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Faruk

Wa 'ala alihi wa sahbihi

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Salam,

To sunni's what does the order of the salawat mean which send blessings on Muhammad s.a.w.a.s. and then his family and then his companions?

How can the meaning of alihi be 'his family and companions' as some sunni stated while it is stated seperately?

And is not this a proof that the Ahl al-Bayt is higher in status than the sahaba?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 







 

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Aale Muhammad(pbuh) has a broader meaning, it can means followers of Muhammad(pbuh)

We read in the book of Shia Shiekh at-Toosi, under the heading “The person who obeys Aale Muhammad, He will be counted as one amongst Aale Muhammad”; where he presents a hadeeth from Imam Abu Abdillah as-sadiq(as), who said that Umar bin Yazeed was from Aale Muhammad. Then he eventually comments stating that, “due to obedience, not only a person is included in Aale Muhammad, but it makes him HizbAllah. (Amaali by al-Toosi, part 1, pg 126-127)

. We read in a Shia Hadith that, al-Hassan bin al-Hussein (rah) says that Zaid bin `Ali (rah) is from Aale-Muhammad, which implies that aale-Muhammad aren’t some divinely chosen infallibles.

We read in the Shia book, Ikhtiyar Ma`rifat al-Rijal by al-Tusi (Rijal al-Kashshi)

حمدويه قال : حدثنا أيوب قال : حدثنا حنان بن سدير قال : كنت جالسا عند الحسن بن الحسين فجاء سعيد بن منصور وكان من رؤساء الزيدية فقال : ما ترى في النبيذ فان زيدا كان يشربه عندنا ؟ قال : ما أصدق على زيد أنه يشرب مسكرا قال : بلى قد شربه قال : فإن كان فعل فان زيدا ليس بنبي ولا وصي نبي انما هو رجل من آل محمد يخطي ويصيب

[Hamdaweih said: Ayyub told us: Hanan bin Sudair said: I was sitting with al-Hassan bin al-Hussein, then Sa`eed bin Mansour came and he was from the leaders of the Zaydiyyah, and he said: “What do you think of wine? Zaid used to drink it” so he said: “I do not believe that Zaid would drink the intoxicant” he said: “Yes, he drank it” he replied: “Even if he did, Zaid is not a prophet or a successor of a prophet, he is only a man from Aale-Muhammad, he makes mistakes.”]

Sheikh Ibn Jibrîn recalls some lines of poetry in his Ibhâj Al-Mu’minîn (an explanation of Manhaj As-Sâlikîn ), which defines the meaning of Aal.

آل الـنبـي هـم أتـبـاع مـلـتـه * مـن كـان من عجم منهـم ومـن عرب
لـو لـم يـكـن آلـه إلا قـرابـتــه * صلى المصلي على الطاغي أبي لهب
The aal of the Prophet are those followers of his religion
Be he a foreigner from amongst them or an Arab,
If his aal were not but his kinsmen
Then the supplicant has prayed for the tyrant Abu Lahab.
So the companions are from the Prophet’s (sall Allâhu `alayhi wasallam) Aal, as are his followers and ummah. The usage of the word aâl to carry this meaning has precedence in the Qur’ân.
فَأَنجَيْنَاكُمْ وَأَغْرَقْنَا آلَ فِرْعَوْنَ وَأَنتُمْ تَنظُرُونَ
So We saved you and drowned the followers(aal) of Firon and you watched by.(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:50)

 

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Wa salam,

I'm not a sunni, but I hope I can answer as Muslim.

Allah swt told us in 43rd ayat of sura al-Ahzab هُوَ الَّذِي يُصَلِّي عَلَيْكُمْ وَمَلَائِكَتُهُ which means that He (Allah swt) yusalli on (all) believers, and angels. So, we can tell "sall-Allahu 'ala..." for any of believers, because that is what Allah swt is doing. If somebody thinks that 'alihi are believers (s)he can say "wa 'ala 'alihi", if somebody thinks that sahaba are believers they can say "wa 'ala sahbihi", or if somebody thinks that you're believer he can say "sall Allahu 'ala Faruqi" or on me "sall Allahu 'ala 'Ala'id-deeni". Who's "bigger" (or higher) believer Allah swt knows.

