Video: Nasrallah slams 'shameful' Ashura rituals

[hezbul-ghaaleb]

Video translation by Middle East Observer:

In a recent televised speech, Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah slammed the 'shameful' and 'insulting' rituals carried out by some Shias on the Day of Ashura, done in the name of mourning for Imam Husayn ibn Ali and the tragedy of Karbala.
 

Nasrallah also questioned the insistence of some Shias on bloodletting rituals such as "tatbir", while these same people 'are no where to be seen when Islam, Muslims, and Islamic sanctities are in danger'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnNO7vZBhmU&feature=youtu.be

[A true Sunni]

18 minutes ago, hezbul-ghaaleb said:

Video translation by Middle East Observer:

In a recent televised speech, Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah slammed the 'shameful' and 'insulting' rituals carried out by some Shias on the Day of Ashura, done in the name of mourning for Imam Husayn ibn Ali and the tragedy of Karbala.
 

Nasrallah also questioned the insistence of some Shias on bloodletting rituals such as "tatbir", while these same people 'are no where to be seen when Islam, Muslims, and Islamic sanctities are in danger'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnNO7vZBhmU&feature=youtu.be

So many times people have come on here claiming that Hezbullah do Tatbir, Hezbullah do these practices.

Seems pretty clear what Syed Hassan Nasrullahs position is on this. If anybody knows who is defending the holy sites he would.

As if it really needed saying HEZBULLAH DOES NOT SUPPORT TATBIR or any of these dubious practices mentioned 

[Ali_Hussain]

He is kind of preaching to the choir here, the people who act like dogs and such, follow the Shirazi family, so when they hear him speaking against it, they are more likely to do it, they may even pretend to be poodles this year to really rile him.

* Also, I think that that lion was meant to be a lion mourning over the tragedy of Karbala.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Ali_Hussain

[Ali_Hussain]

9 minutes ago, A true Sunni said:

So many times people have come on here claiming that Hezbullah do Tatbir, Hezbullah do these practices.

Seems pretty clear what Syed Hassan Nasrullahs position is on this. If anybody knows who is defending the holy sites he would.

As if it really needed saying HEZBULLAH DOES NOT SUPPORT TATBIR or any of these dubious practices mentioned 

I've heard from a couple of Lebanese scholars that when the Israelis arrived in Lebanon, they came around 'Ashura time and saw the Lebenese performing tatbir, and they out of fear they retreated.

Mind you, it seems that even women in Lebanon partake:

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Ali_Hussain

[Abu_Rumaysah]

54 minutes ago, hezbul-ghaaleb said:

Video translation by Middle East Observer:

In a recent televised speech, Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah slammed the 'shameful' and 'insulting' rituals carried out by some Shias on the Day of Ashura, done in the name of mourning for Imam Husayn ibn Ali and the tragedy of Karbala.
 

Nasrallah also questioned the insistence of some Shias on bloodletting rituals such as "tatbir", while these same people 'are no where to be seen when Islam, Muslims, and Islamic sanctities are in danger'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnNO7vZBhmU&feature=youtu.be

With all do respect. Nasrallah isn't a scholar.

Muhammad Sadiq Al-Husayni ar-Ruhanee in his book “Ajwibatul Masail al-Itiqadiyah” p 43 said:

 

Translation:

Tatbir in the time of remembrance of Imam al-Husayn (upon him salat of Allah) is a great symbol! AND IN LAST CENTURY THERE WAS NO SCHOLAR OF FIQH THAT SEEN THIS ACT LIKE ANYTHING APART FROM GOOD DEED.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Abu_Rumaysah

[Martyrdom]

50 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

I've heard from a couple of Lebanese scholars that when the Israelis arrived in Lebanon, they came around 'Ashura time and saw the Lebenese performing tatbir, and they out of fear they retreated.

Mind you, it seems that even women in Lebanon partake:

 

Exactly Lebanese not Hizballah. There are Lebanese in nabitiye that do this and HIzballah have condemned them on many occasions. If you notice in the speech the Sayyed said we have been trying in the past through discussion and dialogue but enough is enough.  This is why he mentioned this for the first time in his speech.  Things are getting out of hand.  

