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wmehar2

Sufism in the Words of Dr. Sayed Ammar Nakshawani

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3 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

It was very good, what do you think of Ammar's speech on Sufism @wmehar2?

I think it was very insightful, I don't think he was misleading.  He made several of the same points I'd try to make towards people's ideas surrounding what sufism is and how it's not a sect.   I was a bit disappointed as he didn't get to answer all his initial questions in his lecture.  Such as if there were any individuals that the Prophet SAW/ and Imam 'Ali AS did teach spirituality in the context of Islam, outside of the hard outward laws.

He's absolutely right that Sufism (for the most part, except Naqshbandi Sufis) can take on different tariqas, and base their lineage of masters ultimately up to who it should be, and that's the Prophet Muhammad SAW through 'Ali ibn Abi Talib AS. 

Some Sufi's go crazy and herald emphasis on Rumi, or Ghazali, or Hassan al Basri and lose sight of the spiritual aspect...when the golden lineage of spiritual knowledge ultimately is the Ahlul Bait/Prophet.

Though it is a tiny bit of a shame that Ammar diminished Ghazali's contribution towards Islam.

It's concerning how some Sufi's whirl, over embellish asceticism (though with good intentions), or just lose sight of the meaning of why they started seeking spiritual knowledge when concerned with just appearing humble (so they can LOOK as though discard the dunya materialisms).... Many unfortunately become fanatics for the personalities that were the sufi masters because of the great wisdom, peace instilling characteristics they brought with them.  For without a doubt, these sufi masters were exceptional people to amass a following and convert scores of people.

Nowadays, you see many Sufi tekkes become obsessed with their current master, and follow them blindly.  It's rare, but a decent sufi master from what I've seen doesn't try to draw attention to himself, and  tries to adopt the most humble approach in teaching their student.  They tend to implement a dichotomy between student and teacher where the teacher learns from the student, as well and other enabling environments for the spiritual-seeking individual.  For the purpose of avoiding fanaticism, many Sufi masters forbade that their sayings and deeds be recorded by their students (such as Baha ud Din Naqshband).  Conceptually to these fanatics/people, these missionary Sufi Saints were "mini-messengers" that had immense character qualities/traits such that they tried to record mini-hadiths of these masters (ironically and hilariously enough).

Historically original sufi masters were known to be descendants of 'Ali ibn Abi Talib/ Sayyids-Sharifs who left (for a variety of well known reasons such as persecution of Ahlul Bait) and went on a missionary quest to spread Islam and to preserve their spiritual knowledge handed down to them.  Since these sufi masters (some call them saints) possessed great spiritual inclinations (and of course didn't spread their faith by sword and preached tolerance and peace), Significant  populations from India, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Kurdistan, Macedonia/Albania, Turkey converted to Islam and started following different branches of Sufism.  Many of these sufi masters also played key roles in pacifying quarrels, feuds, bridging two conflicting parties and ended up being revered as saints (hence you get alot of shrines erected and people praying at shrines).

Some sufi masters let their blood lineage get a grip of their ego, and they abuse it to become a central icon and amass wealth.

For the most part, the original masters who traveled and spread Islam (and their branch of sufism), did not very greatly in terms of Fiqh, Aqeedah, theological tenets.  Some DID, but however they never believed one to leave the fold of Islam should it be the case, nor have they ever preached violence as a way to remedy the variance.  Unfortunately, students of sufi masters do eventually shift the original teachers and throw in their own interpretations. However, the stances towards unity never changed, and no one ever imposed their beliefs on others nor faulted anyone for not sharing them.  I admire that they (from the people Ive met and learned from) want to unite Islam and not necessarily by making sufis out of everyone but by trying to bridge them together pointing out essential common attributes across sects.

Unfortunately you end up with sufi students/tariqas extending Ahlul Bait status to some of these sufi masters, too and they try to implement wasilah to them.  Sufism is not without a complicated history.  

Not many people know who these sufi masters were,such as Abdul Qadir Gilani, Sayyid Ali Akbar (though I understand his existence is refuted/disagreed by many Shia', unfortunately there's enough compelling evidence to substantiate his existence as he is the brother of the Shia's al Mahdi and many genealogical records have been accounted for - see side note below), from Sayyid Ali Akbar, many Sufi masters were born (the whole Naqshbandi deal derived here), Baha-ud Din Naqshband Bukhari, Mir Sayyid Muhammad Nurbaksh Qahistani, and many more and the aforementioned descendants. 

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Side note:

Although Shiite historians generally reject the claim Hasan al-Askari fathered children other than Muhammad al-Mahdi, the Shiite hadith book Usul al-Kafi, in Bab Mawlid Abi Muhammad al-Hasan b. 'Ali confirms the claim that Hasan al-Askari had more than one wife, in addition to slave girls, with whom he had relations. In his Usul, al-Kafi writes:

When the caliph got news of Imam Hasan 'Askari's illness, he instructed his agents to keep a constant watch over the house of 
the Imam...he sent some of these midwives to examine the slave girls of the Imam to determine if they were pregnant.
If a woman was found pregnant she was detained and imprisoned..."

