THAT SAY WE CAN NEVER SEE Allah, NEVER MEANS IN THIS WORLD AND IN THE NEXT WORLD.

Wasalam.

Sunni's do not believe he has a human form brother. Furthermore, you must distinguish the ashari's and the salafi's. What the claim is that they will see Allah, but he is nothing like us.  We must refute them based on their actual beliefs, and not distortions.

 

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bismillah.gif

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My dear brother, why do you defend the people who say that they can see God in heaven? They say themselves that God will sit in a throne, has a long white beard and has a  shin and Mohammad s.a.w is standing on his left side or right side, and their 4 Khalifas are standing somewhere..... Don't they imply that God has a human form?

ws2.png

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5 hours ago, sadafbhimani said:

Salam 

What I have been known about Allah is - Allah has no body no structure its not a kind of sheh Allah cannot be assembled anywhere is is everywhere 

Because u see if we say Allah has body then the body needs creation so there must be someone above him his creator whichwhich will somewhere I guess go in shirk context their is only one god and thatthat is Allah who has no presence body structure

So if no body how can u see Allah ???

And I know about this thing they believe because there is a verse in Quran which ssays that on the day of judgement his knees (or some other body part might be mentioned) will reveal......

SoSo they consider that Allah will be seen astaghferullah

See this is why we saysay Shiism has true Islam and right beliefs if Sunnis actually wanna know what Allah wishes us to know from Quran come to ahlulbait as they will and only they can explain Qur'an rightly perfectly 

That verse says those putliya (Urdu word of that body part mentioned in verse) are ahlulbait and on the day of judgement it will be revealed to all a who are panjetan .....explanation is long u can check in tafseers

Well I heard all this narration tafseer and this ayat last year in ashra of lectures in 10 days so that verse slipped from my mind but it was a lecture given by my favourite maulana so I remember it very nicely 

UU Guys may check it out and he verse and tafseer 

But sachi today by this I know everybody here can say proud and thankful to be shia we are at right path..

Feeling blessed to be shia if ahlulbait as truly..

Plz let me know about which chp and verse from Quran if anybody checks it out 

And m not denying u @LinkZelda I have heard imam Ali s saying that he use to see God while praying but I have heard about the sunni belief and what its based on so my and is in that context

bismillah.gif

salam1.jpg

Listen to this sister.

ws2.png

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15 hours ago, uponthesunnah said:

Contention one: Can we see Allah swt, comprehend him or limit him in our knowledge?

 

Bukhari

9.530:

The Prophet said, "You will definitely see your Lord with your own eyes."

9.531:

Allah’s Apostle came out to us on the night of the full moon and said, "You will see your Lord on the Day of Resurrection as you see this (full moon) and you will have no difficulty in seeing Him."

 

Al Kafi

H 261, Ch. 9, h 10- Graded SAHIH by Alama Majlisi

"I asked Imam abul Hassan al-Rida (a.s.), about Allah if He can be described (defined in words). The Imam (a.s.) said, "Have you not read the Quran?" I replied, "Yes, I do read the Quran." He then said, "Have you not read the words of Allah, the Most High, "No mortal eyes can see Him, but He can see all eyes. He is All-kind and All-aware." (6:103) I replied, "Yes, I have read them." The Imam (a.s.) said, "Do they know the meaning of the eyes?" I replied, "Yes, they do." The Imam (a.s.) said, "What is it?" I replied, " It means seeing with the eyes." Then the Imam said, the Awham(mentioned above) of the heart is far greater comprehensive in knowledge than eye-witnessing. It is not able to comprehend Him but He comprehends all things.

 

(One paragraph taken from the hadith) H 253, Ch. 9, h 2  Graded SAHIH by Alama Majlisi

The Imam said, "How can a person who brought such messages to all creatures and told them

that he has brought such messages from Allah and called them to Allah by His commands and said, "The eyes can not comprehend Him." (6:103) "They can not limit Him through their knowledge." (20:110) "There is nothing similar to Him." (42:11), then he would say, "I saw Him with my own eyes? I did limit Him in my knowledge and that He is similar to a man? Should you not be ashamed of yourselves? Even the atheist have not said that the Prophet first brought one thing from Allah and then announced from Him other things contrary to the first."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Contention two- Does Allah change states, or undergo change?

