Men's interpretation of 'right' and 'wrong' hijab?

[Alzaynebia313]

How do men interupt what's right and what's wrong when it comes to the Hijab? Is what attracts their attention wrong? 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by Haydar Husayn
Spelling

[Ali al-Abdullah]

Salam.

If you wear a hijab, do it properly. If not, don't bother.

[starlight]

6 hours ago, Ali al-Abdullah said:

If you wear a hijab, do it properly. If not, don't bother.

Why not? And how would you define proper hijab.

Edited September 18, 2016 by starlight

[Haimi]

Assalam.

Can we stop arguments please, instead of reading Shahid Mutahhari r.a books about the humans right, men and women hijab please?:)

Like our dearest sister @hameedeh

We need to link (references) Islamic laws or what our authorized authors says about such matters instead of our own opinions.(some opinions aren't based one islamic laws sadly and they are personal, especially in Fiqh and Ahkam while we've a Marja'a to ask)

Wassalam.

[Asr]

You cant leave it to mens interpretation of appropriate ladies hijab.  Thier ideas will vary from person to person.. Its your responsibilty to find out the requirements and apply accordingly.  Regardless of what you wear someone will always object; why is your face not covered? Why is it covered?  You should be wearing abaya!  No patterns or colours allowed!  Endless list of questions and judgements.  Ignore and don what you deem appropriate.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2016 by Asr

[Soldiers and Saffron]

16 hours ago, Alzaynebia313 said:

How do men interupt what's right and what's wrong when it comes to the Hijab? Is what attracts their attention wrong? 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Salam, to me as a man the proper hijab is the one that is not causing unnecessary attention, such as something shiny, such as extra skin showing, make up, tight clothes that shows figure, strong colors (bright red), clothes that makes noise (such as stiletto shoes), and such things.

The best hijab is the hijab of seyyeda Zahra(as).

@Haimi

Brother, if you have read this book that you are recommending us and you or sis hameedeh knows the right answer, then why dont you enlighten the rest of us instead of shutting down a much needed debate?

 

6 hours ago, Asr said:

 Ignore and don what you deem appropriate.

Salam sis, I do not think its a wise thing to say such a thing. If you confess no human will ever be happy regardless of how you wear the hijab, then the natural conclusion is that you should wear that which makes Allah(SWT) happy and do what you deem is His will, not your will. Unless you want to follow yourself and not Allah(SWT) so the discussion is really what does Allah(SWT) want of us, what can we learn thru the practices of Ahlul beyt(as) that are His perfect examples of His will?

 

[Haimi]

Assalam.

I didn't, I just said it's better we link some references verses hadith etc while we share our thoughts.

Wassalam.

 

[Soldiers and Saffron]

11 minutes ago, Haimi said:

Assalam.

I didn't, I just said it's better we link some references verses hadith etc while we share our thoughts.

Wassalam.

 

Ws,

I understood what you meant brother, but I meant maybe you can share your thoughts that you have references too as well?

[Haimi]

Just now, IbnSina said:

Ws,

I understood what you meant brother, but I meant maybe you can share your thoughts that you have references too as well?

I know when to do that brother, I just didn't find it as a right moment.

[Hameedeh]

16 hours ago, Haimi said:

Like our dearest sister @hameedeh

We need to link (references) Islamic laws or what our authorized authors says about such matters instead of our own opinions.

5 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Ws,

I understood what you meant brother, but I meant maybe you can share your thoughts that you have references too as well?

Please see the link to "Quality of Hijab and the Social Relation of Men and Women" in the Sisters Forum:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/30563-books-on-family-and-womens-issues/?do=findComment&comment=2955911

[rkazmi33]

I think that men have different interpretation of hijab. I was once watching interview of a flirt actor. He was telling about how he chose his wife. He said I had affairs with so many girls. When I met my wife, I thought if she can handle a guy like me, then she really has strong character. That's when I decided to marry her. Unfortunately this is hijab's interpretation by society. Islam says that you need to cover yourself and don't attract attention  by the way you talk or your body language, minimum interaction with men and you have done your part. But the society says that you need to interact with every kind of man and you have to prove that you are not attracted to anyone. Girls/ women who have a lot of male friends but they don't marry their friends and they pretend that all of those guys are just 'friends', such women are considered to have a strong character. 

I watched a clip of bachelor in which Chris Harrison was having a talk with one of the girls from the show because she had an affair with one of the producers. It was so hilarious. Chris Harrison acting so disappointed and 'holier than thou' and judging that girl. But that girl didn't look ashamed at all. It was funny: host of bachelor judging a woman's character. 

[Iman]

On ‎18‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 7:46 AM, Ali al-Abdullah said:

Salam.

