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Islandsandmirrors

Permissibility of Sunni-Shia marriages.

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I've read something from Sistani, that a Shia man/woman may marry a non-Shia man/woman, but if one fears being mislead, it's not allowed.

What does it mean to "fear being mislead?" 

So I'm with my non-Shia guy and we don't have any immediate plans to get married right now but we have talked about it several times. We discuss the differences between Sunnis and Shias and he believes what he believes and I believe what I believe. He quotes Sunni Hadiths to back-up certain issues that we disagree on, and I back up my beliefs with Shia Hadiths. We respect each others differences and don't try to change each other, but would the example above constitute "fear of being mislead"? And if so, can you please explain why? 

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I couldn't tell you what he referred to "mislead" as meaning, but I can offer my insight.

I suspect it means if your non Shia man would try to impose his perspective/Sunni beliefs over you and perhaps use this difference/your lack of coming to his side to be your fault in why the marriage isn't harmonious...  Which I would agree is something you ought to avoid.

I'm not entirely opposed to intersect marriages unless both are resolute in their ways, or both equally uncaring. 

What would matter more are how you both feel on significant issues such as how the children would be raised, and if whether Sunni/Shia would be their indoctrination.  If you both don't feel insecure or fear the other following another sect etc. etc.

Of course, the other meaning of misled, could also mean you starting to understand the Sunni perspective and change your view on being a Shia?  But would that imply all Sunni's are grossly misled ?  Are they going straight to hell if so?

 

In my opinion, either of you being strong in your faith is good, and we have this great verse (call me a naive idealist):

4:59

O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.

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This respect will remain same after marriage too ? That is a question.

Now come to practical as i am married man. Until we not taste something we will remain excited for it. After that taste we realize that it was a mistake or not.

Maktab-e-Ahle Tashio and Maktab-e-Ahle Tassano are not just two sects of one religion , but at present situation they are actually two different religion. Due to there Ideologies. It was sect of one religion but practically at present it is no more.

My wife was Sunni before but once she spend 5-6 years in studies and compare Sunni and Shia Maktab , she realize that Ahle Tashio is more clear and more in depth and more organized then Sunni Schools. Later she decided to start following Maktab-e-Ahle Tashio. Still my in-laws are Sunni and there is no such problem i faced so far with them bcoz .... Here is the keyword. Bcoz they all are not aware of there School teachings. They are more involved in earth matters then religious matters, i think due to that they have no problem with me. Bcoz they don't even know what there religion is.

So if your Boy's family is also dumb like my in-laws then may be you can survive and spend good life. Rest is upto you. Maktab-e-Ahle Tashio never object in intersect marriage bcoz we are not Takfiris. For us all Muslims who are reciting Shahadah are Muslims and there respect is required.

Edited by alirex

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2 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Are all shia men on earth dead or deformed, that you want to be with an omar lover?

Maybe because Shia men have never approached me?!? 

Have you ever thought that some Sunnis are actually open minded to the fact that they are not on the right path?

Drop the preconceived notions, please. 

And to answer your question, there are absolutely no suitable Shia men where I live since they do not want to marry me. (I've known them since childhood and they want to marry someone whom they've met recently, and without their parents suggestions. That, and the rest are too old for me.) Shia men I know don't exactly have the best Akhlaq and I'm not in love with any of them.

Even if any Shia man stepped up, I will remain with this man. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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1 hour ago, alirex said:

This respect will remain same after marriage too ? That is a question.

Now come to practical as i am married man. Until we not taste something we will remain excited for it. After that taste we realize that it was a mistake or not.

Maktab-e-Ahle Tashio and Maktab-e-Ahle Tassano are not just two sects of one religion , but at present situation they are actually two different religion. Due to there Ideologies. It was sect of one religion but practically at present it is no more.

My wife was Sunni before but once she spend 5-6 years in studies and compare Sunni and Shia Maktab , she realize that Ahle Tashio is more clear and more in depth and more organized then Sunni Schools. Later she decided to start following Maktab-e-Ahle Tashio. Still my in-laws are Sunni and there is no such problem i faced so far with them bcoz .... Here is the keyword. Bcoz they all are not aware of there School teachings. They are more involved in earth matters then religious matters, i think due to that they have no problem with me. Bcoz they don't even know what there religion is.

So if your Boy's family is also dumb like my in-laws then may be you can survive and spend good life. Rest is upto you. Maktab-e-Ahle Tashio never object in intersect marriage bcoz we are not Takfiris. For us all Muslims who are reciting Shahadah are Muslims and there respect is required.

