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Challenge To Debate Sheikh Asrar Rashid Accepted.

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1 minute ago, uponthesunnah said:

Allahyari in paticular, as well as some of the people who have made the youtube video series. Putting aside their abuse of our own ulema, they don't observe the proper manner required when engaging in these debates and go to major extremes. 

They are also engaging with these debates in the wrong way, given the recent circus that has taken place. Nothing good can even be gained from debating this issue[ especially with Asrar], which is why many of our more respected speakers have kept away.

If Asrar Rashid is an Ashari in Aqeedah [which i think he may be but correct me wrong], then, at least in parts of the arab world as well as in Asia, and historically, that has been the dominant form of sunni Islam. Salafi'ism has grown rapidly recently, and is stronger in al-saud and some arab regions, as well as the more malaysia type-regions as well as the west , though ashari's are strong here too.

I don't disagree with you in theory, however this is such a circus at this point that they might as well get on with it.

You also have to take into consideration that there are a minority out there who's faith is affected by things like this, if they feel that there is no one out there able to defend the sect, then some might feel that it isn't the right sect. The reason that so many of the youth are attracted to speakers like Allahyari is because they are sick of the constant attacks on our madhhab and want to see it defended, which is someone that many scholars don't seem willing to do.

As for AR, he may follow an accepted school of fiqh and 'aqeeda, but never the less, there are very few Sunni who would accept that the barelvis are mainstream - you can watch their tv channels, there is a lot of weird stuff going on there.

 

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11 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

I don't disagree with you in theory, however this is such a circus at this point that they might as well get on with it.

You also have to take into consideration that there are a minority out there who's faith is affected by things like this, if they feel that there is no one out there able to defend the sect, then some might feel that it isn't the right sect. The reason that so many of the youth are attracted to speakers like Allahyari is because they are sick of the constant attacks on our madhhab and want to see it defended, which is someone that many scholars don't seem willing to do.

As for AR, he may follow an accepted school of fiqh and 'aqeeda, but never the less, there are very few Sunni who would accept that the barelvis are mainstream - you can watch their tv channels, there is a lot of weird stuff going on there.

 

I understand where you are coming from brother, but i feel this debate was sparked as a response to Sayed Ammar, rather than an attack. There are many shia beliefs we want to see defended, and many of our speakers do defend them, constantly. 

Ayatullah Kamal Hayderi is an example of how to do it properly.

But there are some, who are volatile, use abusive language, and maybe young and impressionable people like to see that drama and excitement, perhaps someone viciously fighting back, but that isn't the best long term solution.

Any idea who the shaykh who wrote the letter is? I think whatever is surrounding the debate is complex given the number of people who have responded to the challenge. Maybe i can make a better judgement then.

Ideally, especially when discussing an issue as raw and sensitive as the Sahaba, we want the most mild-mannered, respectful, academic person representing us, rather than someone volatile, who abuses, does not narrate what is reliable/clutches on conspiracy theories andso on.

I take your point on barelevi's however. Even if they are dominant in parts of asia and the UK. 

Edited by uponthesunnah

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16 hours ago, uponthesunnah said:

Any idea who the shaykh who wrote the letter is? I think whatever is surrounding the debate is complex given the number of people who have responded to the challenge. Maybe i can make a better judgement then.

If you read the letter until the end (or even the first sentence) you'd know it was Shakyh Aboo Zaynab who wrote it. He is currently completing his studies at the hawza in Najaf, and has advocated nothing but cordial discussion with Asrar Rashid, who has now exposed himself as a disingenuous man, also deleting any posts made by Shi'a calling him out on his prevaricative nature. 

This is not to any way indicate my support for Allahyari; the above letter has nothing to do with him.

Edited by Vestige

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18 minutes ago, Vestige said:

If you read the letter until the end (or even the first sentence) you'd know it was Shakyh Aboo Zaynab who wrote it. He is currently completing his studies at the hawza in Najaf, and has advocated nothing but cordial discussion with Asrar Rashid, who has now exposed himself as a disingenuous man, also deleting any posts made by Shi'a calling him out on his prevaricative nature. 

This is not to any way indicate my support for Allahyari; the above letter has nothing to do with him.

I did read the letter, and i noted it was Shaykh Aboo Zainab, but i had never heard of him before [hence asked who it was], and was wary if he was one of the unknowns who have these youtube channels, hence in enquired. I was a little dismayed at how the entire thing has turned into a circus, which is what happens in these debates, especially with Asrar - if anyone also followed his waseelah debates.

