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Megatron

Matam

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Hello all. :)

We're edging closer to Muharam day by day, and it's the time when many Shia rituals are carried in their gatherings during the first 10 days.

I wanted to confirm if my understanding is correct on the practices of Matam.

It's a traditional ritual that has no basis in Shiaism? If one decides to indulge then that's their own, but if someone chooses not to do anything it doesn't make him less of Shia?

Edited by Megatron

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3 minutes ago, hameedeh said:

It's mustahab to cry for Imam Hussein AS. It is up to you in choosing how else you honor his life, his martyrdom, his sacrifice. Ya Hussein!

Thank you for that.

Is there any basis for this custom ritual in Shia literature?

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1 minute ago, Megatron said:

Is there any basis for this custom ritual in Shia literature?

Prophet SA cried tears for Imam Hussein AS, because he knew that Imam Hussein AS would be martyred in future.

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/we-cry-husayn-so-did-prophet-islam-s-yasser-al-madani

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5 minutes ago, hameedeh said:

Prophet SA cried tears for Imam Hussein AS, because he knew that Imam Hussein AS would be martyred in future.

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/we-cry-husayn-so-did-prophet-islam-s-yasser-al-madani

Yes, we have that narration too.

Was it ritual the descendants of Imam Hussain practiced too?

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53 minutes ago, Megatron said:

Hello all. :)

We're edging closer to Muharam day by day, and it's the time when many Shia rituals are carried in their gatherings during the first 10 days.

I wanted to confirm if my understanding is correct on the practices of Matam.

It's a traditional ritual that has no basis in Shiaism? If one decides to indulge then that's their own, but if someone chooses not to do anything it doesn't make him less of Shia?

Matam was an arab custom. People did it when they lost their loved ones. It started from there.

Since it is mustahab, the prerogative lies on the person whether he/she chooses to do matam or not.

If one does choose to do matam, even then you can simply keep your hand on your chest and not move it, move it gently or go all out. 

The first matam and mourning for Hussain (as) was done by his sister Hz Zainab (as).

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2 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Matam was an arab custom. People did it when they lost their loved ones. It started from there.

Since it is mustahab, the prerogative lies on the person whether he/she chooses to do matam or not.

If one does choose to do matam, even then you can simply keep your hand on your chest and not move it, move it gently or go all out. 

The first matam and mourning for Hussain (as) was done by his sister Hz Zainab (as).

Would Shia scholars condemn those who decide not to indulge at all?

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as salam alaykum my dear brothers and sisters, sunnis and shias.

Very informative link from ayatolla Shirazi's website.

http://www.imamshirazi.com/tatbir fatawa1423.html

And few quotes to highlight main message from other link.

Al-Imam al-Sheikh Abdul Kareem al-Ha’ery

The Founder of the current Hawzah in the holy city of Qum. 

“The hitting of swords on the heads (causing bleeding) is alright (allowed) provided there is no harm to the person doing this.  Furthermore no one has the right to prohibit this (hitting the head with sword).  In fact all kinds of TA’ZIAH – mourning – for SEYYED AL-SHUHADA’ – Imam Hussain – may our souls be sacrificed for him, are MUSTAHAB – desirable deeds.”

 

 

 

The above Fatwa by al-Imam al-Sheikh Abdul Kareem al-Ha’ery was endorsed and signed by the following eminent Maraje’:

 

 

 

 

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Sheikh Muhammad al-Araki,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Ridha al-Gulpaygani,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Shahab-el-Deen al-Mar’ashi al-Najafi,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Hassan al-Tabataba’e al-Qummi,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad al-Waheedi,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Mirza Jawaad al-Tabrizi,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Saadiq al-Rouhani,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma Muhammad Mahdi al-Lankaroudi,

Al-Imam al-Sheikh Muhammad Hussain al-Naa’ini,

 

The teacher of the Maraje’ of the holy city of Najaf.