 

While many Ulema in Ahlus Sunnah generally deny the existance of any children of Imam Hasan ibn ‘Ali al-Askari [as], including the Mahdi [as], those amongst the Sufis who do believe he had a son believe Khwaja Baha al-Din Shah Naqshband, Khwaja Qubt al-Din Mawdud (according to the elders of the Chishtiyya, as he founded the Chishtiyya order) and Sayyid Ahmad Badawi of Egypt all descend from Imam Abu Muhammad Hasan ibn ‘Ali al-Askari Thani [as]. While the Shiites in general deny this, ironically, the only textual evidence to support this Sufi claim comes from a narration found in the Shiite hadith book al-Kafi. According to al-Kafi, in his Usool, in the chapter of the Birth of Abi Muhammad al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali: “When Abi Muhammad al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali became ill…the Sultan…called certain women with knowledge to deal with pregnancy. They examined his (Abi Muhammad al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali [as]) ladies. A certain woman had said one of the ladies is pregnant. She was accommodated in a certain quarter… When the pregnancy was proved invalid, they distributed his legacy between his mother and brother” [al-Kafi, by Muhammad Ya’qub Kulayni. Translated by Muhammad Sarwar. Chap. 124, Birth of Abi Muhammad al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali, p.705]. This narration of the Shiites establishes that Imam Hasan al-Askari [rad] had more than one concubine and multiple maids with whom he had relations, and through whom he could have had progeny other than Sahib uz-Zaman Imam Abul Qasim Muhammad al-Muntadhar al-Mahdi [as] as the Sufis claim.

I don't see how the existence of the Shia's  Mahdi's brother would interrupt or disprove, or give holes to fundamental Shia' tennets/theology, but the existence of this brother of the Shia' Mahdi is just further support that Imam Hasan Al Askari had children against the Sunnis better judgement of denying he had children at all.

If the Shia' Mahdi, did have a younger brother per Kulayni's Usul al Kafi, it is clear one of them did seem to appear pregnant.   Even so, its very plausible that the 11th Imam took precautionary measures in addition to his first son.

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On 10/10/2016 at 8:44 AM, wmehar2 said:

Such as if there were any individuals that the Prophet SAW/ and Imam 'Ali AS did teach spirituality in the context of Islam, outside of the hard outward laws.

Yes, Only Salman Farsi Had the capacity to accept such knowledge due to his open mind and thirst for such knowledge, other Sahabas did not reach the level of Salman Farsi:

The prophet (pbuh) said:

Salman,You have reached a position that our knowledge and secrets,

have been stored and protected in the closet of your mind,

You are aware of whatever we command and forbid,

You are the teachers of the Muslims,

Muslims should learn their etiquette of laws of religion from you

Oh Salman, I swear by God, that you are the passage of the knowledge of my Ahlul bayt(House-Hold)

Who ever wants the knowledge of interpretation, descent, mysteries and secrets,

should follow you.

You are aware of the knowledge of the first and last, the manifest and the hidden,

and a freeman and pious in life and death

*Salman the first Iranian Muslim-First edition pg102, Rijal alkeshi pg7

 

Imam Baqir (a) asked Fazl Yasar,

So you know the statement which Ali (a) said about Salman,

that Salman has the knowledge of the First and the Last?

Fazl said: it means that he had both the knowledge of Bani Israel and knowledge of the prophet.

The Imam said: it is not as you said. It means that he had the knowledge of the prophet (pbuh) and Ali (a)

*Salman the first Iranian Muslim-First edition pg 94, Rijal alkeshi pg10

 

One day at the presence of Imam Ali (a) a conversation regarding Salman took place.

Asbagh Bin Nabateh asked Ali (a): What is the virtue and status of Salman in Islam?

Ali (a) said: What should I say of someone who is created from our nature?

His spirit is allied on our spirits

And God the most High, has blessed him with the knowledge of the First and the Last, Manifest and hidden.

*Salman the first Iranian Muslim-First edition pg94, Al Ekhtasas pg 221- 222

 

In other sources it has been asked from the prophet (pbuh)

and said, Do you mean Salman from Bani Hashim?

Prophet (pbuh) said : no.

Do you mean that he is from the family of Abdul Muttalib?

The prophet said: no it is not like this, 

how ever it is like when God the most high quotes Ibrahim (a):

who ever follows me, is of me,

in this way, since Salman is our true follower, hence he is of our household.

*Salman the first Iranian Muslim-First edition pg1116

Edited by certainclarity

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30 minutes ago, certainclarity said:

Yes, Only Salman Farsi Had the capacity to accept such knowledge due to his open mind and thirst for such knowledge, other Sahabas did not reach the level of Salman Farsi:

The prophet (pbuh) said:

Salman,You have reached a position that our knowledge and secrets,

have been stored and protected in the closet of your mind,

You are aware of whatever we command and forbid,

You are the teachers of the Muslims,

Muslims should learn their etiquette of laws of religion from you

Oh Salman, I swear by God, that you are the passage of the knowledge of my Ahlul bayt(House-Hold)

Who ever wants the knowledge of interpretation, descent, mysteries and secrets,

should follow you.

You are aware of the knowledge of the first and last, the manifest and the hidden,

and a freeman and pious in life and death

*Salman the first Iranian Muslim-First edition pg102, Rijal alkeshi pg7

 

Imam Baqir (a) asked Fazl Yasar,

So you know the statement which Ali (a) said about Salman,

that Salman has the knowledge of the First and the Last?

Fazl said: it means that he had both the knowledge of Bani Israel and knowledge of the prophet.

The Imam said: it is not as you said. It means that he had the knowledge of the prophet (pbuh) and Ali (a)

*Salman the first Iranian Muslim-First edition pg 94, Rijal alkeshi pg10

 

One day at the presence of Imam Ali (a) a conversation regarding Salman took place.