Allah's bless and salam.

Edited by Aladin from Azra tribe

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29 minutes ago, AbbaJaan said:

Aale Muhammad(pbuh) has a broader meaning, it can means followers of Muhammad(pbuh)

Then why the separation: Wa 'ala alihi wa sahbihi

There is no need for that if his companions (sahbihi) are incorprated in his family (alihi).

This clearly indicates that his family and his companions are not one and the same category and status.

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The companion can never be of higher status than that of Ahl albayat AS.

Does the quran mention to love the companions? the answer is no.

Did the prophet took the companions at he event of Mubahila? the answer is No.

Did the prophet include the companions in the purified one verse 33;33? The answer is no.

WS  

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Salati AbdulQadir said:

The directive from the noble Prophet (s.a.w.a) on the 'Salawat' format only included the progeny of Muhammad (i.e. Aali Muhammad) and not the companions.

This is indeed an Islamic fundamental which survived in the prayer of all sects.

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24 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Then why the separation: Wa 'ala alihi wa sahbihi

There is no need for that if his companions (sahbihi) are incorprated in his family (alihi).

This clearly indicates that his family and his companions are not one and the same category and status.

Regarding they being addressed specifically even after aal was mentioned, then its specific declaration of their superiority and honour. The mentioning of general(aam ) with special(khaas) and special(khaas) with general(aam) is very renowned style. Even though Aal means followers as well, but the best of the followers of Muhammad(pbuh) were his Sahaba, And remember Sahaba encompasses Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain as well.

An example for this can be seen in this verse:

إِنَّ الْمُسْلِمِينَ وَالْمُسْلِمَاتِ وَالْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَالْقَانِتِينَ وَالْقَانِتَاتِ وَالصَّادِقِينَ وَالصَّادِقَاتِ وَالصَّابِرِينَ وَالصَّابِرَاتِ وَالْخَاشِعِينَ وَالْخَاشِعَاتِ وَالْمُتَصَدِّقِينَ وَالْمُتَصَدِّقَاتِ وَالصَّائِمِينَ وَالصَّائِمَاتِ وَالْحَافِظِينَ فُرُوجَهُمْ وَالْحَافِظَاتِ وَالذَّاكِرِينَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا وَالذَّاكِرَاتِ أَعَدَّ اللَّهُ لَهُم مَّغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا

Surely the men who submit and the women who submit, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obeying men and the obeying women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women and the humble men and the humble women, and the almsgiving men and the almsgiving women, and the fasting men and the fasting women, and the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard, and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember– Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a mighty reward.(33:35)

In this verse the rest after muslimeen and muslimaat doesn’t mean that they are not from muslimeen and muslimaat, they too come under muslimeen and muslimaat, as the words muslimeen and muslimaat encompass all the other categories mentioned but they were mentioned to specify and to clarify.

The point is that Aal can meaning followers as well.

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39 minutes ago, AbbaJaan said:

The point is that Aal can meaning followers as well.

So first his family and followers (alihi) and then his companions (sahbihi).

That doesn't make sense bro'.

Edited by Faruk

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I believe that sahbihi was a later addition. A desperate attempt to pass the Ahl Al-Bayt in status without succes.

That's how these semantic problematics emerged.

It's however a sunni trend to only mention the sahaba as much as possible. In khotba's and lectures. The term Ahl Al-Bayt is hardly mentioned lest it is about the Ummul Moninin.

Edited by Faruk

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Indeed! Peace be upon the Companions of the Prophet (pbuh), but not those amongst the Companions who were usurpers, those who could not contain their anger, and those engaged in rampant nepotism (you know, like putting their own family members who were exiled by the Prophet himself into positions of power across the Caliphate!).

