Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

The anti-tatbeer crowd might enjoy this

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Development Team

We follow maraje and they have their own fatwas regarding tatbir. Those that allow can perform. The one who doesn't allow please don't do it and don't criticize those performing, they have every right to follow their maraja. End of the story.

Please respect your brothers-in-faith.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 255
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

You're correct brother. But we cannot forget ashura, in fact our every day becomes the day of ashura after the tragedy of karbala.  We are fighting injustice & opression, but what to do

Bro, I think its the opposite. We were talking about this practice and how was it found in pagans, then suddenly people started to use fatwa cards that have nothing to do with the topic, then people s

This is because of them not understanding the life and death of Aba Abdillah (a.s)

  • Moderators
1 minute ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

We follow maraje and they have their own fatwas regarding tatbir. Those that allow can perform. The one who doesn't allow please don't do it and don't criticize those performing, they have every right to follow their maraja. End of the story.

So we actually can't say anything about the matter, because such a thing depends on Marja judgements?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
52 minutes ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

Crying is also a deed, crying on the tregedy of Karbala, in the love of Imam Hussain is highest form of deeds. 

The highest deed is to follow Imam Hussein a.s. in his fight against injustice and opression.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Development Team
29 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

So we actually can't say anything about the matter, because such a thing depends on Marja judgements?

Yes brother. It does.

We can discuss the matter but we shouldn't fight amongst ourselves. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Faruk said:

The highest deed is to follow Imam Hussein a.s. in his fight against injustice and opression.

You're correct brother.

But we cannot forget ashura, in fact our every day becomes the day of ashura after the tragedy of karbala. 

We are fighting injustice & opression, but what to do with these eyes, whenever the name of karbala comes on our tongues, they start shedding tears. Our hearts start crying, these tears & cry is the source of our steadfastness. It revives our promise & commitment that we will never forget karbala & continue our jihad.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
3 minutes ago, Lover of Ahlulbait (ams) said:

Yes brother. It does.

Brother How? What is the proof that we can't say anything on the matter of these things? 

Quote

We can discuss the matter but we shouldn't fight amongst ourselves. 

This is not an fighting, this is an discussion.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You would think people would be able to debate a matter like this in a constructive way. Why the heck is it insulting to quote the bible with a quote that is actually quite interesting? He clearly didn't argument for or against it in his opening post....what is wrong with you people?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, repenter said:

You would think people would be able to debate a matter like this in a constructive way. Why the heck is it insulting to quote the bible with a quote that is actually quite interesting? He clearly didn't argument for or against it in his opening post....what is wrong with you people?

"The anti-tatbir crowd might ENJOY this"

It is your enjoyment, comparing what your brothers in faith do in love of Imam, with kufr! 

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 8:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا كُونُوا قَوَّامِينَ لِلَّهِ شُهَدَاءَ بِالْقِسْطِ وَلَا يَجْرِمَنَّكُمْ شَنَآنُ قَوْمٍ عَلَىٰ أَلَّا تَعْدِلُوا اعْدِلُوا هُوَ أَقْرَبُ لِلتَّقْوَىٰ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ

O you who believe! Be upright for Allah, bearers of witness with justice, and let not hatred of a people incite you not to act equitably; act equitably, that is nearer to piety, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is Aware of what you do.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
2 hours ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

"The anti-tatbir crowd might ENJOY this"

It is your enjoyment, comparing what your brothers in faith do in love of Imam, with kufr! 

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 8:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا كُونُوا قَوَّامِينَ لِلَّهِ شُهَدَاءَ بِالْقِسْطِ وَلَا يَجْرِمَنَّكُمْ شَنَآنُ قَوْمٍ عَلَىٰ أَلَّا تَعْدِلُوا اعْدِلُوا هُوَ أَقْرَبُ لِلتَّقْوَىٰ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ

O you who believe! Be upright for Allah, bearers of witness with justice, and let not hatred of a people incite you not to act equitably; act equitably, that is nearer to piety, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is Aware of what you do.

