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In the Name of God بسم الله

The Sanctity of Muharram

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2 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

Not really brother Spiritual. This debate was never about reaching a conclusion since I knew it never would.

So better quit this purposeless, endless effort. Use your energy in a more constructive work, or you dont  have any? :D

2 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

Shiaman has declared himself as the standard bearer of a crusade against me so at least he has found a purpose in life :). So lets see how he fares with that. He will have to have a far better memory then the one he has displayed so far

Shiaman is our brother, i respect him & love him. He is a good debator/ chatter, talks with reason & logic. Hope he will enjoy the humour in your words.

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Has anyone else noticed a general decline in the sanctity of Muharram? It used to be that the primary focus for most shias during Muharram and Safar was azadari. Then it became the primary focus

With the advent of the month of Muharram, my father Imam Kadhim (A.S.) would never be seen laughing; gloom and sadness would overcome him for (the first) ten days of the month; and when the tenth day

I wouldn't blame maulanas. After all, a maulana can only talk to the youth that attend his lectures. First and foremost, it starts with the parents and family. I think I posted it on ShiaChat a

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5 hours ago, Spiritual said:

So better quit this purposeless, endless effort. Use your energy in a more constructive work, or you dont  have any? :D

Shiaman is our brother, i respect him & love him. He is a good debator/ chatter, talks with reason & logic. Hope he will enjoy the humour in your words.

There was no humour in my words I was very serious. You asked if we have arrived at a conclusion. I said no and also that I hadn't expected to.

Do not always imagine that the purpose of the debate is to arrive at a conclusion. There are many purposes to a debate. I am achieving my purpose.

Admittedly I am amused by Shiaman14 launching a crusade against me but there is no humour between us.

As to good debator. We will beg to differ on that. Good debate is based on knowledge reason and a good memory. All of which he is sadly lacking. 

If he wants to debate . Learn, use logic and have integrity. These are the hallmarks of the Ahlul Bait. 

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20 hours ago, Spiritual said:

Do you people reached to any conclusion?  :confused: If this is a purposeful debate.

Salaam brother. Preserving the sanctity of Muharram is definitely a purposeful debate. Along with other debates about azadari, this too was hijacked by ATS because he would rather discuss my age and dead sheep than the actual issue.

Apart from him, I believe we are all in agreement that the sanctity of Muharram is eroding in the West. Next discussion should be what we can do to preserve it.

19 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

Not really brother Spiritual. This debate was never about reaching a conclusion since I knew it never would.

Shiaman has declared himself as the standard bearer of a crusade against me so at least he has found a purpose in life :). So lets see how he fares with that. He will have to have a far better memory then the one he has displayed so far

I have come to the conclusion that people can 'misremember' facts on here easily because no-one will go back to verify who is telling the truth.

Apart from you, the actual shias reached a conclusion that the importance of azadari and Muharram is eroding.

You are nothing but a mischief-monger. That is given. You are rude, insulting, curt with shia - given. Every topic on azadari gets hijacked by you - given. Bullying others - given. So by constantly keeping you engaged at your level, I serve 2 purposes:

1) Muharram, azadari and all things dear to us are safe from your mischief(fitna).

2) Other brothers such as @DigitalUmmah    @Spiritual     @Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) can partake on ShiaChat peacefully and add value as they do without having face your vitriol, insults and bullying.

And if the price of that is my "memory" issues then so be it. Despite all your mischief creation, that is the only thing you can say against me.

11 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

Do not always imagine that the purpose of the debate is to arrive at a conclusion. There are many purposes to a debate. I am achieving my purpose.

Your purpose was to detract a very important debate. You showed to everyone that you will go to any lengths to distract from azadari.

Mischief-mongering.

11 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

Admittedly I am amused by Shiaman14 launching a crusade against me but there is no humour between us.

It's no crusade. There is an expression that "there is a Musa for every Pharoah". I am the Musa to you ATS-Pharoah.

 

11 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

If he wants to debate . Learn, use logic and have integrity. These are the hallmarks of the Ahlul Bait. 