:)

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4 hours ago, Faruk said:

Salam,

To sunni's what does the order of the salawat mean which send blessings on Muhammad s.a.w.a.s. and then his family and then his companions?

How can the meaning of alihi be 'his family and companions' as some sunni stated while it is stated seperately?

And is not this a proof that the Ahl al-Bayt is higher in status than the sahaba?


 

To Sunni's the Ahul Bayt has always had a higher status than the Sahaba/companions (though that gap in status isn't as wide as the Shia' take it to be), they just have a different Idea of what happened in history than the Shia'.   The Sunni's also acknowledge that one is not a muslim unless they love the Prophet and his family more than he loves himself.  Since their idea of history is different than the SHia', they don't perceive themselves the same same way the Shia perceive them.    In their rendition of events, even during the time of Imam Jafar as Sadiq AS, there was no Sunni/Shia divide and that his words have been corrupted to assume Shia' narrative to those who elevate the status of Ah ul Bait, to what they perceive as shirk like tendencies/above human. 

According to them, they will never cross the threshold where Imams/Mahdi will have super prophetic like qualities that exceed the normal human.  To them, the Imams were highly respected/highly regarded in status, but were misunderstood by their followers and assumed the followers of those imams to be fanatics.  They believe the Shia' were over consumed by their love for the Prophet and the Ah ul Bait, and inadvertently entered a realm of Islam that they aren't comfortable with thus the emphasis on separation.

The Sunnis have a very strict fear (perhaps over zealous / irrational) of accidentally stepping into shirk from their renowned scholars.  In their mind, if Allah swt is not their focal point of prayers and worship, then they are in shirk (I oversimplified this).   A Sunni would only send Salawat on the Prophet/Family during their obligatory prayers, and only send Salawat on the Prophet at the mention of his person.  And on the Jumma' Khotba, the Sunnis would send Salawat on them all in the order previously mentioned by OP.  If a Sunni feels they are praising the Prophet's family in excess of actually praising God, they fear they have entered shirk (inadvertently).   That is their perspective.

Please understand I don't assume this perspective for myself, this is what I grew up hearing.

 

Ummayad Bid'ah/politics unfortunately slipped through the cracks and attached itself to today's common Sunnism, which is why you see the emphasis on more Sahaba's, than other individuals. 

Below is run of the mill example of every Sunni Khotba (I grew up Sunni).

From within Sunnism, you have varying levels of acknowledgment towards the Ah ul Bait, some more towards the family, some less.

How to Deliver the Friday Khutbah

 

 

(The Khateeb stands on the mimbar or on the same level as the congregation, and says:

"Assalamu 'Alaikum"; (He sits down.)

Standing before the Imam, the Mu'adh-dhin says the Adhan

The Khateeb stands and says :

"A'uudhubillaahi mina-sh shaytaani-r rajeem, Bismillaahi-r Rahmaani-r Raheem

He praises and thanks Allah and sends blessings and greetings to Prophet Muhammad, peace be on him, to his family and to his companions, by saying:

"Al Hamdu Lillahi Rabbil 'Alameen." "Wa-ssalatu was-salamu 'alaSayyidinaa Muhammad wa 'ala aalihi wa Sahbihi ajma’een."

Saying “Amma bad” (roughly meaning „Now to proceed, he then recites a verse or verses of the Quran relating to the subject of his talk by saying:

Qaala-l laahu Taaala fi kitaabihi-l majeed meaning „Allah the Almighty has said in His Glorious Book

He follows it with a Hadith from the Prophet about the subject he is going to talk about by saying: Wa qaala rasuulu-l laahi – salla-l laahu „alayhi wa sallam and then the actual words of the hadith.

7. He then deals with the main theme of his khutbah.

8. He ends his first khutbah with an Ayah and a Hadith. It is preferable that they be recited in their original Arabic texts.

9. Before he sits down, he should ask the congregating Muslims to ask Allah for forgiveness, guidance and mercy. He should ask forgiveness for himself, also.