 

“There is no doubt as to the permissibility of the beating of the chest and the face with the hands to the point of redness or blackness (of the chest or the face).  This is also extended to the lashing of the shoulders and the back with chains to the extent mentioned (above), and even if this led to bleeding. As for causing the bleeding of the head by sword beating, this is also allowed provided it does not lead to endangering harm, such as unstoppable bleeding or harm to the scull, etc. as it is known amongst the experts in doing this (hitting on the head).”

 

 

The above Fatwa by al-Imam al-Sheikh Muhammad Hussain al-Naa’ini was endorsed and signed by the following eminent Maraje’:

 

 

 

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Mohsen al-Hakim,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Kaadhem al-Shari’atMadari,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Abd-el-A’la al-Sabzewary,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Abul-Qassim al-Kho’i,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Ridha al-Gulpaygani,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Ali al-Hussaini al-Seestani,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Saadiq al-Rouhani,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Mirza Jawaad al-Tabrizi,

     

  • Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Sheikh Hussain al-Waheed al-Khurasani,

     

 

And many other Maraje’ and eminent scholars . . .

 

Rest of article here: http://www.imamshirazi.com/tatbir fatawa.html

 

Edited by Abu_Rumaysah

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1 hour ago, A true Sunni said:

I would also ask Abu Rumaysah what his motivation for posting this about blood letting. Hardly a constructive addition. It seems he felt threatened by a meeting of minds

as salam alaykum my respected brother.

I have posted fatawa from the greatest shia scholars from last centuries. Motivation, is to make clear for all and everybody, that selfmutilation, hitting heads with swords, chains and etc, are absolutely accepted in accordance to these great shia minds. One term only, if this will not harm body in the grave form,

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48 minutes ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

So why you people don't follow this sunnah of Prophet (sawa) ? 

as salam alaykum wa rahmatullah.

If we are going to cry for someone in Islam.

Let us first start with mourning upon our prophet (saws).

Then for example hz Ali (r.a), he also been bruttally killed. 

You my beloved shia friends, actually should make 11 mourning per year, by number of your Imams, which you believe been murdered all.

As for mourning in Islam sunni way, I know only one. A woman should mourn her husband for four months and ten days. The Muslim scholars  stated that among the wisdom of specifying the mourning period of a woman over her husband to four months and ten days, is in order to make sure that she is not pregnant. Medical doctors stated that in general the foetus takes a full human form after the period of 120 days, so this period is taken as the waiting period [which a woman is obliged to observe before she remarries], and a period of ten days is added to that period just for being on the safe side.

Allah said regarding this in Quran: 

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those of you who die and leave wives behind them, they (the wives) shall wait (as regards their marriage) for four months and ten days, then when they have fulfilled their term, there is no sin on you if they (the wives) dispose of themselves in a just and honourable manner (i.e., they can marry). And Allaah is Well-Acquainted with what you do.” [al-Baqarah 2:234]

Umm ‘Atiyah reported that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No woman should mourn for a dead person for more than three days, except for a husband, (in which case the period of mourning is) four months and ten days. She should not wear any coloured clothes, only simple dress. She should not apply kohl to her eyes, or use perfume, except for a little qust or izfaar(types of perfume), when she cleans herself after finishing her period.” (Reported by Muslim, 2739).

Umm Habeebah bint Abi Sufyaan reported that when the news of her father’s death reached her, she called for some perfume and wiped it on her forearms, and said: “I do not need it, but I heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘It is not permitted for a woman who believes in Allaah and the Last Day to mourn for any dead person for more than three days, except for a husband, (in which case the period of mourning is) four months and ten days. (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 4926).

Umm Salamah, the wife of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The woman whose husband has (recently) died should not wear clothes dyed with safflower or torn clothes, or dye her hair, or use kohl.” (Reported by al-Nisaa’i, 3479, and others).

I do accept like a merit, if in the day of Ashura someone would really cry when he will read story for our master been killed. Wallahi, I remember my eyes filled with tears, when I was discussing Karbala event with my shia friend. 

But making theater from this event, hitting myself with chains and knifes, cutting the forehead of babies. This is not acceptable. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

as salam alaykum my respected brother.

