Challenge To Debate Sheikh Asrar Rashid Accepted.

[Martyrdom]

On 10/24/2016 at 5:51 PM, Haydar Husayn said:

 

As it is however, Nakshawani has little experience of formal debates, so he is wise to avoid them. Unfortunately, any debate between Muslims is unlikely to go well anyway, because after a certain point it always seems to descend into a shouting match (usually when one side realises they are losing).

 

 

On 10/25/2016 at 9:47 AM, Haydar Husayn said:

then don't run away when you are challenged.

Make up your mind which one is it? Anyways give the guy a break he's helped thousands of people learn about Islam Muslims and Non-Muslims . How many people have you helped? You might not agree with everything he says but at least have respect for him.  

 

[Martyrdom]

8 hours ago, magma said:

 

@Haydar Husayn

There's a difference between giving a presentation to lay people vs hawza/university graduate students/other scholars. This gap exists in all fields of study. That's why "popular science" and "popular history" exist. 

One will obviously be more meticulous, source heavy, nuanced, and detailed than the other, while the other will feel amateurish, polemical, and emotive by comparison.

But not everyone can live in the academic bubble, which is how it's always been. Nor can most people with their own jobs and occupations be able to dissect material in detail like a full time researcher can. That's why academics and intellectuals exist. Because the rest of us cannot be. 

There's nothing to be ashamed of here. A lay people's presentation or debate is not inferior or second rate. You can't compare a primary school vs a university. They serve a different purpose for a different audience. It's not a fair competition, and neither should be placed to the standards of the other, but assessed relative to its own respective current. 

Today, if anything, with greater access to the internet, primary sources, translated materials, recordings, and the like, the bubble is breaking down, and more academic material is within reach of the "common man" than ever before, and popular lay reasoning has more of an academic tilt than it has ever been. Which is why speakers today seem to teeter to both sides. But this fusion is still in its infancy. That's been my feeling at least. Could be wrong.

So you might disdain that polemical discussions are being passed off or packaged as academic ones in the classical sense, but that's the trend, and I don't ring the same alarm bells. Academic institutions either embrace this process, or continue to lock themselves in ivory towers publishing things they only read amongst themselves. 

We might call this a version of the "trickle down" theory of knowledge. 

Besides, what's the alternative, not for any one individual, but people as a collective (literate, semi literate, and illiterate)? 

This post is poetry.

[Martyrdom]

On 10/25/2016 at 10:32 AM, Nader Zaveri said:

 

I believe one should not engage in debates with the opposite sect unless he has these characteristics:

1.) He must come with a sincere intention when looking at what happened in Islamic history

2.) He must know Arabic really well. Nahw, Sarf, Balaaghah

3.) He must know the Sunni hadith and their historical corpus really well. 

4.) He must know the Sunni hadith science very well and is well acquainted with the books of Jarh wa Ta`deel. And must know the rulings of scholars for a particular hadith. 

5.) He must know our Shia hadith corpus very well. (If the debater is assuming it is going to be another al-Muraja'at or Peshawar Nights, he is sadly mistaken, the Sunnis have gone on the offensive now)

6.) He must know the Shi`a Hadith science very well, and can look at the chain of a hadith and determine its authenticity on the spot (if he was not expecting that source to be taken out). This includes knowing the Rijal books, and being fully aware of the latest debates on narrators. 

 

I have not seen anyone who is a known Shi`a English or Arabic speaker who meets all these characteristics, especially, characteristics # 1, 4, 5, and 6. If these are not all met, it will be long day for whoever is debating, regardless of the subject of the debate.

 

Wallaahu A`lim

 

 

I think out of the 7 billion people on earth only 5 meet those characteristics.  

[Haydar Husayn]

51 minutes ago, Martyrdom said:

 

Make up your mind which one is it? Anyways give the guy a break he's helped thousands of people learn about Islam Muslims and Non-Muslims . How many people have you helped?

There is no contradiction here. I don't think a debate between Muslims on this issue is likely to go well, but it's not impossible. And whether or not it would go well, if you are going to go around pretending that you are ready to engage in debate, then stick to that when you are challenged.

51 minutes ago, Martyrdom said:

You might not agree with everything he says but at least have respect for him.  

The fact that he may have done some good doesn't mean that he can't be criticised.