Asbagh Bin Nabateh asked Ali (a): What is the virtue and status of Salman in Islam?

Ali (a) said: What should I say of someone who is created from our nature?

His spirit is allied on our spirits

And God the most High, has blessed him with the knowledge of the First and the Last, Manifest and hidden.

*Salman the first Iranian Muslim-First edition pg94, Al Ekhtasas pg 221- 222

 

In other sources it has been asked from the prophet (pbuh)

and said, Do you mean Salman from Bani Hashim?

Prophet (pbuh) said : no.

Do you mean that he is from the family of Abdul Muttalib?

The prophet said: no it is not like this, 

how ever it is like when God the most high quotes Ibrahim (a):

who ever follows me, is of me,

in this way, since Salman is our true follower, hence he is of our household.

*Salman the first Iranian Muslim-First edition pg1116

Do you know if Salman, e Farsi was able to give ijaza/spiritual authority to students to take the same oath.

 

Salman e farsi ( may Allah be pleased with him ) is in many sufi spiritual lineages of the chain of knowledge from imam Ali AS.

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1 hour ago, wmehar2 said:

Do you know if Salman, e Farsi was able to give ijaza/spiritual authority to students to take the same oath.

 

Salman e farsi ( may Allah be pleased with him ) is in many sufi spiritual lineages of the chain of knowledge from imam Ali AS.

From Persian texts we know that there is no such as a thing as ijaza thru Ahlul bayt and Salman Farsi, as this is a sufi thing not an ahlul bayt thing.

 When a person shows a level and capacity of open mindness to seek and follow the truth,they are given such knowledge.

Salman Farsi was known to be an introvert.

But what is known from shia narrations, we had Ashabeh Seir ( Companions of the secret) So higher levels of knowledge was given to those who seeked it, and kept amongst themselves, as the majority did not have the capacity to handle higher levels of knolwedge and metaphysical realities.

Also there is common mistake from non persian speakers who mix up Sufis with Arifs.

For example, Rumi in Iran is known to be an Arif not Sufi, similarly Hafez Shirazi and the likes.

Salman Farsi is known to be an Arif ( knowing) similar to the Ahlul bayt who are Arifs( those who know) and teach Marefat Allah, which is Irfan.

Hence Irfan and Gnosis flourished amongst the Iranians the most.

Imam Reza (a) :God the great and most high, from the time of the death of the Prophet till now, will grace the children of Ajaam (non Arabs), with this religion, and will make them of his family, hence he gives to them and restrains from those (Arabs)

Majlisi, Mohammad Baqir, Bihar al Anwar, vol 48, pg 304

Salman was the first Iranian,non Arab who was called part of the ahlul bayt by the prophet

Edited by certainclarity

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41 minutes ago, certainclarity said:

From Persian texts we know that there is no such as a thing as ijaza thru Ahlul bayt and Salman Farsi, as this is a sufi thing not an ahlul bayt thing.

 When a person shows a level and capacity of open mindness to seek and follow the truth,they are given such knowledge.

Salman Farsi was known to be an introvert.

But what is known from shia narrations, we had Ashabeh Seir ( Companions of the secret) So higher levels of knolwedge was given to those who seeked it, and kept amongst themselves, as the majority did not have the capacity to handle higher levels of knolwedge and metaphysical realities.

Also there is common mistake from non persian speakers who mix up Sufis with Arifs.

For example, Rumi in Iran is known to be an Arif not Sufi, similarly Hafez Shirazi and the likes.

Salman Farsi is known to be an Arif ( knowing) similar to the Ahlul bayt who are Arifs( those who know) and teach Marefat Allah, which is Irfan.

Hence Irfan and Gnosis flourished amongst the Iranians the most

Sufi / 'Arif terminology is rather irrelevant as "Sufi" chains of knowledge aren't  necessarily implying the teacher and students are a lable under Sufi.

As defined before,  a sufist is one who strives to work on their inner dimensional (or spiritual) Islam.  It is not a sect.

Anyone who dwells and thinks of God each night, can characterize themselves as a sufi.

I wouldn't hasten to Call Rumi an 'Arif,  rather it was natural to call such personalities as Rumi a sufi,  because of their spiritual works, narratives and self reflecting Inclinations over the outwardly ones.

Salman, as you've appropriately said was a very deep and introverted individual characterized by deep reflection and incredible insight due to his focus on balancing the outward and inner self. Thus for those reasons people like to attribute the label of being a sufi in addition to being an Arif.  

However, I understand you're intended meaning when you say 'Arif and sufis.  There are many who claim they are 'Arif and self proclaim the title of a "sufi master ". When in fact, they're highly questionable.

Reaching the state of Arif, is hard to identify and those who are humble,  may never admit to have reaching it...let alone embark on a quest to share it.... as you've appropriately stated, not everyone is ready or able to manifest great knowledge.  In Sufism, not everyone is capable of having the perfecting/mastering the  between outward and inward inclinations of the human,  and both are necessary in trying to achieve the status as an Arif.  Thus being a sufist, in addition to a muslim ia essential. 

But, who is qualified to give that title to anyone ?

There are different sufi chains that have Salman as a source to Ali,  and others the Imams, as a source to Ali,  but nevertheless they all share the same single source of their "truth".  The issue is whether or not their knowledge exists today and if we know it, and can filter out pretenders.