I have posted fatawa from the greatest shia scholars from last centuries. Motivation, is to make clear for all and everybody, that selfmutilation, hitting heads with swords, chains and etc, are absolutely accepted in accordance to these great shia minds. One term only, if this will not harm body in the grave form,

Its intellectual dishonesty to post that here as anything else except as a historical interest item and in fact I would urge anybody else that feels the urge to post such 'evidence' to preface and couch it in such terms since its not relevant to Shia Fiqh as defined in 2016.

If you were being fair and balanced in your evidence you would have highlighted this.

This is the problem when you have people without knowledge rummaging around on Google. Its possible to post many things out of context.

 

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I am not sure what I been blamed for this time. 

First, is it correct what I understood from your words, that your religion has non-stop evolution. And what was norm years ago, is not good for today?

Second, what does it mean by words its possible to post many things out of context? I have posted two complete fatwas directly from the side of modern day shia scholar. I didn't picked up part out of context. 

Also, I heard a lot here and there, that copy and paste is not good, now I am blamed for using google. What I am supposed to do? Write a book by myself? 

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10 minutes ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

I am not sure what I been blamed for this time. 

First, is it correct what I understood from your words, that your religion has non-stop evolution. And what was norm years ago, is not good for today?

Second, what does it mean by words its possible to post many things out of context? I have posted two complete fatwas directly from the side of modern day shia scholar. I didn't picked up part out of context. 

Also, I heard a lot here and there, that copy and paste is not good, now I am blamed for using google. What I am supposed to do? Write a book by myself? 

Apologies for implying that you are at fault. This had been posted so many times out of context. I should have checked that you are Sunni and not Shia.

No the non-stop evolution analogy is wrong. It might help if you looked at the evolution of the Hanafi shool of thought it might help.

For your information blood letting was not practiced by Shias in any form till 200 years ago. No one knows how it started but it did. Now it is on its way out 

Edited by A true Sunni

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2 hours ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

So why you people don't follow this sunnah of Prophet (sawa) ? 

How do Shias define Sunnah?

Our version states the Prophet (SAW) was shedding tears when Jibreel told him how, and where Hussain would be martyred. That's perfectly understandable, and human nature.

However, the Prophet (SAW) never instructed the Ummah to make it annual tradition to mourn his death, and/or to self flagellate ourselves.

What about your version?

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3 hours ago, Megatron said:

How do Shias define Sunnah?

Our version states the Prophet (SAW) was shedding tears when Jibreel told him how, and where Hussain would be martyred. That's perfectly understandable, and human nature.

However, the Prophet (SAW) never instructed the Ummah to make it annual tradition to mourn his death, and/or to self flagellate ourselves.

What about your version?

That is a very interesting point you make about Sunnah. Sunnah is defined as following the actions words and deeds of the Holy Prophet (pbuahp).

If the Holy Prophet (pbuahp) shed tears on hearing about the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as) then that is part of the Sunnah. We all should shed tears on hearing about the martyrdom. There is no time scale on shedding tears.

As to self flagellation there is no Sunnah for this in either Shia or Sunni traditions ( self flagellation = whipping yourself) 

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10 minutes ago, A true Sunni said:

That is a very interesting point you make about Sunnah. Sunnah is defined as following the actions words and deeds of the Holy Prophet (pbuahp).

If the Holy Prophet (pbuahp) shed tears on hearing about the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as) then that is part of the Sunnah. We all should shed tears on hearing about the martyrdom. There is no time scale on shedding tears.

As to self flagellation there is no Sunnah for this in either Shia or Sunni traditions ( self flagellation = whipping yourself) 

Thanks for the reply.

Our understanding of the Sunnah is similar, but with a few variances.

Personally, I don't shed tears for anyone be it, Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Hassan, Hussain, or any other companion/family member.

I shed tears for the sake of Allah, and ask he forgives me for my transgressions, and to grants me entry in Jannah Al-Firdaus. This is what the Prophet (SAW) did more often, and is the ultimate Sunnah when it comes when is the ideal moment to cry for the sake of Allah.