[Martyrdom]

2 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

There is no contradiction here. I don't think a debate between Muslims on this issue is likely to go well, but it's not impossible. And whether or not it would go well, if you are going to go around pretending that you are ready to engage in debate, then stick to that when you are challenged.

The fact that he may have done some good doesn't mean that he can't be criticised.

Fair enough. He can be criticized as long it remains at the respectful level.  

[Rasul]

Update To Asrar Rashid & Omari Scholars to Debate 10/27/16
 

 

[Aabiss_Shakari]

I am against such kind of debates and argumentation. Its not the matter of who is truthful, rather mostly its matter of turning your opponent down. A kind of Nafs Parasti. Their is enough light for one who wants to see. Let the people find the truth. Its not preaching at all. Just wsstage of time and creating hatred and discord between Muslims. I disagee with this idea very strongly. 

[Don'tMakeAس]

21 hours ago, ChattingwithShias said:

Really? I haven't heard of Sunni-Shi'a physical fights or bloodshed in Western countries yet. But if the debates do cause that then they should refrain from that!

How do you propose to limit the effects of this debate to only non-violent Western Muslims?

[Rasul]

9 hours ago, Rasul said:

Update To Asrar Rashid & Omari Scholars to Debate 10/27/16
 

 

Salam. Second Response; Conditions To Debate Sheikh Asrar Rashid!!!

I now issue this second video directly to Sheikh Asrar Rashid. I now formally invite you to a series of polemical debates on those topics that separate our two Sects. I have sought to allay your previous excuses not to debate me on account of the fact that:

1) I'm not in the UK and you'll only debate me in person
2) I'll turn the sound down to tamper with the debate as it will be run through my channel.

There exists no barrier whatsoever to debating via Satellite link, in this day and age it is no different to being in the same room. You can air the debates through any channels of your choice. If you are indeed a true defender of Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Aisha as you proclaim you are then kindly come forward and debate me.

Thus far, all you've achieved through your status updates is excite your fanbase. It is now time to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

If I can clarify matters any further, please do not hesitate to contact me. Otherwise, I'll look forward to your acceptance of the debates in due course.

Now all that's left is for us to agree the conditions of the debate on the uprightness of the Sheikhayn (Abu Bakr, Umar, A'isha ) and all other companions who deviated from the path of Allah (swt). I'll look forward to hearing from you in due course.

Ahlbaittv@gmail.com

[goldenhawk]

@Rasul Salam brother. Can you please keep us updated with all the latest updates regarding this Shia scholar's challenge to asrar rashid. Jazak Allah. 

[Rasul]

4 hours ago, goldenhawk said:

@Rasul Salam brother. Can you please keep us updated with all the latest updates regarding this Shia scholar's challenge to asrar rashid. Jazak Allah. 

Wa Aleykuma Salam, brother. I will do that, insh'Allah.

[DigitalUmmah]

5 hours ago, Rasul said:

Salam. Second Response; Conditions To Debate Sheikh Asrar Rashid!!!

I now issue this second video directly to Sheikh Asrar Rashid. I now formally invite you to a series of polemical debates on those topics that separate our two Sects. I have sought to allay your previous excuses not to debate me on account of the fact that:

1) I'm not in the UK and you'll only debate me in person
2) I'll turn the sound down to tamper with the debate as it will be run through my channel.

There exists no barrier whatsoever to debating via Satellite link, in this day and age it is no different to being in the same room. You can air the debates through any channels of your choice. If you are indeed a true defender of Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Aisha as you proclaim you are then kindly come forward and debate me.

Thus far, all you've achieved through your status updates is excite your fanbase. It is now time to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

If I can clarify matters any further, please do not hesitate to contact me. Otherwise, I'll look forward to your acceptance of the debates in due course.

Now all that's left is for us to agree the conditions of the debate on the uprightness of the Sheikhayn (Abu Bakr, Umar, A'isha ) and all other companions who deviated from the path of Allah (swt). I'll look forward to hearing from you in due course.

