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In the Name of God بسم الله

The modern hijab of women and the best one

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1 hour ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I definitely agree that Hijab must be properly worn in a way that everyone should be able to tell that the girl is modest.

I never implied that fashion in a sense that your hair is half covered or anything. What I meant by fashion is, to let sisters have some sort of flexibility to be creative, in a sense that they can style it nicely (colourful/matching) but within certain limits. 

By your point I get an impression of a big black gown worn so please correct me, if I am wrong. So what Is exactly your definition of the way hijab should be worn? Make it a bit clear to me. 

Brother, what is the core purpose of fashionable clothing? And how does that correlate to the core purpose of the hijab?

My personal definition of the ideal hijab does not matter much because, first of all, I am no one, second of all we as shias already have the answers thru Ahlul Bayt(as).

Allah swt is my witness that this thread was never created with the aim of ever shaming anyone or try and make people feel bad about themselves or whatever. The purpose of this thread is to define the ideal hijab and compare it to the modern day fashion hijab and then to ask ourselves how this could have happened and why it did happened.

To define the causes of lowering the degree of hijab and to define external factors which affects our decisions. This thread, although some people might find it as a sisters shaming thread, is meant to empower our sisters rather than putting them down, thru remembering the core purpose of the hijab and to remember that we do it fi sabilillah.

 

My personal opinion about the above:

Hijab as a concept is becoming hijacked by western culture in a way where they try and make it into just another piece of decorative clothing for beautification and nothing more. Which means they are trying to commercialize the hijab to a degree where they for example are creating luxury brand abayyas.

Hijab in essence is a huge threat to capitalism as a concept, to the materialistic life style that the west is pushing, how much money does non hijabi women not spend to look good in public? 

The purpose of the hijab is to my opinion becoming more and more obscure and its moving into a direction where people are not really sure anymore of the purpose of the hijab, which again to my understanding is partially to lower the male attention you get, not increase it.

Furthermore I believe that the mindset which is being pushed on our sisters and brothers for that sake, is a very shallow mindset where you should please others with your looks and if others dont find you beautiful, then you are not beautiful. 

Then we must define, by whos standard are we setting whats beautiful today? Is it not the hollywood celebrities? When a man or women is deemed beautiful by someone, dont people say: Oh you look like celebrity X?

As a clearing example I can mention that in France many years ago the ideal women and the most beautiful women had: very big hips, overall chubby, short and extremely white/pale skinned. Meanwhile the ideal man was: Also short, also fat, also extremely white/pale skinned.

Today however, the concept of a beautiful women/man in the eyes of the public has severely changed. I am asking, who is setting the standard of whats beautiful here and are we enslaved to follow that by trying to look like them?

Lets say that every popular female celebrity in the world, suddenly started to wear hijab, when they ask them: why? They would simply say that they find its beautiful, then the journalists would agree and write supporting fashion articles of how nice they look. Would you or would you not see non muslim women starting to wear hijab then? 

Heres another example, lets say that there is a sister who wears a head scarf but not an abayya because she sees the head scarf as the correct hijab. When she wakes up and goes outside the house, every single women she sees are suddenly wearing a full dressed abbaya, will she remain wearing a head scarf or will she also start to wear an abayya? Then for what reason did she change and for what reason did she not change before?

Our sisters are much more than just walking objects for men to lustfully stare at. But unfortunately today you see that many women only get their sense of validation of how beautiful they look judged on how much males stare at them or for that matter, how much their female friends compliment them.

I am saying: please recognize the reasons that affect your degree of hijab, recognize the forces that want to undress you and understand that you dont need male validation nor female validation in order to feel good about yourself and the way you look. You dont need to listen to me nor do you need to listen to society about how to look, please dont be a people pleaser but be an Allah pleaser. 

What does Allah swt want for you? We have Ahlul Bayt(as) which are walking examples of perfection and correct interpretation of words of Allah swt. For what reason do we not observe what has been given to us? Is it because of what people around you are going to think about you? You are worried that you wont get married? Is it because you are worried about your job that Al Razzaq/Al-Raziq gave you?