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6 minutes ago, Megatron said:

Thanks for the reply.

Our understanding of the Sunnah is similar, but with a few variances.

Personally, I don't shed tears for anyone be it, Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Hassan, Hussain, or any other companion/family member.

I shed tears for the sake of Allah, and ask he forgives me for my transgressions, and to grants me entry in Jannah Al-Firdaus. This is what the Prophet (SAW) did more often, and is the ultimate Sunnah when it comes when is the ideal moment to cry for the sake of Allah.

It is sad but you follow the Sunnah but on this particular case choose not to follow the Sunnah. There is no record of the Holy Prophet crying on those other companions so it is not a requirement for you.

Finally you mention shedding tears for the Sake of Allah and that is a commendable act.

Question I would ask is why do you regard it as either/or rather then and.

Doing one doesn't prevent you from doing the other. I am interested to learn what other Sunnahs do you choose to ignore/neglect  

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14 hours ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

You my beloved shia friends, actually should make 11 mourning per year, by number of your Imams, which you believe been murdered all.

We mourn for Holy Prophet (sawa), Janabe Fatema Zahra (s.a.) and 11 Imams every year. Likewise we celebrate their wiladat. No doubt about that.

The next part you stated about a recently windowed woman is irrelevant to the discussion. We also have similar hadeeth of 4 months and 10 days.

 

14 hours ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

I do accept like a merit, if in the day of Ashura someone would really cry when he will read story for our master been killed. Wallahi, I remember my eyes filled with tears, when I was discussing Karbala event with my shia friend. 

But making theater from this event, hitting myself with chains and knifes, cutting the forehead of babies. This is not acceptable. 

Crying is a sunnah of Prophet (sawa).

See your words and then you do not like when someone talks you in the same language.

And as far as Self-flagellation is concerned, our respected ulemas has done research and issued fatwa accordingly. So everyone is entitled to follow their own maraja. The act in itself is not wajib. You better keep yourself out of this loop.

 

Edited by Lover of Ahlulbait (ams)

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12 hours ago, Megatron said:

How do Shias define Sunnah?

Our version states the Prophet (SAW) was shedding tears when Jibreel told him how, and where Hussain would be martyred. That's perfectly understandable, and human nature.

However, the Prophet (SAW) never instructed the Ummah to make it annual tradition to mourn his death, and/or to self flagellate ourselves.

What about your version?

In turn, Prophet (sawa) gathered and narrated the incident to his family and everyone cried. First Jibrael was the speaker and prophet was listener and then prophet was speaker and his family was listener (Same'een/audience). So organizing a majalis (gathering) and crying over Imam Hussain (a.s.) is perfectly following Prophet (sawa).

Holy Prophet (sawa) mourned over Janabe Hamza (ra) and Janabe Jafar e Tayyar (ra) confirms our version. Further Holy Prophet (sawa) used to weep for Janabe Khadija (s.a.) years after her death. Annual tradition?

Answer regarding self-flagellation is given in my previous reply to Abu Rumaysah.

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4 minutes ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

In turn, Prophet (sawa) gathered and narrated the incident to his family and everyone cried. First Jibrael was the speaker and prophet was listener and then prophet was speaker and his family was listener (Same'een/audience). So organizing a majalis (gathering) and crying over Imam Hussain (a.s.) is perfectly following Prophet (sawa).

Holy Prophet (sawa) mourned over Janabe Hamza (ra) and Janabe Jafar e Tayyar (ra) confirms our version. Further Holy Prophet (sawa) used to weep for Janabe Khadija (s.a.) years after her death. Annual tradition?

Answer regarding self-flagellation is given in my previous reply to Abu Rumaysah.

Thanks for your input. Can, you provide a reference from your sources where the Prophet (SAW) narrated the incident to rest of his family after hearing it from Jibreel?

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1 hour ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

We mourn for Holy Prophet (sawa), Janabe Fatema Zahra (s.a.) and 11 Imams every year. Likewise we celebrate their wiladat. No doubt about that.

as salam alaykum my dear friend.