 

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1 hour ago, wmehar2 said:

Sufi / 'Arif terminology is rather irrelevant as "Sufi" chains of knowledge aren't  necessarily implying the teacher and students are a lable under Sufi.

As defined before,  a sufist is one who strives to work on their inner dimensional (or spiritual) Islam.  It is not a sect.

Anyone who dwells and thinks of God each night, can characterize themselves as a sufi.

I wouldn't hasten to Call Rumi an 'Arif,  rather it was natural to call such personalities as Rumi a sufi,  because of their spiritual works, narratives and self reflecting Inclinations over the outwardly ones.

Salman, as you've appropriately said was a very deep and introverted individual characterized by deep reflection and incredible insight due to his focus on balancing the outward and inner self. Thus for those reasons people like to attribute the label of being a sufi in addition to being an Arif.  

However, I understand you're intended meaning when you say 'Arif and sufis.  There are many who claim they are 'Arif and self proclaim the title of a "sufi master ". When in fact, they're highly questionable.

Reaching the state of Arif, is hard to identify and those who are humble,  may never admit to have reaching it...let alone embark on a quest to share it.... as you've appropriately stated, not everyone is ready or able to manifest great knowledge.  In Sufism, not everyone is capable of having the perfecting/mastering the  between outward and inward inclinations of the human,  and both are necessary in trying to achieve the status as an Arif.  Thus being a sufist, in addition to a muslim ia essential. 

But, who is qualified to give that title to anyone ?

There are different sufi chains that have Salman as a source to Ali,  and others the Imams, as a source to Ali,  but nevertheless they all share the same single source of their "truth".  The issue is whether or not their knowledge exists today and if we know it, and can filter out pretenders.

 

Very good point, though when we go back to the root of words in Farsi and Arabic,The terminology  Irfan refers to "knowing" and normally indicates to Knowing God, and knowing God according to the Shias is only thru the method of Ahlul bayt, nothing more nothing less.

And the path of an Arif is balancing both the outer and inner realities like the prophets and imams. 

But how you progress in the path is up to ourselves, and our personalities.

Actually the Sufi ideology in persian texts, is indicated in verses in the Quran, regarding a group, who were later called Ashabeh Sufeh who resided on a shaded platform in the mosque of the prophet ( Sufeh means Shade) and later moved out from the mosque area.

They were extremely poor people during the time of the prophet, who would only Call upon there Lord, there were so poor, they would even share one date thru out the day. Yet they preferred not to work and just call upon their Lord and were content, with even half a date. The prophet wanted them to be active, and a verse was revealed by Allah telling the prophet, leave them alone and let them call me day and night, otherwise, you oh Mohammad will be of the oppressors.

So the Sufis try to relate them self to the Ashabeh Sufeh:

In 4,5 moon calendar period, a group of people who lived a life of abstinence-orientation, would call them selves sufis, and would relate themselves to the Ashabeh Sufeh. 

Seraj, Abd Dullah, vol 1, page 27, almaeh, leidan,1914

If would had been very beneficial if you understood farsi, as you can recognize, an Arif thru his words. Rumis poetry translated in English...has lost alot of its depth in translation.That is why original texts and understanding original text is so important.

A proficient farsi speaker, and well versed in farsi literature and spirituality can actually understand the seir and sulook, of a person thru his works.The progress of Rumi day one till Rumi last day could be seen thru his works. 

Only a person with a higher level of irfan himself can tell what level of Irfan the other person is at. Rumi never called himself a Sufi or an Arif. 

As you mentioned, people with true Gnosis dont call themselves Arifs, you just know them thru their distinct words and action.

Edited by certainclarity

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57 minutes ago, certainclarity said:

Very good point, though when we go back to the root of words in Farsi and Arabic,The terminology  Irfan refers to "knowing" and normally indicates to Knowing God, and knowing God according to the Shias is only thru the method of Ahlul bayt, nothing more nothing less.

And the path of an Arif is balancing both the outer and inner realities like the prophets and imams. 

But how you progress in the path is up to ourselves, and our personalities.

Actually the Sufi ideology in persian texts, is indicated in verses in the Quran, regarding a group, who were later called Ashabeh Sufeh who resided on a shaded platform in the mosque of the prophet ( Sufeh means Shade) and later moved out from the mosque area.

They were extremely poor people during the time of the prophet, who would only Call upon there Lord, there were so poor, they would even share one date thru out the day. Yet they preferred not to work and just call upon their Lord and were content, with even half a date. The prophet wanted them to be active, and a verse was revealed by Allah telling the prophet, leave them alone and let them call me day and night, otherwise, you oh Mohammad will be of the oppressors.

So the Sufis try to relate them self to the Ashabeh Sufeh:

In 4,5 moon calendar period, a group of people who lived a life of abstinence-orientation, would call them selves sufis, and would relate themselves to the Ashabeh Sufeh. 

Seraj, Abd Dullah, vol 1, page 27, almaeh, leidan,1914

If would had been very beneficial if you understood farsi, as you can recognize, an Arif thru his words. Rumis poetry translated in English...has lost alot of its depth in translation.That is why original texts and understanding original text is so important.

A proficient farsi speaker, and well versed in farsi literature and spirituality can actually understand the seir and sulook, of a person thru his works.The progress of Rumi day one till Rumi last day could be seen thru his works. 

Only a person with a higher level of irfan himself can tell what level of Irfan the other person is at. Rumi never called himself a Sufi or an Arif. 

As you mentioned, people with true Gnosis dont call themselves Arifs, you just know them thru their distinct words and action.