Take me as a person out of the calculation and just reflect on the written words you are reading.

And of course, there are always exceptions, such as a person living in taqqiya or under serious threat. 

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4 hours ago, Hassan- said:

When you say stuff like this: "I think their dress is permissible for single girls. I think girls that are married shouldn't dress like that in public." You are giving false information about Islam to the public. There dress is not permissible, and if they remain dressed like that they will be subjected to the hell fire by Allah.

 

 

You can't say that everyone who does not wear hijab will automatically go to hell. You can't judge any person's fate. 

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18 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Brother, what is the core purpose of fashionable clothing? And how does that correlate to the core purpose of the hijab?

My personal definition of the ideal hijab does not matter much because, first of all, I am no one, second of all we as shias already have the answers thru Ahlul Bayt(as).

Allah swt is my witness that this thread was never created with the aim of ever shaming anyone or try and make people feel bad about themselves or whatever. The purpose of this thread is to define the ideal hijab and compare it to the modern day fashion hijab and then to ask ourselves how this could have happened and why it did happened.

To define the causes of lowering the degree of hijab and to define external factors which affects our decisions. This thread, although some people might find it as a sisters shaming thread, is meant to empower our sisters rather than putting them down, thru remembering the core purpose of the hijab and to remember that we do it fi sabilillah.

 

My personal opinion about the above:

Hijab as a concept is becoming hijacked by western culture in a way where they try and make it into just another piece of decorative clothing for beautification and nothing more. Which means they are trying to commercialize the hijab to a degree where they for example are creating luxury brand abayyas.

Hijab in essence is a huge threat to capitalism as a concept, to the materialistic life style that the west is pushing, how much money does non hijabi women not spend to look good in public? 

The purpose of the hijab is to my opinion becoming more and more obscure and its moving into a direction where people are not really sure anymore of the purpose of the hijab, which again to my understanding is partially to lower the male attention you get, not increase it.

Furthermore I believe that the mindset which is being pushed on our sisters and brothers for that sake, is a very shallow mindset where you should please others with your looks and if others dont find you beautiful, then you are not beautiful. 

Then we must define, by whos standard are we setting whats beautiful today? Is it not the hollywood celebrities? When a man or women is deemed beautiful by someone, dont people say: Oh you look like celebrity X?

As a clearing example I can mention that in France many years ago the ideal women and the most beautiful women had: very big hips, overall chubby, short and extremely white/pale skinned. Meanwhile the ideal man was: Also short, also fat, also extremely white/pale skinned.

Today however, the concept of a beautiful women/man in the eyes of the public has severely changed. I am asking, who is setting the standard of whats beautiful here and are we enslaved to follow that by trying to look like them?

Lets say that every popular female celebrity in the world, suddenly started to wear hijab, when they ask them: why? They would simply say that they find its beautiful, then the journalists would agree and write supporting fashion articles of how nice they look. Would you or would you not see non muslim women starting to wear hijab then? 

Heres another example, lets say that there is a sister who wears a head scarf but not an abayya because she sees the head scarf as the correct hijab. When she wakes up and goes outside the house, every single women she sees are suddenly wearing a full dressed abbaya, will she remain wearing a head scarf or will she also start to wear an abayya? Then for what reason did she change and for what reason did she not change before?

Our sisters are much more than just walking objects for men to lustfully stare at. But unfortunately today you see that many women only get their sense of validation of how beautiful they look judged on how much males stare at them or for that matter, how much their female friends compliment them.

I am saying: please recognize the reasons that affect your degree of hijab, recognize the forces that want to undress you and understand that you dont need male validation nor female validation in order to feel good about yourself and the way you look. You dont need to listen to me nor do you need to listen to society about how to look, please dont be a people pleaser but be an Allah pleaser. 