10. After a few moments of pause, he stands up and starts the second khutbah.

11. The second khutbah should start with praise to Allah, followed by blessings (Salat) and greeting (Salaam) to the Prophet, his family, his companions and unto their followers, by saying:

" Al Hamdu Lillahi Rabbil 'Alameen wa-s salaatu wa-s salaamu alaa sayyidinaa Muhammad wa 'ala Aalihi wa Sahbihi wa man wala."

12. It is preferable that the second khutbah be devoted to Du'a' (supplications).

13. The best Du'a' are those from the Qur'an as well as from the Prophet. The starting of the Du'a' could begin as follows:

Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He, said in the Qur'an, in Surah Al-Ahzab (The Confederates), the following:

"Indeed! Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet. O you who believe! Send blessings on him, and salute him with a worthy salutation." (33:56)

The Khateeb is to continue to say the following:

"Allahuma Salla 'Ala Muhammadin Wa 'Ala Ali Muhammadin, Kama Sallaita 'Ala Ibrahima Wa 'Ala Ali Ibrahim.

Allahuma Barik 'Ala Muhammadin Wa 'Ala Ali Muhammad, Kama Barakta 'Ala Ibrahima Wa 'Ala Ali Ibrahim. Fil 'Alameen Innaka Hameedun Majeed."

"O Allah! Send benediction on Muhammad and the family of Muhammad, as you sent benediction on Ibrahim and the family of Ibrahim."

"O Allah! Bless Muhammad and the family of Muhammad, as you blessed Ibrahim and the family of Ibrahim. Indeed You are (Ya Allah) Ever-Praised and Ever-Exalted in the universe!"

14. The Khateeb should then recite some Du'as or supplications.

15. It is then recommended that the Khateeb end the khutbah by saying:

"Glorified be your Sustainer, the Possessor of Majesty, from that which they attribute (unto Him). And peace be unto all His messengers. And all praise and thanks be to Allah, Sustainer of all creation!" (37:180-182)

16. Then he may say the following:

"Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and giving to kith and kin, and He forbids all indecent deeds, and evil and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition." (16:90)

17. The Khateeb then instructs the Mu'adh-dhin to give the Iqaamah for the Salaat by saying:

Aqimu-s Salaat. And then adds:

Indeed, Salat keeps one away from lewdness and iniquity, and the (constant) remembrance of Allah is most great. And Allah knows whatever you do." (29:45)

18. Now, standing in the direction of the Kabah, the Khateeb starts the Salat of two Rakaat Fard Salatu-l Jumu'ah in a jama'ah.

19. The Salat is a regular one, with the recitations of Qur'an done vocally like those of Fajr, Maghrib and Isha' prayers.

20. Time should be allocated for the congregating Muslims to perform the after Sunnah Salat as well as to make their Tasbeeh and Du'a'.

21. Muslims should leave the Masjid politely with solemnity and serenity. While leaving, they should get to know each other and improve their relationships.

Summary

The essential features of Friday Khutbah are the following according to the Sunnah of the Prophet.

 

v The Imam should be in Wudu and should be properly dressed.

 

v It should be given from a pulpit (minbar). According to the Sunnah the minbar should be at the right side of the mihrab. It should have three steps. The Imam should go up on the minbar, stand on the second step and sit on the third step. If minbar is not available then one can stand on any elevated place. If that is not available then one can stand on the musalla facing the people.

 

v The Imam should go on the minbar, while facing the people in the standing position he should say , "Assalam 'alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh." The audience should answer the Imam. The he should sit down and the Adhan for Khutbah should be given.

 

v After the Adhan, the Imam should stand up and deliver the Khutbah. The Khutbah should begin with the praise of Allah (hamd), the declaration of faith (two shahadah), peace and blessing upon the Prophet (salat and salam), then at least one ayah from the Qur'an should be recited. All these things should be in Arabic. After this the Imam can use the local language to speak to the people and remind them about their faith and their religious duties.

 

v The Khutbah should be in two parts. After finishing the first part the Imam should sit down for a short while (for so long that three short verses of the Qur'an or three times Subhanallah can be recited.)