Very interesting!

I though Azul meant shade/Shadow?  ( I'm sorry, I'm not a farsi speaker by any means, just English/Arabic)

I guess Sufi isn't the greatest word to use then, if you were to purpose it to mean through those farsi contexts.  My understanding/definition of Sufism is greatly contrasting of that of which you described.  Which extends that I can't necessarily extend my own personal label/definition of something towards someone else if they didn't characterize themselves with that very same word.

Better to think to different terminology such as Irfan and one who is 'Arif.

Though it's a shame/discouraging that now I'm limited access to this from a language barrier.  It was hard enough learning Arabic.

Edited by wmehar2

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On 10/11/2016 at 2:57 PM, certainclarity said:

Very good point, though when we go back to the root of words in Farsi and Arabic,The terminology  Irfan refers to "knowing" and normally indicates to Knowing God, and knowing God according to the Shias is only thru the method of Ahlul bayt, nothing more nothing less.

And the path of an Arif is balancing both the outer and inner realities like the prophets and imams. 

But how you progress in the path is up to ourselves, and our personalities.

Actually the Sufi ideology in persian texts, is indicated in verses in the Quran, regarding a group, who were later called Ashabeh Sufeh who resided on a shaded platform in the mosque of the prophet ( Sufeh means Shade) and later moved out from the mosque area.

They were extremely poor people during the time of the prophet, who would only Call upon there Lord, there were so poor, they would even share one date thru out the day. Yet they preferred not to work and just call upon their Lord and were content, with even half a date. The prophet wanted them to be active, and a verse was revealed by Allah telling the prophet, leave them alone and let them call me day and night, otherwise, you oh Mohammad will be of the oppressors.

So the Sufis try to relate them self to the Ashabeh Sufeh:

In 4,5 moon calendar period, a group of people who lived a life of abstinence-orientation, would call them selves sufis, and would relate themselves to the Ashabeh Sufeh. 

Seraj, Abd Dullah, vol 1, page 27, almaeh, leidan,1914

If would had been very beneficial if you understood farsi, as you can recognize, an Arif thru his words. Rumis poetry translated in English...has lost alot of its depth in translation.That is why original texts and understanding original text is so important.

A proficient farsi speaker, and well versed in farsi literature and spirituality can actually understand the seir and sulook, of a person thru his works.The progress of Rumi day one till Rumi last day could be seen thru his works. 

Only a person with a higher level of irfan himself can tell what level of Irfan the other person is at. Rumi never called himself a Sufi or an Arif. 

As you mentioned, people with true Gnosis dont call themselves Arifs, you just know them thru their distinct words and action.

what do u think of hasan al basri

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On 10/10/2016 at 1:14 AM, wmehar2 said:

I think it was very insightful, I don't think he was misleading.  He made several of the same points I'd try to make towards people's ideas surrounding what sufism is and how it's not a sect.   I was a bit disappointed as he didn't get to answer all his initial questions in his lecture.  Such as if there were any individuals that the Prophet SAW/ and Imam 'Ali AS did teach spirituality in the context of Islam, outside of the hard outward laws.

He's absolutely right that Sufism (for the most part, except Naqshbandi Sufis) can take on different tariqas, and base their lineage of masters ultimately up to who it should be, and that's the Prophet Muhammad SAW through 'Ali ibn Abi Talib AS. 

Some Sufi's go crazy and herald emphasis on Rumi, or Ghazali, or Hassan al Basri and lose sight of the spiritual aspect...when the golden lineage of spiritual knowledge ultimately is the Ahlul Bait/Prophet.

Though it is a tiny bit of a shame that Ammar diminished Ghazali's contribution towards Islam.

It's concerning how some Sufi's whirl, over embellish asceticism (though with good intentions), or just lose sight of the meaning of why they started seeking spiritual knowledge when concerned with just appearing humble (so they can LOOK as though discard the dunya materialisms).... Many unfortunately become fanatics for the personalities that were the sufi masters because of the great wisdom, peace instilling characteristics they brought with them.  For without a doubt, these sufi masters were exceptional people to amass a following and convert scores of people.

Nowadays, you see many Sufi tekkes become obsessed with their current master, and follow them blindly.  It's rare, but a decent sufi master from what I've seen doesn't try to draw attention to himself, and  tries to adopt the most humble approach in teaching their student.  They tend to implement a dichotomy between student and teacher where the teacher learns from the student, as well and other enabling environments for the spiritual-seeking individual.  For the purpose of avoiding fanaticism, many Sufi masters forbade that their sayings and deeds be recorded by their students (such as Baha ud Din Naqshband).  Conceptually to these fanatics/people, these missionary Sufi Saints were "mini-messengers" that had immense character qualities/traits such that they tried to record mini-hadiths of these masters (ironically and hilariously enough).

Historically original sufi masters were known to be descendants of 'Ali ibn Abi Talib/ Sayyids-Sharifs who left (for a variety of well known reasons such as persecution of Ahlul Bait) and went on a missionary quest to spread Islam and to preserve their spiritual knowledge handed down to them.  Since these sufi masters (some call them saints) possessed great spiritual inclinations (and of course didn't spread their faith by sword and preached tolerance and peace), Significant  populations from India, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Kurdistan, Macedonia/Albania, Turkey converted to Islam and started following different branches of Sufism.  Many of these sufi masters also played key roles in pacifying quarrels, feuds, bridging two conflicting parties and ended up being revered as saints (hence you get alot of shrines erected and people praying at shrines).