[Martyrdom]

26 minutes ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

With all do respect. Nasrallah isn't a scholar.

Muhammad Sadiq Al-Husayni ar-Ruhanee in his book “Ajwibatul Masail al-Itiqadiyah” p 43 said:

 

Translation:

Tatbir in the time of remembrance of Imam al-Husayn (upon him salat of Allah) is a great symbol! AND IN LAST CENTURY THERE WAS NO SCHOLAR OF FIQH THAT SEEN THIS ACT LIKE ANYTHING APART FROM GOOD DEED.

 

 

With all due respect I will take the Sayyids word over that person any day. So will millions and millions of Shia.

[Martyrdom]

1 hour ago, Ali_Hussain said:

 

* Also, I think that that lion was meant to be a lion mourning over the tragedy of Karbala.

ahhhh no.  

[Haydar Husayn]

1 hour ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

With all do respect. Nasrallah isn't a scholar.

With all due respect, this isn't the proper subforum for you to be engaging in your polemics, and I'm sure if you spend a little bit of time thinking you'll realise why what you posted is sort of pointless.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Haydar Husayn

[Aabiss_Shakari]

1 hour ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

With all do respect. Nasrallah isn't a scholar.

Muhammad Sadiq Al-Husayni ar-Ruhanee in his book “Ajwibatul Masail al-Itiqadiyah” p 43 said:

 

Translation:

Tatbir in the time of remembrance of Imam al-Husayn (upon him salat of Allah) is a great symbol! AND IN LAST CENTURY THERE WAS NO SCHOLAR OF FIQH THAT SEEN THIS ACT LIKE ANYTHING APART FROM GOOD DEED.

 

 

1. Why you again and again quote Ayatullah Shirazi only leaving all other Ayatullahs not supporting Tatbir? 

2. What you have to do with fatwas of scholars on Tatbir when you are not Shia even? 

3. Show cause why this attempt of your can not be considered a mischief fitna on your part? 

4. Why you are so interested that Shia do tatbir leaving the spiritual/practical/political/islamic aspects of Azadari. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Aabiss_Shakari

[Haydar Husayn]

1 hour ago, Ali_Hussain said:

* Also, I think that that lion was meant to be a lion mourning over the tragedy of Karbala.

It would still be stupid nonetheless.

[Abu_Rumaysah]

8 minutes ago, Aabiss_Shakari said:

1. Why you again and again quote Ayatullah Shirazi only leaving all other Ayatullahs not supporting Tatbir? 

2. What you have to do with fatwas of scholars on Tatbir when you are not Shia even? 

3. Show cause why this attempt of your can not be considered a mischief fitna on your part? 

4. Why you are so interested that Shia do tatbir leaving the spiritual/practical/political/islamic aspects of Azadari. 

as salam alaykum.

1) That was not Shirazi. I quoted Ruhani. 

2) As a sunni, I can participate only in shia/sunni forum? I didn't know this rule.

3) When I am quoting contemporary shia scholar, which basically reports ijma on issue, that is fitna from my side? Man you have some serious problems in communication. 

4) Practical aspect of Azadari. Islamic aspects of Azadari. Sounds interesting. 

 

9 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

With all due respect, this isn't the proper subforum for you to be engaging in your polemics, and I'm sure if you spend a little bit of time thinking you'll realise why what you posted is sort of pointless.

as salam alaykum, why brother? Why posting fatwa of contemporary shia scholar is pointless? 

[A true Sunni]

21 minutes ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

as salam alaykum.

1) That was not Shirazi. I quoted Ruhani. 

2) As a sunni, I can participate only in shia/sunni forum? I didn't know this rule.

3) When I am quoting contemporary shia scholar, which basically reports ijma on issue, that is fitna from my side? Man you have some serious problems in communication. 

4) Practical aspect of Azadari. Islamic aspects of Azadari. Sounds interesting. 