 

Bukhari:

"...What keeps you here when all the people have gone?' They will say, 'We parted with them (in the world) when we were in greater need of them than we are today, we heard the call of one proclaiming, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship,' and now we are waiting for our Lord.' Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, 'I am your Lord,' and they will say, 'You are not our Lord.' And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, 'Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?' They will say. 'The Shin,' and so Allah will then uncover His Shin whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation..."

 

Al Kafi

H 313, Ch. 16, h 4 – Graded Sahih by Alama Majlisi

The Imam said, "There is nothing in the universe, but that is subject to annihilation, alteration, change, decay, transition from one color to another, from one shape to another and from one quality to another.They increase, decrease and change from decrease to increase, except He, Who is the Lord of the worlds. He alone is eternal and in one state. He is the first, before every thing and the last eternally. His attributes and names do not change as they do in the case of others. A man at one time is dust, at other time flesh and blood, then turns into decaying bones and finally becomes dust. A piece of date  at one time is raw, at another time ripe, mature and then it dries up. With every change, the names and attributes also change. Allah, the Majestic, the Glorious is different from all such things."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Contention three: Does Allah swt have a form?

 

Bukhari:

"...What keeps you here when all the people have gone?' They will say, 'We parted with them (in the world) when we were in greater need of them than we are today, we heard the call of one proclaiming, 'Let every nation follow what they used to worship,' and now we are waiting for our Lord.' Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, 'I am your Lord,' and they will say, 'You are not our Lord.' And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, 'Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?' They will say. 'The Shin,' and so Allah will then uncover His Shin whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation..."

 

 

Al Kafi:
Graded Muwathaq
He said: I said to Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام: I heard Hisham b. al-Hakam narrate from you that Allah has a body, supported by light, His recognition is necessary and He bestows this [knowledge] upon whom He wills from the creation. So he عليه السلام said: Glorified be He, whom no one knows how He is except Himself. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing. He cannot be limited, nor can He be felt, nor can He be moved, nor can He be comprehended [by sight, nor by] the senses, nor can He be contained in anything, nor does He have a body, nor does He have a form, nor a figure, nor a confine. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 278)

 

 

 

 

Contention : Does Allah swt move position?

 

Bukhari:

1145( Abu Hurairah)

“The Lord (Allah swt) descends every night to the lowest heaven when one-third of the night remains and says: ‘Who will call upon Me, that I may answer Him? Who will ask of Me, that I may give him? Who will seek My forgiveness, that I may forgive him?’”

 

Man Lā Yaḥḍuruh al-Faqīh, Graded sahih by alama majlisi

 ‘O son of the Messenger of Allāh, what do you say about the ḥadīth which the people narrate from the Messenger of Allāh, that he said: ‘Allāh descends in every night of Friday (i.e. Thursday night) to the earth’s heavens’’.

He said: ‘May Allāh curse (la`na) those who distort the words from its place, by Allāh, the Messenger of Allāh has not said that! Verily, he said: ‘Allāh) sends down an angel to the earth’s heavens in the last third of every night, and the first part of the night of Friday (i.e. Thursday night). And He commands him to call, ‘Are there any (who) asks, so that I can grant him?’; ‘Are there any repenters that I should forgive him?’;..."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I conclude with the following excerpt of a hadith:

 

He said: A man came to Abu’l Hasan ar-Rida عليه السلام from beyond the Balkh river and said: I will ask you a question, if your answer to me is the same as that which is with me [i will accept your cause]. So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Ask whatever you wish. So he said: Inform me about your Lord, when did He come into being? And how is His state? And upon what thing does He rely? So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Allah تبارك وتعالى was there before there was a “there”, and He was being before there was a “how”, and His reliance is upon His power. So the man rose to him and kissed his head, and said: I bear witness that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and that `Ali is the deputy of the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله and the succeeding upholder of what the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله established, and that you are the righteous Imams and the successors after them. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 233) Graded SAHIH by Alama Majlisi

Wait Brother, Just by quoting plain ahadith would not help as long as you don't read the standard explanation of the same.

The post begin with a question 'can we see Allah and limit Him in eyes' and then two ahadith are quoted which are not about this world but the hereafter and those hadith do not talk about limiting him in eyes but seeing whatever side of His we would been see clearly without any hindrance. Like you see moon without clouds but infact you don't also see the whole moon.