 

v First Khutbah should be on any topic of concern and relevance for the community. But the second Khutbah should end with peace and blessings on the Prophet and his companions and with du'a for all the people. It is recommended to give the second Khutbah based on the recommended prayers (ad'iyah ma'thurah). These prayers should be recited in Arabic.

 

v It is recommended that the Khutbah is not too long and should be inspiring and motivational. It should also avoid controversial subjects. The audience must listen to the Imam quietly without any interruption. People should not talk to each other or engage in any other activity during the Khutbah.

 

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5 hours ago, Faruk said:

So first his family and followers (alihi) and then his companions (sahbihi).

That doesn't make sense bro'.

You have failed to understand this view brother.

Aalihi is his followers, i didn't say family. Then his companions, because to give special reference and honor to this group among his Aal(followers).

If it doesn't make sense to you, then what will you say about the verse of Quran which I quoted, that mentions a general group(Muslimeen) then gives special reference to certain groups among it.

إِنَّ الْمُسْلِمِينَ وَالْمُسْلِمَاتِ وَالْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَالْقَانِتِينَ وَالْقَانِتَاتِ وَالصَّادِقِينَ وَالصَّادِقَاتِ وَالصَّابِرِينَ وَالصَّابِرَاتِ وَالْخَاشِعِينَ وَالْخَاشِعَاتِ وَالْمُتَصَدِّقِينَ وَالْمُتَصَدِّقَاتِ وَالصَّائِمِينَ وَالصَّائِمَاتِ وَالْحَافِظِينَ فُرُوجَهُمْ وَالْحَافِظَاتِ وَالذَّاكِرِينَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا وَالذَّاكِرَاتِ أَعَدَّ اللَّهُ لَهُم مَّغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا

Surely the men who submit and the women who submit, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obeying men and the obeying women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women and the humble men and the humble women, and the almsgiving men and the almsgiving women, and the fasting men and the fasting women, and the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard, and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember– Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a mighty reward.(33:35)

In this verse the rest after muslimeen and muslimaat doesn’t mean that they are not from muslimeen and muslimaat, they too come under muslimeen and muslimaat, as the words muslimeen and muslimaat encompass all the other categories mentioned but they were mentioned to specify and to clarify.

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17 hours ago, AbbaJaan said:

Regarding they being addressed specifically even after aal was mentioned, then its specific declaration of their superiority and honour. The mentioning of general(aam ) with special(khaas) and special(khaas) with general(aam) is very renowned style. Even though Aal means followers as well, but the best of the followers of Muhammad(pbuh) were his Sahaba, And remember Sahaba encompasses Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain as well.

An example for this can be seen in this verse:

إِنَّ الْمُسْلِمِينَ وَالْمُسْلِمَاتِ وَالْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَالْقَانِتِينَ وَالْقَانِتَاتِ وَالصَّادِقِينَ وَالصَّادِقَاتِ وَالصَّابِرِينَ وَالصَّابِرَاتِ وَالْخَاشِعِينَ وَالْخَاشِعَاتِ وَالْمُتَصَدِّقِينَ وَالْمُتَصَدِّقَاتِ وَالصَّائِمِينَ وَالصَّائِمَاتِ وَالْحَافِظِينَ فُرُوجَهُمْ وَالْحَافِظَاتِ وَالذَّاكِرِينَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا وَالذَّاكِرَاتِ أَعَدَّ اللَّهُ لَهُم مَّغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا

Surely the men who submit and the women who submit, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obeying men and the obeying women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women and the humble men and the humble women, and the almsgiving men and the almsgiving women, and the fasting men and the fasting women, and the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard, and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember– Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a mighty reward.(33:35)

In this verse the rest after muslimeen and muslimaat doesn’t mean that they are not from muslimeen and muslimaat, they too come under muslimeen and muslimaat, as the words muslimeen and muslimaat encompass all the other categories mentioned but they were mentioned to specify and to clarify.