What does Allah swt want for you? We have Ahlul Bayt(as) which are walking examples of perfection and correct interpretation of words of Allah swt. For what reason do we not observe what has been given to us? Is it because of what people around you are going to think about you? You are worried that you wont get married? Is it because you are worried about your job that Al Razzaq/Al-Raziq gave you?

Take me as a person out of the calculation and just reflect on the written words you are reading.

And of course, there are always exceptions, such as a person living in taqqiya or under serious threat. 

I understand the point you are making. Hijab should be worn within limits and so the purpose is fulfilled. What I don't understand is how men like us can come forward and criticise sisters for displaying even a slightest bit of fashion, by them being a bit creative. By creativity I don't mean skin tight jeans or half covered hair. Creativity implies some sort of design and colourful matching, so the sister doesn't look dead. 

Now there is no point bringing emotions into this by pointing out to a conspiracy theory that the west wants to hijack the hijab and destroy it's worth. The west will continue to be the west and they don't care about modesty which I admit, but it doesn't mean they have the hijab in mind.The west not only affects women but also men. You see men having these crazy hairstyles, all because it is trendy. Before you had lose jeans and now you have skinny jeans for men. My point is that fashion will change over time and you will have some styles which will be trendy now that weren't before. The important thing for hijabi sisters is to be modest and not to ever lose the true purpose of their hijab.

I'll give you an example. Being a guy, before baggy jeans were in style and I use to wear them a alot. Nowadays, you have skinny jeans and some are like skin tight which is just crazy in my opinion. Being a muslim, I know the teachings of Islam to know what fashion I can take and what part of it I can reject. I choose not to wear super skinny jeans because It looks feminine and very immodest. It doesn't imply that you reject the whole fashion of the west. We have the intellect and the teachings of Islam, to know what fashion is fine and what fashion is wrong. Beard is also trendy nowadays and I can say it is fashion, which is great because we meet the sunnah automatically.

The reason I bought this example of  men is that, there is nothing evil or wrong about fashion itself. You can't take this idea of fashion and say that the west is getting paid to destroy the hijab or anything. Likewise, sisters even have brains too and they know what fashion is suitable for them and what is not. You can't expect ideal sisters to be those who say "I hate fashion", "I hate creativity". Fashion is all art and I know there are also muslim women who wear the hijab, are stylists . It is not always the west who are styling hijab with an evil motive.

Who said that all muslim women who follow some sort of fashion, want to please others? They could be wearing it for their husband and wanting to feel good about themselves. When I wear nice clothes, I don't care about other people at all. I wear nice clothes for myself and not to impress women.

To summarise everything, yes hijab should be worn in a modest way but who are we to say that fashion is wrong or this is how they should wear the hijab. The sisters here already know how it should be worn and they don't need someone to pick on them. My advice is for you to also make a thread about modesty in general so guys can also be included.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans
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2 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

To summarise everything, yes hijab should be worn in a modest way but who are we to say that fashion is wrong or this is how they should wear the hijab. The sisters here already know how it should be worn and they don't need someone to pick on them. My advice is for you to also make a thread about modesty in general so guys can also be included.

100% agree with you.

But when I say the same thing, the world gets set on fire. Lol!!!

Edited by shiaman14
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6 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I understand the point you are making. Hijab should be worn within limits and so the purpose is fulfilled. What I don't understand is how men like us can come forward and criticise sisters for displaying even a slightest bit of fashion, by them being a bit creative. By creativity I don't mean skin tight jeans or half covered hair. Creativity implies some sort of design and colourful matching, so the sister doesn't look dead. 

Now there is no point bringing emotions into this by pointing out to a conspiracy theory that the west wants to hijack the hijab and destroy it's worth. The west will continue to be the west and they don't care about modesty which I admit, but it doesn't mean they have the hijab in mind.The west not only affects women but also men. You see men having these crazy hairstyles, all because it is trendy. Before you had lose jeans and now you have skinny jeans for men. My point is that fashion will change over time and you will have some styles which will be trendy now that weren't before. The important thing for hijabi sisters is to be modest and not to ever lose the true purpose of their hijab.