“He is seen on the day of Judgment, and the visions do not encompass Him when it sees Him, for Al-Idrak is encompassment, and Ru’yah is looking, and Allah is seen and not encompassed.” Sahih Ibn Habban (d354 hijri)

If you read the famous book Aqeedah Tahawiya by Imam Tahawi (239 - d321 hijri) which contains standard aqaid of Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaat then you will understand the concept as above. For instance:

38. He is beyond having limits placed on Him, or being restricted, or having parts or limbs. Nor is He contained by the six directions as all created things are.

35. The Seeing of Allah by the People of the Garden is true, without their vision being all-encompassing and without the manner of their vision being known. As the Book of our Lord has expressed it: "Faces on that Day radiant, looking at their Lord." (al-Qiyama 75:22-3) The explanation of this is as Allah knows and wills. Everything that has come down to us about this from the Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, in authentic traditions, is as he said and means what he intended. We do not delve into that, trying to interpret it according to our own opinions or letting our imaginations have free rein. No one is safe in his religion unless he surrenders himself completely to Allah, the Exalted and Glorified and to His Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and leaves the knowledge of things that are ambiguous to the one who knows them.

37. Belief of a man in the seeing of Allah by the People of the Garden is not correct if he imagines what it is like or interprets it according to his own understanding, since the interpretation of this seeing or indeed, the meaning of any of the subtle phenomena which are in the realm of Lordship, is by avoiding its interpretation and strictly adhering to the submission. This is the religion of Muslims. Anyone who does not guard himself against negating the attributes of Allah, or likening Allah to something else, has gone astray and has failed to understand Allah's glory, because our Lord, the Glorified and the Exalted, can only possibly be described in terms of oneness and absolute singularity and no creation is in any way like Him.

 

I can assure you right here that all the text in your post in red, green, blue can be pretty much found in Shia text too. I also understand that standard Shia interpretation would be different than Sunnis. However, standard Sunni interpretation has also not been presented in the post which perhaps been taken from tawheed313.

So the post is i would say misleading, unfortunately

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Surah Al-Anaam, Verse 103:

لَّا تُدْرِكُهُ الْأَبْصَارُ وَهُوَ يُدْرِكُ الْأَبْصَارَ وَهُوَ اللَّطِيفُ الْخَبِيرُ

Vision comprehends Him not, and He comprehends (all) vision; and He is the Knower of subtleties, the Aware.

(English - Shakir)

It is clear from above that we cannot see Allah. Sunni brothers are misguided by another verse:

Surah Al-Qiyama, Verse 23:

إِلَىٰ رَبِّهَا نَاظِرَةٌ

Looking to their Lord.

(English - Shakir)

Allah cannot be seen by eyes anywhere because He does not have any body and does not occupy any place, as He is the creator of body and place. He is exalted beyond the limitations of His own creations and is far removed from being enclosed in them. We may only see the manifestations of Allah, which are but His created signs. We can never, however, see His Essence.

Now, let us probe into the verse that is used by the Sunnis as proof of seeing the Essence of Allah:

"Some faces on that day (i.e., the Day of Judgment) will be radiant, looking towards their Lord. (75:22-23)" 

According to Arabic lexicon, the word "Nadhira" that is used in the above verse does not necessarily imply "seeing". The Imams (AS) have used other verses of Quran to support the definition of the word "Nadhira" in this verse as similar to the meaning of "Muntadhira", which means expecting, waiting, or looking forward to. On the commentary of this verse, Imam Ali (AS) said: 

"... The verse means looking forward to what Allah, the Mighty and the Majestic, has promised them. And the word 'Nadhira' sometimes means 'expecting/waiting/looking forward' ('al-Muntadhira'). Haven't you heard the saying of Allah: '(But I am going to send him a present) and I am looking forward (Nadhira) to what (answer) the ambassadors will return (27:35).' This means I am waiting (al-Muntadhira) for what the ambassadors will return. As for the verse: 'For indeed he saw him at a second descent. Near the Lote-tree of the uttermost boundary (53:13-14)', it means when Muhammad (S.A.W.) was near the Lote-tree of the uttermost boundary which none of His creations has passed it (saw Gabriel). It is His saying in the followed verses: '(His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see one of the great signs of his Lord! (53:17-18)', he saw Gabriel in his shape twice. Verily Gabriel is a great creature and is from amongst the spiritual entities whose creation and shapes are not fully understood except by the Lord of the Universe."

