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I personally think that there is little correlation between modesty in women and their outward appearance.

 

A personal example is that in my old workplace, the environment was a bit conservative. I would get criticized by the female co-workers for not wearing the abaya (the loose black dress). I wear hijab, but with pants and top usually because I find abayas really inconvenient when at work. Because of this, they assumed I was too 'modern' and 'open minded' and not very modest. However, my general conduct  despite the way I dressed was extremely conservative and professional and conversations with the males wouldn't go beyond "Salam Alaikum" unless there was work to be discussed, unlike most females there who , would be covered from head to toe but would sit and laugh and interact unnecessarily with the male co-workers. 

 

When discussing the issue of modesty in women, when is it fair to catergorize certain women as modest? Can a woman be modest yet not adhere fully to the islamic rules of dressing?

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I think its wrong to say that a woman is immodest if she doesn't wear hijab and abaya. I have Christian friends who I consider really modest because they never wear things like low cut tops and short skirts. There's different levels of modesty.

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30 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Whats stopping a women from being modest AND adhere fully to the islamic rules of dressing?

Why chose when you can have both and both are good to have?

Yes, undoubtedly both are good to have. But this is besides the point. I think it is unfair to pontificate on the modesty of a woman due to the way she dresses when her conduct clearly depicts a refined and conservative comportment. 

Edited by Pearl178

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Modesty for both men and women is not single dimension.

For outer world, it involves what we wear, how we conduct, what we talk, how we talk, who we talk with, how we see, how we look, who we look, and what do we do when someone looks at us and we notice.

It also involves how we walk, what colors we wear, and how much peripheral items of necessitates or luxuries we wear (cell phone, watches, jewelry, makeup, glasses, rings, and cars).

Including myself, many of us can easily easily discern if one is modest with or without an abaya they way she carries herself. Among women its different since they more likely judge each other differently. 

Edited by Irfani313

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2 hours ago, Pearl178 said:

I personally think that there is little correlation between modesty in women and their outward appearance.

 

A personal example is that in my old workplace, the environment was a bit conservative. I would get criticized by the female co-workers for not wearing the abaya (the loose black dress). I wear hijab, but with pants and top usually because I find abayas really inconvenient when at work. Because of this, they assumed I was too 'modern' and 'open minded' and not very modest. However, my general conduct  despite the way I dressed was extremely conservative and professional and conversations with the males wouldn't go beyond "Salam Alaikum" unless there was work to be discussed, unlike most females there who , would be covered from head to toe but would sit and laugh and interact unnecessarily with the male co-workers. 

 

When discussing the issue of modesty in women, when is it fair to catergorize certain women as modest? Can a woman be modest yet not adhere fully to the islamic rules of dressing?

You're so right siss. I also hold the opinion that outer appearance is a very small faction of a woman's (or man's) modesty. I know quite a few modest women (outwardly modest - hijab, long skirts etc) who are more interested in talking to males more than females and take them as friends really easily, texts them etc., and it used to confuse me a lot. In my head, growing up I thought that if you're outwardly modest, you're totally modest in general. I hate to talk like this about the few women but, it is true. It proves perfectly that modesty is many things, and not just confined to the headscarf or loose clothing, for example. Modesty is in your speech, modesty is the way you look at another person of the opposite gender, and it's how you present yourself to them (body language). Both men and women are not safe from each other if all they do is guard their outer modesty. There's so much more to it yakno

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@Pearl178 @MaryamAfghan

Sisters, just because you know other females that wear more modest clothing and their actions are not so modest, or simply don't fully adhere to Islamic principles, doesn't mean that outward appearance is undermined or not important.

Modesty is a beautiful Gift that Allah swt gave us and it is a whole package. We can't pick and choose inward or outward modesty. 

We all know females that display either inward or outward modesty, but Islam calls us to display both and yes both are important and intrinsically related. What happens is that when we diminish one over the other, its like we open a door to shaytan to whisper more and more to the point where we start diminishing more important things. 

Of course with this being said, abaya isnt mandatory but definetely no clothes where the shape of our body can be outlined thats why abaya seems to be the easiest in my opinion, but there are other options available if you dont find them convenient :)

Edited by StarryNight

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4 hours ago, StarryNight said:

@Pearl178 @MaryamAfghan

Sisters, just because you know other females that wear more modest clothing and their actions are not so modest, or simply don't fully adhere to Islamic principles, doesn't mean that outward appearance is undermined or not important.

Modesty is a beautiful Gift that Allah swt gave us and it is a whole package. We can't pick and choose inward or outward modesty.

definitely ma gurl, although outer appearance is 1 of the many factors that determine a person's modesty, it is not dismissed as unimportant. he gave us the whole package, so we gotta try our best to be the whole thing.

 

dont know if that last sentence made any sense, wow rly bad wording, srry it sounds right in my head lol

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On 2016-10-19 at 9:49 PM, Pearl178 said:

Yes, undoubtedly both are good to have. But this is besides the point. I think it is unfair to pontificate on the modesty of a woman due to the way she dresses when her conduct clearly depicts a refined and conservative comportment. 

I do not believe its besides the point?.

You see, this reasoning and this argument that you are bringing is the source of the justification that the women use to excuse themselves from not only wearing "less" hijab but even no hijab. Since its in their minds all about how you behave and not the way you look. Especially if your living in a really bad society where women are almost naked, then wearing "normal" western clothes is still considered well dressed, so why not wear what is relatively more and then concentrate on ones behavior? 

Is this logically valid reasoning? No. Is it excuse finding logic? Yes.

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On 10/21/2016 at 3:51 PM, StarryNight said:

@Pearl178 @MaryamAfghan

Sisters, just because you know other females that wear more modest clothing and their actions are not so modest, or simply don't fully adhere to Islamic principles, doesn't mean that outward appearance is undermined or not important.

Modesty is a beautiful Gift that Allah swt gave us and it is a whole package. We can't pick and choose inward or outward modesty. 

We all know females that display either inward or outward modesty, but Islam calls us to display both and yes both are important and intrinsically related. What happens is that when we diminish one over the other, its like we open a door to shaytan to whisper more and more to the point where we start diminishing more important things. 

Of course with this being said, abaya isnt mandatory but definetely no clothes where the shape of our body can be outlined thats why abaya seems to be the easiest in my opinion, but there are other options available if you dont find them convenient :)


So full of Baseerah! Masha Allah :grin:

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