I am from the family of AhlulBayt. First lesson is taqwa which you are severely lacking - a true shia would know this.

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16 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

There was no humour in my words I was very serious. You asked if we have arrived at a conclusion. I said no and also that I hadn't expected to.

So do you want to set any limit for your tabligh or not? Debating on a same topic thousand times with same persons! That doesn't make sense. 

We all know your point of view very well & we respect you being our brother in faith. 

I suggest to change this "trade mark", there are lot of other issues in ummah and I hope you're fully aware of them. Discuss & participate in those issues too. 

I only see you on tatbir or tatbir related topics/ threads. Dont make it your trade mark, you're a bright person. Enlighten us with your hidden treasure of knowledge. :grin:

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5 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Apart from you, the actual shias reached a conclusion that the importance of azadari and Muharram is eroding.

Among who? Where? 

Not in the Middle East for sure. In the Western world, more majalis are being held now then ever before, with a higher proliferation in Islamic centers in history. 

I agree with your observations, but you have to realize collectively, things will feel more diluted when there's an expansion of participants beyond the small devoted group ("the actual Shias") you have a affinity for. This same logic applies to all cult movie/comic fandoms that become "mainstream". There will always be grumbles from the "original crowd" that what they held for themselves is slipping away from their control and definitions, and being inherited by the more casual. 

To put it bluntly, the more casual are not as likely to hit themselves furiously and scream through the rooftops. But clearly, the fact they are showing up at all, that Muharram plays some role in their life (as opposed to not at all) should be seen as a positive thing. 

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42 minutes ago, magma said:

Among who? Where? 

Not in the Middle East for sure. In the Western world, more majalis are being held now then ever before, with a higher proliferation in Islamic centers in history. 

See the young generation, brother. They like to play instead of attending majalis. If anyone forced to attend majlis, he instead of listening to the Zakir, prefer to do chatting on whatsapp & face book.

Do you have any idea what percentage of our youth dont know how to recite Quran? And aware of basic ahkaam of deen?

Things are getting worse, not improving at all.

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7 minutes ago, Spiritual said:

See the young generation, brother. They like to play instead of attending majalis. If anyone forced to attend majlis, he instead of listening to the Zakir, prefer to do chatting on whatsapp & face book.

Do you have any idea what percentage of our youth dont know how to recite Quran? And aware of basic ahkaam of deen?

Things are getting worse, not improving at all.

Then why are there more Islamic centers and Imambargahs today then ever before? Why would they exist if there wasn't a greater demand? 

Like I said, a larger population base can lead to dilution, which alters perceptions like yours. The percentage of youth who know Quran may be lowering due to a larger sample size, but the total amount of youth who understand Quran may be stable or rising. 

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17 minutes ago, magma said:

Then why are there more Islamic centers and Imambargahs today then ever before? Why would they exist if there wasn't a greater demand? 

This greater demand is also attesting my view point. We, the seniors, are observing where our youth is heading for, the need to give them proper direction is never so intense. May the Almighty accepts the efforts of those who are working hard to protect the youth from this menace & grants the success.

17 minutes ago, magma said:

Like I said, a larger population base can lead to dilution, which alters perceptions like yours. The percentage of youth who know Quran may be lowering due to a larger sample size, but the total amount of youth who understand Quran may be stable or rising. 

How can one understand a book he knows not how to recite? Your logic & reason is strange.

Edited by magma
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1 minute ago, Spiritual said:

This greater demand is also attesting my view point. We, the seniors, are observing where our youth is heading for, the need to give them proper direction is never so intense. May the Almighty accepts the efforts of those who are working hard to protect the youth from this menace & grants the success.

How can one understand a book he knows not how to recite? Your logic & reason is strange.

Firstly, I am part of the youth. 

Secondly, it's called basic statistics. 

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7 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

I am from the family of AhlulBayt. First lesson is taqwa which you are severely lacking - a true shia would know this.

I have no idea about your taqwa since you cannot prove it on here. Knowledge, integrity and memory you can easily demonstrate but fail to do so

But still dead sheep and all that.

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2 hours ago, magma said:

Among who? Where? 