 

as salam alaykum, why brother? Why posting fatwa of contemporary shia scholar is pointless? 

Comedian. Considering how many threads there are on here about blood letting. Considering that the majority of Marje either ban it or conditionally allow. Hardly Ijma.

As I said on 2 other other threads you like to misrepresent and argue for the sake of arguing

[A true Sunni]

1 hour ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

With all do respect. Nasrallah isn't a scholar.

Muhammad Sadiq Al-Husayni ar-Ruhanee in his book “Ajwibatul Masail al-Itiqadiyah” p 43 said:

 

Translation:

Tatbir in the time of remembrance of Imam al-Husayn (upon him salat of Allah) is a great symbol! AND IN LAST CENTURY THERE WAS NO SCHOLAR OF FIQH THAT SEEN THIS ACT LIKE ANYTHING APART FROM GOOD DEED.

 

 

You would make a good recruit to the Malang party maybe you should consider converting to Malangism.

You have many traits that would make you an ideal candidate for their ranks.

Misrepresentation, argumentative, selective quoting being the top 3

[Ya_isa (as)]

2 hours ago, hezbul-ghaaleb said:

Nasrallah also questioned the insistence of some Shias on bloodletting rituals such as "tatbir", while these same people 'are no where to be seen when Islam, Muslims, and Islamic sanctities are in danger'.

Thank you 

[Haydar Husayn]

15 minutes ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

2) As a sunni, I can participate only in shia/sunni forum? I didn't know this rule.

That isn't a rule. However, you should limit yourself to that subforum if you wish to involve yourself in polemical discussions.

15 minutes ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

as salam alaykum, why brother? Why posting fatwa of contemporary shia scholar is pointless? 

Wa `alaikum as-salaam,

Because it doesn't in any way invalidate what Sayyid Nasrullah said. Sayyid Rohani is a well-known supporter of these types of rituals, and hence is hardly an unbiased source. Aside from that, it's a little odd to limit yourself to only discussing scholars in the last century. Anyway, there was some controversy over these rituals in the 1920's, and Sayyid Muhsin al-Amin al-`Amili, among others, spoke out against them (see The Flagellations of Muharram and the Shi`ite `Ulema by Werner Ende, which is easily found on the internet). It would seem as if Sayyid Muhsin was a scholar of fiqh.

[Ya_isa (as)]

2 hours ago, hezbul-ghaaleb said:

Nasrallah also questioned the insistence of some Shias on bloodletting rituals such as "tatbir", while these same people 'are no where to be seen when Islam, Muslims, and Islamic sanctities are in danger'.

Thank you 

[A true Sunni]

2 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

I've heard from a couple of Lebanese scholars that when the Israelis arrived in Lebanon, they came around 'Ashura time and saw the Lebenese performing tatbir, and they out of fear they retreated.

 

You hear a lot of stories that have little basis in reality. 

[Ali_Hussain]

4 minutes ago, A true Sunni said:

You hear a lot of stories that have little basis in reality. 

Such as?

I don't believe this story, as it is well known that Hezbollah chases the Israelis out of Lebanon.

[A true Sunni]

6 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Such as?

I don't believe this story, as it is well known that Hezbollah chases the Israelis out of Lebanon.

Why did you quote a story and give it weight by saying it was from Scholars. It seemed to me that you were  in agreement with this dubious story. Now you say you didnt believe it

[Haydar Husayn]

16 minutes ago, A true Sunni said:

Why did you quote a story and give it weight by saying it was from Scholars. It seemed to me that you were  in agreement with this dubious story. Now you say you didnt believe it

You have an unfortunate habit of hitting people on your own side with 'friendly fire' out of your zeal to oppose these practices. Try giving people the benefit of the doubt before attacking them. If the word 'scholar' gives weight to a story in your mind, then I would suggest that you haven't listened to enough 'scholars'. Keep in mind that the Tawhidi clown would be classed as a scholar by most people, at least informally speaking.