If you wear a hijab, do it properly. If not, don't bother.

Really? What is "properly"?

It is these words in my experience in discussion with the younger girls in particular, that are disheartening to the most well-intentioned muslimah.

Shaytan finds what he can to enter the minds of even the most faithful. He places doubt in their mind with comments such as yours, the "oh you may as well not even wear the hijab".

We once had a question and answer session with Sayyid Modaressi at a family members house. Someone asked the question something along the lines of "should girls who wear tight/revealing clothing/make-up, just take off the hijab?" Do you know what his response was?

An unequivocal NO. 

I use this example so that I'm not accused of it being "my opinion".

So, can the community (both men and women) please stop berating these girls/women? No one is better than anyone else.. we are all on a path inshallah to better ourselves.

[DigitalUmmah]

Personally I have a "no comment" policy on how other adults choose to dress. I prefer to lower my gaze and mind my own business, I suggest other brothers do the same. 

[Haimi]

10 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Personally I have a "no comment" policy on how other adults choose to dress. I prefer to lower my gaze and mind my own business, I suggest other brothers do the same. 

Yeah, let's forget about: amri bil ma'arof wa nahy men al-monkar:p

[DigitalUmmah]

7 minutes ago, Haimi said:

Yeah, let's forget about: amri bil ma'arof wa nahy men al-monkar:p

but where do we draw the line, when it comes to amr bil maroof and naiy hanil munkar? can I go out on to the street right now and start telling everyone who is not dressed islamically that they are sinning? if you know your words have no influence, is there any point? what about akhlaaq? is it good akhlaaq to be looking at sisters, and telling them in public that you do not agree with how they dress?

[Haimi]

1 minute ago, DigitalUmmah said:

but where do we draw the line, when it comes to amr bil maroof and naiy hanil munkar? can I go out on to the street right now and start telling everyone who is not dressed islamically that they are sinning? if you know your words have no influence, is there any point? what about akhlaaq? is it good akhlaaq to be looking at sisters, and telling them in public that you do not agree with how they dress?

Your can do it by a conference or a public lecture, instead of face to face.

Plus brother, this is our brothers and sisters forum, and they aren't just some random women in London Street or anywhere.

[DigitalUmmah]

2 minutes ago, Haimi said:

Plus brother, this is our brothers and sisters forum, and they aren't just some random women in London Street or anywhere.

I do not agree with "moral police" in any sense. In the rule of Rasool e Khuda (pbuh) or Ameerul Momineen (as) there was no "police" system. if someone is an adult, then they should be able to dress however they want to. there's already far too many hijabi bashing resources and conferences and lectures and websites and threads. hijabis are suffering enough with islamophobia, I think we brothers need to take a step back and chill out and let them dress however they feel is appropriate. its just none of our business. 

[Haimi]

7 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I do not agree with "moral police" in any sense. In the rule of Rasool e Khuda (pbuh) or Ameerul Momineen (as) there was no "police" system. if someone is an adult, then they should be able to dress however they want to. there's already far too many hijabi bashing resources and conferences and lectures and websites and threads. hijabis are suffering enough with islamophobia, I think we brothers need to take a step back and chill out and let them dress however they feel is appropriate. its just none of our business. 

If you say so then.

[Iman]

DigitalUmmah, I appreciate your comment!  

[DigitalUmmah]

9 minutes ago, Iman said:

DigitalUmmah, I appreciate your comment!  

at your service ma'am

[Ali al-Abdullah]

1 hour ago, Iman said:

Really? What is "properly"?

It is these words in my experience in discussion with the younger girls in particular, that are disheartening to the most well-intentioned muslimah.

Shaytan finds what he can to enter the minds of even the most faithful. He places doubt in their mind with comments such as yours, the "oh you may as well not even wear the hijab".

We once had a question and answer session with Sayyid Modaressi at a family members house. Someone asked the question something along the lines of "should girls who wear tight/revealing clothing/make-up, just take off the hijab?" Do you know what his response was?

An unequivocal NO. 

I use this example so that I'm not accused of it being "my opinion".

So, can the community (both men and women) please stop berating these girls/women? No one is better than anyone else.. we are all on a path inshallah to better ourselves.

Yes, and shaytan also finds doubt to make you wear revealing clothing and make up. I'm not sure what it is about my comment that you disagree so you had to write this.

[Iman]

Brother, your comment re "if you're not in proper hijab don't bother" is actually counter-productive than actually helpful when it comes to advising or giving nasiha to the girls in question. Planting that seed of removal of hijab is what you are doing by making those comments. Hijab on is better than hijab off. Sure there is the BIG element of modesty, but there is also the part where it is the symbol and flag as a muslimah. The hijab has more than a few roles to play, and just because someone isn't "properly" (your words) fulfilling one part, doesn't mean, as the saying goes, that you 'throw the baby out with the bath water" so to speak.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

8 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Personally I have a "no comment" policy on how other adults choose to dress. I prefer to lower my gaze and mind my own business, I suggest other brothers do the same. 