Not in the Middle East for sure. In the Western world, more majalis are being held now then ever before, with a higher proliferation in Islamic centers in history. 

I agree with your observations, but you have to realize collectively, things will feel more diluted when there's an expansion of participants beyond the small devoted group ("the actual Shias") you have a affinity for. This same logic applies to all cult movie/comic fandoms that become "mainstream". There will always be grumbles from the "original crowd" that what they held for themselves is slipping away from their control and definitions, and being inherited by the more casual. 

To put it bluntly, the more casual are not as likely to hit themselves furiously and scream through the rooftops. But clearly, the fact they are showing up at all, that Muharram plays some role in their life (as opposed to not at all) should be seen as a positive thing. 

Did you read through the entire thread?

This is not about matam or bloodletting or any specific aspect of azadari. 

This is about azadari being reduced to 10 days of mourning or less. It is about shias taking vacation the weekend after Ashura. It is about noha reciters celebrating their grandchild's birthday with pomp and circumstance inside 40 days. This is about shias celebrating Halloween inside 40 days.

Millions and Billions of Christians attend Church every Sunday but then live a life of sin the other 6 days.

While celebrating anything in Muharram in not a sin per se, nevertheless it is reducing the sanctity and reverence of Muharram.

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1 hour ago, magma said:

Then why are there more Islamic centers and Imambargahs today then ever before? Why would they exist if there wasn't a greater demand? 

Like I said, a larger population base can lead to dilution, which alters perceptions like yours. The percentage of youth who know Quran may be lowering due to a larger sample size, but the total amount of youth who understand Quran may be stable or rising. 

I am not sure how the number of centers becomes a criteria for reverence for Muharram. That's like saying all Christians must be great practitioners of their faith because there are so many churches. Or Saudi must be the best muslims since they have a mosque on every corner.

31 minutes ago, A true Sunni said:

I have no idea about your taqwa since you cannot prove it on here. Knowledge, integrity and memory you can easily demonstrate but fail to do so

But still dead sheep and all that.

Well, apart from you I have good relations with everyone else on ShiaChat whereas quite a few have complained about you.

I am going to ignore you as long as you do not disrespect anyone on ShiaChat only because my dear brother @Spiritual asked me to.

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May be it's a cultural thing or an age thing or something else.

When we say don't do these other things but do azadari or focus on Imam Hussain's message, people say we can't be beating our chests and shouting all the time.

And when we focus on azadari, the same group comes out with do these other "equally" good things.

So instead of vacationing, give the money to an orphanage.

Instead of celebrating Halloween, organize a majlis.

Etc, etc, etc.

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On 11/2/2016 at 0:05 AM, shiaman14 said:

Has anyone else noticed a general decline in the sanctity of Muharram?

It used to be that the primary focus for most shias during Muharram and Safar was azadari. Then it became the primary focus until Arbaeen. Now it seems like that Muharram is over after the 10th of Muharram.

I have seen shias enjoying themselves on vacations, going to movie theaters and just yesterday celebrating Halloween with gusto.

Anyone else notice the same thing?

Youth get busy with school,adults with work and just life generally keeps one busy. Eventually this dilutes the strong emotions we feel at the beginning at the month, add to that the fact that we stop attending majlis at some point. I think parents should play the bigger role in keeping their children focused by constantly reminding them.

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2 minutes ago, Pearl178 said:

Youth get busy with school,adults with work and just life generally keeps one busy. Eventually this dilutes the strong emotions we feel at the beginning at the month, add to that the fact that we stop attending majlis at some point. I think parents should play the bigger role in keeping their children focused by constantly reminding them.

I get about school and busy lives -  no problem with that at all.

It's more about the other non-essentials - Halloween celebrations, vacationing, movies, etc.

May be it's me...

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7 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

 

Well, apart from you I have good relations with everyone else on ShiaChat whereas quite a few have complained about you.

I am going to ignore you as long as you do not disrespect anyone on ShiaChat only because my dear brother @Spiritual asked me to.

So you see Shiachat as a popularity contest. I don't twist and change my view point on a daily if not hourly basis in order to win friends.

