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submitter71

Simple Reason why Shiasm is False

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Salam.

Every Shia believes that the best thing about Shia-Islam is that they have many narrations from Ahl Al Bayt. Shias have narrated so much from Ahl Al Bayt that the number of narrations from Jafar Al Sadiq is probably a hundred times more than the narrations from the Prophet peace be upon him.

I sometimes ask Shias: Why choose a sect that does not have many prophetic hadiths? They usually don't know this is true.

I challenge every Shia that has doubt to open up a random page in Al Kafi in order to find a prophetic hadith. Then, try it again ten times. The chances of you finding a hadith from the Prophet peace be upon him is very low. If you do the same with Sunni hadith books like Bukhari and Muslim, then you will find two or three narrations per page at least. 

 

So, we ask Shias, why follow a sect with very little prophetic hadiths? They say that they want to get their religion from Ahl Al Bayt. 

Strangely when we go to their books of hadith we find sooo many contradictions from the "infallible" Imams, to the extent that I can safely say that it is not possible to get hadith of Ahl Al Bayt from Shia books. Al Tusi collected four volumes of contradictions. Many of his attempts to reconcile authentic hadiths are silly. The more learned members here will agree with me. 

So the Shia scholars came up with the excuse of taqia. They say the Imam made taqia for the method of wiping head for ablution, for whether or not alcohol is impure, and for how much milk an infant drinking before he is made haram upon the wet-nurse. Everything and anything that cannot be explained by Shia scholars is supposedly taqia, no matter how insignificant it is. 

The real reason for these contradictions is because the Shias put faith in some narrators, who were liars in reality. 

 

As a Sunni, I ask: Why follow a sect that has relatively no prophetic hadiths? Why follow a sect in which you do not have the ability to know what the Imams taught? Sunnis have volumes of prophetic hadiths. We also have many narrations from Ahl Al Bayt, and they do not contain contradictions. 

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21 minutes ago, starlight said:

Fixed.^^ 

 

8000 is a gross exaggeration. 

There are Shia narrators that narrated more in Shia books than Abu Huraira and Aisha so this does not fix your problem.

 

If you are making the assumption that all the prophetic traditions in Sunni books are false, then this means that nobody preserved the prophetic hadiths, since Shias barely documented them. 

 

There are two possibilities.

The Sunnis collected true prophetic hadiths while the Shias did not collect them at all.

Or the Sunnis collected false prophetic hadiths while the Shias did not collect them at all.

 

In both cases, Shias have little to no prophetic hadiths. 

 

I have my money on the Sunni hadith, since I do not believe that Allah azza wa jal would allow for the prophetic hadiths to be lost. 

Edited by submitter71

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14 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Sunni logic, ladies and gentlemen.

Abu hurraira narrated approximately 5400 hadith in their books. He spent what, 3 years? With the prophet pbuh?

Ammi jaan aisha narrated approx 2200 hadith in their books, having lived with the prophet 9 years

Maula Ali (as) who lived with the holy prophet ALL HIS LIFE, was raised in the same house, who spent all his time around the prophet.....narrates 536 hadith in their books.

So the sunni thinks shiism is wrong, because we have more hadith through maula Ali (as) than abu hurraira or ammi jaan aisha.

Really stop and take the time to think how stupid sunnism is.

Haha excellent post 

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Well logical reason as per my understanding is : Tafseer is always in more volumes then Quran.

Same way Imams are Tafseer of Prophet (saw). So it is obvious we will get more versatile hadith on same matter from Imams bcoz Imam's spend whole life in teaching while Prophet spend whole life in teaching as well as Establishment of Islamic concept.

This answer is as per my own understanding. It can differ with everyone's understanding.

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34 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Sunni logic, ladies and gentlemen.

Abu hurraira narrated approximately 5400 hadith in their books. He spent what, 3 years? With the prophet pbuh?

Ammi jaan aisha narrated approx 2200 hadith in their books, having lived with the prophet 9 years

Maula Ali (as) who lived with the holy prophet ALL HIS LIFE, was raised in the same house, who spent all his time around the prophet.....narrates 536 hadith in their books.

So the sunni thinks shiism is wrong, because we have more hadith through maula Ali (as) than abu hurraira or ammi jaan aisha.