I did not see shias spending 40 days in mourning to anybody apart from our master Husayn.

Quote

 

The next part you stated about a recently windowed woman is irrelevant to the discussion. We also have similar hadeeth of 4 months and 10 days.


 

 

It is absolutely relevant. Because Allah and his prophet (saws) didn't allow to anybody to mourn to anyone apart from wife to her husband. Comprehend this, and compare to shia rituals on muharram. 

Quote

 

Crying is a sunnah of Prophet (sawa).

 

Strange really, I don't accept crying like a sunnah for my prophet. Crying for beloved one, it is something normal for all humankind. 

Quote

 

See your words and then you do not like when someone talks you in the same language.

 

You never seen theater where people play roles of Yazid, Shimr and etc? Just google theater+Karbala. 

Quote

And as far as Self-flagellation is concerned, our respected ulemas has done research and issued fatwa accordingly. So everyone is entitled to follow their own maraja. The act in itself is not wajib. You better keep yourself out of this loop.

True, probably not wajib. But mustahab at least:

The Founder of the current Hawzah in the holy city of Qum. 

“The hitting of swords on the heads (causing bleeding) is alright (allowed) provided there is no harm to the person doing this.  Furthermore no one has the right to prohibit this (hitting the head with sword).  In fact all kinds of TA’ZIAH – mourning – for SEYYED AL-SHUHADA’ – Imam Hussain – may our souls be sacrificed for him, are MUSTAHAB – desirable deeds.”

The above Fatwa by al-Imam al-Sheikh Abdul Kareem al-Ha’ery was endorsed and signed by the following eminent Maraje’:

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Sheikh Muhammad al-Araki,

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Ridha al-Gulpaygani,

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Shahab-el-Deen al-Mar’ashi al-Najafi,

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Hassan al-Tabataba’e al-Qummi,

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad al-Waheedi,

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Mirza Jawaad al-Tabrizi,

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Saadiq al-Rouhani,

Ayatollah al-Udhma Muhammad Mahdi al-Lankaroudi,

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1 hour ago, Megatron said:

Thanks for your input. Can, you provide a reference from your sources where the Prophet (SAW) narrated the incident to rest of his family after hearing it from Jibreel?

Ashi'a min Hayat al-lmam al-Hassan bin Ali (a.s.) (Glimpses of the Life of Imam Hassan bin Ali (a.s.), (Tehran: Al-Balagh Foundation).

Probably in Alam-ul-wara by Shaykh Tabarasi (ra)

and many other secondary books.

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32 minutes ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

 

“The hitting of swords on the heads (causing bleeding) is alright (allowed) provided there is no harm to the person doing this.  Furthermore no one has the right to prohibit this (hitting the head with sword).  In fact all kinds of TA’ZIAH – mourning – for SEYYED AL-SHUHADA’ – Imam Hussain – may our souls be sacrificed for him, are MUSTAHAB – desirable deeds.”

The above Fatwa by al-Imam al-Sheikh Abdul Kareem al-Ha’ery was endorsed and signed by the following eminent Maraje’:

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Sheikh Muhammad al-Araki,

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Ridha al-Gulpaygani,

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Shahab-el-Deen al-Mar’ashi al-Najafi,

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Hassan al-Tabataba’e al-Qummi,

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad al-Waheedi,

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Mirza Jawaad al-Tabrizi,

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Saadiq al-Rouhani,

Ayatollah al-Udhma Muhammad Mahdi al-Lankaroudi,

I did very respectfully tell you that this is a historical document and not relevant to 2016, Despite this you are persisting in posting this.

If you wish to debate historical situations please say so. If you wish to debate 2016 please say so. To try and mix the 2 is disgenuous

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2 minutes ago, A true Sunni said:

I did very respectfully tell you that this is a historical document and not relevant to 2016, Despite this you are persisting in posting this.

