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In the Name of God بسم الله

Accept marriage & permanently leave your country?

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Salaam alaykum.  
(I am actually not a new member, but I haven't been on in a long time and forgot my login info). 

Question for you all: if you were approached for marriage by a pious mo'min who is an excellent match for you BUT wants you to leave your country (US, or any other first world country) to permanently live in his country (3rd world middle eastern country that oppresses women and minorities), would you accept?  Why or why not? Curious to see what others think.  

(side note: obviously istikhara is a good solution if one is really torn, but I'm curious to know your initial reactions.  As you know, part of istikhara is seeking the opinions and thoughts of others).  

JazakAllah khayr.  

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1 minute ago, sakina.roses said:

Salaam alaykum.  
(I am actually not a new member, but I haven't been on in a long time and forgot my login info). 

Question for you all: if you were approached for marriage by a pious mo'min who is an excellent match for you BUT wants you to leave your country (US, or any other first world country) to permanently live in his country (3rd world middle eastern country that oppresses women and minorities), would you accept?  Why or why not? Curious to see what others think.  

(side note: obviously istikhara is a good solution if one is really torn, but I'm curious to know your initial reactions.  As you know, part of istikhara is seeking the opinions and thoughts of others).  

JazakAllah khayr.  

Salaam sister - depends on the country. 

UAE, Bahrain. Kuwait, Qatar, Oman are okay. 
Saudi not so much.

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1 minute ago, shiaman14 said:

Salaam sister - depends on the country. 

UAE, Bahrain. Kuwait, Qatar, Oman are okay. 
Saudi not so much.

wa alaykum salaam, thanks for your response  Would you mind sharing why?  (I'm quite familiar with the countries in the ME, but I'm curious about your personal thoughts).  

 

 

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5 minutes ago, sakina.roses said:

wa alaykum salaam, thanks for your response  Would you mind sharing why?  (I'm quite familiar with the countries in the ME, but I'm curious about your personal thoughts).  

In Saudi, women are not allowed to drive and I believe to be accompanied by a mahram (someone they are related to).

The other ME countries are more open. Women are allowed to move around freely and dress in western clothing (not too liberal though).

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8 minutes ago, sakina.roses said:

Salaam alaykum.  
(I am actually not a new member, but I haven't been on in a long time and forgot my login info). 

Question for you all: if you were approached for marriage by a pious mo'min who is an excellent match for you BUT wants you to leave your country (US, or any other first world country) to permanently live in his country (3rd world middle eastern country that oppresses women and minorities), would you accept?  Why or why not? Curious to see what others think.  

(side note: obviously istikhara is a good solution if one is really torn, but I'm curious to know your initial reactions.  As you know, part of istikhara is seeking the opinions and thoughts of others).  

JazakAllah khayr.  

Alaikis Salaam sister,

You should look for the society within the 3rd world ME country. It could happen that the family background or the place he's taking you is not as bad as you think. The guy you like and is an excellent match then you may forward your investigation as to where will be your final destination after marriage.

May Allah (swt) help you.

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1 hour ago, sakina.roses said:

permanently live in his country (3rd world middle eastern country that oppresses women and minorities), would you accept?  Why or why not?

No. There would need to be some compromise. Even if my own safety and the safety of my children could be assured, I couldn't stand silently by while others are abused around me. 

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Just now, Ali al-Abdullah said:

What kind of abuse? In what country?

I don't know. I'm taking the OP at her word. She said a middle eastern country where women and minorities are oppressed. I would not move to a middle eastern country that oppresses women and minorities. I suggested a compromise, which might be perhaps moving to a third country that doesn't oppress women and minorities. 

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1 minute ago, notme said:

I don't know. I'm taking the OP at her word. She said a middle eastern country where women and minorities are oppressed. I would not move to a middle eastern country that oppresses women and minorities. I suggested a compromise, which might be perhaps moving to a third country that doesn't oppress women and minorities. 

Not all middle east countries oppress women

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I get your point OP, but word choice matters because it sounds as if the US didn't oppress minorities, majorities... and the whole world.

Third world destroyed countries aren't the best choice to build a family to be honest. I, personally, wouldn't do so unless I had a personal goal to commit to the progress of my country. It wouldn't be a choice I make out of personal preference at all. The West is not the best place to educate children, yet at the same time it may actually be the best place to do so as well. It mostly depends on your ability to educate your kids and their commitment to learn and improve themselves.

People oftenly argue that muslim countries are better in terms of education and behaviour. I personally see individual freedom (in the legal/social sense) as I see money. The more you have, the more your true self will show. The real benefit of islamic societies are mostly social, or related to social structure. Your children's essence won't change for the society they live in. That changes with knowledge, imaan, worship, inshaAllah. And those aren't dependant on the society you live in. The fact you face more struggle is exactly as the case of the man who has much money. He may find it harder not to spend any cent in haraam. You have a bigger sense of inner and outer individual freedom (legally and socially you have plenty of freedom, and you will feel even more free or motivated to do what you want when you see everyone doing whatever they want and enjoying this life). To see this feeling of a bigger individual freedom as a threat to Islam is, in my humble opinion based on the understanding of my religion, pointless. We believe in Islam and its laws because we want, and we reject what is unislamic and haram because we dislike it. Education is about implementing Islam genuinely within our beliefs and essence, not our fears. If fearing western values and lifestyle has anything to do with this situation, maybe it's worth pointing out some of these points.