Really stop and take the time to think how stupid sunnism is.

Shiite logic ladies and gentlemen

No early hadiths from Shiism at the time of prophet saw even at the time of His saw's passing

shian e Ali never wrote or passed anything on to their future followers, I wonder why...........were they 12ites?? Sorry 12'rs??

maula Ali Sher e Khuda NEVER mentioned anything about His divine leadership, even though He knew what his role was? Or never mentioned divinity to pass on through His offspring

the closest you get is like bro submitter posted.........taqiya ........where there is no answer there is taqiya followed by unauthenticated hadiths with unknown narrators 

even to this day there is NO CLEAR EVIDENCE of Ali ra declaring that He is a divinely appointed imam the main pillar of 12ites

so the Shiite thinks he is right by following unauthenticated Hadith made by a cursed zurara or some donkey

Really stop and take time to think how stupid 12ite Shiism is

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2 hours ago, submitter71 said:

8000 is a gross exaggeration

The Sahabah Who Related the Most Hadith

Admin February 14, 2012 Comments Off on The Sahabah Who Related the Most Hadith

Here are the Sahabah رضي الله عنهم who related the most Hadith.

May we be able to memorize as many as possible. Ameen! 

1. Abu Hurayrah {Abdur-Rahman} d.59 AH at the age of 78; he narrated 5,374 Ahadith. The number of his students reaches 800.

2. Abdullah Ibn Abbas d.68 AH at the age of 71; he narrated 2,660.

3. Aisha Bint Abi Bakr ~ Umm al-Mu’minin d.58H at the age of 67; she narrated 2,210.

4. Abdullah Ibn Umar d.73 AH at the age of 84; he narrated 1,630.

http://www.muwatta.com/the-sahabah-who-related-the-most-hadith/

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Narrated by Muslim about Abu Huraira:

The Prophet of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, took my hand then he said: ((Allah created the earth on Saturday, He created in it the mountains on Sunday, He created the trees on Monday, He created the hateful on Tuesday, He created light on Wednesday, He deployed the living beings in it on Thursday, He created Adam, peace be upon him, after the afternoon of the Friday at the end of the creation from the last time of the times of Friday between the afternoon until the night)).


This hadīth contradicts the text of Qur’an! The heavens and the earth were created in six days.

A man asked the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, when will the Day of Resurrection come? Then the Prophet of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, remained silent for a while, and he looked to a boy from Azd Sheno'a who was standing in front of him, then he said: ((Resurrection Day will come before this boy gets old)) Anas said: “His age was close to mine (!).”

So because of these kind of ahaadith you became a Sunni Muslim?

One of the reasons was actually the introduction into ahaadith collections that made me doubt sunni islam.

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1 hour ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Sunni logic, ladies and gentlemen.

Abu hurraira narrated approximately 5400 hadith in their books. He spent what, 3 years? With the prophet pbuh?

Ammi jaan aisha narrated approx 2200 hadith in their books, having lived with the prophet 9 years

Maula Ali (as) who lived with the holy prophet ALL HIS LIFE, was raised in the same house, who spent all his time around the prophet.....narrates 536 hadith in their books.

So the sunni thinks shiism is wrong, because we have more hadith through maula Ali (as) than abu hurraira or ammi jaan aisha.

Really stop and take the time to think how stupid sunnism is.

Come on bro'! You shouldn't be so critical. They're graded Sahih by Bukhari and Muslim!

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Narrated Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:

The Prophet said, "You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a hole of a mastigure, you would follow them." We said, "O Allah's Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?" He said, "Whom else?"

Sahih Al Bukhari, Book 96, Hadith 50  (http://sunnah.com/bukhari/96/50)

Prophet(saw) said “You….. before you…., You…..

And see how they twisted the word of the prophetic  hadith and applied it to the  “Jews and Christians”

In the above hadith truth is mixed with falsehood.

 

Similar Hadith from the Book of Sulaym Bin Qays Al Hilali from Salman Al Farsi(ra)

 

And I heard the Messenger of Allah(saw) say : ‘My community will adopt the way of the Children of Israel, like the slipper follows the slipper, step by step, inch by inch, and cubit by cubit, to the extent that if they entered into a hole, so will they along with them. The Torah and the quran were written by one angel in one parchment with one pen and the parables and the sunnah became the same.