Ahlbaittv@gmail.com

apparently, the bakri has moved the goal posts again (suprise suprise) 

these people are like slippery eels. I get the feeling that 

(1) this debate will never happen between allahyari
(2) the bakri will somehow spin this that he "won" the debate because no shia scholar dared to debate him

[MohammadAli1993]

I'm very sorry but Ammar Nakshawani said himself that if you wanna Debate me then i won't conceal my faith . It's in the Lecture called Shia Sunni Marriages Muharram 2016 

Staying silent on this matter is not wise whatsoever 

At least he could do a video or a reply 

If you are comparing his science to Imam Ali a.s then that's foolish. We have been told why Imam Ali a.s was silent but Ammar has shown no reaction (Yet)

[ServantOfTheOne]

I don't believe that Sayed Ammar Nakshawani owes anyone of us or the Sunni community anything.

He is a speaker. And even if he said "Debate me", it does not automatically mean he will accept any Tom, Richard and Harry who says "Yalla let's debate". Maybe he has personal preferences for the type of person he wishes to debate with. Maybe he sees Asrar as not worthy of debating because let's get one thing straight, it will just be a point scoring match if it does happen. And maybe he doesn't want to give a video reply because he does not even want to entertain the idea or offend anyone with the reason he declines to debate.

If he posts a video or a message for declining to debate, one of 2 outcomes will occur:

1 - The Shia community will be disappointed with a firm "I do not wish to debate". Another side of the Shia community will therefore call him a hypocrite for saying one thing and then saying another.

2 - If he says "I do not wish to debate, for 'bla bla bla' reasons", he might end up looking as though he is doing a personal attack on Asrar's character.

The only choice left is to remain silent. Maybe the idea of a debate in Ammar's head is different to what Asrar's idea. I do not have the right to judge Ammar Nakshawani and I am honestly saddened to see that so many people are disappointed in him.

[DigitalUmmah]

42 minutes ago, ServantOfTheOne said:

The only choice left is to remain silent. Maybe the idea of a debate in Ammar's head is different to what Asrar's idea. I do not have the right to judge Ammar Nakshawani and I am honestly saddened to see that so many people are disappointed in him.

I would agree with you 100%, had sayed ammar nakshawani not actually issued a challenge himself!!! 

 

[ServantOfTheOne]

I believe that I should still have a choice on whether I want to proceed or not. However, you seem to think that anyone who wishes to debate must debate with ANYONE who replies. So people are stuck with 2 choices: a) debate anyone regardless of any personal preferences or consequences or b) remain silent and deprived of showing your willingness to debate.

I do not believe in that concept.

[Reza]

23 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I would agree with you 100%, had sayed ammar nakshawani not actually issued a challenge himself!!! 

 

I thought we established he didn't issue any specific challenge, but giving a rhetorical statement instead. 

[DigitalUmmah]

Just now, magma said:

I thought we established he didn't issue any specific challenge, but giving a rhetorical statement instead. 

Here:

11 hours ago, MohammadAli1993 said:

I'm very sorry but Ammar Nakshawani said himself that if you wanna Debate me then i won't conceal my faith . It's in the Lecture called Shia Sunni Marriages Muharram 2016 

 

[Reza]

1 hour ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Here:

Yes, that clip was a rhetorical statement basically saying Shia (the collective) should speak confidently and authoritatively in the worldwide "open debate".

[ServantOfTheOne]

17 minutes ago, magma said:

Yes, that clip was a rhetorical statement basically saying Shia (the collective) should speak confidently and authoritatively in the worldwide "open debate".

Actually, upon reading it again, it does sound like a statement which affirms to us what is his level confidence rather than a "Come at me Bro!" scenario.

[notme]

2 hours ago, magma said:

I thought we established he didn't issue any specific challenge, but giving a rhetorical statement instead. 

If that is the case he should choose his words more carefully. 

Sayyid Ammar is a very good speaker, but he's no scholar, no more than a high school science teacher is a scientist. 

I'm sure he should choose his words more carefully. Now look what he's gotten himself into. 

[DigitalUmmah]

3 minutes ago, notme said:

If that is the case he should choose his words more carefully. 

Sayyid Ammar is a very good speaker, but he's no scholar, no more than a high school science teacher is a scientist. 

I'm sure he should choose his words more carefully. Now look what he's gotten himself into. 

yeah, the bakri are going absolutely WILD of facebook and other social media. the lack of any shia response apart from allahyari has got them going crazy

 

58 minutes ago, magma said:

Yes, that clip was a rhetorical statement basically saying Shia (the collective) should speak confidently and authoritatively in the worldwide "open debate".

can we at least agree that him saying such a thing was a giant mistake? considering how the bakri took it, and how he responded?