 

Thanks for your reply. :) My boy's family doesn't follow a mazhab and my boyfriend doesn't consider himself "Sunni", just Muslim. He believes that Shahada is enough. I guess that could mean his family doesn't know about the various Sunni schools. Or care for them, at least. 

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1 minute ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

 

Thanks for your reply. :) My boy's family doesn't follow a mazhab and my boyfriend doesn't consider himself "Sunni", just Muslim. He believes that Shahada is enough. I guess that could mean his family doesn't know about the various Sunni schools. Or care for them, at least. 

Ok , i guess you too don't care for your school of thought. Anyways best of luck.

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1 minute ago, alirex said:

Ok , i guess you too don't care for your school of thought. Anyways best of luck.

I was trying to confirm what you were saying about my boy's family being openminded. 

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39 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

 

Thanks for your reply. :) My boy's family doesn't follow a mazhab and my boyfriend doesn't consider himself "Sunni", just Muslim. He believes that Shahada is enough. I guess that could mean his family doesn't know about the various Sunni schools. Or care for them, at least. 

How does he pray?

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21 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I pity you

^This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. 

Rude. And disrespectful.

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18 minutes ago, E.L King said:

How does he pray?

Since he found it in a Hadith, he prays with his arms to his chest. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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5 minutes ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

The biggest problem will be the kids. What will they be? And don't forget, you're marrying the family not the person. His family might take issue with you being Shi'a. 

I really wouldn't encourage this, but this is your life and your choice. 

We've talked about that and have decided that we are both going to teach what we believe, but the children would have to choose later. 

His family doesn't care that I'm Shia. They have a lot of Shia family friends lol. 

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Have you guys met face to face or on the net ? 

Take your time either way . No one is Shia or Sunni just because their ancestors or parents are. Just thoughtless copy cats most of us are even if our parents feed us with their own perception of Islam .

If most of us were born to Japanese parents we would have no religion, unless we investigate in it like reverts do.

So I suggest both of you forget that you are Sunni or Shia and start as Muslim, and study religion from scratch from a non biased view. 

Just imagine you both are Japanese with no religion, and now looking for the best life style that will lead you to the straight path. Will you become Sunni or Shia straight away? Or will you investigate which is the wisest and most intelligent path?

Just like you both would want to buy a house, would you just buy a house without thinking simply because the real estate agent told you so? 

You will probably spend months investigating together which house is the MOST appropriate for you both to live in and take ALL ASPECTS of the house under consideration.

Atleast do the same for the religion you consciously choose before choosing a spouse.

Edited by certainclarity

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12 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I've read something from Sistani, that a Shia man/woman may marry a non-Shia man/woman, but if one fears being mislead, it's not allowed.

What does it mean to "fear being mislead?" 

So I'm with my non-Shia guy and we don't have any immediate plans to get married right now but we have talked about it several times. We discuss the differences between Sunnis and Shias and he believes what he believes and I believe what I believe. He quotes Sunni Hadiths to back-up certain issues that we disagree on, and I back up my beliefs with Shia Hadiths. We respect each others differences and don't try to change each other, but would the example above constitute "fear of being mislead"? And if so, can you please explain why? 

Have you ever come across hadiths about relationships before marriage? To me there is a serious problem if a Muslim woman is openly calling someone who isn't their husband her 'guy' and 'boyfriend', and then you say you don't have any immediate plans to get married?! Where in Sunnism or Shiism do you think that is allowed?

I wouldn't advise a Shia woman to marry a Sunni, because ultimately the father is the head of the household, and will have more influence over his wife and children. What if he becomes more religious when he gets older, and less tolerant of you being Shia? It is the father who has the religious obligation to teach his children about Islam, and they are more likely to follow his way of praying. Anything is possible of course, but at best they are likely to grow up confused.

What about when you go on hajj? You might want to look into tawaf an-nisa and the implications it might have for you.

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22 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Have you ever come across hadiths about relationships before marriage? To me there is a serious problem if a Muslim woman is openly calling someone who isn't their husband her 'guy' and 'boyfriend', and then you say you don't have any immediate plans to get married?! Where in Sunnism or Shiism do you think that is allowed?

I wouldn't advise a Shia woman to marry a Sunni, because ultimately the father is the head of the household, and will have more influence over his wife and children. What if he becomes more religious when he gets older, and less tolerant of you being Shia? It is the father who has the religious obligation to teach his children about Islam, and they are more likely to follow his way of praying. Anything is possible of course, but at best they are likely to grow up confused.

