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alHussein

Man brutally murdered in Iraq for selling alcohol.

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2 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

For whatever reason is was initiated, is a law banning alcohol consumption and trade something bad?

Islamically speaking: no. Best for humanity speaking: no.

Furthermore, name one government is the world that is not corrupt? I know for sure br DU will not be able to name one.

Also, I am not here to defend the Iraqi government but my guess as to why things are going slow in the "develop the country" area is because you know... war going on?

oh - Im not bothered about the alcohol ban. its haram, ayn nijasah and apparently the law was implemented legally in the parliament. I just think the hypocrisy is hysterical when its being exposed on social media. 

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9 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I just think the hypocrisy is hysterical when its being exposed on social media.

I am not entirely sure whether this is, indeed hypocrisy and even if it is, how wrong it is. These people may have grown up in a society where alcohol was ok and have gotten used to it.

Better than most they may realise that making alcohol less widely available would be good for everyone and may even help them abstain.

You, me and lots of others here have grown up with contemporary western values which say that you must not be hypocritical even if that means encouraging people do to the haram that you are engaging in.

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

Thats fine, yes I misunderstood you then. I agree of course it is wrong to just take the law into your own hands and kill someone for whatever reason. But to say that they did it now because there is a law against alcohol consumption is absurd because they are already breaking a law by killing him so why would they first wait for a law before they act if the motive is as the OP has said.

 

As I said, how is the law against alcohol affecting the minorities in a bad way? 

If we both agree that alcohol is bad, then what is bad about making it illegal?

 

 

That is good then, everyone will see then who the hypocrites are.

 

 

 

For whatever reason is was initiated, is a law banning alcohol consumption and trade something bad?

Islamically speaking: no. Best for humanity speaking: no.

Furthermore, name one government is the world that is not corrupt? I know for sure br DU will not be able to name one.

Also, I am not here to defend the Iraqi government but my guess as to why things are going slow in the "develop the country" area is because you know... war going on?

 

What I am saying are two things:

1. Be vary of the "news" about this one guy killed and the connections you start to make because you might be playing into the enemies hands.

2. Forbidding alcohol is according to what Islam has told us: Forbid evil. The majority of Iraqis are muslim, the majority of government people are muslim, therefor the law should be applicable to the majority first and foremost.

3. Whether you are muslim or not, alcohol consumption bring only bad things to humanity and is not in any way healthy. So what the heck is the problem here? Are you just as upset about countries that forbid marijuana? 

I totally agree with you alcohol is bad so is Fast food and sugar? Should It be banned? No. Can you abuse it like alcohol? Yes. It's the samething depends which kind of person you are If you don't abuse the fast food intake you won't be obese and get mental depression same thing with alcohol, you won't get abusive and hit your children,wife and won't  get a divorce.

The ban wont affect only the minority but also the tourism in Iraq, It may sound weird but western people actually visit tourist attraction such as Duhok,Erbil and Sulemaniyya. They'll class us as another Saudi Arabia country. Yes I do care what ppl think about my Country. At least they could ban drinking infront of mosques,schools,churches, etc...

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

2. Forbidding alcohol is according to what Islam has told us: Forbid evil. The majority of Iraqis are muslim, the majority of government people are muslim, therefor the law should be applicable to the majority first and foremost.

The majority of western gavornment are not muslims yet they let us practis our beautiful Islam and lets our women wear hijab, Why cannot we think like them are we any different?

Muslims who drinks alcohol has nothing to do but blaming themselves we should also think there's non muslims in the country too.

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17 hours ago, Venomous_92 said:

I totally agree with you alcohol is bad so is Fast food and sugar? Should It be banned? No. Can you abuse it like alcohol? Yes. It's the samething depends which kind of person you are If you don't abuse the fast food intake you won't be obese and get mental depression same thing with alcohol, you won't get abusive and hit your children,wife and won't  get a divorce.

The ban wont affect only the minority but also the tourism in Iraq, It may sound weird but western people actually visit tourist attraction such as Duhok,Erbil and Sulemaniyya. They'll class us as another Saudi Arabia country. Yes I do care what ppl think about my Country. At least they could ban drinking infront of mosques,schools,churches, etc...

You are comparing the consequences of drinking too much with the consequences of eating bad food?

Ok, lets take your own words:

Eat too much fast food = "be obese and get mental depression"

Drink too much = "get abusive and hit your children,wife and won't  get a divorce."

Your mind does not see a clear differential fact between these two consequences? As I said alcohol consumption in the society does not only hurt the individual drinking it but others as well.

So let me makes what seems unclear clear: Drinking = you do not only hurt yourself, but you hurt others as well. Bad eating = you hurt yourself only.

Your comparison is utterly absurd. 

 

Wait, first you said you were afraid for the minorities because of this law. I said they will not die from not drinking nor do they have an obligation to drink, nor is it healthy to drink, not for the individual nor for the society, nor spiritually, nor health wise, nor scientifically.

Now you are saying you are afraid of tourism in iraq?