If I think I am right and I am the only person left I will still not change my view. That is the way of the Ahlul Bait. That is the way of the followers of the Ahlul Bait.

Truth is a bitter pill to swallow. I see you are still choking on it

We listen we learn we use Knowledge, Aql, logic and we are honest. That is the debating style of the Ahlul Bait. 

Do not hide behind Brother Spiritual as an excuse because you lack the capacity to debate  

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20 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

So you see Shiachat as a popularity contest. I don't twist and change my view point on a daily if not hourly basis in order to win friends.

If I think I am right and I am the only person left I will still not change my view. That is the way of the Ahlul Bait. That is the way of the followers of the Ahlul Bait.

Truth is a bitter pill to swallow. I see you are still choking on it

We listen we learn we use Knowledge, Aql, logic and we are honest. That is the debating style of the Ahlul Bait. 

Do not hide behind Brother Spiritual as an excuse because you lack the capacity to debate  

Let's see - knowledge, Aql and Logic - you possess neither of these things. All you bring forth is mischief and fitna. You have not brought a single argument against bloodletting other than a fatwa that supports bloodletting that you think is irrelevant today but then argue about how someone else interprets it. Where is the logic in that!

I don't need to hide behind @Spiritual since I have dealt with and fixed plenty of mischief-mongers like you.

20 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

The sad thing is that you start a topic called the 'Sanctity of Moharram' so you recognise its special status and yet have spent close on 20 pages advocating practices that are less then 200 years old and flaunt the very sanctity that you seek to protect  

The sad thing is you want to discuss my age and dead sheep.

Hitting chains on back is just as fresh but allowed by WF so I guess WF is violating the sanctity just as much. Moreover, the concept of WF is newer than bloodletting, so we should get rid of the newest 'innovation' first if that is your argument.

No one apart from you has tried to derail this thread. It is only because you are a mischief-monger.  

Edited by shiaman14
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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Let's see - knowledge, Aql and Logic - you possess neither of these things. All you bring forth is mischief and fitna. You have not brought a single argument against bloodletting other than a fatwa that supports bloodletting that you think is irrelevant today but then argue about how someone else interprets it. Where is the logic in that!

I don't need to hide behind @Spiritual since I have dealt with and fixed plenty of mischief-mongers like you.

The sad thing is you want to discuss my age and dead sheep.

Hitting chains on back is just as fresh but allowed by WF so I guess WF is violating the sanctity just as much. Moreover, the concept of WF is newer than bloodletting, so we should get rid of the newest 'innovation' first if that is your argument.

No one apart from you has tried to derail this thread. It is only because you are a mischief-monger.  

Its a twisted world we live in.

Honesty is called fitna

Dishonesty is called 'unity'

Logic is called bullying

Diversionary tactics are debating skills

Consistency in argument is called mischief

180 degree turns back and forth is called Intelligence

Calling people to the way of the Ahlul Bayt is called WF thought

Terrifying people is called mourning

Adherence to well defined norms of language is seen as weakness

Word games and ill defined rationale is seen as being clever

Yep I can see why you were hiding behind Brother Spiritual

 

 

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4 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

1. You have not brought a single argument against bloodletting other than a fatwa that supports bloodletting that you think is irrelevant today but then argue about how someone else interprets it. Where is the logic in that!

 

2. Hitting chains on back is just as fresh but allowed by WF so I guess WF is violating the sanctity just as much. Moreover, the concept of WF is newer than bloodletting, so we should get rid of the newest 'innovation' first if that is your argument.

My respected bro s14

As we are inshallah trying to resolve some of these difficult concepts in our private chat therefore without adding too much will just put in a few corrections here.

1. The importance of this fatwa emanates from

a. Ayatullah Wahid Khorasani has spoken in length about it.

b. So many Mujtahids have endorsed it in totality. 

c. Shirazi site uses it and A4I uses it. There has to be a reason and significance of this fatwa for them to use it. 

2. Things outside the bounds of sharia remain forbidden even if done 1000 years ago, wild example..drinking (not equating just giving example for clarification). Things done within bounds of sharia even if from today are fine. wild example again...driving. Therefore time does not have a relevance in determining right from wrong. These are concepts and hence we will not argue on these.