What about when you go on hajj? You might want to look into tawaf an-nisa and the implications it might have for you.

What I mean by no immediate plans to get married is that we are taking our time with this to really get to know each other. We've set a timeline to be engaged by sometime next year. We've only known each for almost five months, together for three. Marrying someone you've known for less than a year may be disastrous. 

And this "man being the head of the household" is rediculous since I know woman are raising the children and children follow their mothers since they spend more time with them. 

I'm going to hajj next year with my family inshallah.

 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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2 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

What I mean by no immediate plans to get married is that we are taking our time with this to really get to know each other. We've set a timeline to be engaged by sometime next year. We've only known each for almost five months, together for three. Marrying someone you've known for less than a year may be disastrous. 

Getting to know someone for years is no guarantee of anything either. Just look at the divorce rates at the moment. There are even people that live together for years, have children, get married, and then divorce a few years later. What a successful marriage needs is hard work, perseverance, and, for Muslims, putting Islam at the heart of it. That is going to be more difficult if people have different ideas of what Islam is. More dangerously, if either spouse becomes more religious, and hence more distinctly Sunni or Shia, that could lead to marital problems. So to some extend you will be limited in how much you can 'grow' religiously within the marriage, when marriage is supposed to be a means of becoming more religious.

One of the issues with becoming too involved with someone before marriage, is it becomes very difficult to make rational decisions about what would be better in the long term. Psychologically and emotionally speaking, it's very hard to break off a relationship when there is nothing wrong with it at present, and all the problems are likely to be in the future. It's easy to tell yourself that everything will be fine, and 'love will conquer all', but if you speak to anyone who is married they will tell you that this isn't enough to sustain a marriage in the long term.

In your position, I would pray to Allah to give you what is best for you, and if this marriage isn't best for you, then to stop it from happening.

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45 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

What I mean by no immediate plans to get married is that we are taking our time with this to really get to know each other. We've set a timeline to be engaged by sometime next year. We've only known each for almost five months, together for three. Marrying someone you've known for less than a year may be disastrous. 

And this "man being the head of the household" is rediculous since I know woman are raising the children and children follow their mothers since they spend more time with them. 

I'm going to hajj next year with my family inshallah.

 

Sister, without preforming Tawaf Al-Nisa, husband and wife are haram for each other. As far as I know such a ritual does not exist in Sunnism.

 

 

 

Edited by E.L King

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53 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

And this "man being the head of the household" is rediculous since I know woman are raising the children and children follow their mothers since they spend more time with them. 

I didn't say that there aren't women who raise the children and take care of their Islamic education, but that's not the ideal in Islam, and you have no guarantee that this will happen. I think you said in one of your other posts on this forum that you love Imam Mahdi (a). Do you really want to risk your children growing up without that love for him, and the Ahlulbayt (a) in general? Do you want to be married to someone who might one day tell you that this Imam that love never existed?

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17 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

I didn't say that there aren't women who raise the children and take care of their Islamic education, but that's not the ideal in Islam, and you have no guarantee that this will happen. I think you said in one of your other posts on this forum that you love Imam Mahdi (a). Do you really want to risk your children growing up without that love for him, and the Ahlulbayt (a) in general? Do you want to be married to someone who might one day tell you that this Imam that love never existed?

Well I am going to school and if I plan to have children, my mother has offered to help. I don't understand what you mean by "not ideal in Islam." What exactly isn't ideal? 

We have agreed that we will teach the children about the Ahlul Bayt (AS). I wouldn't be with him if this wasn't a guarantee.

 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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30 minutes ago, E.L King said:

Sister, without preforming Tawaf Al-Nisa, husband and wife are haram for each other. As far as I know such a ritual does not exist in Sunnism.

 

 

 

I've never heard of Tawaf an Nisa before. Where is this done? I thought you just had to get nikah performed to be halal for someone. 

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3 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I've never heard of Tawaf an Nisa before. Where is this done? I thought you just had to get nikah performed to be halal for someone. 

Yes, you are married after Nikah. I am speaking about a Hajj ritual called Tawaf Al-Nisa, if one spouse doesn't perform it in Hajj, he or she will not be halal for the other, until they complete this ritual.

Edited by E.L King

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5 minutes ago, E.L King said:

Yes, you are married after Nikah. I am speaking about a Hajj ritual called Tawaf Al-Nisa, if one spouse doesn't perform it in Hajj, he or she will not be halal for the other, until they complete this ritual.

