Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
beardedbaker

Show me the money

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

In the absence of a powerful Shia lobby that can fund a revivalist reformist religious project, the religious establishment must open its books to independent  financial auditors. They must publish their findings to enable scrutiny and allow us to challenge the way religious funds are spent [or not spent]. I will post later what i mean by this reformist project.

Until that time, when we move on from archaic practices and lack of transparency, i will boycott all khums payments, and suggest you do as well, instead spend it wisely to establish social justice in your local community.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, realizm said:

:salam:

Dear brother, is it the money you have an issue with, or what they do with it ?

و عليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against khums or zakat, God forbid, on the contrary, it's the perfect means to alleviate social injustice anywhere in the world. 

My issue is with the strategy and transparency , or in our case the lack of strategy and transparency, on how to best make use of that money, and if it. Is being spent, what and where and who is it being spent on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, beardedbaker said:

و عليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against khums or zakat, God forbid, on the contrary, it's the perfect means to alleviate social injustice anywhere in the world. 

My issue is with the strategy and transparency , or in our case the lack of strategy and transparency, on how to best make use of that money, and if it. Is being spent, what and where and who is it being spent on. 

Have you actually gone to a marja and asked him what they do with the money?

 

Hawza in Iran including stipend & accommodation for students - free

Hawza in Iraq including stipend & accommodation for students- free 

Support for all the refugees in Iraq - free

There is a long list of things that are done with the money.

These things will happen without your money so feel free to hold back. I bet no marja will lose sleep over it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Have you actually gone to a marja and asked him what they do with the money?

 

Hawza in Iran including stipend & accommodation for students - free

Hawza in Iraq including stipend & accommodation for students- free 

Support for all the refugees in Iraq - free

There is a long list of things that are done with the money.

These things will happen without your money so feel free to hold back. I bet no marja will lose sleep over it.

multiple (free) hospitals per marja, built from scratch. not even renovating existing premises.

improvements/ maintenance/ management of holy sites

multiple orphanages

you are right, the list is incredible. a lot of people in the west are whining why khums is not spent on their local communities, when the average westerner earns more in a month than people in impoverished countries earn in a year/ many years.

and besides, khums IS available for social projects in the west. all you have to do is literally walk into a mrjas offices.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, beardedbaker said:

Until that time, when we move on from archaic practices and lack of transparency, i will boycott all khums payments, and suggest you do as well, instead spend it wisely to establish social justice in your local community.

Do you have authority to call for this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, beardedbaker said:

In the absence of a powerful Shia lobby that can fund a revivalist reformist religious project, the religious establishment must open its books to independent  financial auditors. They must publish their findings to enable scrutiny and allow us to challenge the way religious funds are spent [or not spent]. I will post later what i mean by this reformist project.

Until that time, when we move on from archaic practices and lack of transparency, i will boycott all khums payments, and suggest you do as well, instead spend it wisely to establish social justice in your local community.

Sometimes we think of doing good and we really will to do it, for instance making a great lasting change like changing the archaic ways and using more efficient ones, forming Shia lobbies and ... , these are not bad by their nature and shaytan know this, and here is his masterpiece, misguiding people through good deeds,  what you said is a plan of shaytan instilled in your mind and you think it is yours, you want to change, so... boycott Khums, it is like being thirsty but forbidding yourself from drinking water yet thinking about satisfying your thirst . You can't achieve a better result by ignoring something which is wajib, wajib based on Quran itself: Surah Al-anfal verse 41 mentions the importance of it, Those who ignored wajibs hoping of gaining better things, always failed, a good example is Saqifa, they didn't obey the prophet(sawa) hoping others would be better caliphs but everything ended up to disaster which even now we are dealing with it. Examples are beyond counting.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, beardedbaker said:

Until that time, when we move on from archaic practices and lack of transparency, i will boycott all khums payments, and suggest you do as well, instead spend it wisely to establish social justice in your local community.

There is a popular saying which says: "Two wrongs can never make a right". One cannot boycott an obligation such as Khums etc simply because its collector mismanages it rather one gives it to another qualified personnel instead. Likewise, our duty as a Muslim is to give out our portion of the Khums to a qualified Marja and I believe it is never our religious obligation to know where it is being spent.