So if people do something that has its origins in paganism, then that isn't allowed to be pointed out? If Muslims start putting up Christmas trees out of 'love for Isa (a)', then can it not be pointed out that this is originally a pagan practice?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Development Team
8 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

Brother How? What is the proof that we can't say anything on the matter of these things? 

Its obvious. You cannot impose your maraja's fatwa on other people following different one. Almost all the mujtahid has fatwa about it. And if someone believes this is not a part of Furu-e-deen then again no one can say him anything.

 

8 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

This is not an fighting, this is an discussion.

All I can say that this was not a sane 'discussion'.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam, I don't agree with people hitting themselves across the head with machetes per se, but that's my own opinion I have no right to impose what I think on anyone else, neither do I have the right to judge them. I have too many flaws myself that I need to be worried about.....

That goes for everything else also we have no right to force Islam on anyone either, the path has been shown people are free to chose what they want, that's why the creator gave us free will.....

There is no compulsion where the religion is concerned.” (Holy Quran: 2/ 256)

You cannot guide those you would like to but God guides those He wills. He has best knowledge of the guided.” (Holy Quran/28: 56)

We have appointed a law and a practice for every one of you. Had God willed, He would have made you a single community, but He wanted to test you regarding what has come to you. So compete with each other in doing good. Every one of you will return to God and He will inform you regarding the things about which you differed.” (Surat al-Ma’ida, 48)

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
10 hours ago, Ali al-Abdullah said:

There's actually "shias" who don't feel pain or cry for Aba Abdillah (as).. 

This is because of them not understanding the life and death of Aba Abdillah (a.s)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
Quote

Its obvious. You cannot impose your maraja's fatwa on other people following different one. Almost all the mujtahid has fatwa about it. And if someone believes this is not a part of Furu-e-deen then again no one can say him anything.

Have I even imposing my Marja fatwa on other people? Have I even somewhere said that it is not allowed? We are talking how mushrik used to do these acts to express their love and remembering their gods, and how recently it suddenly was founded with Shias. No of the God Communications ever recommended such an practice, and we found from the Bible that it was mentioned it came from kufur people instead.

Quote

All I can say that this was not a sane 'discussion'.

Define me what is "sane" in this matter.
 

Quote

I dont regard it as discussion, the subject post is rather an insult of our brothers in faith.

Then don't discuss. We want to have a rational discussion with this topic.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

So if people do something that has its origins in paganism, then that isn't allowed to be pointed out? If Muslims start putting up Christmas trees out of 'love for Isa (a)', then can it not be pointed out that this is originally a pagan practice?

Your second question is absurd. For your first question, i already pointed out the organized crying of Rodalli's from hinduism.  

Try to judge your argument now, if i start claiming that the organized crying for Imam Hussain (a.s) has its origin from hinduism (na'uzobillah)? If i start claiming that your crying for Imam is not because of grief, it is simple performance like Rodalli's do, then? 

You hire a zakir, you give him the money, he tells you the masaib and you cry. This is performance not grief. 

You can ask them their rational logic or reason for tatbir, if you're not satisfied with their reason, you simply avoid doing such acts .Dont try to create Islamic State of Iranian Shias (ISIS) in our religion, we're brothers in faith not your enemies.

By the way, all this focus & questions on tatbir are due to the fatwa of Ayatullah Khamenei(r.a), I have deep respect for him in my heart. I can understand his reason & logic behind that fatwa. Some of his ignorant followers dont even know the adicates to debate with brothers in faith. 

You're free to call me a mushrik or kafir, i dont mind it, I will continue to defend my bothers and scholors who have supported tatbir from the very beginning as i defend Ayatullah Khamenei (r.a) infront of those who practice tatbir.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
2 hours ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

Your second question is absurd. For your first question, i already pointed out the organized crying of Rodalli's from hinduism.  

Try to judge your argument now, if i start claiming that the organized crying for Imam Hussain (a.s) has its origin from hinduism (na'uzobillah)? If i start claiming that your crying for Imam is not because of grief, it is simple performance like Rodalli's do, then? 

You hire a zakir, you give him the money, he tells you the masaib and you cry. This is performance not grief. 