 

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3 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

Its a twisted world we live in.

Honesty is called fitna

Dishonesty is called 'unity'

Logic is called bullying

Diversionary tactics are debating skills

Consistency in argument is called mischief

180 degree turns back and forth is called Intelligence

Calling people to the way of the Ahlul Bayt is called WF thought

Terrifying people is called mourning

Adherence to well defined norms of language is seen as weakness

Word games and ill defined rationale is seen as being clever

Yep I can see why you were hiding behind Brother Spiritual

 

 

Lol. Let's see. First you changed your aqeedah that you would not speak to me. Reneged on it almost immediately.

Then, to gain sympathy, you announced to HH that you are leaving ShiaChat soon implying it is because you are ashamed of your ancestors. Still here.

You had asked for non-acrimonious discussion. I complied. HIA broke it.
HIA asked for  non-acrimonious discussion. I complied. You broke it.
Another brother had asked for no discussion on this topic until past Ashura. I complied; you did not.
Brother Spiritual asked for non-acrimonious discussion. I complied; you didnt.

I knew you were a mischief-monger from the very first discussion we had. Isn't it cool that by keeping you engaged, I am protecting the other brothers from your fitna. It must irk you to no end.

Yeah, I am running. Running is a true sunni MO, not a Syed's.

55 minutes ago, haideriam said:

My respected bro s14

As we are inshallah trying to resolve some of these difficult concepts in our private chat therefore without adding too much will just put in a few corrections here.

1. The importance of this fatwa emanates from

a. Ayatullah Wahid Khorasani has spoken in length about it.

b. So many Mujtahids have endorsed it in totality. 

c. Shirazi site uses it and A4I uses it. There has to be a reason and significance of this fatwa for them to use it. 

2. Things outside the bounds of sharia remain forbidden even if done 1000 years ago, wild example..drinking (not equating just giving example for clarification). Things done within bounds of sharia even if from today are fine. wild example again...driving. Therefore time does not have a relevance in determining right from wrong. These are concepts and hence we will not argue on these.

If the fatwa is so important, then why do you reject bloodletting since it clearly permits bloodletting qama-style. Also, this is about the sanctity of Muharram so let's leave it on this topic.

ATS likes to derail all topics about the azadari and the AhlulBayt.

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28 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Lol. Let's see. First you changed your aqeedah that you would not speak to me. Reneged on it almost immediately.

Then, to gain sympathy, you announced to HH that you are leaving ShiaChat soon implying it is because you are ashamed of your ancestors. Still here.

You had asked for non-acrimonious discussion. I complied. HIA broke it.
HIA asked for  non-acrimonious discussion. I complied. You broke it.
Another brother had asked for no discussion on this topic until past Ashura. I complied; you did not.
Brother Spiritual asked for non-acrimonious discussion. I complied; you didnt.

I knew you were a mischief-monger from the very first discussion we had. Isn't it cool that by keeping you engaged, I am protecting the other brothers from your fitna. It must irk you to no end.

Yeah, I am running. Running is a true sunni MO, not a Syed's.

If the fatwa is so important, then why do you reject bloodletting since it clearly permits bloodletting qama-style. Also, this is about the sanctity of Muharram so let's leave it on this topic.

ATS likes to derail all topics about the azadari and the AhlulBayt.

This is about the sanctity of Moharram. Since I believe blood letting is breaking the sanctity of Moharram I feel I should make my opinion known.

As to Azadari since I do recognise blood letting as a valid form of Azadari its a moot point

Also you just agreed not to speak to me unless I attacked some poor defenceless person. I see ur promise didnt even last till the end of the day

Brother Spiritual is a brother but he is not Hujah on me. I am not obliged to comply to his wishes.

Improve your memory improve your integrity improve your knowledge and see how fast the acrimony dissapears

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2 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

If the fatwa is so important, then why do you reject bloodletting since it clearly permits bloodletting qama-style. Also, this is about the sanctity of Muharram so let's leave it on this topic.