Hmm, do you have the same policy regarding your own sister? She might be an adult as well no?

If you would care enough to look after her, why would you not look after your other sisters as well, the sisters in your faith? I feel this "mind my own business" mentality is selfish and I think too many people look after their own business instead of looking after each other, not just in this hijab aspect but in all aspects of life.

I believe there are forces at work that wishes to diminish our sisters hijab, step by step, and these forces are in fact led by men which in turn are led by ibliss(la). What is your responsibility facing such forces? To mind your own business?

[DigitalUmmah]

1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

Hmm, do you have the same policy regarding your own sister? She might be an adult as well no?

my sister? no. thats my dads job in raising her. if by the time she is an adult and she still does not observe hijab? what shall I do? beat her?

1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

If you would care enough to look after her, why would you not look after your other sisters as well, the sisters in your faith? I feel this "mind my own business" mentality is selfish and I think too many people look after their own business instead of looking after each other, not just in this hijab aspect but in all aspects of life.

our sisters do not need mens "protection". this is a really bad attitude to have, and is very patronising. In countries where hijab is mandated by law, do women not be harrassed? does rape or molestation not exist?

1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

What is your responsibility facing such forces? To mind your own business?

my responsibility is towards myself, and my very limited sphere of influence outside my family.

 

[Soldiers and Saffron]

9 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

my sister? no. thats my dads job in raising her. if by the time she is an adult and she still does not observe hijab? what shall I do? beat her?

Its not a question of raising anyone. Its a question of being there for them and caring about them enough to take your own time and talk to them. Not in a bossy way, but as a brother would talk to his sister.

For example, if your sister went out in a mini skirt God forbid, and she was adult and her father couldnt care less about her, would you also not care or would you try and talk to her?

 

9 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

our sisters do not need mens "protection". this is a really bad attitude to have, and is very patronising. In countries where hijab is mandated by law, do women not be harrassed? does rape or molestation not exist?

Please dont bring feminist slogans if you want to debate with me as an adult person.

It is not a questions of: me strong, me protect you.

If your trying to simplify the situation like that, then i dont think there is any point talking.

Have you ever thought about something? When women start to dress really badly, is it not because of men? Is it not so that men are the cause of the bad hijab? For example sister Iman brought up some very important issues in another thread, such as true hijabis dont get proposals, insecurity of women due to social circumstances leading to them to wear less hijab/drop hijab , etc.

More so, look at todays fashion, the designers, many of them are men as well.

So if a group of men are a major part of the downfall of the islamic hijab for women shouldnt there be a group of men that also supports the female hijab in whatever way they can? Or should the second group of men keep their business to themselves? 

I do not see how the crimes towards women being found everywhere in the world has anything to do with our discussion. A muslima can only do as much as Allah(SWT) wants of her, then if some man transgresses, it is on him and Allah(SWT) will protect her and if he does such a thing towards her, be sure that everything is written down and everything will be accounted for.

 

9 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

my responsibility is towards myself, and my very limited sphere of influence outside my family.

Maybe this is where our mindsets vary, I feel responsibility for the state of the society I live in, I feel partly to blame for the moral state of my environment and I feel we all have a responsibility to struggle against whoever/whatever is causing the downfall in whatever way we can, whether its a question of female hijab, mens hijab, abuse of mutah, etc, etc. 

[Alzaynebia313]

19 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

Personally I have a "no comment" policy on how other adults choose to dress. I prefer to lower my gaze and mind my own business, I suggest other brothers do the same. 

I'm not asking this question because I base my hijab off on how men think I should dress or adapt it to suit their definition of it. I'm asking it because I want to see where they draw the line in what they consider a hijab. I've seen a lot of men lately complain about the female hijab and how attractive it is becoming. Perhaps their interpretation of wrong hijab is what attracts their attention even though it might not actually be attracting in itself

Edited September 21, 2016 by Alzaynebia313

[notme]

Moderator note: off topic posts hidden. Focus. This discussion is about what aspects of hijab (or lack thereof) men notice. Remember to discuss this topic. Start a new thread to discuss other matters. Thanks for your cooperation.

[Sumerian]

On 9/20/2016 at 9:22 PM, DigitalUmmah said:

I do not agree with "moral police" in any sense. In the rule of Rasool e Khuda (pbuh) or Ameerul Momineen (as) there was no "police" system. if someone is an adult, then they should be able to dress however they want to. there's already far too many hijabi bashing resources and conferences and lectures and websites and threads. hijabis are suffering enough with islamophobia, I think we brothers need to take a step back and chill out and let them dress however they feel is appropriate. its just none of our business. 