So you would rather want white tourists coming to your country and drinking and everything that goes with being drunk (party and other moral downfalls). Than to have a Islamically correct society that is not only good for the muslims but non muslims as well?

What do you think is best of the iraqis?

Drunk tourists? Or less abuse, cheating, drunk drivers killing people, families split up, people loosing their jobs because of alcohol addiction not to mention Allah(SWT) being more pleased with its citizen? 

How does other countries that forbids alcohol deal with this? Is Iran suffering from lack of tourists because it has a ban on alcohol? No, and they are even doing very well with the tourism. And for your information Iran even has a law against people not being married cannot for example book hotels with the same room.

And btw "they" (white people) already see your country as an arab saudi country, because they dont know the difference of anything in middle east to begin with, so dont worry about that part, believe me.

 

17 hours ago, Venomous_92 said:

The majority of western gavornment are not muslims yet they let us practis our beautiful Islam and lets our women wear hijab, Why cannot we think like them are we any different?

Muslims who drinks alcohol has nothing to do but blaming themselves we should also think there's non muslims in the country too.

So now you are comparing the wearing of hijab to the drinking of alcohol? Truly your comparisons are absurd!

The western government lets our women wear hijab you say? Have you heard of the outfit called burkini?

Not only are they starting to ban "burkinis" but they have already banned niqab in some of these countries and now for example in France they want to ban the head scarf overall.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sarkozy-hints-he-wants-to-ban-headscarves-next-a7346766.html

 

Now another point: How does our practicing of our religion affect the non muslims in any bad way in Europe?

That we pray 5 times a day? That our women wear hijab? That we dont eat pork? That we fast?

Why the heck would they have a problem with muslims to begin with when none of the practices of muslims interfere with anyone ells there?

 

 

And, you have still not answered my previous questions:

1. What is the source of this article?

2. How do you know it is connected to the ban on alcohol? Or has anything to do with the fact that he was selling alcohol?

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

You are comparing the consequences of drinking too much with the consequences of eating bad food?

Ok, lets take your own words:

Eat too much fast food = "be obese and get mental depression"

Drink too much = "get abusive and hit your children,wife and won't  get a divorce."

Your mind does not see a clear differential fact between these two consequences? As I said alcohol consumption in the society does not only hurt the individual drinking it but others as well.

So let me makes what seems unclear clear: Drinking = you do not only hurt yourself, but you hurt others as well. Bad eating = you hurt yourself only.

Your comparison is utterly absurd. 

 

Wait, first you said you were afraid for the minorities because of this law. I said they will not die from not drinking nor do they have an obligation to drink, nor is it healthy to drink, not for the individual nor for the society, nor spiritually, nor health wise, nor scientifically.

Now you are saying you are afraid of tourism in iraq?

So you would rather want white tourists coming to your country and drinking and everything that goes with being drunk (party and other moral downfalls). Than to have a Islamically correct society that is not only good for the muslims but non muslims as well?

What do you think is best of the iraqis?

Drunk tourists? Or less abuse, cheating, drunk drivers killing people, families split up, people loosing their jobs because of alcohol addiction not to mention Allah(SWT) being more pleased with its citizen? 

How does other countries that forbids alcohol deal with this? Is Iran suffering from lack of tourists because it has a ban on alcohol? No, and they are even doing very well with the tourism. And for your information Iran even has a law against people not being married cannot for example book hotels with the same room.

And btw "they" (white people) already see your country as an arab saudi country, because they dont know the difference of anything in middle east to begin with, so dont worry about that part, believe me.

 

So now you are comparing the wearing of hijab to the drinking of alcohol? Truly your comparisons are absurd!

The western government lets our women wear hijab you say? Have you heard of the outfit called burkini?

Not only are they starting to ban "burkinis" but they have already banned niqab in some of these countries and now for example in France they want to ban the head scarf overall.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sarkozy-hints-he-wants-to-ban-headscarves-next-a7346766.html

 

Now another point: How does our practicing of our religion affect the non muslims in any bad way in Europe?

That we pray 5 times a day? That our women wear hijab? That we dont eat pork? That we fast?

Why the heck would they have a problem with muslims to begin with when none of the practices of muslims interfere with anyone ells there?

 

 

And, you have still not answered my previous questions:

1. What is the source of this article?

2. How do you know it is connected to the ban on alcohol? Or has anything to do with the fact that he was selling alcohol?

Good argument masha'Allah  Admit i lose the debate, I'm here to learn not to trigger att conflict.

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

And by the way... that picture of salahadin you have, you should study him more.

See how many shias he killed and do not believe hollywood movies too much.

Well thanks for the info.

I recently caught interest.

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7 hours ago, IbnSina said:

You are comparing the consequences of drinking too much with the consequences of eating bad food?

Ok, lets take your own words:

Eat too much fast food = "be obese and get mental depression"

Drink too much = "get abusive and hit your children,wife and won't  get a divorce."

Your mind does not see a clear differential fact between these two consequences? As I said alcohol consumption in the society does not only hurt the individual drinking it but others as well.