The Book of Sulaym Bin Qays Al Hilali , Pg 45 Part 1

https://hubeali.com/books/English-Books/The-Book-Of-Sulaym-Bin-Qays-Al-Hilali/Kitab_Sulaym_PI.pdf

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Simply put as other brothers stated, Shias don't call all Shia collection of Hadith SAHIH. 

Sunnis do, that's why they get stuck lol, Sunnis are in denial of their own claims...

Shias consider the only fully SAHIH book to be Quran.

Sunnis consider their Hadith books equal to the Quran as they consider their Hadith books fully Sahih like the Quran.

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Ya Allah...! I did not expect twenty replies this soon.

I will respond to what deserves a response. Serious and thought provoking posts will be prioritized. 

 

Very briefly, I need to say that the points about Abu Huraira and Aisha's thousands of narrations are based on a lost work called the Musnad of Baqee. The number of narrations is so exaggerated compared to any other printed works, so Sunni scholars believe these numbers to be inaccurate or a simple case of repeated narrations in the same book. 

Another important point is that my accusations against Shia hadith cannot be brushed aside by saying "we don't have a Saheeh book." My whole point is that there are a large number of AUTHENTIC Shia hadiths that contradict each other. 

 

Onto the specific responses...

 

3 hours ago, Faruk said:

Narrated by Muslim about Abu Huraira:

The Prophet of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, took my hand then he said: ((Allah created the earth on Saturday, He created in it the mountains on Sunday, He created the trees on Monday, He created the hateful on Tuesday, He created light on Wednesday, He deployed the living beings in it on Thursday, He created Adam, peace be upon him, after the afternoon of the Friday at the end of the creation from the last time of the times of Friday between the afternoon until the night)).


This hadīth contradicts the text of Qur’an! The heavens and the earth were created in six days.

A man asked the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, when will the Day of Resurrection come? Then the Prophet of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, remained silent for a while, and he looked to a boy from Azd Sheno'a who was standing in front of him, then he said: ((Resurrection Day will come before this boy gets old)) Anas said: “His age was close to mine (!).”

So because of these kind of ahaadith you became a Sunni Muslim?

One of the reasons was actually the introduction into ahaadith collections that made me doubt sunni islam.

 

I did not say I became a Sunni. I was always a Sunni. You have demonstrated that a narration contradicts the Quran. You are free to reject it. Doing so does not take you out of the fold of Sunni Islam. 

My issue is not with individual hadiths in Shia books. My issue is that there are four volumes of contradictions from infallible Imams. I read a Shia scholar say that there is not a chapter of fiqh in which we do not have contradictions from the Imams. I can give you a source if you like.

 

2 hours ago, gerashi_mp said:

Brother salam aleykom

You have raised two question here:

1) why there is no prophetic narrations?

2) why there are contradictions in shia narration books?

To answer the first question I have to say that you cannot tackle this issue based on the sunni beliefs and fundementals, when we have a narration from Imam Al Sadegh or Imam Al Baqer (peace be upon them) it is considered the sayings of the prophet (as). Ahlulbeyt have nothing from their own. They have inhereted this knowledge from the prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny). The prophet said: "I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate, whoever wants the city should enter through the gate." So these narrations from the Ahlulbeyt (peace be upon them) that you mention are all from one source, the prophet. This knowledge that Ahlulbeyt have are passed down from the prophet to Imam Ali to Imam Hassan to Imam Hussain until it gets to the Imam of our time Imam Al Mahdi (may Allah hasten his emergence). That is why we shia stress on the fact the we must receive our knowledge and teachings of Islam from Ahlulbeyt (as) because their source of knowledge is Rasulallah (as). When we say Imam Saqegh said so and so or Imam Baqer said so and so it means Rasulallah said so and so. This is our belief. Now if you don't agree with this belief and the fact that Ahlulbeyt are the inhertants of prophet's knowledge and wisdom, this is a different story to be discussed in a different topic. I hope this little answer was helpful with your first question.

