What would have happened if....

[Ibn Faisal]

Salam Alaykum to you all,

I have a simple question about the practicality of 12 Imams.

Assume Allahs will goes to plan and Ali becomes the leader of the Ummah after the Prophet Peace be upon him, then he passes it onto Al Hassan, then to Al Hussain and so on.

When we reach the 12th Imam, Imam Al Mahdi - what happens?

He will not need to go into hiding, because no one is after his blood. So will he pass on the Imamate to a 13th Imam? Or will the world end after Imam Al Mahdi dies?

[Reza]

Why, when, or how would any of them die? None of them died a natural death, they were all murdered, so we don't know how long they would have lived. But Allah can make any human being live for hundreds/thousands of years. What's stopping these twelve from covering the whole period of the end of prophethood to Qiyamat? Allah does not leave humanity without a living guide even for a second. 

Interesting question, but pure speculations. Allahu alam. 

[Haimi]

19 minutes ago, Ibn Faisal said:

Salam Alaykum to you all,

I have a simple question about the practicality of 12 Imams.

Assume Allahs will goes to plan and Ali becomes the leader of the Ummah after the Prophet Peace be upon him, then he passes it onto Al Hassan, then to Al Hussain and so on.

When we reach the 12th Imam, Imam Al Mahdi - what happens?

He will not need to go into hiding, because no one is after his blood. So will he pass on the Imamate to a 13th Imam? Or will the world end after Imam Al Mahdi dies?

Assalam Alaykom.

Welcome to the forum ya ibn Faisal:-)

He will die ( will be murder) after years and imam Hussain a.s will do the Ghusl on him(since only an imam can do the Ghusl on an another imam)

This is the shirt story since it's a very long story.

Then again all the imams will rule again but this time they will kill their enemies, the history not gonna repeat like before.

Wassalam.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Haimi

[Lordofgemini]

Well as the story goes,

Islam wpuld prevail all over the world. The race of humanity becomes perfect. I read once if humans stop sinning God will bring in a new creation in their place. So humans would end. And we would all be in jannah. 

But then again i ask you the same?

Practicality of asking Adam not to rat from the tree? And creating him.

What would happen to the human race if he never fell into temptation?

 

The question involves the will of God. Which is a question of marifat of God.

 

Did Allah Willed adam to eat the fruit? Did Allah want adam to eat the fruit? Did Allah know Adam will eat the fruit? Why did he order Adam to not eat the fruit?

Answer these questions might help answering the one you asked.

[Ibn Faisal]

@magma Thank you for your input. Stating the Imams could live forever had they not been killed, is also speculation? 

Thank you for having me @Haimi. What you said does not answer my question. Assume the hypothetical scenario where the Sahaba and their successors actually listened to the Prophet Peace be upon him and took the Imams up to the 12 as leaders. When Imam Mahdi dies, will there be a 13th Imam? Or will Al Hussain come back and be the Imam when he performs ghusl on Imam Mahdi? or are there no more Imams and the world ends?

@Lordofgemini Good point, but my question isn't about why Allah willed or did not will something. Rather it's if the Shi'i narrative of what was meant to happen comes true, what happens after the 12th Imam?

If we assume that Allah willed them NOT to gain leadership, then this would be a contradiction as he supposedly commanded the Ummah to take them as leaders - Yet he didn't allow it to happen.

If we assumed that Allah had willed them to gain leadership, then what he willed did not come true.

[Haimi]

1 minute ago, Ibn Faisal said:

@magma Thank you for your input. Stating the Imams could live forever had they not been killed, is also speculation? 

Thank you for having me @Haimi. What you said does not answer my question. Assume the hypothetical scenario where the Sahaba and their successors actually listened to the Prophet Peace be upon him and took the Imams up to the 12 as leaders. When Imam Mahdi dies, will there be a 13th Imam? Or will Al Hussain come back and be the Imam when he performs ghusl on Imam Mahdi? or are there no more Imams and the world ends?

Assalam.

Already explained it, try to reread it again please:-)

Wassalam.

[Lordofgemini]

Al kafi.