So let me makes what seems unclear clear: Drinking = you do not only hurt yourself, but you hurt others as well. Bad eating = you hurt yourself only.

Your comparison is utterly absurd. 

 

Wait, first you said you were afraid for the minorities because of this law. I said they will not die from not drinking nor do they have an obligation to drink, nor is it healthy to drink, not for the individual nor for the society, nor spiritually, nor health wise, nor scientifically.

Now you are saying you are afraid of tourism in iraq?

So you would rather want white tourists coming to your country and drinking and everything that goes with being drunk (party and other moral downfalls). Than to have a Islamically correct society that is not only good for the muslims but non muslims as well?

What do you think is best of the iraqis?

Drunk tourists? Or less abuse, cheating, drunk drivers killing people, families split up, people loosing their jobs because of alcohol addiction not to mention Allah(SWT) being more pleased with its citizen? 

How does other countries that forbids alcohol deal with this? Is Iran suffering from lack of tourists because it has a ban on alcohol? No, and they are even doing very well with the tourism. And for your information Iran even has a law against people not being married cannot for example book hotels with the same room.

And btw "they" (white people) already see your country as an arab saudi country, because they dont know the difference of anything in middle east to begin with, so dont worry about that part, believe me.

 

So now you are comparing the wearing of hijab to the drinking of alcohol? Truly your comparisons are absurd!

The western government lets our women wear hijab you say? Have you heard of the outfit called burkini?

Not only are they starting to ban "burkinis" but they have already banned niqab in some of these countries and now for example in France they want to ban the head scarf overall.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sarkozy-hints-he-wants-to-ban-headscarves-next-a7346766.html

 

Now another point: How does our practicing of our religion affect the non muslims in any bad way in Europe?

That we pray 5 times a day? That our women wear hijab? That we dont eat pork? That we fast?

Why the heck would they have a problem with muslims to begin with when none of the practices of muslims interfere with anyone ells there?

 

 

And, you have still not answered my previous questions:

1. What is the source of this article?

2. How do you know it is connected to the ban on alcohol? Or has anything to do with the fact that he was selling alcohol?

abcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabc

Are you saying that people who drink alcohol become abusive and get divorces because that is a ridiculous slippery slope, sure people abuse alcohol but people abuse many things, Alcohol in many countries is used in parties and to facilitate social interactions, I would say tens of millions of people drink alcohol and are not abusive, nor are they alcoholics, and nor do they divorce their wives. Also, obesity contributes to tremendous social costs in any health care system, so it really does affect a lot of people. The problem with this bill is the Iraqi parliament are trying to force religiosity on a population of more than 25 million people, sure most Iraqis are Shia, but are all shia religious shia's, in a functioning secular government people have the right to live their lives as they want, having the right to be secular or religious and  Iraq and the middle east would benefit from such a system. Also, millions of Europeans come to Egypt each year, Europeans and westerners can tell the difference between Saudi Arabia and Iraq and Egypt. And if Iraq ever found a stable peace millions of Europeans would want to visit a historic place like Iraq, with its monuments and the Euphrates. 

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18 hours ago, Venomous_92 said:

Good argument masha'Allah  Admit i lose the debate, I'm here to learn not to trigger att conflict.

InshaAllah we can all learn from each other!

Its important we are mindful, especially us who live in the west because the western values and ideology are constantly bashed into our heads, even from a young age at school they teach you that theres nothing wrong with same sex relationship, sex before marriage, masturbation, the normalization of alcohol consumption, etc, etc.

Also you have still not answered the two questions that are outside of this particular debate:

1. What is the source of this article?

2. How do you know it is connected to the ban on alcohol? Or has anything to do with the fact that he was selling alcohol?

 

@Sawa With all due respect, I have no interest in having a discussion with you regarding moral and ethics because I believe you lack basic islamic knowledge based on your previous posts about your personal life.

Edited by IbnSina

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

InshaAllah we can all learn from each other!

Its important we are mindful, especially us who live in the west because the western values and ideology are constantly bashed into our heads, even from a young age at school they teach you that theres nothing wrong with same sex relationship, sex before marriage, masturbation, the normalization of alcohol consumption, etc, etc.

Also you have still not answered the two questions that are outside of this particular debate:

1. What is the source of this article?

2. How do you know it is connected to the ban on alcohol? Or has anything to do with the fact that he was selling alcohol?

 

@Sawa With all due respect, I have no interest in having a discussion with you regarding moral and ethics because I believe you lack basic islamic knowledge based on your previous posts about your personal life.

http://www.nrttv.com/AR/Details.aspx?Jimare=32509 (arabic)

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On 2016-10-29 at 8:56 AM, alHussein said:

Ah okay I cannot read it then.

But still, logically it makes no sense to claim that it had anything to do with the new law because they are still breaking another law by murdering someone.

What are their proof for the connection that it had anything to do with the law? Or even with the fact that he sold alcohol to begin with?

Edited by IbnSina

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