Brother I only let you know as to why the relevance and the importance of the fatwa. The importance and the following of the fatwa are again 2 separate matters. The rest is a discussion.

This is the second time you have said the above in bold. Thanks for this agreement. Now we both understand that the fatwa only permits clearly bloodletting Qama style.(This means with the intention of bleeding, every other bleeding is incidental)

Thanks bro.

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18 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

This is about the sanctity of Moharram. Since I believe blood letting is breaking the sanctity of Moharram I feel I should make my opinion known.

As to Azadari since I do recognise blood letting as a valid form of Azadari its a moot point

Also you just agreed not to speak to me unless I attacked some poor defenceless person. I see ur promise didnt even last till the end of the day

Brother Spiritual is a brother but he is not Hujah on me. I am not obliged to comply to his wishes.

Improve your memory improve your integrity improve your knowledge and see how fast the acrimony dissapears

Your only belief is mischief-mongering.

I didn't break my word to brother @Spiritual since I promised him "as long as you do not disrespect anyone". Well, you posts indicate a continuation of rude behavior so there will be no let up for you.

Since your entire post is about "I believe bloodletting..." and "I recognize" - let me tell you what to recognize. Since my ancestors taught your ancestors about azadari, I will decide for you what you should recognize and what you shouldn't.

Otherwise, it should only be about what one's own marja 'beleives' or 'recognizes'. You do not own azadari and as such you believe nothing and recogize nothing other than what you are taught.

Your illogical theory is that you don't have to listen to @Spiritual since he is not hujjah upon you but then everyone on ShiaChat should listen to you. Are you some bigtime ayatollah. You are Notatullah! If you knew Islam, you would know that each shia has a right upon another shia but I dont expect you to know this.

You have no respect for anyone so you don't recognize anyone hujjah upon you other than your ego. I respect all brothers and listen to them. Allah knows every time a brother has asked me to ceasefire, I have and you haven't. That tells everyone that YOUR BRAND IS MISCHIEF.

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16 hours ago, haideriam said:

Brother I only let you know as to why the relevance and the importance of the fatwa. The importance and the following of the fatwa are again 2 separate matters. The rest is a discussion.

This is the second time you have said the above in bold. Thanks for this agreement. Now we both understand that the fatwa only permits clearly bloodletting Qama style.(This means with the intention of bleeding, every other bleeding is incidental)

Thanks bro.

Fantastic. I called your attention to this about a month ago when I asked if the issue is the location of bloodletting, then let's have all shias agree to do qama only and live happily ever after. Can you and I both agree to do qama next Ashura?

16 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

I should have said I do not recognise blood letting typo error

Freudian slip???

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15 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

 

Since your entire post is about "I believe bloodletting..." and "I recognize" - let me tell you what to recognize. Since my ancestors taught your ancestors about azadari, I will decide for you what you should recognize and what you shouldn't.

Probably your funniest post to date. Living of the name of the glorious Ahlul Bait. If your ancestors taught my ancestors then I am indebted to them as are all my family.

They would have taught my ancestors Love of the Ahlul Bait honesty, integrity,value of knowledge, steadfastness in the face of falsehood, fear of Allah and the DofJ.

My ancestors passed those qualities on to me . Sadly I see those qualities are not genetically linked in your case  

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19 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

If the fatwa is so important, then why do you reject bloodletting since it clearly permits bloodletting qama-style. Also, this is about the sanctity of Muharram so let's leave it on this topic.

 

17 hours ago, haideriam said:

This is the second time you have said the above in bold. Thanks for this agreement. Now we both understand that the fatwa only permits clearly bloodletting Qama style.(This means with the intention of bleeding, every other bleeding is incidental)

 

13 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Fantastic. I called your attention to this about a month ago when I asked if the issue is the location of bloodletting, then let's have all shias agree to do qama only and live happily ever after. Can you and I both agree to do qama next Ashura?

The good thing my bro from all this is that you have agreed that only in Tatbir is clear permission of blood drawing(with intention/niyya) from the head .