- al-Ihtijaj, v1, p243

- Bihar al-Anwar, v90/93, p101, Hadith #1

 

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3 hours ago, Bukhari8k said:

Wait Brother, Just by quoting plain ahadith would not help as long as you don't read the standard explanation of the same.

The post begin with a question 'can we see Allah and limit Him in eyes' and then two ahadith are quoted which are not about this world but the hereafter and those hadith do not talk about limiting him in eyes but seeing whatever side of His we would been see clearly without any hindrance. Like you see moon without clouds but infact you don't also see the whole moon.

“He is seen on the day of Judgment, and the visions do not encompass Him when it sees Him, for Al-Idrak is encompassment, and Ru’yah is looking, and Allah is seen and not encompassed.” Sahih Ibn Habban (d354 hijri)

If you read the famous book Aqeedah Tahawiya by Imam Tahawi (239 - d321 hijri) which contains standard aqaid of Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaat then you will understand the concept as above. For instance:

38. He is beyond having limits placed on Him, or being restricted, or having parts or limbs. Nor is He contained by the six directions as all created things are.

35. The Seeing of Allah by the People of the Garden is true, without their vision being all-encompassing and without the manner of their vision being known. As the Book of our Lord has expressed it: "Faces on that Day radiant, looking at their Lord." (al-Qiyama 75:22-3) The explanation of this is as Allah knows and wills. Everything that has come down to us about this from the Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, in authentic traditions, is as he said and means what he intended. We do not delve into that, trying to interpret it according to our own opinions or letting our imaginations have free rein. No one is safe in his religion unless he surrenders himself completely to Allah, the Exalted and Glorified and to His Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and leaves the knowledge of things that are ambiguous to the one who knows them.

37. Belief of a man in the seeing of Allah by the People of the Garden is not correct if he imagines what it is like or interprets it according to his own understanding, since the interpretation of this seeing or indeed, the meaning of any of the subtle phenomena which are in the realm of Lordship, is by avoiding its interpretation and strictly adhering to the submission. This is the religion of Muslims. Anyone who does not guard himself against negating the attributes of Allah, or likening Allah to something else, has gone astray and has failed to understand Allah's glory, because our Lord, the Glorified and the Exalted, can only possibly be described in terms of oneness and absolute singularity and no creation is in any way like Him.

 

I can assure you right here that all the text in your post in red, green, blue can be pretty much found in Shia text too. I also understand that standard Shia interpretation would be different than Sunnis. However, standard Sunni interpretation has also not been presented in the post which perhaps been taken from tawheed313.

So the post is i would say misleading, unfortunately

Who is imam Tahawi?

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Salaam

Shia vs Sunni Ulema

Sunni believe in particularly ‘Sahih Bukhari’ about visibility of God?

Absurd reports in ‘sahihain’ (the two collections) of ‘Bukhari’ and ‘Muslim’
First, that these books are acceptable to the whole community is open to objection. Your claim with reference to Ibn Hajar is, itself, absurd since 100 million Muslims do not accept his point. Hence, the unanimity of the community in the matter is just like the unanimity claimed by your people in the matter of the caliphate. Secondly, what I say is based on valid reasons. 
If you study those books with an unprejudiced mind, you will be astonished. Many of your great ‘ulama’, such as Dar Qutni, Ibn Hazam, Allama Abu'l-Fazl Ja'far Ibn Tha'labi in ‘Kitabu'l-Imta' fi Ahkamu's-Sama'’, Sheikh Abdu'l-Qadir Ibn Muhammad Qarshi in ‘Jawahiru'l-Mazay'a fi Tabaqatu'l-Hanafiyya’, and others, including all the ‘Hanafi’ ‘ulama’, have criticized the ‘Sahihain’ and have acknowledged that they contain a number of weak and unconfirmed ‘hadith’. The objective of ‘Bukhari’ and ‘Muslim’ was to collect ‘hadith’; not to consider their authenticity. 
Some of your research scholars, like Kamalu'd-Din Ja'far Ibn Sa'lih have taken great pains in pointing out the defects, and faults of the ‘hadith’ and have set forth valid grounds in support of their findings. 
Debate - Shia v/s Sunni: http://www.al-islam.org/peshawar-nights-sultan-al-waadhim-sayyid-muhammad-al-musawi-ash-shirazi/third-session-saturday-night#belief-imams


Sunni believe in particularly ‘Sahih Bukhari’ about visibility of God?