Well I'll just have to explain this to him and he will comply inshallah. I have to gather more knowledge on this issue so any info on the subject will be appreciated. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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Sister, I considered marrying a sunni brother, but when I thought about my children being raised as shia, I politely declined. 

I am a divorced lady with 2 children from my previous marriage, and like yourself, I have also experienced this issue with shia men not stepping up.  If I was sunni, I would have been married years ago.

Please think carefully about the upbringing of your children.  That's all I'm saying.  And all the best sister. 

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1 hour ago, Pearl178 said:

At this point, there is no guarantee of anything. Because once reality hits in, and once those children come, his words will will be a mere memory and wont mean anything. 

My eldest brother was in a long term relationship with a Sunni girl. When the time came and he wanted to propose, my parents were concerned about her being a Sunni and so my mum brought the girl to the house and the girl was extremely polite and she assured my mum, gave her a million promises that the kids will be raised Shia and she she said she won't interfere in this at all. She assured my mum that she herself will bring the kids to Majlis. And my mum, being the overly emotional person that she is, believed her and fell in love with her and agreed right away for my brother to marry her and assured my dad as well that the girl is sincere.

Long story short , 5 years later with two kids,,,those kids have never stepped foot into a majlis, dont know what Ashura or who Imam Hussain is and pray with their arms folded without a turbah. Sunnis I find have a very strong personality and somehow ALWAYS get the kids to follow their way. My sister in law is not religious at all, but she wont allow the kids to follow our way despite all her promises and she knew that we had only agreed to her marrying my brother because of her assurances and promises. And to be honest at this point nobody can even say anything to her. We are all scared of her including my mum. 

So please don't fall into this trap because they will say anything, literally,  to keep you and to keep the relationship going . There is NO guarantee of anything.

I pray that whatever is best for you happens.

I have a few such stories from my extended family, with mixed results. Although there's little guarantee which side the children would eventually take when they grow up, it is usually the mother's influence that's the key factor in shaping children's belief system.

A somewhat odd case: my uncle likewise married a Sunni college sweetheart, they have three adult sons, and despite their Sunni mother's full permission to raise them Shia and there having been no attempt at her part to raise them as Sunni, two of them eventually went the Sunni way. 

Children of Sunni-Shia marriages show their own independence in the path they'd finally choose.

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My wife was raised in Jordan to a Sunni father and a secular Shia mother (like, Syrian secular - it's a long story) - so needless to say there was a lot of 'sunni' in her. Maybe I was lucky, but she was well on her way to deciding what was the truth, and she didn't agree with a lot of sunni ideas (the succession to the Prophet pbuh, for one), by the time I met her. At the time she was calling herself 'sufi' which sounds funny now, but I realize now that at the time it was a good bridge into loving the Prophet (pbuh) and his family. 

Needless to say, she prays with her hands open, going to majaalis even when I'm not around, and had me recite dua kumayl during the period she went into labour. She calls herself shia too (which is important, for whatever reason). 

There are still things we disagree one (she doesn't want to talk about Aisha - like, at all; and she has trouble with the marja system), but I realize that beliefs are never 100% compatible. As long as the major things match, it should be okay.

That said, if a sunni denies any aspect of the rights of the family of the prophet (wilayah, fadak, etc), then stay away. It's not worth it. If they side with the Imam Ali (a.s) then you can build a foundation. Otherwise everything is dust.  

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1 hour ago, Marbles said:

Children of Sunni-Shia marriages show their own independence in the path they'd finally choose.

I like this bit :) probably parents of these kind of kids barely know or read anything themselves, and mainly cultural muslims on both sides...lol, To be quite direct, there is no such thing as pure sunni or pure shia, it is mainly what I think sunni should be like, and what I think Shia should be like lol, and this is what is fed to the poor kids...

at least these kids get to seek out the truth for themselves.

Without being fed misconceptions from both sides...

Edited by certainclarity

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6 hours ago, Pearl178 said:

At this point, there is no guarantee of anything. Because once reality hits in, and once those children come, his words will will be a mere memory and wont mean anything. 

My eldest brother was in a long term relationship with a Sunni girl. When the time came and he wanted to propose, my parents were concerned about her being a Sunni and so my mum brought the girl to the house and the girl was extremely polite and she assured my mum, gave her a million promises that the kids will be raised Shia and she she said she won't interfere in this at all. She assured my mum that she herself will bring the kids to Majlis. And my mum, being the overly emotional person that she is, believed her and fell in love with her and agreed right away for my brother to marry her and assured my dad as well that the girl is sincere.