If he is moderate, cordial, knows proper ilm al rijal [which a lot of hawzah students are not taught beyond an introductory book], and will not regurgitate some arguments sunni's have long debunked, then i wish him the greatest of luck, but i do not advise a public debate on the sahabah with asrar rashid. I have watched hours of his debate and pre-debates with salafi's to know that these sorts of debates do not end well. 

Given the number of 'shia' speakers, like Allahyari and habib-types who met the challenge initially, as well as the circus that occurred due to the representative of Shaykh aboo zainab, i was not all-too impressed with everything going on.

On a side note, if he is only just finishing his studies , any idea how many years he has studied, and how old he is ?

Edited by uponthesunnah

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On 12/21/2016 at 3:21 AM, Shaykh Patience101 said:

 

 

Im assuming Ayatollah Khamanei is referring to specific people/groups in the uk, rather than all of the British shia! 

British shia have a duty to clean up our own affairs, we need to take more of an active stand against those who claim to be shia and who are tarnishing us and creating fitnah.

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It would be better if shias refarained from talking about the first three caliphs (ra ). Its also highly disrespectful to people of the tradition. Also,silly name calling like bakri,batri or whatever third world name calling you do is cheap and uncalled for. I was on the cusp on entering shiasm but after seeing how the school of shia is founded more on hate of  than love,i choose to stay back in sunni. May Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì guide us and you for a clear path that leads to worshiping him and him alone. Ameen

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On 26/11/2016 at 11:07 PM, Ali_Hussain said:

I don't disagree with you in theory, however this is such a circus at this point that they might as well get on with it.

You also have to take into consideration that there are a minority out there who's faith is affected by things like this, if they feel that there is no one out there able to defend the sect, then some might feel that it isn't the right sect. The reason that so many of the youth are attracted to speakers like Allahyari is because they are sick of the constant attacks on our madhhab and want to see it defended, which is someone that many scholars don't seem willing to do.

As for AR, he may follow an accepted school of fiqh and 'aqeeda, but never the less, there are very few Sunni who would accept that the barelvis are mainstream - you can watch their tv channels, there is a lot of weird stuff going on there.

 

I don't think you have knowledge of ahle sunnah wal Jamaah Sunnis 

200 million barelwi in the world and that's not counting the other Sufi groups, I think teachings of imam Abu hanifa ra is THE MAINSTREAM, that's IF you knew that

we sunnis follow the 4 schools and the follower of one school imam Abu hanifa is MAJORITY in Islam which includes all Sufism as well as barelwi, barelwi is a name of a place that's it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barelvi

i suggest looking at all the Muslim nations who follow imam Abu hanifa ra and you will be surprised barelwi isn't just a few, there may be slight differences but nothing major we are one ummah, it's only the few lonely wahabi influenced speakers who will call anyone not following them as SHIRK!!

i thought you knew that?

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22 hours ago, sunnilove2hussain said:

It would be better if shias refarained from talking about the first three caliphs (ra ). Its also highly disrespectful to people of the tradition. Also,silly name calling like bakri,batri or whatever third world name calling you do is cheap and uncalled for. I was on the cusp on entering shiasm but after seeing how the school of shia is founded more on hate of  than love,i choose to stay back in sunni. May Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì guide us and you for a clear path that leads to worshiping him and him alone. Ameen

 

the highlighed above is ironic considering you began cursing the shia and saying nasty words a after reading a false and biased news article 

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On 05/02/2017 at 2:01 PM, von Lohengramm said:

 

If everyone reads the desciption on this video, then they will see screen shots were provided of how asrar barked and acted big on social media. 

When it came down to the night seems he fled from those brothers completely. 

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Sheikh Ariff along with other Shia and Sunni ulama have discussed this issue in a cordial environment. This debate with Asrar Rashid seems pointless because it's probably going to be similar to the ones with Dimasqiyah. Just lots of back and forth and both side loses. But just the title Adalat of the sahabah is a non-starter. Those 2 words don't go together.

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4 hours ago, 145_turbo_16V said:

Sheikh Ariff along with other Shia and Sunni ulama have discussed this issue in a cordial environment. This debate with Asrar Rashid seems pointless because it's probably going to be similar to the ones with Dimasqiyah. Just lots of back and forth and both side loses. But just the title Adalat of the sahabah is a non-starter. Those 2 words don't go together.

If anyone actually watches the Birmingham so called productive discussions with arif Hussein - a very questionable individual who denies some fundemental tenants of Shia'ism such as Imamate - they'll see taqiyyah being used in the wrong way and opinions that contradict many of our Shia books where lanah is permissible and encouraged. Those discussions lead no where only to 'Sunni's believing that shia are more deceitful for lying to their faces about some figures they love.

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