If you wish to study misleading ‘hadith’ regarding the incarnation of Allah, which contend that He, as a physical being, can be seen in this world, or, will be seen in the Hereafter, (as believed by a faction of the ‘Sunni’s, i.e., the ‘Hanbalites’ and ‘Asharites’), you may refer to your own books, particularly ‘Sahih Bukhari’ (Vol. I, in the Chapter “Fazla's-Sujud Min Kitabu'l-Adhan”, page 100; Vol. IV, p.92 of ‘Sahih Muslim’, "Babu's-Sira Min Kitabu'r-Riqaq", and ‘Sahih Muslim’ (Vol. I, in the Chapter "Isbatu'l-Ruyatu'l-Mu'minin Rabbahum Fi'l-Akhira," page 86); and ‘Musnad’ of Imam Hanbal, Volume II, page 275. 
You will find sufficient information of this type in those books. For example, Abu Huraira says: "The clamor and violent rage of Hell will intensify, it will not calm down until Allah puts His leg in it. Then Hell will say, 'Stop, stop! 
It is enough for me; it is enough for me.'" Abu Huraira also narrates that a group of people asked the Holy Prophet, "Shall we see our Creator on the Day of Judgement?" He replied, "Of course. At mid-day when the sky is free of clouds, does the Sun hurt you, if you look at it?" 
They said: "No!" Again he said: "During the nights when you see the full moon when the sky is clear, does it hurt you?" They said: "No!" He continued: "So when you see Allah Almighty on the Day of Judgement, you will not be hurt, just as you are not hurt by seeing these (the sun and the moon). 
When the Day of Judgement comes, it will be announced by Allah that every community should follow “its god”. So, everyone who has worshiped idols, or, anything other than Allah, The One, shall be thrust into Hell fire. 
So, shall every one of the good and bad persons be thrown into it except those who worshipped Allah (S.W.T.), the Absolute One. They shall lie in Hellfire. At that time Allah will appear in a particular form before the people, so that they can see Him. Then Allah will tell them that He is their Allah. The believers will then say, 'We take refuge in Your Godhead. We are not among those who have worshiped anything except Allah the Absolute.' 
Allah will say in reply, 'Have you any sign between you and Allah so that you may see Him and identify Him?' They will say, 'Yes.' Then Allah will show them His bare leg. Thereupon the believers will raise their heads upwards and will see Him in the same condition as they saw Him for the first time. Then Allah will say that He is their Creator. All of them will acknowledge that He is their Allah."
Now, it is for you to judge whether this kind of statement is tantamount to infidelity, or, not, that Allah would physically appear before the people, and would uncover His leg! And, the strongest point in support of my argument is that Muslim Ibn Hajjaj begins a Chapter in his ‘Sahih’ about the proof of the visibility of Almighty Allah, and has quoted the fabricated reports from Abu Huraira, Zaid Ibn Aslam, Suwaid Ibn Sa'id, and others. 
And, some of the leading ‘ulama’ of your own sect like Dhahabi in ‘Mizanu'l-I'tidal’ and Suyuti in his ‘Kitabu'l-Lu'ualia'l-Masnu'a fi hadithu'l-Muzu'a’, and Sibt Ibn Jauzi in ‘Al-Muzu'a’, have proved on reasonable grounds that these narrations are fabricated. 
http://www.al-islam.org/peshawar-nights-sultan-al-waadhim-sayyid-muhammad-al-musawi-ash-shirazi/third-session-saturday-night#references-about-visibility-Allah


Holy Qur'an rejects doctrine of visibility of God
Even if there had been no proof against the hadeeth assertions, the verse of the Holy Qur'an explicitly rejects the doctrine of the visibility of Allah. Allah says: 
"Vision comprehends Him not, and He comprehends (all) vision." (6:103) 
Again, when the Prophet Moses was compelled by the Israelites to go to his place of prayer, and beseech Allah to "show Himself to him," the Holy Qur'an records the event as follows: 
" He (Moses) said: 'My Lord! Show me (Thyself), so that I may look upon Thee.' He said: 'You cannot (bear to) see me...'" (7:143) 

In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. 1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; 
2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; 
3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 
4 And there is none **like** unto Him. 
The Quran Chapter 112


Human faculties of conception, perception and learning, and attributes of volition, intuition and apprehension cannot catch sight of His Person or fathom the extent of His Might and Glory. Reason and sagacity cannot visualise Him. His Attributes cannot be fixed, limited or defined.