The Prophet commanded use to police each other. Called Amr bil Mar'uf and Nahi an Al-Munkar.

I'm sure you know - the Prophet [saww] applied Islamic Law?

Edited September 21, 2016 by E.L King

[Sumerian]

It's not men interpreting hijab because they are "misogynistic" or "backward" or "part of the patriarchy" and whatever feminists say, it's religious scriptures telling us what proper hijab is.

 

[Reza]

Thread moved to The Thinkers Discourse to ensure discussion quality. 

This issue can be freely discussed by both men and women, as it's a public garb that impacts both genders in society.

[enigma313]

I should not have referred to @IbnSina comments as pathetic, it was out of order for me to do so.  Thank you for bringing this to my attention.  I do apologise. 

[awaitingyou1]

On 9/20/2016 at 4:20 PM, Iman said:

Really? What is "properly"?

It is these words in my experience in discussion with the younger girls in particular, that are disheartening to the most well-intentioned muslimah.

Shaytan finds what he can to enter the minds of even the most faithful. He places doubt in their mind with comments such as yours, the "oh you may as well not even wear the hijab".

We once had a question and answer session with Sayyid Modaressi at a family members house. Someone asked the question something along the lines of "should girls who wear tight/revealing clothing/make-up, just take off the hijab?" Do you know what his response was?

An unequivocal NO. 

I use this example so that I'm not accused of it being "my opinion".

So, can the community (both men and women) please stop berating these girls/women? No one is better than anyone else.. we are all on a path inshallah to better ourselves.

 

i agree with that. after revolution even imam khomeini was told that during shahs regime, we were forced to remove hijab. so now throw away the people who r not doing proper hijab. imam khomeini said that if i tell them so they wont do the small covering they r atleast doing nw.

even imam khameini has the same answer now!

[Iman]

23 hours ago, E.L King said:

The Prophet commanded use to police each other. Called Amr bil Mar'uf and Nahi an Al-Munkar.

I'm sure you know - the Prophet [saww] applied Islamic Law?

Islamically, nasiha is done privately, not publicly.

And who is best to speak to a sister "privately"? Certainly not a random guy off the street. Only a mahram would be appropriate to give such nasiha in this context, such as parents, siblngs.

Again. It's nasiha.. not a verbal/physical/emotional beating.

[Sumerian]

43 minutes ago, Iman said:

Islamically, nasiha is done privately, not publicly.

And who is best to speak to a sister "privately"? Certainly not a random guy off the street. Only a mahram would be appropriate to give such nasiha in this context, such as parents, siblngs.

Again. It's nasiha.. not a verbal/physical/emotional beating.

Guess you haven't read the Islamic Laws concerning this topic. Here:

http://www.islamic-laws.com/AmrBilMaroof.htm

There are different degrees of Commanding the Good and Forbidding the Evil. Sometimes harsher methods are wajib.

[Guest silasun]

Amr Bil Maroof and Nahi an Al Munkar are wajib, but only when the conditions apply, one of which is possibilty of success. We still have an obligation to show our dissaproval even if we don't think there is a chance of success- e.g. if I saw my friend drinking alcohol or swearing, I wouldn't walk up to him smiling else he will think I am supportive/don't care about the sin.

We should also remember that our methods of amr bil maroof and nahi an al munkar should not cause people to dislike religion or religious people.

There are two extremes: Shaytani "ain't nobody tell me nothing" and Shaytani "I am better than x sinner; you can all go to hell". Both are wrong.

We all need to work together to improve hijab practice amongst men and women. In my opinion, it would be wrong for me (as a guy) to openly try to advise a random woman with deficient hijab in the West, because that is basically not going to help anybody.

What we need to do is listen to each other (listen to those of us who want to fulfill this divine obligation but have different views on how to do that, as opposed to those who wish to allow others to fall into sin) so that we can work out the best way to promote good hijab practice.

On another note, I have a very significant concern and that is why it is that a lot of sisters and brothers are in great disagreement about how to promote good hijab practice. Why is it that a lot of sisters seem to be in favour of a more "relaxed" approach? Perhaps the reason is because it is hard enough being a make-up, high heels and tight clothes wearing headscarved lady in the West, and sisters realise the difficulties that even deficient hijab wearing sisters have to go through.

I think this emphasises why we all need to work together to find a solution. We need to unite to work out the course of action that pleases God the most, that is the action which is most effective.

The Qur'an talks about how the Prophet was mocked for being "an ear"! He used to listen to others! We need to do the same whilst trying to serve only God, inshAllah.

Edited September 22, 2016 by silasun