[A true Sunni]

On 10/11/2016 at 2:18 PM, Haydar Husayn said:

You have an unfortunate habit of hitting people on your own side with 'friendly fire' out of your zeal to oppose these practices. Try giving people the benefit of the doubt before attacking them. If the word 'scholar' gives weight to a story in your mind, then I would suggest that you haven't listened to enough 'scholars'. Keep in mind that the Tawhidi clown would be classed as a scholar by most people, at least informally speaking.

In fact I would suggest in recognition that its the 10th night and wanted to be less aggressive I was positively charitable.

When you have the likes of Abu Rumaysa on here spreading misinformation and garbage we should all be very careful of the language we use.

I would suggest that its because I have listened to real scholars that I am sensitive to over use of this word. 

Use of the word scholar should be exercised with caution and our position clearly laid out so that likes of Abu_Rumaysah are discouraged.

[Abu_Rumaysah]

On 10/11/2016 at 1:27 PM, Haydar Husayn said:

That isn't a rule. However, you should limit yourself to that subforum if you wish to involve yourself in polemical discussions.

as salam alaykum.

Barakallahu fik brother. Should I understand that you are not making any polemical discussions within your mazhab? 

Quote

 

Wa `alaikum as-salaam,

Because it doesn't in any way invalidate what Sayyid Nasrullah said. Sayyid Rohani is a well-known supporter of these types of rituals, and hence is hardly an unbiased source. Aside from that, it's a little odd to limit yourself to only discussing scholars in the last century. Anyway, there was some controversy over these rituals in the 1920's, and Sayyid Muhsin al-Amin al-`Amili, among others, spoke out against them (see The Flagellations of Muharram and the Shi`ite `Ulema by Werner Ende, which is easily found on the internet). It would seem as if Sayyid Muhsin was a scholar of fiqh.

 

So did Ruhani lied when he said that none faqih in recent age prohibited this ritual?

[Haydar Husayn]

8 minutes ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

as salam alaykum.

Barakallahu fik brother. Should I understand that you are not making any polemical discussions within your mazhab? 

Am I making polemical discussions? Some may see it that way, but this is ShiaChat, which is mainly a place for Shias to discuss and debate. Obviously we disagree on all types of topics, but it's within our school of thought. I'm sure you know that on Sunni forums, Shias coming into threads that have nothing to do with Sunni-Shia issues wouldn't be well-received. This is just common sense.

8 minutes ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

So did Ruhani lied when he said that none faqih in recent age prohibited this ritual?

Why would I accuse him of lying? Do you accuse scholars of lying every time they say something incorrect? Or do they not make mistakes? I am not Allah to know what his intentions are, so I will assume that he simply made a mistake. Or of course, it's possible that I am wrong, and am relying on incorrect information.

[Wing]

May the blessings of Allah be upon this strong and wise leader. The timing of Nasrallah seems to be on point aswell. People increase the amount of rituals every year with pagan-like qualities that have nothing to do with mourning or honoring Husayn.

 

A bit off topic but have you guys seen the RT news version of Ashura? It is age restricted.

 

Edit: Can a mod put it in a spoiler or turn it into an url? I just copied the Youtube link but it transformed into a video here.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Wing

[ShiaMan14]

On 10/11/2016 at 11:42 AM, Haydar Husayn said:

With all due respect, this isn't the proper subforum for you to be engaging in your polemics, and I'm sure if you spend a little bit of time thinking you'll realise why what you posted is sort of pointless.

 

On 10/11/2016 at 11:57 AM, Abu_Rumaysah said:

as salam alaykum, why brother? Why posting fatwa of contemporary shia scholar is pointless? 

I think what brother @Haydar Husayn is trying to tell you brother @Abu_Rumaysah is that as a sunni your primary focus should be stopping fellow sunnis from suicide bombing and killing innocent men, women and children all over the world. Once that problem is solved, then by all means come and tell us whether we can scratch our heads and back or not.

you know, something about getting your own house in order...