[ServantOfTheOne]

10 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

can we at least agree that him saying such a thing was a giant mistake? considering how the bakri took it, and how he responded?

I agree that it definitely looks bad and you're right, in hind sight, it probably is not a good idea to go ahead and state it like that. It would have been better if he said something like "I am not worried about people knowing I am Shia and they are more than welcome to ask me questions."

The word "debate" is a catch word on which the layman population clearly picked up. There are people in my town practically jumping up and down like a boxing match audience since Asrar first made his announcement. The whole thing is becoming a farce. It's a "my dad has a better car than your dad" scenario all over the place.

[DigitalUmmah]

1 minute ago, ServantOfTheOne said:

I agree that it definitely looks bad and you're right, in hind sight, it probably is not a good idea to go ahead and state it like that. It would have been better if he said something like "I am not worried about people knowing I am Shia and they are more than welcome to ask me questions."

The word "debate" is a catch word on which the layman population clearly picked up. There are people in my town practically jumping up and down like a boxing match audience since Asrar first made his announcement. The whole thing is becoming a farce. It's a "my dad has a better car than your dad" scenario all over the place.

Allah will never disgrace his shia in front of the likes of these. Just sayin.

[ServantOfTheOne]

31 minutes ago, notme said:

Sayyid Ammar is a very good speaker, but he's no scholar, no more than a high school science teacher is a scientist. 

 

I strongly disagree. You cannot equate Syed Ammar's achievements to the average high school scientist. You have basically condensed all his knowledge, travel experience, charity work, public speeches, TV appearances and authorship into a high school syllabus, Not fair at all!

[Pearl178]

On 10/25/2016 at 8:15 PM, zainabamy said:

When is the debate going to be held?

I am hoping for it not to be held. Such types of debates do nothing but give room to offensive and harmful views and is nothing but a leeway for those seeking publicity. It is useless and may end up giving credence to issues that would otherwise not be in the spotlight.

As for Sayed Ammar's statement, whether rhetorical or not, it should not have been said. Full stop. If I or any one of us were to put ourselves in the opponents shoes, we would have surely challenged the statement as well without paying heed or analysing the seriousness of the statement. So it is only fair to expect the same reaction.

[notme]

Just now, ServantOfTheOne said:

I strongly disagree. You cannot equate Syed Ammar's achievements to the average high school scientist. You have basically condensed all his knowledge, travel experience, charity work, public speeches, TV appearances and authorship into a high school syllabus, Not fair at all!

He speaks to the layman. As I said, he's very good at what he does. Just as good high school science teachers are important to get kids interested in learning more, so are good religious lecturers important to get laymen interested in seeking more knowledge. There is not an ounce of disrespect in the comparison. He's very good at what he does, but his level of scholarship, though more that most of us, does not compare to our religious scholars.

[ServantOfTheOne]

8 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Allah will never disgrace his shia in front of the likes of these. Just sayin.

Inshallah. We all need to observe sabr because regardless what happens, it is not gonna be a good result.

Knowing the crowds that I am aware of, I fear for people who are going to public places where it is being planned and televised like some national sport. It could easily end in a brawl no matter who "wins" or "loses". It could become start something negative for the youth of this generation in the UK.

[ServantOfTheOne]

7 minutes ago, notme said:

He's very good at what he does, but his level of scholarship, though more that most of us, does not compare to our religious scholars.

I agree with you here. I have watched some delicate Rijal and Hadith analysis on Youtube and in that sense, Syed Ammar is not one who has the mental flexibility to access as many book crevices as the big scholars.

[ChattingwithShias]

In that Radical Islam lecture Nakshawani says that Malik refused to pay zakat or recognize Abu Bakr due to loyalty to Imam Ali, but the sources I have read all say he made a pact with a false prophet Sajjah, although all the sources do say people were outraged when he was killed, even the Companions.