 

Regarding the second question and the contradictions you mentioned in our narration books: I have to say that we do not have something called Sahih book. Each narration is to be studied intellectually and to be compared to the Quran, if it did not match the Quran then "it is to be hit against the wall" (as said in Arabic). Now the job of our early scholars who have collected these narrations was to collect, collect, and collect these narrations from here and their and put it in one book, regardless of them being authentic or not, ther were just collecting them. Their life time did not allow them to analize and distinguish the authentic from the unauthentic narrations because it would take ages to do so. Therefore, it was the responsibility of the scholars who came after to study these narrations and their authenticity and to extract the true teachings of Islam from these mixed narrations. Therefore the contradictions you are talking about in our narration books, if any, is normal because it is not Sahih books, they are just books that contain authentic and unauthentic narrations. Just because these narrations are in our books does not make them authentic.

 

Thank you for your reply brother Gerashi.

I would like to respond to your second point first by saying that I am referring to authentic hadiths. Whether or not the narrations were authentic in the view of those that collected them is not relevant, since at the end of the day, the contradictions are authentic. 

Your first point is a big problem for me and it should be a bigger problem for you. If the Imams authentically says that "X is permissible", then the Imam authentically says "X is prohibited", how can you say that both are from the Prophet peace be upon him?! In conclusion, it is false to say that the words of the Imams were the words of the Prophet peace be upon him, since he did not give taqia answers, whether the late Shia scholars like it or not.

 

1 hour ago, goldenhawk said:

The reason why we have more quotes of the imams (a.s) is because they are all upon the truth and their speeches and sayings would not contradict the holy prophet (sawas). Many fabriacted hadiths were written (especially during the ummayads) and therefore it was very hard to know distinquish the trth from falsehood. Therefore we follow the commands of the holy prophet to follow the ahlulbayt (a.s) because they would never lead us astray. So there is no problem if we follow imam jafar sadiq (a.s) because his teachings would be the same as the holy prophet (sawas). 

As for you sunnis, you have to follow the sahabas and certain wives to rely on to pass on the hadith. Here lies the problem, because we know what sahabas and the wives did and after the holy prophet (sawas) and yet you still follow them even though their bad actions are written in your own sahih books. 

 

As for contradictions in books, you guys are not free from it either. i will just give you one example from your sahih books to prove my case. 

 

حَدَّثَنِي مَحْمُودٌ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ، أَخْبَرَنَا مَعْمَرٌ، عَنِ ابْنِ طَاوُسٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، قَالَ ‏"‏ قَالَ سُلَيْمَانُ بْنُ دَاوُدَ ـ عَلَيْهِمَا السَّلاَمُ ـ لأَطُوفَنَّ اللَّيْلَةَ بِمِائَةِ امْرَأَةٍ، تَلِدُ كُلُّ امْرَأَةٍ غُلاَمًا، يُقَاتِلُ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ، فَقَالَ لَهُ الْمَلَكُ قُلْ إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ‏.‏ فَلَمْ يَقُلْ وَنَسِيَ، فَأَطَافَ بِهِنَّ، وَلَمْ تَلِدْ مِنْهُنَّ إِلاَّ امْرَأَةٌ نِصْفَ إِنْسَانٍ ‏"‏‏.‏ قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ لَوْ قَالَ إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَمْ يَحْنَثْ، وَكَانَ أَرْجَى لِحَاجَتِهِ ‏"‏‏.‏
Narrated Abu Huraira: (The Prophet) Solomon son of (the Prophet) David said, "Tonight I will go round (i.e. have sexual relations with) one hundred women (my wives) everyone of whom will deliver a male child who will fight in Allah's Cause." On that an Angel said to him, "Say: 'If Allah will.' " But Solomon did not say it and forgot to say it. Then he had sexual relations with them but none of them delivered any child except one who delivered a half person. The Prophet (s) said, "If Solomon had said: 'If Allah will,' Allah would have fulfilled his (above) desire and that saying would have made him more hopeful." (Sahih Bukhari)