You can ask them their rational logic or reason for tatbir, if you're not satisfied with their reason, you simply avoid doing such acts .Dont try to create Islamic State of Iranian Shias (ISIS) in our religion, we're brothers in faith not your enemies.

By the way, all this focus & questions on tatbir are due to the fatwa of Ayatullah Khamenei(r.a), I have deep respect for him in my heart. I can understand his reason & logic behind that fatwa. Some of his ignorant followers dont even know the adicates to debate with brothers in faith. 

You're free to call me a mushrik or kafir, i dont mind it, I will continue to defend my bothers and scholors who have supported tatbir from the very beginning as i defend Ayatullah Khamenei (r.a) infront of those who practice tatbir.

Brother

Zikr and crying are from Naql of Aimmah(as)

so whoever does or does not do it becomes irrelevant or immaterial.

For Tatbir there is no Naql.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Dear brothers and sisters in Islam,

Let's discuss the concept of mourning for Imam Hussein (AS). What do you think is the reason we lament the martyrdom of the grandson of the Prophet, peace be upon him and his family.  The concept of mourning during 'Ashura, as said by religious scholars, is to respect the symbols of Religion and remember the suffering of Imam Hussein (AS),  his companions, and his uprising to defend Islam and prevent the destruction of the religion by Bani Umayyad dynasty.  These rites must be done in such a way that in addition to serving that purpose, it draws the attention of others to these lofty goals. It is necessary to narrate the story of the sacrifices  and to listen to those who narrate the event. The aim is to learn lessons from this great event and not to inflict harm upon ourselves. Why should we give a pretext in the hands of our enemies by shedding our own blood and allowing them to videotape the bloody scenes? Does anyone think that self-flagellation will get him closer to Allah? If self-flagellation brings someone closer to Allah, why aren't the religious authorities (whom we consider as religious experts) do not take a sword to hit their heads? 

Let's be rational and let us not think that we know better than our religious authorities.  By Allah, if we perform our obligatory duties and stay away from haram things, our eternal felicity is guaranteed.  The main goal of mourning is to learn lessons from the sacrifices made on the Day of Ashura and in doing so we must  follow our religious authorities. Let's not go to extremes. Moderation in all matters is the best policy.

God bless you.

Edited by Jawid Akbari
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, haideriam said:

For Tatbir there is no Naql.

The logical answer of this has been given yesterday.

The Prophet & Aimma e Tahireen are perfect humans i.e., free from any sort of Junoon neither they can act like mujnoon, as Quran says:
وَمَا صَاحِبُكُم بِمَجْنُونٍ

The intensity of grief & sorrow makes some azadar to act like majnoon.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
4 hours ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

Your second question is absurd. For your first question, i already pointed out the organized crying of Rodalli's from hinduism.  

Try to judge your argument now, if i start claiming that the organized crying for Imam Hussain (a.s) has its origin from hinduism (na'uzobillah)? If i start claiming that your crying for Imam is not because of grief, it is simple performance like Rodalli's do, then? 

Is anyone seriously in favour of 'organised crying'?

 

4 hours ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

You hire a zakir, you give him the money, he tells you the masaib and you cry. This is performance not grief.

No. If you genuinely cry because of rememberance of what happened, then that is grief. However, if you only cry so that other people can see you cry, then that is performance.

 

4 hours ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

You can ask them their rational logic or reason for tatbir, if you're not satisfied with their reason, you simply avoid doing such acts .Dont try to create Islamic State of Iranian Shias (ISIS) in our religion, we're brothers in faith not your enemies.

There is no 'rational logic' for tatbir. Nobody sat around study the Qur'an and ahadith and decided that it would make sense to slash their heads open with swords. In reality, they saw some other groups doing it, and probably thought 'if they can do it out of love for Jesus, then we can do it for Imam Husayn'. Whatever their thinking at the time, they were simply imitating others.

As for the accusation of this having anything to do with Iran, it just goes to show that you shouldn't make assumptions. This has nothing to do with Iran, and if you look through my posting history you will see that I rarely talk about Iran (and when I do, it's not always positive).