I'll give you an example. Being a guy, before baggy jeans were in style and I use to wear them a alot. Nowadays, you have skinny jeans and some are like skin tight which is just crazy in my opinion. Being a muslim, I know the teachings of Islam to know what fashion I can take and what part of it I can reject. I choose not to wear super skinny jeans because It looks feminine and very immodest. It doesn't imply that you reject the whole fashion of the west. We have the intellect and the teachings of Islam, to know what fashion is fine and what fashion is wrong. Beard is also trendy nowadays and I can say it is fashion, which is great because we meet the sunnah automatically.

The reason I bought this example of  men is that, there is nothing evil or wrong about fashion itself. You can't take this idea of fashion and say that the west is getting paid to destroy the hijab or anything. Likewise, sisters even have brains too and they know what fashion is suitable for them and what is not. You can't expect ideal sisters to be those who say "I hate fashion", "I hate creativity". Fashion is all art and I know there are also muslim women who wear the hijab, are stylists . It is not always the west who are styling hijab with an evil motive.

Who said that all muslim women who follow some sort of fashion, want to please others? They could be wearing it for their husband and wanting to feel good about themselves. When I wear nice clothes, I don't care about other people at all. I wear nice clothes for myself and not to impress women.

To summarise everything, yes hijab should be worn in a modest way but who are we to say that fashion is wrong or this is how they should wear the hijab. The sisters here already know how it should be worn and they don't need someone to pick on them. My advice is for you to also make a thread about modesty in general so guys can also be included.

 

You did not answer my question to you:

What is the core purpose of fashionable clothing? And how does that correlate to the core purpose of the hijab?

To my understanding the core purpose of fashion, when all is said and done, is to attract attention, while one of the major purposes of the hijab is to reduce the attention you get.

 

If not being fashionable means you look dead, does that mean you are dead? If not looking beautiful in public means you look bad, does that mean your ugly?

Both of those answers are no, but as you said the key word here is how they look and how they look in public is perceived and judged by others in public. If you were convinced that you are the most beautiful creature ever, would you feel like you need particular clothing to convince anyone? Whether it is yourself or people on the streets?

Our sisters beauty does not come from the way they dress in public or the way they look for that matter, their beauty comes from their devotion to Allah swt. No need to try and express yourself thru clothing to others to get validated about your beauty, in fact, no need to try and convince yourself either thru clothing that you are beautiful. What is beauty is your love for Allah swt and the amaals you do out of love for him.

 

I do not agree with you that:

A. There is no need to bring the impact of emotional thinking into this because to my opinion there is no rational basis to deviate from the hijab of Ahlul Bayt(as).

B. That the west is not out to dismantle the concept of hijab. It is not a conspiracy that ibliss(la) wishes to distort what Allah swt has told us, he tries to do so thru different means, like hollywood or fashion hijab, or nikes new female sport hijab where the model is wearing yoga pants at the same time, or whatever ells, it varies. The way it works is that you take a little bit of the bad and mix it in with the good, step by step you increase the bad so it sneaks it way thru your attention without you noticing it until you dont even realize there is something to notice because it has become so normalized and second nature.

Another example of the west actually being out to dismantle the hijab is that the EU recently made a law where it is legal for your employer to ask you to take off your hijab at work. Thats another concrete example of the direction it is moving towards and the general attitude towards it.

 

Furthermore, if a muslim women wishes to look good for her husband, she can do so in private but there is no justification in that regard to do so in public. Nor should the husband ask his wife to dress up in public. Unless he has a sick hearth and wants to satisfy himself by showcasing how nice his wife looks and how great of a man he is that managed to get her.

 

6 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

To summarise everything, yes hijab should be worn in a modest way but who are we to say that fashion is wrong or this is how they should wear the hijab. The sisters here already know how it should be worn and they don't need someone to pick on them. My advice is for you to also make a thread about modesty in general so guys can also be included.