If you wish to debate historical situations please say so. If you wish to debate 2016 please say so. To try and mix the 2 is disgenuous

What does it mean historical document? It is not ancient greek papers! It is fatwa from founder of Hawzatul Ilmiyaah. 

And here from modern day scholar, your alive greatest alim, Sistani.

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid al-Seestani

The current leader of the Hawzah of the holy city of Najaf.

 

Question:

What is the ruling regarding the lashing with chains, chest beating, and walking on fire on the occasion of mourning the martyrdom of Imam Hussain peace be upon him?

Answer:

If (these are) not associated with extreme harm or loss of limb, there is no objection.

 

Question:

What is the ruling regarding wearing black, and chest beating when commemorating the martyrdom of Imam Hussain peace be upon him, as well as other infallible Imams peace be upon them?

 

Answer:

This is permissible, and in fact this is regarded as one of the best means of seeking nearness to Allah, since it is upholding and honouring the Sha’a’er of Allah Almighty. 

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30 minutes ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

What does it mean historical document? It is not ancient greek papers! It is fatwa from founder of Hawzatul Ilmiyaah. 

And here from modern day scholar, your alive greatest alim, Sistani.

Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid al-Seestani

The current leader of the Hawzah of the holy city of Najaf.

 

 

 

Question:

 

 

 

What is the ruling regarding the lashing with chains, chest beating, and walking on fire on the occasion of mourning the martyrdom of Imam Hussain peace be upon him?

 

Answer:

 

 

If (these are) not associated with extreme harm or loss of limb, there is no objection.

 

 

Question:

 

What is the ruling regarding wearing black, and chest beating when commemorating the martyrdom of Imam Hussain peace be upon him, as well as other infallible Imams peace be upon them?

 

 

 

Answer:

 

 

This is permissible, and in fact this is regarded as one of the best means of seeking nearness to Allah, since it is upholding and honouring the Sha’a’er of Allah Almighty. 

See how easy it is to google up to date documents. You are quite clearly Sunni there fore you should know the documents you persisted in posting before were historical documents since the majority of fatwas in there have been super ceded updated and passed according to situations prevalent today.   

You can now ask people what their opinion and view on this current ruling is. When you seek to debate it is important to realise all intricacies. I trust you wont be making similar mistakes again in future

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47 minutes ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

as salam alaykum my dear friend.

I did not see shias spending 40 days in mourning to anybody apart from our master Husayn.

Alaikas Salaam

The day of Ashur is a day of great tragedy on Imam Hussain (a.s.), his family, his companions. This obviously didn't end on that very day, infact 10th of Muharram was a starting point. A battle in which not only Imam Hussain (a.s.) was martyred but 18 members of his family including 6 month old infant Janabe Ali Asghar (a.s.), his pious companions. They were killed in most brutal way and their bodies lied on the ground for many days. The women were taken as prisoners and what befell on them on the way to kufa and shaam cannot be imagined. How can we forget the zulm on Shehzadi Sakina (s.a.). Tell me was all this a one day affair? How can all these things be commemorated in a day?. Was not Imam Sajjad (a.s.) weeped and mourned continuously over Aba Abdillah (a.s.) for 40 years?

1 hour ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

It is absolutely relevant. Because Allah and his prophet (saws) didn't allow to anybody to mourn to anyone apart from wife to her husband. Comprehend this, and compare to shia rituals on muharram. 

Prophet (sawa) himself mourned over Janabe Hamza (ra) and Janabe Jafare Tayyar(ra).

 

1 hour ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

Strange really, I don't accept crying like a sunnah for my prophet. Crying for beloved one, it is something normal for all humankind. 

It is a prophets(sawa) deed, so sunnah. And for us shias, who will be more beloved than Ahlulbait (ams).

 

1 hour ago, Abu_Rumaysah said:

You never seen theater where people play roles of Yazid, Shimr and etc? Just google theater+Karbala.

Sorry, I thought you were mocking over majalis. But, What do you have problem with that? Anything until prohibited explicitly can be done, isn't so?