Some sufi masters let their blood lineage get a grip of their ego, and they abuse it to become a central icon and amass wealth.

For the most part, the original masters who traveled and spread Islam (and their branch of sufism), did not very greatly in terms of Fiqh, Aqeedah, theological tenets.  Some DID, but however they never believed one to leave the fold of Islam should it be the case, nor have they ever preached violence as a way to remedy the variance.  Unfortunately, students of sufi masters do eventually shift the original teachers and throw in their own interpretations. However, the stances towards unity never changed, and no one ever imposed their beliefs on others nor faulted anyone for not sharing them.  I admire that they (from the people Ive met and learned from) want to unite Islam and not necessarily by making sufis out of everyone but by trying to bridge them together pointing out essential common attributes across sects.

Unfortunately you end up with sufi students/tariqas extending Ahlul Bait status to some of these sufi masters, too and they try to implement wasilah to them.  Sufism is not without a complicated history.  

Not many people know who these sufi masters were,such as Abdul Qadir Gilani, Sayyid Ali Akbar (though I understand his existence is refuted/disagreed by many Shia', unfortunately there's enough compelling evidence to substantiate his existence as he is the brother of the Shia's al Mahdi and many genealogical records have been accounted for - see side note below), from Sayyid Ali Akbar, many Sufi masters were born (the whole Naqshbandi deal derived here), Baha-ud Din Naqshband Bukhari, Mir Sayyid Muhammad Nurbaksh Qahistani, and many more and the aforementioned descendants. 

-----------------------------------------------------

Side note:

Although Shiite historians generally reject the claim Hasan al-Askari fathered children other than Muhammad al-Mahdi, the Shiite hadith book Usul al-Kafi, in Bab Mawlid Abi Muhammad al-Hasan b. 'Ali confirms the claim that Hasan al-Askari had more than one wife, in addition to slave girls, with whom he had relations. In his Usul, al-Kafi writes:


When the caliph got news of Imam Hasan 'Askari's illness, he instructed his agents to keep a constant watch over the house of 
the Imam...he sent some of these midwives to examine the slave girls of the Imam to determine if they were pregnant.
If a woman was found pregnant she was detained and imprisoned..."

 

While many Ulema in Ahlus Sunnah generally deny the existance of any children of Imam Hasan ibn ‘Ali al-Askari [as], including the Mahdi [as], those amongst the Sufis who do believe he had a son believe Khwaja Baha al-Din Shah Naqshband, Khwaja Qubt al-Din Mawdud (according to the elders of the Chishtiyya, as he founded the Chishtiyya order) and Sayyid Ahmad Badawi of Egypt all descend from Imam Abu Muhammad Hasan ibn ‘Ali al-Askari Thani [as]. While the Shiites in general deny this, ironically, the only textual evidence to support this Sufi claim comes from a narration found in the Shiite hadith book al-Kafi. According to al-Kafi, in his Usool, in the chapter of the Birth of Abi Muhammad al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali: “When Abi Muhammad al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali became ill…the Sultan…called certain women with knowledge to deal with pregnancy. They examined his (Abi Muhammad al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali [as]) ladies. A certain woman had said one of the ladies is pregnant. She was accommodated in a certain quarter… When the pregnancy was proved invalid, they distributed his legacy between his mother and brother” [al-Kafi, by Muhammad Ya’qub Kulayni. Translated by Muhammad Sarwar. Chap. 124, Birth of Abi Muhammad al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali, p.705]. This narration of the Shiites establishes that Imam Hasan al-Askari [rad] had more than one concubine and multiple maids with whom he had relations, and through whom he could have had progeny other than Sahib uz-Zaman Imam Abul Qasim Muhammad al-Muntadhar al-Mahdi [as] as the Sufis claim.

I don't see how the existence of the Shia's  Mahdi's brother would interrupt or disprove, or give holes to fundamental Shia' tennets/theology, but the existence of this brother of the Shia' Mahdi is just further support that Imam Hasan Al Askari had children against the Sunnis better judgement of denying he had children at all.

If the Shia' Mahdi, did have a younger brother per Kulayni's Usul al Kafi, it is clear one of them did seem to appear pregnant.   Even so, its very plausible that the 11th Imam took precautionary measures in addition to his first son.

It's understandable that the 11th Imam took precautionary measures. Also, I'm glad you mentioned Egypt, to me as far West as West Africa, as far South as what we call the Cameroon today, Irfan or marifa (Islam) was spread by Sufi missionaries.

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On Monday, October 10, 2016 at 3:00 AM, wmehar2 said:

 

An insightful 1 hour video on Sufism by Syed Ammar.

True sofis are real muslim and slaves of Allah. I have seen on Iranian channel praising Ayatollah behjet by calling him sofi. 

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On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 9:21 PM, certainclarity said:

Yes, Only Salman Farsi Had the capacity to accept such knowledge due to his open mind and thirst for such knowledge, other Sahabas did not reach the level of Salman Farsi:

The prophet (pbuh) said:

Salman,You have reached a position that our knowledge and secrets,

have been stored and protected in the closet of your mind,

You are aware of whatever we command and forbid,

You are the teachers of the Muslims,

Muslims should learn their etiquette of laws of religion from you

Oh Salman, I swear by God, that you are the passage of the knowledge of my Ahlul bayt(House-Hold)

Who ever wants the knowledge of interpretation, descent, mysteries and secrets,

should follow you.