The point is that Aal can meaning followers as well.

Since when does "Suhaba" encompass these five individuals?

By your logic then "aal" also includes companions, so why do they need their own segment (wa suhbihi) but his holy progeny are just swept under companions? 

Since his family do have a higher status than companions it would make sense for them to have a part of the Salawat and not the companions. 

Edited by Alzaynebia313

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14 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

Allah, Glorified and Exalted is He, said in the Qur'an, in Surah Al-Ahzab (The Confederates), the following:

 

"Indeed! Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet. O you who believe! Send blessings on him, and salute him with a worthy salutation." (33:56)

 

The Khateeb is to continue to say the following:

 

"Allahuma Salla 'Ala Muhammadin Wa 'Ala Ali Muhammadin, Kama Sallaita 'Ala Ibrahima Wa 'Ala Ali Ibrahim.

 

Allahuma Barik 'Ala Muhammadin Wa 'Ala Ali Muhammad, Kama Barakta 'Ala Ibrahima Wa 'Ala Ali Ibrahim. Fil 'Alameen Innaka Hameedun Majeed."

 

"O Allah! Send benediction on Muhammad and the family of Muhammad, as you sent benediction on Ibrahim and the family of Ibrahim."

 

"O Allah! Bless Muhammad and the family of Muhammad, as you blessed Ibrahim and the family of Ibrahim. Indeed You are (Ya Allah) Ever-Praised and Ever-Exalted in the universe!"

 

:bismillah:

:salam:

This original and authentic Salawat takes care of all innovations and conjecture.

:ws:

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Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakathu,

By definition, Ahlul Bayt (ra) - Imam Ali (ra), Fatima (ra), Imam Hassan (ra) and Imam Hussain (ra) included - are also Sahaba.  They met the Prophet (saw), believed in Islam and died in that state of submission (Islam).

So when we say, "....wa ala aalihi wa sahbihi wa salam", we are sending twice the salawat upon Ahlul Bayt (ra).  Instead of complaining, maybe our Shia brothers should adopt this practice.  Furthermore, when you hear Sunnis talk extensively about Sahaba (ra) and you are thinking, "wow, no mention of Ahlul Bayt (ra)", I hope you now realize that the word "Sahaba" includes Ahlul Bayt (ra) whereas the Companions (ra) are not included in Ahlul Bayt (ra).  The term "Sahaba" is all-inclusive and due to this convenience (since it includes both Ahlul Bayt (ra) and Companions (ra)), it is used so frequently.

As for this practice - including the Sahaba (ra) in salawat - being an innovation, Dr. Tijani had the same concern during the Al-Mustakillah debates.  However, he was badly refuted.  Here is the video.  I cannot find the one with English subtitles but those who speak Arabic or Dutch (I'm guessing that the video has Dutch subtitles) will understand it.

 

Edited by onereligion

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8 minutes ago, onereligion said:

Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakathu,

By definition, Ahlul Bayt (ra) - Imam Ali (ra), Fatima (ra), Imam Hassan (ra) and Imam Hussain (ra) included - are also Sahaba.  They met the Prophet (saw), believed in Islam and died in that state of submission (Islam).

So when we say, "....wa ala aalihi wa sahbihi wa salam", we are sending twice the salawat upon Ahlul Bayt (ra).  Instead of complaining, maybe our Shia brothers should adopt this practice.  Furthermore, when you hear Sunnis talk extensively about Sahaba (ra) and you are thinking, "wow, no mention of Ahlul Bayt (ra)", I hope you now realize that the word "Sahaba" includes Ahlul Bayt (ra) whereas the Companions (ra) are not included in Ahlul Bayt (ra).  The term "Sahaba" is all-inclusive and due to this convenience (since it includes both Ahlul Bayt (ra) and Companions (ra)), it is used so frequently.

As for this practice - including the Sahaba (ra) in salawat - being an innovation, Dr. Tijani had the same concern during the Al-Mustakillah debates.  However, he was badly refuted.  Here is the video.  I cannot find the one with English subtitles but those who speak Arabic or Dutch (I'm guessing that the video has Dutch subtitles) will understand it.