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11 minutes ago, A true Sunni said:

See how easy it is to google up to date documents. You are quite clearly Sunni there fore you should know the documents you persisted in posting before were historical documents since the majority of fatwas in there have been super ceded updated and passed according to situations prevalent today.   

You can now ask people what their opinion and view on this current ruling is. When you seek to debate it is important to realise all intricacies. I trust you wont be making similar mistakes again in future

Could you please elaborate on highlighted part? Does it mean that whatever been recommended in the shia shariah 30 years ago, could be prohibited today?

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Salam Alykom

Imam Al-Sadiq (a): You must never do anything that may embarrass us. A small boy causes embarrassment to his father because of his misdeeds. Be the beauty for those to whom you are devoted and do not be an embarrassment to them. Pray along with their tribes, visit their people in ill health, attend their funerals and do not allow anyone exceed you in good deeds. You have all the more reason to exceed others in good deeds.” - Al-Kafi.

Imam Al-Sadiq (a): “My followers, be an ornament for us, and do not be a shame on us; tell people good words; guard your tongues and keep them back from idle talk and evil words.”

- “Living the Right Way”, Ayatullah Jawad Tehrai.

 

Grand Ayatullah Khoei

“If blood matam and hitting oneself with chains, which are practiced in Muharram, cause serious harm, or harm or ridicule the religion and sect then it is impermissible.”

Al-Masa’il al-Shar’iyah, istifta’at Imam Khoei, al-Ibadat and al-Tariq al-Najah, v.2, p.445

Question:
During the days of Muharram particularly on Ashurah, the Shiah people hurt their backs with “Qameh” or chain, which is a bunch of small chains. Each chain is about 16 to 18 cm long. Each chain has a sharp small knife fixed in it. These people take off their shirts, and start hitting this “Qameh” on their back continuously for sometime, whilst saying, “Ya Hussain”. As a result their body bleeds very badly. Even their slacks or shalwars become wet with blood.

Regarding this action we have some questions as follows:

(a) What is the order of the shariah about hitting (with) such “Qameh” or chains? Please explain in detail.

Answer:
Bisimihi Taala. This action has not been mentioned anywhere in the Holy Shariah. Not only that, but in any case it causes damage and becomes a source of mockery for the others, it is haraam.

Grand Ayatullah Sistani

Question:
I want to know the status of beating our backs with knives (Zanjeer) on the day of Ashura? What is it’s status in our Fiqh?

Answer:
The philosophy of mourning during ‘Ashura’, is to respect the symbols of religion and remember the suffering of Imam Hussain, his companions, and his uprising to defend Islam and prevent the destruction of the religion by the Bani Umayyad dynasty. These rites must be done in such a way that in addition to serving that purpose, it draws the attention of others to these lofty goals. So those actions which are not understandable and cause misunderstandings and contempt for the religion must be avoided.
Click here to see a stamped fatwa with a similar reply.

The following question was sent to the liaison office of Ayatullah Sistani in London (najaf.org):

Question:
“Please tell me if cutting yourself in muharram for Imam Husayn (a) is haraam or not.”

Answer:
“Reviving Hussaini traditions is Mustahab but one is not allowed to Harm the body or the noble reputation of the Faith.”

 

Grand Ayatullah Abul Hassan Esfahani

Ayatullah Esfahani (1860–1946) was the highest ranking Shia jurist and the sole Marja of his time. He openly supported the stance of Ayatullah Muhsin Al-Amin on this issue.

“The usage of swords, chains, drums, horns and the likes today, which have become common in mourning ceremonies on Ashura, is definitely forbidden and against religious doctrine.”

Dayrah al-Ma”arif Tashayu’, v.2, p.531; A’yan al-Shia, v.10, p.378; Professor Hassan Shabir, Tarikh Iraq Mu’asir, v.2, p.340

Grand Ayatullah Muhsin Al-Amin Al-Amuli

Ayatullah Muhsin Al-Amin (~1868-1952), was one of the greatest scholars of his time. He is known for his biographical encyclopaedia, Ayan Al-Shi’ah (62 volumes) and for his very strong opposition to blood shedding rituals. He is known to have boycotted meetings where they were performed. 