This by default means that all other bloodletting is incidental like when I go to do chest matam the intention is not bloodletting, but if it happens incidentally then it is fine. I cannot go with the niyya of bloodletting from my chest with my hands. 

Thanks bro, kindly keep a note of this, it will be very important to clearing our concepts in our private chat and I hope you have also made a note of Bro DU explaining Tatbir and my comments on it. Keep a note of that too.

Now with regards to your very kind request bro, it is invalid and the reason is that concepts(mainly usooli) are still not clear to you as yet. Not a worry my bro, we will inshallah get to them in due time. 

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18 minutes ago, A true Sunni said:

Probably your funniest post to date. Living of the name of the glorious Ahlul Bait. If your ancestors taught my ancestors then I am indebted to them as are all my family.

They would have taught my ancestors Love of the Ahlul Bait honesty, integrity,value of knowledge, steadfastness in the face of falsehood, fear of Allah and the DofJ.

My ancestors passed those qualities on to me . Sadly I see those qualities are not genetically linked in your case  

By teaching you honesty, integrity, value of knowledge, steadfastness - your ancestors did their duties rightly and I commend them for it. 

You learning from them and not implementing those exact traits is highly deplorable of you. If you had respect for them and the AhlulBayt, you would be a mischief-monger.

18 minutes ago, haideriam said:

The good thing my bro from all this is that you have agreed that only in Tatbir is clear permission of blood drawing(with intention/niyya) from the head .

This by default means that all other bloodletting is incidental like when I go to do chest matam the intention is not bloodletting, but if it happens incidentally then it is fine. I cannot go with the niyya of bloodletting from my chest with my hands. 

Thanks bro, kindly keep a note of this, it will be very important to clearing our concepts in our private chat and I hope you have also made a note of Bro DU explaining Tatbir and my comments on it. Keep a note of that too.

Now with regards to your very kind request bro, it is invalid and the reason is that concepts(mainly usooli) are still not clear to you as yet. Not a worry my bro, we will inshallah get to them in due time. 

Wait a minute - after agreeing that qama is perfectly legitimate, you are saying it is not permissible or not clear to you. Make up your mind. 

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11 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Wait a minute - after agreeing that qama is perfectly legitimate, you are saying it is not permissible or not clear to you. Make up your mind. 

Like I said bro s14 concepts are still not clear to you which are made clear to you again and again but looks like you keep coming back to them. No problem my bro. 
 

Where did I say the bold please bro, that is why my bro wait till concepts become clear to you and I won't even have to finish my sentence before you will know what I am talking about.

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2 minutes ago, haideriam said:

Like I said bro s14 concepts are still not clear to you which are made clear to you again and again but looks like you keep coming back to them. No problem my bro. 
 

Where did I say the bold please bro, that is why my bro wait till concepts become clear to you and I won't even have to finish my sentence before you will know what I am talking about.

Agreeing on this means you and I are of the same opinion. What is your definition of agreeing?

37 minutes ago, haideriam said:

The good thing my bro from all this is that you have agreed that only in Tatbir is clear permission of blood drawing(with intention/niyya) from the head.

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26 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

By teaching you honesty, integrity, value of knowledge, steadfastness - your ancestors did their duties rightly and I commend them for it. 

You learning from them and not implementing those exact traits is highly deplorable of you. If you had respect for them and the AhlulBayt, you would be a mischief-monger.

If indeed your ancestors did convert mine we both know neither yours or mine were blood letters.

If your ancestors converted mine then I owe them a debt of honour. My ancestors taught me to fulfill our debts of honour. Part of honouring that debt is calling you back to the practices of your ancestors 

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1 minute ago, A true Sunni said:

If indeed your ancestors did convert mine we both know neither yours or mine were blood letters.

If your ancestors converted mine then I owe them a debt of honour. My ancestors taught me to fulfill our debts of honour. Part of honouring that debt is calling you back to the practices of your ancestors 

Teaching, learning and implementing are completely different.

You may have heard things but you definitely do not implement them. Worst Student ever.

Taqwa is always the first lesson - something you severely lack. All you have taught me is that the mischief of Muawiya and Amr Al-Aas are truly alive and manifested in you.

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