حَدَّثَنَا مُعَلَّى بْنُ أَسَدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا وُهَيْبٌ، عَنْ أَيُّوبَ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ نَبِيَّ اللَّهِ سُلَيْمَانَ ـ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ ـ كَانَ لَهُ سِتُّونَ امْرَأَةً فَقَالَ لأَطُوفَنَّ اللَّيْلَةَ عَلَى نِسَائِي، فَلْتَحْمِلْنَ كُلُّ امْرَأَةٍ وَلْتَلِدْنَ فَارِسًا يُقَاتِلُ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ، فَطَافَ عَلَى نِسَائِهِ، فَمَا وَلَدَتْ مِنْهُنَّ إِلاَّ امْرَأَةٌ وَلَدَتْ شِقَّ غُلاَمٍ‏.‏ قَالَ نَبِيُّ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ لَوْ كَانَ سُلَيْمَانُ اسْتَثْنَى لَحَمَلَتْ كُلُّ امْرَأَةٍ مِنْهُنَّ، فَوَلَدَتْ فَارِسًا يُقَاتِلُ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ ‏"‏‏.‏
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Prophet Solomon who had sixty wives, once said, "Tonight I will have sexual relation (sleep) with all my wives so that each of them will become pregnant and bring forth (a boy who will grow into) a cavalier and will fight in Allah's Cause." So he slept with his wives and none of them (conceived and) delivered (a child) except one who brought a half (body) boy (deformed). Allah's Prophet said, "If Solomon had said; 'If Allah Will,' then each of those women would have delivered a (would-be) cavalier to fight in Allah's Cause." (Sahih Bukhari)

 

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الْيَمَانِ، أَخْبَرَنَا شُعَيْبٌ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الزِّنَادِ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ الأَعْرَجِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ قَالَ سُلَيْمَانُ لأَطُوفَنَّ اللَّيْلَةَ عَلَى تِسْعِينَ امْرَأَةً، كُلُّهُنَّ تَأْتِي بِفَارِسٍ يُجَاهِدُ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ‏.‏ فَقَالَ لَهُ صَاحِبُهُ إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ‏.‏ فَلَمْ يَقُلْ إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ‏.‏ فَطَافَ عَلَيْهِنَّ جَمِيعًا، فَلَمْ تَحْمِلْ مِنْهُنَّ إِلاَّ امْرَأَةٌ وَاحِدَةٌ، جَاءَتْ بِشِقِّ رَجُلٍ، وَايْمُ الَّذِي نَفْسُ مُحَمَّدٍ بِيَدِهِ لَوْ قَالَ إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ‏.‏ لَجَاهَدُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فُرْسَانًا أَجْمَعُونَ ‏"‏‏.‏
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Messenger (s) said, "(The Prophet) Solomon once said, 'Tonight I will sleep with ninety women, each of whom will bring forth a (would-be) cavalier who will fight in Allah's Cause." On this, his companion said to him, "Say: Allah willing!" But he did not say Allah willing. Solomon then slept with all the women, but none of them became pregnant but one woman who later delivered a halfman. By Him in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, if he (Solomon) had said, 'Allah willing' (all his wives would have brought forth boys) and they would have fought in Allah's Cause as cavaliers. " (Sahih Bukhari)


وَحَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبَّادٍ، وَابْنُ أَبِي عُمَرَ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لاِبْنِ أَبِي عُمَرَ - قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ حُجَيْرٍ، عَنْ طَاوُسٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏"‏ قَالَ سُلَيْمَانُ بْنُ دَاوُدَ نَبِيُّ اللَّهِ لأَطُوفَنَّ اللَّيْلَةَ عَلَى سَبْعِينَ امْرَأَةً كُلُّهُنَّ تَأْتِي بِغُلاَمٍ يُقَاتِلُ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ لَهُ صَاحِبُهُ أَوِ الْمَلَكُ قُلْ إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ ‏.‏ فَلَمْ يَقُلْ وَنَسِيَ ‏.‏ فَلَمْ تَأْتِ وَاحِدَةٌ مِنْ نِسَائِهِ إِلاَّ وَاحِدَةٌ جَاءَتْ بِشِقِّ غُلاَمٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ وَلَوْ قَالَ إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ ‏.‏ لَمْ يَحْنَثْ وَكَانَ دَرَكًا لَهُ فِي حَاجَتِهِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Prophet (s) as saying that Sulaiman b. Dawud, the Messenger of Allah, observed: I will have an intercourse with seventy wives during the night; all of them will give birth to a male child who will fight in the cause of Allah. His companion or the ang I said to him: Say," If God wills." But he (Hadrat Sulaimin) did not say so, and he forgot it. And none of his wives gave birth to a child, but one who gave birth to a premature child. Allah's Messenger (s) said: Had he said Insha' Allah (if God so will). he would not have failed and his desire would have been materialised. (Sahih Muslim)

 

So how many wives did prophet solomon have? 100 or 60 or 90 or 70

It's not like there were different companions narrating a different events. All four hadith i have posted are coming from the same person and talking about the same event. 