Besides, there are several projects such as those mentioned above on which the Khums is spent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, beardedbaker said:

In the absence of a powerful Shia lobby that can fund a revivalist reformist religious project, the religious establishment must open its books to independent  financial auditors. They must publish their findings to enable scrutiny and allow us to challenge the way religious funds are spent [or not spent]. I will post later what i mean by this reformist project.

Until that time, when we move on from archaic practices and lack of transparency, i will boycott all khums payments, and suggest you do as well, instead spend it wisely to establish social justice in your local community.

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum Brother BB

Brother how can you come to this decision on your own?  Do you have a fatwa from a marj3?  A portion of your khumus you can give it to a person you know who needs it.  But the other portion you must give it to the marj3. 

If you no longer want to give Khumus, that's on you and you are answerable to God.  But this is not something you can't suggest to other Shias not to do. As brother Magma asked above, and I will word it differently, who authorized you to make that call?

Be careful brother this is a grave mistake to make.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam,

Hmm I think for sure there is corruption to different extent in every major marjas office, someone out of all the workers are probably misusing the money. However, this is between Allah(SWT) and them, Allah(SWT) told us to pay khums and so we do to our best ability and if anyone in the marjas office misuse the money then that is on them and that does not mean that your reward for obeying Allah(SWT) will be any less or that His satisfaction with you will be any less.

And so, I do not believe you have the right or authority to deny paying khums. You can still, if your following seyyed Sistani, pay 10% to a poor sayyid/sayyida that you personally know and then the remaining 10% to the marjas office.

Either way, one cannot ever be truly sure that the money will be put to good use, even if you give it to someone you know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went to Iraq with a bunch of khojas once. We met sayed sistani. All the wealthy khojas had envelopes bursting with cash that they wanted to give to the sayeds office in person. we were taken to a small room next to the room we met sayed sistani in, and there must have been approx 20 or so men from his office who walked in, took each khoja to a corner and took the khums off them.

then they handed the khoja a receipt, stuffed the envelopes in their pockets and walked out the back door. the best bit? they called the khums "amanah" (amanat). one came up to me and asked me if I had any amanat for him. I pointed to my dad (my dad is called Amanat Ali) and said "take my dad if you want mate". 

I might not be the best witness, but I know a straight up jacking when I see one. so maybe OP has a point that there is corruption, which goes all the way to the top of the marjas offices. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I went to Iraq with a bunch of khojas once. We met sayed sistani. All the wealthy khojas had envelopes bursting with cash that they wanted to give to the sayeds office in person. we were taken to a small room next to the room we met sayed sistani in, and there must have been approx 20 or so men from his office who walked in, took each khoja to a corner and took the khums off them.

then they handed the khoja a receipt, stuffed the envelopes in their pockets and walked out the back door. the best bit? they called the khums "amanah" (amanat). one came up to me and asked me if I had any amanat for him. I pointed to my dad (my dad is called Amanat Ali) and said "take my dad if you want mate". 

I might not be the best witness, but I know a straight up jacking when I see one. so maybe OP has a point that there is corruption, which goes all the way to the top of the marjas offices. 

Yeah that is sad bro, but there will always be corruption until the time of his(ajf) return.

The way I see it is that I have done my part and I am not responsible for what they do. It is a kind of amanat I guess, but not to them but to Allah(SWT), fi sabilillah and whatever you give to Allah(SWT) He will give you back even more.

I remember the first time I paid khums, I just made a dua to Allah(SWT) and I stated that I do this only because I want Him to be happy with me and because He has ordered it of me, so in whatever way this money will be used, please be pleased with me, your slave and servant.

Bismillah:

[2:261]

The example of those who spend their wealth in the way of Allah is like a seed [of grain] which grows seven spikes; in each spike is a hundred grains. And Allah multiplies [His reward] for whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.

[2:262]

Those who spend their wealth in the way of Allah and then do not follow up what they have spent with reminders [of it] or [other] injury will have their reward with their Lord, and there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I won't suggest other people to boycott khums, I think there is nothing wrong with asking the marja's office to publish a yearly break up of the how the khums was distributed or spent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...