If I as a muslim point out a deviation from the sunnah and teachings of Ahlul Bayt(as), which in this particular case is the way "fashion" is affecting the hijab, then it is irrelevant what gender I am because I am not referring to my personal opinion and when I do, I specify that I am. If I would do something that goes against the sunnah of Imam Ali(as) and a sister would point that out, should I fixate on her gender or on what she is saying which is referring me to the sunnah of Imam Ali(as)?

I also believe like you, that the sisters already know what the hijab of Ahlul Bayt(as) is, but where we differ is our perception of adherence to that knowledge. I raise concerns because I do not believe that the degree of hijab is solely chosen on an individual level as much anymore, which in essence it should be. But more chosen on exterior factors which are influenced by a mindset which promotes a shallow and superficial thinking, which is much like that of the west.

 

I do make numerous threads, some concerning the sisters, some concerning the brothers and some concerning both and some concerning none, for example, the same day I created this thread, I created 3 more, 2 of which concerns male issues and one of which concerns everyone:

 

Edited by IbnSina
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With all due respect to NotMe, those images you are posting , 'historical' ones are from paintings done for the Sultans and elite class connected with the Sultans, i.e. they called themselves 'Sunni' (even though they didn't follow the Sunnah of Rasoulallah at all). Because of this history, today you have our brothers and sisters from other schools of thought who are still confused about what is proper hijab, that is why you see extremes, the niqab on one side(which isn't required for women to wear) and the 'fashionista hijab' or no hijab on the other side

In the teachings of Ahl Al Bayt / Jaafri Fiqh, what is and isn't hijab is extremely clear. That is because we have the verses in Quran dealing with hijab, then we have clear teachings of ahl al bayt which clarify these verses. The verses and hadith which clarify them have been posted so many times, but I will repost if requested. 

What is required of sisters and brothers also(there is a hijab for men, but it's not the same as for women), is to follow the above teachings to the best of their ability, nothing more, nothing less. And there are many examples of women in the US who live in society, study, have careers, etc who wear proper hijab. Here is one example below

http://www.arabamericannews.com/2017/05/12/dearborn-native-to-become-first-hijabi-air-force-judge-advocate/

(Disclaimer: I am not saying I encourage muslim women to enter the US military, but anyway, this is one recent example, but anyway, this is proper hijab according to Jaafari Fiqh)

And all this stuff about judging someone based on their hijab is deeply flawed from an Islamic perspective. If they are not wearing proper hijab, and ask us for advice or guidance then we should help them. If they don't ask us or don't want our advice, we should ask Allah(s.w.a) to guide them. The information is out there and available to all. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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6 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

And all this stuff about judging someone based on their hijab is deeply flawed from an Islamic perspective. If they are not wearing proper hijab, and ask us for advice or guidance then we should help them. If they don't ask us or don't want our advice, we should ask Allah(s.w.a) to guide them. The information is out there and available to all. 

For sure judgement belongs to Allah swt and for sure judging and questioning is not the same.

Saying "That is bad." is very much different from asking "Is that bad?"

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Guys complaining about fashionable (yet still within standards) hijab: men dress fashionably to impress women. Women dress fashionably to impress other women too, not to impress men. The majority of men don't care whether a woman is fashionable or not. If they want to look at pretty women instead of lowering their gaze, they will look, even if she's looking alluring in her 1920s or 1970s outfits. 

And @Abu Hadi the point of the ancient paintings was to show that partial hijab is nothing modern and is a different subject from "modern" or "fashionable" hijab. 

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17 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

And there are many examples of women in the US who live in society, study, have careers, etc who wear proper hijab. Here is one example below

http://www.arabamericannews.com/2017/05/12/dearborn-native-to-become-first-hijabi-air-force-judge-advocate/

(Disclaimer: I am not saying I encourage muslim women to enter the US military, but anyway, this is one recent example, but anyway, this is proper hijab according to Jaafari Fiqh)

Salaam brother,

If you Google Maysaa Ouza, you will find her in some fashionable Hijab pics. 