[DigitalUmmah]

42 minutes ago, ChattingwithShias said:

In that Radical Islam lecture Nakshawani says that Malik refused to pay zakat or recognize Abu Bakr due to loyalty to Imam Ali, but the sources I have read all say he made a pact with a false prophet Sajjah, although all the sources do say people were outraged when he was killed, even the Companions.

are these shia sources, and how reliable are they?

secondly, when asked to punish khalid bin paleet, why did abu bakr say "how can i punish him when Allah blessed his sword" instead of "yo the guy was a murtad, cool your jets"

[Rasul]

Salam.

The Third Response; The Way Forward...

Whilst we are pleased that Sheikh Asrar Rashid has confirmed his willingness to have a debate with Sheikh Allahyari, we are appalled by his slur that the UK based Shias have no one to debate him from there. We would like to remind Sheikh Asrar Rashid and his adherents that it is still a period of grief for Shia Muslims who commemorate the tragedy Karbala through a 40 day mourning period, that spans from Muharrum into Safar. Thus, many scholars and general the Shia public are busy either delivering lectures or attending them.

Alhamduilliah the UK has many Shia scholars residing therein and we are hopeful that someone will heed Sheikh Ansar's call to a debate and meet with him on the 5th of November to agree the conditions of the said debate.

Whilst Allahyari is present and willing for a satellite debate, we do agree with Sheikh Asrar that a live face to face debate in the UK would be more beneficial.

In these circumstances we would ask that whilst the debate with Allahyari has been agreed in principle, priority should be given to those based in the UK to debate first.

As such, we would request that Sheikh Asrar affords us the opportunity to approach UK based Shia Ulema to ascertain their willingness to debate him and allow them to come forward on the day.

In these circumstances we would ask that Sheikh Asrar sets up the time and venue for the 5th November as intended. We will Inshallah during this time engage our scholars and invite then to respond to Sheikh Asrar's call.

If by then the U.K based Shia community does not respond to this challenge, we will be willing to facilitate the series of debates proposed by Allahyari and arrange a time and day to discuss the conditions of the debate, that will of course be after the 5th of November 2016.

 

 

[DigitalUmmah]

5 minutes ago, Rasul said:

i, we are appalled by his slur that the UK based Shias have no one to debate him from there.

lol

[von Lohengramm]

3 hours ago, ChattingwithShias said:

In that Radical Islam lecture Nakshawani says that Malik refused to pay zakat or recognize Abu Bakr due to loyalty to Imam Ali, but the sources I have read all say he made a pact with a false prophet Sajjah, although all the sources do say people were outraged when he was killed, even the Companions.

There are actually three conflicting accounts regarding his death. The one you mentioned is almost certainly false and can be disregarded due to Sayf ibn 'Umar, whose reports have traditionally been viewed as spurious, or at least suspect, narrating the tradition. 

[MohammadAli1993]

8 hours ago, ServantOfTheOne said:

I don't believe that Sayed Ammar Nakshawani owes anyone of us or the Sunni community anything.

He is a speaker. And even if he said "Debate me", it does not automatically mean he will accept any Tom, Richard and Harry who says "Yalla let's debate". Maybe he has personal preferences for the type of person he wishes to debate with. Maybe he sees Asrar as not worthy of debating because let's get one thing straight, it will just be a point scoring match if it does happen. And maybe he doesn't want to give a video reply because he does not even want to entertain the idea or offend anyone with the reason he declines to debate.

If he posts a video or a message for declining to debate, one of 2 outcomes will occur:

1 - The Shia community will be disappointed with a firm "I do not wish to debate". Another side of the Shia community will therefore call him a hypocrite for saying one thing and then saying another.

2 - If he says "I do not wish to debate, for 'bla bla bla' reasons", he might end up looking as though he is doing a personal attack on Asrar's character.

The only choice left is to remain silent. Maybe the idea of a debate in Ammar's head is different to what Asrar's idea. I do not have the right to judge Ammar Nakshawani and I am honestly saddened to see that so many people are disappointed in him.

Asrar Rashid is not a Tom Richard and Harry

He is always ready to challenge those who speak falsehood. (According to their Belief) 

Asrar Rashid vs AbdurRahmanHassan about Istigatha

You should watch on YouTube because you will see the level of debate between those two men. 

So NO

Asrar Rashid is noRandomer but Knowledgable and He has Guts for challenging all Shia Scholars 

He is very confident. 

If he doesn't wish to debate then he can at least give a logical reason to why he doesn't and if he thinks he won't be able to debate then I think it's best to stay silent