 

4 hours ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

By the way, all this focus & questions on tatbir are due to the fatwa of Ayatullah Khamenei(r.a), I have deep respect for him in my heart. I can understand his reason & logic behind that fatwa. Some of his ignorant followers dont even know the adicates to debate with brothers in faith. 

No, it's not due to that fatwa. It's due to the fact that it looks ridiculous and has no basis in Islam. It was imported from other religions, but now is so embedded in Shia culture that many Shias can't imagine it not being done.

 

4 hours ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

You're free to call me a mushrik or kafir, i dont mind it, I will continue to defend my bothers and scholors who have supported tatbir from the very beginning as i defend Ayatullah Khamenei (r.a) infront of those who practice tatbir.

Where have I implied that you are a mushrik or a kafir? Defending the practices that originate from the kuffar doesn't make you a kafir.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

@Sajjad Zaidi Don't post ridiculously long copy and paste jobs. Anything that long should be linked to.

Anyway, I don't understand why the Christmas tree example is so ridiculous. Please explain the difference.

Don't need to explain anything further, I don't want to indulge in a conversation which might force me to say anything unsuitable for those whom I respect. You continue to dream creating ISIS (Islamic State of Iranian Shias) among Shia's, you will not succeed in your mission.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
2 minutes ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

Don't need to explain anything further, I don't want to indulge in a conversation which might force me to say anything unsuitable for those whom I respect. You continue to dream creating ISIS (Islamic State of Iranian Shias) among Shia's, you will not succeed in your mission.  

What is it with people that defend tatbir that they tend to be hot-headed, quick to jump to conclusions, and find it hard to have a rational conversation? I try not to generalise, but you guys are making it really hard. What does ISIS have to do with this discussion??

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
8 minutes ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

The logical answer of this has been given yesterday.

The Prophet & Aimma e Tahireen are perfect humans i.e., free from any sort of Junoon neither they can act like mujnoon, as Quran says:
وَمَا صَاحِبُكُم بِمَجْنُونٍ

The intensity of grief & sorrow makes some azadar to act like majnoon.

 

Are they majnoon when they are preparing their blades the night before?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Is anyone seriously in favour of 'organised crying'?

So, your next step is to ban the majalis of Imam Hussain (a.s)? May the curse of Almighty Allah be on those who try to stop this dhikr.
 

 

5 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

No. If you genuinely cry because of rememberance of what happened, then that is grief. However, if you only cry so that other people can see you cry, then that is performance.

 I prefer to hold patience here, may the Almighty pour patience upon me & grant me steadfastness.
 

 

  1. 8 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

No, it's not due to that fatwa. It's due to the fact that it looks ridiculous and has no basis in Islam.

What is your status to judge that & make such conclusion? No one is following you. You're just a waste of time.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Defending the practices that originate from the kuffar doesn't make you a kafir.

This is not correct, Your heart basically is drowned in the ideology of kufr, that might be the reason you're unable to distinguish between kufr & emaan. This is called blindness in religious terminology.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Haimi said:

Indeed shia men are smart:threatenlumber::D

Brother Haimi, kindly excuse me for all this.... It was a copy paste, not my personal opinion.
I love you & the Islamic Republic, from the bottom of my heart..... I respect the hard-work of Iranian Nation, their sacrifices & struggle for protecting the Shia interests throughout the world. 
 
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Site Administrators
7 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

So if people do something that has its origins in paganism, then that isn't allowed to be pointed out? If Muslims start putting up Christmas trees out of 'love for Isa (a)', then can it not be pointed out that this is originally a pagan practice?

wait.... so there's no Santa? :cry:

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sajjad Zaidi said:

Brother Haimi, kindly excuse me for all this.... It was a copy paste, not my personal opinion.
I love you & the Islamic Republic, from the bottom of my heart..... I respect the hard-work of Iranian Nation, their sacrifices & struggle for protecting the Shia interests throughout the world. 
 
 

I was joking brother: p

Thank you, appreciate it, we love you too.

And btw, what "hard work" you're taking about?:-)

ما رایت الا جمیلا

Edited by Haimi
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...