He wrote the book “Al-Majalis Al-Saniya” (1928) in which he said: “And what some people do injuring themselves with swords and hitting themselves in a way that harms them is from the encouragement of Shaytan”.

 

Grand Ayatullah Khomeini

“In his name, the Most High. Do not perform blood matam or the likes in the present state. If it does not include forbidden actions or defamation of the religion than there is no problem. Although, reciting poetry is better and mourning the Sayyid of the Oppressed is of the best forms of worship.”

Istifta’at Imam, v.3, miscellaneous questions, question 37.

“I should speak here about the gatherings and memorial ceremonies that are held in the name of Imam Hussain Ibn Ali (a), neither us nor (other) religious persons say that everything done by anybody is correct and good. Many times some of the grand scholars considered these things deviated and bad and they forbade them. We all know that in the last 20 years and so the respected scholar Hajj Sheikh Abdul Kareem Al-Haeri Al-Yazdi (q), who was among the eminent Shia scholars, forbade the Shia from acting out the events and persons of Ashura, and he replaced them with a gathering for mourning and elegies, and this is what the other scholars do with the actions that contradict with the religious rules and they still forbid it until now.” 

“Nahdat Ashura”, page 110-111.

Ayatullah Mutahhari

“Blood matam in its present form does not have a rational or religious basis. It is a clear instance of deviation. At least, in the present day it causes Shi’ism to be questioned. Activities that do not have any relation to the goals of Imam Husayn (a) are razors, blades and locks. Striking the head with a blade is the same. This is a mistake. Some people take blades and strike their heads making blood flow – for what? This action is not mourning.”

 

Grand Ayatullah Khamenei

Question 1450:
Is hitting oneself with swords halal if it is done in secret? Or is your fatwa in this regard universal?
Answer:
In addition to the fact that it is not held in the common view as manifestations of mourning and grief and it has no precedent at the lifetime of the Imams (a.s.) and even after that and we have not received any tradition quoted from the Infallibles (a.s.) about any support for this act, be it privately or publicly, this practice would, at the present time, give others a bad image of our school of thought. Therefore, there is no way that it can be considered permissible.

For more, feel free to check out this website: http://tatbir.org/?page_id=98
 
May Allah SWT guide us all
Wsalam
 

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6 minutes ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

Alaikas Salaam

The day of Ashur is a day of great tragedy on Imam Hussain (a.s.), his family, his companions. This obviously didn't end on that very day, infact 10th of Muharram was a starting point. A battle in which not only Imam Hussain (a.s.) was martyred but 18 members of his family including 6 month old infant Janabe Ali Asghar (a.s.), his pious companions. They were killed in most brutal way and their bodies lied on the ground for many days. The women were taken as prisoners and what befell on them on the way to kufa and shaam cannot be imagined. How can we forget the zulm on Shehzadi Sakina (s.a.). Tell me was all this a one day affair? How can all these things be commemorated in a day?. Was not Imam Sajjad (a.s.) weeped and mourned continuously over Aba Abdillah (a.s.) for 40 years?

I absolutely agree that treachery of kufians, orders from ibn Muawiyah and implementing them by ibn Ziyad resulted in one of the greatest tragedy in Islamic history.

 

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Prophet (sawa) himself mourned over Janabe Hamza (ra) and Janabe Jafare Tayyar(ra).

 

But sunnah is the only way for all of us. Is there any report that prophet (saws) mourned for 40 days each year for Jafar or Hamzah? I am not talking about c/p from peshawar nightmares and etc. About real sound evidence from ahadeth.

 

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Sorry, I thought you were mocking over majalis. But, What do you have problem with that? Anything until prohibited explicitly can be done, isn't so?

Well talking about majalis, I strognly recommend you and other shias to read book by Murtada Muttahari on karbala. He highlighted there lots of problems with such majalis.

Theater, I don't know how with shia Islam, in our way proffesion of actor is prohibited in itself. 
 
 

 

 

 

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