[A true Sunni]

2 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

 

I think what brother @Haydar Husayn is trying to tell you brother @Abu_Rumaysah is that as a sunni your primary focus should be stopping fellow sunnis from suicide bombing and killing innocent men, women and children all over the world. Once that problem is solved, then by all means come and tell us whether we can scratch our heads and back or not.

you know, something about getting your own house in order...

I don't know what your problem is. If I tell you contemporary scholars are against it and a very few conditionally allow it. You call me a fitna monger.

If Abu Rumaysah supports your position and says you are right you tell him to go mind his own business.

You should be thanking Abu Rumaysah not condemining him. The man is on your side.  

He is working hard at proving all us anti-blood letters wrong. Go embrace your Sunni brother you follow enough of their narrations already

[ShiaMan14]

16 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

I don't know what your problem is. If I tell you contemporary scholars are against it and a very few conditionally allow it. You call me a fitna monger.

I call you a fitna monger because of your insistence at talking about an issue that shia brothers are asking to stop only until past Ashura. But you let your ego get in the way of the wishes of shia brethren. It was very easy for me to stop.Why couldn't you.

16 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

If Abu Rumaysah supports your position and says you are right you tell him to go mind his own business.

You should be thanking Abu Rumaysah not condemining him. The man is on your side.  

He is working hard at proving all us anti-blood letters wrong. Go embrace your Sunni brother you follow enough of their narrations already

Like I said, no non-shia will tell us how to observe the martyrdom of Syed-us-Shohada. @Abu_Rumaysah needs to worry about the issues within the Sunni world rather than tell us what we can and cannot do.

How come your feelings always get hurt whenever something is said to Sunnis?

[A true Sunni]

8 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

I call you a fitna monger because of your insistence at talking about an issue that shia brothers are asking to stop only until past Ashura. But you let your ego get in the way of the wishes of shia brethren. It was very easy for me to stop.Why couldn't you.

Like I said, no non-shia will tell us how to observe the martyrdom of Syed-us-Shohada. @Abu_Rumaysah needs to worry about the issues within the Sunni world rather than tell us what we can and cannot do.

How come your feelings always get hurt whenever something is said to Sunnis?

As I said if its OK for Syed Hassan Nasrullah to talk about it over Moharram its OK for me as well.

If I am a fitna monger then so is Syed Hassan Nasrullah

And I still cannot understand your antipathy for Abu-Rumaysah. He is fighting the good fight on your behalf

Embrace the man as your brother just as you embrace his hadith

[ShiaMan14]

1 minute ago, A true Sunni said:

As I said if its OK for Syed Hassan Nasrullah to talk about it over Moharram its OK for me as well.

Surely you are not comparing yourself to Nasrullah.

1 minute ago, A true Sunni said:

And I still cannot understand your antipathy for Abu-Rumaysah. He is fighting the good fight on your behalf

Embrace the man as your brother just as you embrace his hadith

Embracing sunnis is more your kind of a thing.

[A true Sunni]

7 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Surely you are not comparing yourself to Nasrullah.

Embracing sunnis is more your kind of a thing.

Typical of you to avoid the question. Typical of those that have no answer

[ShiaMan14]

Just now, A true Sunni said:

Typical of you to avoid the question. Typical of those that have no answer

What question have I avoided?

You have issues other than "oh Ahlulbayt never did it", "oh it makes us look bad", "oh you are re-creating AhlulBayt". Let me know when you have something substantive to discuss.

[A true Sunni]

1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

What question have I avoided?

You have issues other than "oh Ahlulbayt never did it", "oh it makes us look bad", "oh you are re-creating AhlulBayt". Let me know when you have something substantive to discuss.

Question 1

Why is it OK for Hassan Nasrullah during Moharram to say that people are re-inventing the Ahlul Bait in their own image and condemn blood letters. Whilst I get lied about and get called a fitna monger .

Question 2

Why do you get so uptight when Abu-Rumaysah backs your position against me. You attack me for being against you and you attack him for being with you.