You are aware of the knowledge of the first and last, the manifest and the hidden,

and a freeman and pious in life and death

*Salman the first Iranian Muslim-First edition pg102, Rijal alkeshi pg7

 

Imam Baqir (a) asked Fazl Yasar,

So you know the statement which Ali (a) said about Salman,

that Salman has the knowledge of the First and the Last?

Fazl said: it means that he had both the knowledge of Bani Israel and knowledge of the prophet.

The Imam said: it is not as you said. It means that he had the knowledge of the prophet (pbuh) and Ali (a)

*Salman the first Iranian Muslim-First edition pg 94, Rijal alkeshi pg10

 

One day at the presence of Imam Ali (a) a conversation regarding Salman took place.

Asbagh Bin Nabateh asked Ali (a): What is the virtue and status of Salman in Islam?

Ali (a) said: What should I say of someone who is created from our nature?

His spirit is allied on our spirits

And God the most High, has blessed him with the knowledge of the First and the Last, Manifest and hidden.

*Salman the first Iranian Muslim-First edition pg94, Al Ekhtasas pg 221- 222

 

In other sources it has been asked from the prophet (pbuh)

and said, Do you mean Salman from Bani Hashim?

Prophet (pbuh) said : no.

Do you mean that he is from the family of Abdul Muttalib?

The prophet said: no it is not like this, 

how ever it is like when God the most high quotes Ibrahim (a):

who ever follows me, is of me,

in this way, since Salman is our true follower, hence he is of our household.

*Salman the first Iranian Muslim-First edition pg1116

Salam Alikum. 

Very good subject to discuss. 

I have done some work on sofism over past many years. I am of conclusion that sofism is real Islam and it teaches one how get closeness of Allah. And in shia islam there are many great mujtahids who praised and practised sofi teachings. You can read books of Imam khomine ra Ayatollah behjet ra Ayatollah MOHHAMAD Hussain Tabatabie ra, Ayatollah jawad Maliki tabraizi and so on their teachings are full of sofism and it's principles. 

One think to mention here is, to achieve purification it is not necessary one to declear oneslef sofi or follow sofism. 

But it's is following the sofi principles of slef purification and achieving state of seeing Allah presence constantly and heart filled with unconditional love for Allah. 

No doubts Imam Gazali ra and Rumi ra were great and real sofis. 

And Nakashwani discrediting Gazali ra has no value. 

Edited by islam25

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On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 10:06 PM, certainclarity said:

From Persian texts we know that there is no such as a thing as ijaza thru Ahlul bayt and Salman Farsi, as this is a sufi thing not an ahlul bayt thing.

 When a person shows a level and capacity of open mindness to seek and follow the truth,they are given such knowledge.

Salman Farsi was known to be an introvert.

But what is known from shia narrations, we had Ashabeh Seir ( Companions of the secret) So higher levels of knowledge was given to those who seeked it, and kept amongst themselves, as the majority did not have the capacity to handle higher levels of knolwedge and metaphysical realities.

Also there is common mistake from non persian speakers who mix up Sufis with Arifs.

For example, Rumi in Iran is known to be an Arif not Sufi, similarly Hafez Shirazi and the likes.

Salman Farsi is known to be an Arif ( knowing) similar to the Ahlul bayt who are Arifs( those who know) and teach Marefat Allah, which is Irfan.

Hence Irfan and Gnosis flourished amongst the Iranians the most.

Imam Reza (a) :God the great and most high, from the time of the death of the Prophet till now, will grace the children of Ajaam (non Arabs), with this religion, and will make them of his family, hence he gives to them and restrains from those (Arabs)

Majlisi, Mohammad Baqir, Bihar al Anwar, vol 48, pg 304

Salman was the first Iranian,non Arab who was called part of the ahlul bayt by the prophet

What I know from many shia scholar. They says sofis and Arif are same even if there is that is minor difference. Definitely Rumi /Gazali and ibne Arabi ra where great sofis. And shia mujtahids have praised them. 

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On 10/10/2016 at 8:44 AM, wmehar2 said:

Side note:

Although Shiite historians generally reject the claim Hasan al-Askari fathered children other than Muhammad al-Mahdi, the Shiite hadith book Usul al-Kafi, in Bab Mawlid Abi Muhammad al-Hasan b. 'Ali confirms the claim that Hasan al-Askari had more than one wife, in addition to slave girls, with whom he had relations. In his Usul, al-Kafi writes:


When the caliph got news of Imam Hasan 'Askari's illness, he instructed his agents to keep a constant watch over the house of 
the Imam...he sent some of these midwives to examine the slave girls of the Imam to determine if they were pregnant.
If a woman was found pregnant she was detained and imprisoned..."

 

this hadith doesnt proof that Imam Mahdi (aj) has a brother they were suspicious that some of his servants may be became pregnant but Lady Narjes (as) until Last day didn't show any signs of pregnancy so they they didn't detained her.

 

muhammad-al-tijani-al-samawi was from a great Sufi Family that in his biography  book explains his Journy from Sufism to Shia Islam

The Life of Imam Al-Mahdi

This book is the biography of the Twelfth Imam, Imam Muhammad al-Mahdi (a.s.), also referred to as the Qaim of Aale Muhammad, the Awaited Imam (a.s.) and the Last of the Successors. The book also covers major objections that the opponents of Shias aim against the belief in Imam Mahdi (a.s.), which the respected author, Baqir Sharif Qarashi has refuted in a convincing way.

https://www.al-islam.org/life-imam-al-mahdi-baqir-shareef-al-qurashi

 

Then I was Guided

An autobiographical account of Sayed Tijani's search for knowledge, which aims to remove some of the barriers that exist between the schools of thought of the ahl-as-Sunnah and the shi'a by clearing misconceptions about Shi'ism.