Long story short , 5 years later with two kids,,,those kids have never stepped foot into a majlis, dont know what Ashura or who Imam Hussain is and pray with their arms folded without a turbah. Sunnis I find have a very strong personality and somehow ALWAYS get the kids to follow their way. My sister in law is not religious at all, but she wont allow the kids to follow our way despite all her promises and she knew that we had only agreed to her marrying my brother because of her assurances and promises. And to be honest at this point nobody can even say anything to her. We are all scared of her including my mum. 

So please don't fall into this trap because they will say anything, literally,  to keep you and to keep the relationship going . There is NO guarantee of anything.

I pray that whatever is best for you happens.

Don't know how to edit my post but it should say "8* years later" not 5 

 

5 hours ago, Marbles said:

Haha I love it!

LOL I know right! 

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9 hours ago, Pearl178 said:

At this point, there is no guarantee of anything. Because once reality hits in, and once those children come, his words will will be a mere memory and wont mean anything. 

My eldest brother was in a long term relationship with a Sunni girl. When the time came and he wanted to propose, my parents were concerned about her being a Sunni and so my mum brought the girl to the house and the girl was extremely polite and she assured my mum, gave her a million promises that the kids will be raised Shia and she she said she won't interfere in this at all. She assured my mum that she herself will bring the kids to Majlis. And my mum, being the overly emotional person that she is, believed her and fell in love with her and agreed right away for my brother to marry her and assured my dad as well that the girl is sincere.

Long story short , 5 years later with two kids,,,those kids have never stepped foot into a majlis, dont know what Ashura or who Imam Hussain is and pray with their arms folded without a turbah. Sunnis I find have a very strong personality and somehow ALWAYS get the kids to follow their way. My sister in law is not religious at all, but she wont allow the kids to follow our way despite all her promises and she knew that we had only agreed to her marrying my brother because of her assurances and promises. And to be honest at this point nobody can even say anything to her. We are all scared of her including my mum. 

So please don't fall into this trap because they will say anything, literally,  to keep you and to keep the relationship going . There is NO guarantee of anything.

I pray that whatever is best for you happens.

Right observation but wrong analysis sister.

First on Sunnis strong mindedness - What you called 'Sunni strong mindedness', Quran calls it 'seals on their hearts'.

Sunnis are arrogant, let me say this, but arrogant like Iblees is, like Pharaoh were, like Umer was, like Yazeed was, like the army of Umer Ibn Saad was in Karbala, like Haroon was, like Saddam was, like Saudis are. This arrogance stops them from seeing the truth and accepting the guidance. They go on issues round and round and after seeing million proofs, still stick to their dogma. 

Part of the reason of Sunni mule-headedness is their doctrine which takes away any critical thinking from Sunnis. You could notice it in how a Shia is brought up and how a Sunni is brought up, In Shia theology, questioning, debate, counter arguments, proofs, and reasoning is appreciated and promoted. In Sunni theology, questions are suppressed, critical thinking is called kufr, reasoning is ridiculed. Pick a random religious Sunni and his / her first two sentences out of mouth would tell you this.

On Children mostly picking Sunni religion in Shia / Sunni marriages - Main reason is that children are weak minded, their intellect is in transition, avoid situations where they are against the grain, shy away from confrontation where ideas are thought through, basically they are the complete manifestation of lazy side of humanity when it comes to making right choices. Hence you see, you won't find them tired of TV or Games for hours but would come back complaining of headache after 20 minutes of reading. Hence children follow the religion of majority because it is easier. Its the same here in West, where kids of namesake Muslim families live a dual life, Muslim at home and agnostic outside among their friends. Here kids don't pick Sunni or Shia, they just abandon religion in favor of majority.

Side note- may be its the curse of Allah swt on those who sell out their faith and marry a lover of Aisha or Umer. Allah swt takes away that satisfaction from their hearts of seeing their kids growing into momins. May be!

 

 

Edited by Irfani313

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5 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

First on Sunnis strong mindedness - What you called 'Sunni strong mindedness', Quran calls it 'seals on their hearts'.

Sunnis are arrogant, let me say this, but arrogant like Iblees is, like Pharaoh were, like Umer was, like Yazeed was, like the army of Umer Ibn Saad was in Karbala, like Haroon was, like Saddam was, like Saudis are. This arrogance stops them from seeing the truth and accepting the guidance. They go on issues round and round and after seeing million proofs, still stick to their dogma. 

I couldn't think of a better way of explaining them. Excellent 

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