Seems like you have issues 

[ShiaMan14]

1 hour ago, A true Sunni said:

Question 1

Why is it OK for Hassan Nasrullah during Moharram to say that people are re-inventing the Ahlul Bait in their own image and condemn blood letters. Whilst I get lied about and get called a fitna monger 

Did anyone ask the members of ShiaChat very politely to discuss these matters after Ashura?
     Yes
Did people comply?
     Everyone but you for the most part.

Nasrullah specifically mentioned some other activities and himself said he chooses not to speak about the divisive issue. So if you had actually listened to the entire video and not jumped to conclusions, you would realize that even Nasrullah did not want to discuss tatbir specifically during the 10 days.

2 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

Question 2

Why do you get so uptight when Abu-Rumaysah backs your position against me. You attack me for being against you and you attack him for being with you.

I am not uptight about @Abu_Rumaysah at all. Him and I have had lengthy discussions on the Shia/Sunni forum and I have learned a lot from him.

If my brother and I had a disagreement over a matter; I wouldn't mind my parents or my other siblings getting involved to clear the air. However, if an outsider tries to get involved, my brother and I will be united in telling the person to stay out of it as it would be none of his concern. Similarly, @Abu_Rumaysah has no business in getting involved in a shia-shia matter. Like, I dont get involved between malikis and hanafis on praying with hands down or not or how to pray tarawih.

2 hours ago, A true Sunni said:

Seems like you have issues 

My main issue is New-Age shias who think they will mould azadari into what they perceive as acceptable and not.
My other issue is Abu Musa Ashari type shias who who get duped by Amr Al-Aas type people and not even realize when someone is genuine and when someone is simply adding fuel to the fire.

[A true Sunni]

6 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Did anyone ask the members of ShiaChat very politely to discuss these matters after Ashura?
     Yes
Did people comply?
     Everyone but you for the most part.

Nasrullah specifically mentioned some other activities and himself said he chooses not to speak about the divisive issue. So if you had actually listened to the entire video and not jumped to conclusions, you would realize that even Nasrullah did not want to discuss tatbir specifically during the 10 days.

I am not uptight about @Abu_Rumaysah at all. Him and I have had lengthy discussions on the Shia/Sunni forum and I have learned a lot from him.

If my brother and I had a disagreement over a matter; I wouldn't mind my parents or my other siblings getting involved to clear the air. However, if an outsider tries to get involved, my brother and I will be united in telling the person to stay out of it as it would be none of his concern. Similarly, @Abu_Rumaysah has no business in getting involved in a shia-shia matter. Like, I dont get involved between malikis and hanafis on praying with hands down or not or how to pray tarawih.

My main issue is New-Age shias who think they will mould azadari into what they perceive as acceptable and not.
My other issue is Abu Musa Ashari type shias who who get duped by Amr Al-Aas type people and not even realize when someone is genuine and when someone is simply adding fuel to the fire.

Since this is a open forum and there are no shiachat rules pertaining to debates around Moharram. I think you will find that compliance is an optional issue. If it should become a Shiachat rule then I will comply. Until that time I see myself as a free agent able to comment as and when I wish. Again I say if debating during Moharram is good enough for Syed Hassan Masrullah its good enough for me.

Saying you dont see tatbirists defending the holy shrines is Hassam Nasrullahs way of sitting on the fence is it. Seems like a pretty strong condemnation to me.

Back to Abu Rumaysah. This is an open forum. There is no restriction on who can comment where. There are no Shiachat rules about non-Shias commenting on tatbir.

Seems like it embarrasses you to have a Sunni Ally. On an another thread you said you had no problem with Sunni narrations that supported blood letting.

You had no problem using Sunni narrations and didnt see them as being a Shia Shia issue so by default you should not have an issue with Abu Rumaysah's support of you.

Consistency is all I ask. You cannot have your cake and eat it.

I have no interest in your opinion on various types of Shia since I view you as new age so i think you are again choosing to draw the line where you wish.

You malang types changed Azadari practices 200 years ago and now seek to stop people redefining it . and changing it back