 

What a tragedy.

And btw what's up brother Waseem?

Edited by Haimi

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54 minutes ago, Haimi said:

What a tragedy.

And btw what's up brother Waseem?

Salaam brother, not much. Just got into work, how's it goin?

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2 hours ago, Alzaynebia313 said:

Since when does "Suhaba" encompass these five individuals?

Those four individuals are by the standard Sunni and Shia definition , Sahaba.

If you aren't aware of the definition of Sahaba, as per Shia standard then read this:

A Sahabi (pl. Sahabah) or “Companion”, is someone who met the Prophet (S), believed in him and died a Muslim.
Source: Introduction to Hadith including Dirayat Al-Hadith, Shahid Al Thani – pg 25 – Section IV (terminology pertaining to the names and generations of reporters)

 

Quote

By your logic then "aal" also includes companions, so why do they need their own segment (wa suhbihi) but his holy progeny are just swept under companions? 

The answer to this is resent in the quote you quoted. Try to reflect on the verse of Quran I gave.

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Bill Clinton was the governor of Arkansas and then became the President of the US. No one calls him Mr. Governor any more because he obtained a higher status of President.

Calling Ali, Fatima, Hasan, Husain (as) sahaba is accurate but at the same time insulting because it is not refering to their higher status of Ahle.

By @AbbaJaan, ayah tatheer would be applicable on all muslims since we are all from Ale-rasool and yet I find plenty of utterly filthy Muslims.

Moreover, let's put it this - there is no comparison between the people who participated in Mubahila aka the Truthful Ones versus the rest whoever they may be.

Edited by shiaman14

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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Bill Clinton was the governor of Arkansas and then became the President of the US. No one calls him Mr. Governor any more because he obtained a higher status of President.

Calling Ali, Fatima, Hasan, Husain (as) sahaba is accurate but at the same time insulting because it is not refering to their higher status of Ahle.

You actually insulted your intellect.

Was Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) an Imam ?

If your response is Yes, then my next question will be:

Is Imam superior to Prophet?

If your answer is Yes.

Then it means Allah is Ma'azAllah insulting Muhammad(pbuh) by calling him a Prophet, because it is not refering to his higher status of Imam.

 

Quote

By @AbbaJaan, ayah tatheer would be applicable on all muslims since we are all from Ale-rasool and yet I find plenty of utterly filthy Muslims.

No, it won't because it is only for wives of Prophet and Ahl Kisa.

 

Quote

Moreover, let's put it this - there is no comparison between the people who participated in Mubahila aka the Truthful Ones versus the rest whoever they may be.

No, one is making any comparison here, its just an explanation of aal in the Salawat, which means righteous followers, and Proofs have already been given for this, in my previous posts.

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17 hours ago, AbbaJaan said:

You actually insulted your intellect.

Was Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) an Imam ?

If your response is Yes, then my next question will be:

Is Imam superior to Prophet?

If your answer is Yes.

Then it means Allah is Ma'azAllah insulting Muhammad(pbuh) by calling him a Prophet, because it is not refering to his higher status of Imam.

The Prophet (saw) is superior to all creation including the 12 imams. Prophethood has different levels and the highest level of Prophethood which only Prophet Muhammad (saw) possessed is higher than that of Imam hence he will continue to be referred to as Prophet

Perhaps you missed this salient point because Caliph Umar thinks himself equal to the Prophet.

18 hours ago, AbbaJaan said:

No, it won't because it is only for wives of Prophet and Ahl Kisa.

Ahle-Kisa is not mentioned in the Quran in 33:33 only Ahle-Bayt. So according to you all Muslims come under the blanket of Ayah Tatheer.

18 hours ago, AbbaJaan said:

No, one is making any comparison here, its just an explanation of aal in the Salawat, which means righteous followers, and Proofs have already been given for this, in my previous posts.

The entire discussion is a comparison.