 

See the top of this post brother. Yes, there is no doubt that Sunnis have isolated cases of contradictions in their hadiths. However, we do not have four volumes of contradictions. 

This is off-topic, but the correct version of the narration is 90. Al Bukhari says so if you go to the original reference. The other numbers are mistakes from the narrators and not contradictions from the Prophet peace be upon him. 

 

1 hour ago, Haydar Husayn said:

The argument about the proportion of hadiths explicitly narrated from the Prophet (s) is a really bad one. Of course the proportion will be lower in Shia books, since we accept narrations from the Imams as well. However, they received their knowledge from the Prophet (s). Where do you think Muhammad al-Baqir and Jafar as-Sadiq got their knowledge from, which allowed them to be recognised as such great scholars? You don't think it's likely that this knowledge passed through the chain from the Prophet Muhammad (s) through Ali (a) to Husayn (a) to Ali Zayn al-Abideen (a)? Even ordinary Muslims learn about Islam from their fathers, but such people didn't teach their children?

 

The Shias had access to the Sunni hadiths as you can see in Amali Ibn Babawayh, so this has nothing to do with proportions. Shias we purposefully selective with what they decided to preserve and they purposefully did not record hadiths that went to the Prophet peace be upon him. If this was a matter of proportion, then we would have had tens of thousands of prophetic hadiths in Shia books and millions of the hadiths of the Imams. 

See my previous comment to Gerashi in this post above please.

 

1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

There are false hadith in Shia books and false hadith in Sunni books. 

Both claim the source for their hadith is Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h)

I guess you never heard of the 'Golden Chain' which is well know amoung Shia.

Imam Sadiq(a.s), when he narrates a hadith says many times, 'I heard it from my father, from his father, from his father, ....from Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h). 

So most of the Hadith narrated by Imam of Ahl Al Bayt(a.s) are actually from Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h). 

So there goes your argument. 

The differences between Sunni and Shia when it comes to hadith is basically one difference. 

We believe that Imam of Ahl Al Bayt(a.s) are a primary source. In other words if we can reliably trace a hadith back to one of the 12 Imams(a.s), it is the same for us as if the Hadith was from Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h). 

And if you want to disregard hadith from Ahl Al Bayt(a.s), you would have to throw out much of what is in Sunni books since there are many hadith from Ahl Al Bayt(a.s) in books of Sunni hadith, especially in Malik ibn Anas, Abu Hanifa, etc since they were students of Imam Sadiq(a.s). Why go to the students when you can go to the teacher ? That is what you should be asking yourself. 

 

 

First of all, please see my response to Gerashi above within this post. 

Also, please try to read my posts carefully. I never said that we should not take narrations from Ahl Al Bayt. I literally said:  We also have many narrations from Ahl Al Bayt, and they do not contain contradictions. 

My issue is with the narrations from Ahl Al Bayt that have been documented by Kulayni and Ibn Babawayh. 

I repeat: My issue is not with Ahl Al Bayt! My issue is with the misplaced trust in some random guys called Kulayni and Ibn Babawayh that you know nothing about!

 

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32 minutes ago, submitter71 said:

You have demonstrated that a narration contradicts the Quran. You are free to reject it.

Salam,

If Sahih Bukhari to sunni's is the first book after the Qur'an and one can easily find two narrations that aren't in line with Qur'an nor logic. Then what does the term Sahih actually mean?

Weren't these collections (Bukhari & Muslim) called Sahih meaning so that one can trust them blindly?

You should re-investigate the entire collection hadith for hadith in that case to find out what is Sahih or not.

Furthermore, most of the narrators are nawasib so that's another thing why I reject these collections in the first place.
 