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3 hours ago, sakina.roses said:

Salaam alaykum.  
(I am actually not a new member, but I haven't been on in a long time and forgot my login info). 

Question for you all: if you were approached for marriage by a pious mo'min who is an excellent match for you BUT wants you to leave your country (US, or any other first world country) to permanently live in his country (3rd world middle eastern country that oppresses women and minorities), would you accept?  Why or why not? Curious to see what others think.  

(side note: obviously istikhara is a good solution if one is really torn, but I'm curious to know your initial reactions.  As you know, part of istikhara is seeking the opinions and thoughts of others).  

JazakAllah khayr.  

If I knew for certain it was a pious mo'min that I could trust, then I would.   If it didn't work out, then I'd question my judgement in recognizing a "pious" mo'min.

It could be a positive thing to find work in the 3rd world country to help contribute to it and develop it, rather than a 1st world country hog all the talent from the 3rd world countries, impeding its development.  Is one point of view.

Asking yourself if you're prepared for adversity is another question, and understanding/identifying those risks should be done.   It seems you have by saying minorities and women are oppressed.  Are you prepared to endure  oppression, or deal with them?  Does that pious mo'min understand you could potentially be putting yourself at risk?  Does he assume that you understand how it is and therefore seemingly dismiss the effort/extent at which you compromised?

Would you have say in your kids direction and movement in life? 

Would he consider your opinions to hold weight?

If he doesn't want to come to your 1st world country, it means to some extent hes being held /tied back.   You should identify why, does he think Western culture/principles that you MAY carry (a handlful or a bunch, who knows) compromise his ideals?   Or is it a family cultural thing where wives go live with their husbands and subsume a womanly gender role?

A pious mo'min doesn't make for a considerate/intelligent person 100% of the time, nor a perfect match.  

 

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I'm a guy, but if one of my female relatives wanted to do this, I would say absolutely not.  

First off, I'm assuming you've lived here your whole life, you've got friends here, majority of your family is here, and you're completely accustomed to living here, with our (American) standard of living.  Basically say goodbye to all of that.  

Secondly, you'll be going to a place where you will be an outsider, you will have diminished rights, your husband will have complete control over you, over any children you may have, and in the event of discord between you two, he will likely easily have the upper hand in any court proceedings.  

Lastly, do you really think this guy is better than anyone you could find here?

Personally, as a guy, I'm not marrying anyone from outside the US.  Doesn't matter if they're from the UAE, England, or even Canada.  Actually, might make an exception for a Canadian.  Also for an Australian.  Maybe.  And that's even if they're willing to come here.  

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JazakAllah khayr everyone for your comments; I appreciated hearing your reactions.  By oppressive third world country... I think you know which country I mean.  Yes, it does somewhat depend on the husband's family and the specific location where the couple would live.  In this particular instance, it would be in a location that has a good mix of foreigners.  But life is still quite restricted for a woman, and systemic oppression against religious minorities is deeply entrenched.  

For me personally, I've always been open to going to the Middle East to live (even that particular country), at least for a while.  I think my hesitation is the permanent aspect of the move.  It's hard for me to commit to that not knowing how I personally would react and adapt to such an environment.  And of course I can't imagine leaving my parents, maybe now might be ok - but later on as they grow older it would be really difficult for me to be far away from them. 

I completely agree with some of the points made above - raising a family in the West is not an easy thing.  I have major concerns about it, with regard to secular schooling, bullying, exposure to toxic and harmful situations too early, drug/alcohol use, immorality, and peer pressure.  The only (very) positive aspect is that they would have a much higher level of education overall comparatively.  I've worked extensively with students from this particular Middle Eastern country and overall their academic skills are quite low.  Some are barely able to read and write in their native language.  Fortunately since my field is education, I can help compensate for that with my own children, so there are some protective factors.  

But really, my main hesitation comes from it being a permanent, forever move.  And it's not really about all the challenges and struggles of the new country - but it's more about what I'd be leaving behind.  Forever.  My family above all.  My fairly independent and very private lifestyle. My freedom of movement, even if the only places I really go to are the gym and the store.  Temperate weather at several points throughout the year, lots of places to go outside in nature (one of my favorite things to do on the weekends).  

Although I've been Muslim for quite some time, only recently have I found myself shifting back (in some ways) and seeing the many positive aspects of my country and culture (despite the wild fanaticism of many Trump supporters and rise in Islamophobia, discrimination against women and minorities, etc.).  It's still pretty good here (comparatively) in many ways.  Yet, it is not a clear-cut decision.  There are many negatives too, particularly when it comes to raising a family. Many of those concerns would be alleviated in the other country. It would be difficult for me to know for sure until I'm actually there in the situation.  So this is why I was curious to know the reactions of others and their thoughts as to why or why not they personally would choose it.  And at the end, if I still continue to feel unsettled, I will do istikhara by Quran to reach a final conclusion.  It's not really about what I personally want or feel at this particular moment; I just want to follow Allah's will for my life, insha Allah. 

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