H 381, Ch. 26, h4

abu al-Hassan, recipient of divine supreme covenant, who said the following: “Allah has two kinds of will and wish. He has a definite will and an intended will. He prohibits but He wants it. He commands but He does not want it. Consider that He prohibited Adam and his spouse from eating of the tree but He wanted them to eat. Had He not wanted their wish would not have materialized against Allah’s wish. He commanded Ibrahim to slaughter Ishaq (Isaac) but He did not want it to happen. Had He wanted it the wish of Ibrahim would not have materialized against the wish of Allah, the Most High.”

This answers your question.

 

I already answered you in my previous comment. What might have had happened. End of the world with the death of the last Imam perhaps. 

But Allahs works mysteriously. Whatever Happened was to create a test and was all according to His will. But his command was to follow the imams. Who ever did and try would earm His pleasure.

 

[Reza]

35 minutes ago, Ibn Faisal said:

If we assume that Allah willed them NOT to gain leadership, then this would be a contradiction as he supposedly commanded the Ummah to take them as leaders - Yet he didn't allow it to happen.

If we assumed that Allah had willed them to gain leadership, then what he willed did not come true

Allah did will them to gain leadership. They were leaders of the ummah, spiritually, politically, and in every other dimension. The position of "caliph" is a dunya position with no external legitimacy beyond its own self-declaration, whose institution is not the final arbiter of who has "leadership" or not. Regardless of how many abandoned them (either through ignorance or spite) is inconsequential. People are free to reject and abandon, just as they can with the Qur'an, the Imam's inseparable twin. But that doesn't affect the status of either one notch. 

A more important question might be instead of what Allah does, what do humans do?

Edited September 14, 2016 by magma

[ShiaMan14]

3 hours ago, Ibn Faisal said:

Salam Alaykum to you all,

I have a simple question about the practicality of 12 Imams.

Assume Allahs will goes to plan and Ali becomes the leader of the Ummah after the Prophet Peace be upon him, then he passes it onto Al Hassan, then to Al Hussain and so on.

When we reach the 12th Imam, Imam Al Mahdi - what happens?

He will not need to go into hiding, because no one is after his blood. So will he pass on the Imamate to a 13th Imam? Or will the world end after Imam Al Mahdi dies?

Good question brother. Per the shia belief, the earth (universe???) can't exist without an Imam.

So either the world would come to an end upon the death of the 12th Imam or the number of Imams would increase to meet the end of the world.

It would be up to Allah whether he chooses to end the world with the death of the 12th or increase the number of Imams.

Edited September 14, 2016 by shiaman14

[Unity4Imam]

7 hours ago, Ibn Faisal said:

Salam Alaykum to you all,

I have a simple question about the practicality of 12 Imams.

Assume Allahs will goes to plan and Ali becomes the leader of the Ummah after the Prophet Peace be upon him, then he passes it onto Al Hassan, then to Al Hussain and so on.

When we reach the 12th Imam, Imam Al Mahdi - what happens?

He will not need to go into hiding, because no one is after his blood. So will he pass on the Imamate to a 13th Imam? Or will the world end after Imam Al Mahdi dies?

Walaykum salam

BIsmillah.

What do you mean by assume?? Imam Ali a.s did BECOME the LEADER/IMAM OF the BELIEVERS! Just because people who was deceived by Shayton and did not  accept him as an Imam/Leader does not mean he did not become one. Now read your own books about a hadith that says "whoever does not recognize his Imam of the time when he dies, he will die the death of jailia.

Wasalam.

[Unity4Imam]

8 hours ago, Ibn Faisal said:

Salam Alaykum to you all,

I have a simple question about the practicality of 12 Imams.

Assume Allahs will goes to plan and Ali becomes the leader of the Ummah after the Prophet Peace be upon him, then he passes it onto Al Hassan, then to Al Hussain and so on.

When we reach the 12th Imam, Imam Al Mahdi - what happens?

He will not need to go into hiding, because no one is after his blood. So will he pass on the Imamate to a 13th Imam? Or will the world end after Imam Al Mahdi dies?

Bismillah

I know the picture on your profile is not you, because he doesn't speak fluent English, here is the real Wahabi/Salafi guy that you put his picture on your profile, his name is Uthman Al Khamees.

I wanted to say that you are a Wahabi/Salafi on my first reply  but then I wouldn't be fare to SC members  without proof, here is the proof and I rest my case.