32 minutes ago, submitter71 said:

Doing so does not take you out of the fold of Sunni Islam. 

I actually never was a sunni. I didn't understood the term from day one as it actually doesn't cover all aspects of believing in Islam which is another topic.

It's a political term used by the Umayyads to distinguish themselves from the Shia of Imam Ali a.s. or the Rafidhi which was another nickname for them.

Not that the term Shia is a better coverage but if that means I'm not a sunni then call me Shia.

 

 

Edited by Faruk

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9 hours ago, Wisdom007 said:

even to this day there is NO CLEAR EVIDENCE of Ali ra declaring that He is a divinely appointed imam the main pillar of 12ites

Not even to this day, eh? Then what was Ghadir Khumm? Isn't it in Sahih Bukhari that Muhammad (saws) anointed Ali (as) as mawla of the Ummah? Our Prophet (saws) as stated in Surah Najm, does not speak out of his desires but when he speaks, it's a revelation from Allah (swt). If that's the case, then anointing of Ali (as) as mawla was decreed by Al Haqq (swt). 

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2 minutes ago, Irfani313 said:

No, Aesha RA didn't spend 9 years with the Prophet S. 

Actual number is more like less than 8 months in total.

Prophet S married Ayesha 1st or 2nd year of Hijra. Prophet S also had 7-8 other wives during his 10 years in Madina. Just giving each wife her equal share of time, would leave just one year of equivalent time with Ayesha.

Add to this; during his 10 years of life in Madina, Prophet S had to defend Madina in more than 90 war expeditions. Prophet S also had three major travels back to Makkah, one that ended in Sulh Hudaybya, one during his Hajj, and one during the conquest of Makkah. Out of the non sleeping hours of the Prophet S, he also spent time in the Masjid, preached to various tribes, attended to the affairs of the government, and so on.

This is a BIG myth that Prophet S spent 9 years of his life with Ayesha. Still she came up with some 2000 hadith, some of which are so sadistically perverted that these sounded more like hadith forged in Pompeii.  

WallahoAlam!

I wish I had 2 extra set of arms, so I could give your post 6 thumbs up.

Btw i dont know how to do ghusl so brb going to ask a na mahram to bathe in front of me

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2 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Not even to this day, eh? Then what was Ghadir Khumm? Isn't it in Sahih Bukhari that Muhammad (saws) anointed Ali (as) as mawla of the Ummah? Our Prophet (saws) as stated in Surah Najm, does not speak out of his desires but when he speaks, it's a revelation from Allah (swt). If that's the case, then anointing of Ali (as) as mawla was decreed by Al Haqq (swt). 

Ghadeer khum has nothing to do with what you dream of, mawla has many meanings and it's nothing to do with leadership nor was it a declaration of such, and NO it's not in bukhari that prophet saw anointed Ali ra, no smoking gun there, as explained it was for love of Ali ra, the soldiers were complaining.

yes our great prophet saw speaks the truth and yes He saw speaks not from His own desire but when He speaks, it's a revelation from Allah swt.

our prophet saw never anointed Ali ra on ghadeer khum for leadership nor did Almighty Allah swt 

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1 hour ago, Wisdom007 said:

Ghadeer khum has nothing to do with what you dream of, mawla has many meanings and it's nothing to do with leadership nor was it a declaration of such, and NO it's not in bukhari that prophet saw anointed Ali ra, no smoking gun there, as explained it was for love of Ali ra, the soldiers were complaining.

yes our great prophet saw speaks the truth and yes He saw speaks not from His own desire but when He speaks, it's a revelation from Allah swt.

our prophet saw never anointed Ali ra on ghadeer khum for leadership nor did Almighty Allah swt 

If the Holy Prophet didnt anointed Hz Ali (as). He certainly anointed a family member.

Narrated in Sahih Bukhari. I am leaving you 2 weighty things, The Holy Quran and my Ahlul Bait.........

Quaran and Sunnah is the lesser tradition from Imam Maliks Muwatta

Questions i would ask why would any organisation promote the lesser tradition over the weightier one.

Sunnis shouldnt call themselves Sunnis since they have been instructed to hold tight to the Ahlul Bait. 

Where did the obvious get so lost

Edited by A true Sunni

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