CATEGORY: 
FEATURED CATEGORY: 
 
 
 

To Be With the Truthful

An extension of the book "Then I was Guided" by the same author, with the purpose of elaborating with further evidence on the truthfulness of Shia beliefs.

https://www.al-islam.org/be-with-truthful-muhammad-al-tijani-al-samawi

https://www.al-islam.org/person/muhammad-al-tijani-al-samawi

shia misconception about Imam Mahdi (aj) 

[ENGLISH] Princess of Rome | Full Movie

http://www.shiatv.net/video/1051455678

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

What I know from many shia scholar. They says sofis and Arif are same even if there is that is minor difference. Definitely Rumi /Gazali and ibne Arabi ra where great sofis. And shia mujtahids have praised them. 

Salam they praise them because they praised Ahlulbayt (as) & were open minded persons but don't consider them in a row as equal as sunni muslims praise Sahaba  as equal Good or bad sinless persons.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235055144-sufism-in-shias/

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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12 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam they praise them because they praised Ahlulbayt (as) & were open minded persons but don't consider them in a row as equal as sunni muslims praise Sahaba  as equal Good or bad sinless persons.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235055144-sufism-in-shias/

Mr.Why you suddenly come into shia sunni issue. It matters nothing even if they praised sahaba. We judged are caught weather we praised sahaba or not. 

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31 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Mr.Why you suddenly come into shia sunni issue. It matters nothing even if they praised sahaba. We judged are caught weather we praised sahaba or not. 

sorry I just want to explain better & the current sufism is discusioned here is sunni sufism 

Why I became Shia Muslim convert to Shia-Muhammad al-Tijani al-Samawi X Sunni Alim Persian Sub English

https://www.shiatv.net/video/51e68ac0cf45dcf42914 

The late Ayatollah Muhammad Taqi Bahjat (r.a), who was one of the greatest and most famous mystics ...:responds to Questions about spiritual Elevation

 

The Life of Ayatollah Bahjat | Documentary | The Greats Inspirational documentary 

 

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51 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

sorry I just want to explain better & the current sufism is discusioned here is sunni sufism 

Why I became Shia Muslim convert to Shia-Muhammad al-Tijani al-Samawi X Sunni Alim Persian Sub English

https://www.shiatv.net/video/51e68ac0cf45dcf42914 

The late Ayatollah Muhammad Taqi Bahjat (r.a), who was one of the greatest and most famous mystics ...:responds to Questions about spiritual Elevation

 

The Life of Ayatollah Bahjat | Documentary | The Greats Inspirational documentary 

 

Mr. One converging from sofi to shia or from shia to sofi has no major importance. What matters and what is counted is slef disciplining and slef purification and a heart that free from everything other than Allah. It is what all great sofis have taught. 

Just having names of sofi, shia or sunni has no value. 

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18 minutes ago, islam25 said:

What matters and what is counted is slef disciplining and slef purification and a heart that free from everything other than Allah

for this you need to be free from any doubt & pray Allah properly & obey Allah & obey messenger & obey who has authority to you (Wali from Allah)

if anybody just want to purify his soul Buddism & hinduism or Zen & they purify themselves for their god & have better ways but they dont relate to religion

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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I listened the whole lecture, how some of you get the idea that he even praised sufis? He criticized it in own way and its some followers and how it is enough that we already have spiritual teaching and guidance. About Behjat and Ayotullah Khomeini, they only quoted parts from some sufi works that are Harmony and related to Ahlulbait (as) teaching and nothing else. None of them followed any sufi scholar or master and their masters are no else than Ahlulbait (as). 

Edited by Dhulfikar

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24 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

for this you need to be free from any doubt & pray Allah properly & obey Allah & obey messenger & obey who has authority to you (Wali from Allah)

if anybody just want to purify his soul Buddism & hinduism or Zen & they purify themselves for their god & have better ways but they dont relate to religion

I never said buddhism. I mentioned for Allah. Again it is not name what is important it is only what is in what's heart. And so every ones resurrection depends how much ones belief is close to real tawheed of Allah. Not what is ones religion. It is  possible a Christian have belief close to Real samadi Tawheed than just being name Muslim and not having real tawheed. 

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5 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

I listened the whole lecture, how some of you get the idea that he even praised sufis? He criticized it in own way and its some followers and how it is enough that we already have spiritual teaching and guidance. About Behjat and Ayotullah Khomeini, they only quoted parts from some sufi works that are Harmony and related to Ahlulbait (as) teaching and nothing else. None of them followed any sufi scholar or master and their masters are no else than Ahlulbait (as). 

They not quoted they sofis but also practised and praised sofi. Rather it was those sofis who made building blocks in character of Khomeini ra and behjet ra. 

Imam khomines all books are filled with principles and understanding of sofism. His poetry filled with sofi understanding of Tawheed and gnosis. 

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2 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

I disagree. When I read their works, they are fully referring to Imams sayings, not sufis. 

Just I will coat one from. While he inviting west to wards Islam khomine gives highest importance to ibne Arabi ra. Rather to know real Islam khomine ra indicates the teachings of ibne Arabi. 

And ibne Arabi is central figure in sofism. 

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