There is no difference between His Person and His Attributes, and His Attributes should not be differentiated or distinguished from His Person. Whoever accepts His Attributes to be other than His Person then actually forsakes the idea of Unity of God and believes in duality ( He and His Attributes). 

Such a person in fact believes Him to exist in Parts. One who holds such a faith cannot form a true concept of God, he is *IGNORANT* and will always try to believe in some *creation* of his *imagination* as his god. 

Intelligence, understanding and attainment cannot attain the depth of knowledge to study or scrutinise the Godhead. None can fully understand or explain His Being however hard he my try. There do not exist words in any language to specify or define His qualities, peculiarities, characteristics and singularities. He has not permitted human mind to grasp the Essence of His Being **YET** He has not prevented them from realising His Presence.


http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons

Things are compound elements atoms etc, made of parts. Every compound elements etc possesses shape and colour that attracts the senses. Therefore, that which is felt or known by the senses, having shape and colour, cannot be God. Your argument for disbelief is foolish, because God cannot be like any of the things perceived by the senses, nor can He be said to bear any resemblance to anything which has to undergo an ordeal of change and decay. 
For, everything is under the one and the same law-the law of transformation and decline. God, our creator cannot be perceivable by the five senses for, He is not a thing-which is compound elements etc or created. If He was visible to the eye, and perceivable to the senses, He would have resembled the things that are visible and perceivable to the senses on account of their being compound and created and in that case He would no longer have remained a creator. 

http://www.al-islam.org/tradition-myrobalan-fruit-hadith-al-halila-imam-jafar-al-sadiq/hadith


Arguments and ‘hadith’ about the invisibility of God
Well-Wisher: Respected friend, you have taken one sentence out of context. I will recite the whole text to you. This ‘hadith’ has been recorded by the great Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Yaqub Kulaini in his Usul Kafi, Volume on Tawhid, as well as Sheikh Saduq in his Book on Tawhid, Chapter "Ibtal Aqida Ruyatullah." 
Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq is quoted as saying a Jewish scholar asked the Commander of the Faithful, ‘Ali, whether he had seen Allah at the time of prayers. The Imam replied: "He cannot be seen by these physical eyes. It is the heart which sees Him through the light of the realities of conviction."
It follows from ‘Ali's reply that what he means by seeing Allah is not seeing Him with the eyes, but through the light of sincere faith. There are many other proofs based on reason, and recorded facts to substantiate our point of view. 
Moreover, apart from ‘Shi’as’ scholars, your own ‘ulama’, like Qazi Baidhawi and Jarullah Zamakhshari, have proved in their commentaries that it is impossible to see Allah. One who believes in the visibility of Allah, in this world, or, in the Hereafter, believes that He is a physical being. To believe this is infidelity. 
 

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On November 13, 2016 at 0:47 PM, Arad Etemad said:

Salam 

sunnis say u can never see Allah do we Belive we can see Allah and how?

I also wonder according to Islam has a human always believed that Allah exists until other humans try to say no that Allah doesn't exist?

is this order right in the religion of Shia Islam Allah, The prophet and the 12 Imams?

thanks 

shia chat has helped a lot

 

How is it possible to ask others what it is that you yourself believe?

"excuse me guys, I don't know what I believe, can you tell me what is in my own mind?"

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On 11/18/2016 at 5:33 PM, iCambrian said:

How is it possible to ask others what it is that you yourself believe?

"excuse me guys, I don't know what I believe, can you tell me what is in my own mind?"

There's nothing wrong with someone who wants to seek guidance.

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2 hours ago, power said:

There's nothing wrong with someone who wants to seek guidance.

If you are not knowledgeable of something, you should not be asking about it with an assumption that you are already in agreement with the people youre asking, nor should you have the mindset that they actually know more about what is in your own mind than you do.

 

Edited by iCambrian
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On November 13, 2016 at 0:47 PM, Arad Etemad said:

Salam 

sunnis say u can never see Allah do we Belive we can see Allah and how?

I also wonder according to Islam has a human always believed that Allah exists until other humans try to say no that Allah doesn't exist?

is this order right in the religion of Shia Islam Allah, The prophet and the 12 Imams?

thanks 

shia chat has helped a lot

 

Not true, Ahu'l Sunnah certainly believes they can see the الله in the hereafter. In fact the majority of Tabi'in under the camp of A'isha b. Abi Bakr were Mujassim 

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