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3 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

The Prophet (saw) is superior to all creation including the 12 imams. Prophethood has different levels and the highest level of Prophethood which only Prophet Muhammad (saw) possessed is higher than that of Imam hence he will continue to be referred to as Prophet

ROFL. No more discussion with you. The simple question was is Imamate superior to Prophethood or not.?

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20 minutes ago, AbbaJaan said:

ROFL. No more discussion with you. The simple question was is Imamate superior to Prophethood or not.?

Hierarchy of People:

Prophet Muhammad (saw)
12 Imams
Arch Prophets (Nuh, Ibrahim, Musa, Isa - as)
Other Prophets

Its funny that you go into long non-sensical details trying to defend the caliphs but such a simple concept is beyond your comprehension. I guess when Allah seals, He really seals.

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On 19/09/2016 at 1:11 AM, AbbaJaan said:

You have failed to understand this view brother.

Aalihi is his followers, i didn't say family.

Thank Allah(swt) that for the hard of understanding and or lingual gymnasts the Holy Prophet(sawws) also used the term Itrat e Ahlybayti.

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1 hour ago, haideriam said:

Thank Allah(swt) that for the hard of understanding and or lingual gymnasts the Holy Prophet(sawws) also used the term Itrat e Ahlybayti.

Prophet(pbuh) also used to term Azwaajihi wa Dhurriyatihi(his wives and his offspring).

اللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَأَزْوَاجِهِ وَذُرِّيَّتِهِ كَمَا صَلَّيْتَ عَلَى آلِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَبَارِكْ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَأَزْوَاجِهِ وَذُرِّيَّتِهِ كَمَا بَارَكْتَ عَلَى آلِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ إِنَّكَ حَمِيدٌ مَجِيدٌ

O Allah! bless Muhammad, his wives and his offspring as Thou didst bless Ibrahim, and grant favours to Muhammad, and his wives and his offspring as Thou didst grant favours to the aal of Ibrahim; Thou art Praiseworthy and Glorious.

(Sahih muslim #407 )

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8 hours ago, AbbaJaan said:

Prophet(pbuh) also used to term Azwaajihi wa Dhurriyatihi(his wives and his offspring).

اللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَأَزْوَاجِهِ وَذُرِّيَّتِهِ كَمَا صَلَّيْتَ عَلَى آلِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَبَارِكْ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَأَزْوَاجِهِ وَذُرِّيَّتِهِ كَمَا بَارَكْتَ عَلَى آلِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ إِنَّكَ حَمِيدٌ مَجِيدٌ

O Allah! bless Muhammad, his wives and his offspring as Thou didst bless Ibrahim, and grant favours to Muhammad, and his wives and his offspring as Thou didst grant favours to the aal of Ibrahim; Thou art Praiseworthy and Glorious.

(Sahih muslim #407 )

The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman) left2.gif right2.gif

Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 407

This hadith was narrated by A'mash on the authority of the same chain of narrators and he said: One day the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) climbed the hill of Safa' and said: Be on your guard, and the rest of the hadith was narrated like the hadith transmitted by Usama; he made no mention of the revelation of the verse:" Warn thy nearest kindred."

any way the kama salaita takes away all made up ahadith and conjecture...salawat of Ibrahim(as) is only upon his aal. 

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22 hours ago, AbbaJaan said:

And his aal here can mean followers.

Subhanallah, you here know what Aal means and everyone else has been mislead from the beginnings of Islam. Actually it is a recent Salafi innovation.

Aal in Ibrahim(as) wanting Imamah in his zuriyati

Aal in Hadith e Kisa leading to the verse 33:33

Aal in Hadith e Thaqlain as Itriti Ahlibayte.

What I find strange is that when it comes to us saying that the Aal is only the five under the cloak you take great pains to say that it includes the wives too and have even innovated wa ashabihi as if they were not part of the original Aal.  I have even heard wa azwajihi when the innovated darood has been recited.

The kama salaita has sealed and put an end to all your innovations.

 

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