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12 hours ago, notme said:

Guys complaining about fashionable (yet still within standards) hijab: men dress fashionably to impress women. Women dress fashionably to impress other women too, not to impress men. The majority of men don't care whether a woman is fashionable or not. If they want to look at pretty women instead of lowering their gaze, they will look, even if she's looking alluring in her 1920s or 1970s outfits. 

And @Abu Hadi the point of the ancient paintings was to show that partial hijab is nothing modern and is a different subject from "modern" or "fashionable" hijab. 

We cannot have a principal discussion regarding this subject without the need to be called women haters and/or perverts? 

 

I repeat:

22 hours ago, IbnSina said:

If I as a muslim point out a deviation from the sunnah and teachings of Ahlul Bayt(as), which in this particular case is the way "fashion" is affecting the hijab, then it is irrelevant what gender I am because I am not referring to my personal opinion and when I do, I specify that I am. If I would do something that goes against the sunnah of Imam Ali(as) and a sister would point that out, should I fixate on her gender or on what she is saying which is referring me to the sunnah of Imam Ali(as)?

I also believe like you, that the sisters already know what the hijab of Ahlul Bayt(as) is, but where we differ is our perception of adherence to that knowledge. I raise concerns because I do not believe that the degree of hijab is solely chosen on an individual level as much anymore, which in essence it should be. But more chosen on exterior factors which are influenced by a mindset which promotes a shallow and superficial thinking, which is much like that of the west.

 

Now let me ask you something since you mentioned your view:

Why the need to impress? What is the basis of that need? What role does self confidence have with regards to the wish of impressing others? What does it say about us if we feel like we have to dress up to impress on a principal level?

Surely the context matters with regards to what you wish to achieve, such as a job interview, but are we all on our ways to job interviews?

 

Actually, let me make it more clear: If someone on the streets would say to you that you look good, would that make you feel better about yourself?

Edited by IbnSina
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21 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

With all due respect to NotMe, those images you are posting , 'historical' ones are from paintings done for the Sultans and elite class connected with the Sultans, i.e. they called themselves 'Sunni' (even though they didn't follow the Sunnah of Rasoulallah at all). Because of this history, today you have our brothers and sisters from other schools of thought who are still confused about what is proper hijab, that is why you see extremes, the niqab on one side(which isn't required for women to wear) and the 'fashionista hijab' or no hijab on the other side

In the teachings of Ahl Al Bayt / Jaafri Fiqh, what is and isn't hijab is extremely clear. That is because we have the verses in Quran dealing with hijab, then we have clear teachings of ahl al bayt which clarify these verses. The verses and hadith which clarify them have been posted so many times, but I will repost if requested. 

What is required of sisters and brothers also(there is a hijab for men, but it's not the same as for women), is to follow the above teachings to the best of their ability, nothing more, nothing less. And there are many examples of women in the US who live in society, study, have careers, etc who wear proper hijab. Here is one example below

http://www.arabamericannews.com/2017/05/12/dearborn-native-to-become-first-hijabi-air-force-judge-advocate/

(Disclaimer: I am not saying I encourage muslim women to enter the US military, but anyway, this is one recent example, but anyway, this is proper hijab according to Jaafari Fiqh)

And all this stuff about judging someone based on their hijab is deeply flawed from an Islamic perspective. If they are not wearing proper hijab, and ask us for advice or guidance then we should help them. If they don't ask us or don't want our advice, we should ask Allah(s.w.a) to guide them. The information is out there and available to all. 

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Hajj Abu Hadi, Assalam Alikum. 

Your intention is in the right place, but your example is poor.  She is wearing a graduation gown, that doesn't count in the real world how she dresses.  Secondly, I know some men might not notice lol but us girls can see clear details.  She is wearing purple fingernail polish, considered zeena and therefore not proper hijab because she is beautifying herself in public.

I think sisters need to get more involved in encouraging proper hijab.  Yesterday at the masjid, I saw a sister coming in the masjid without hijab.  She went to make wudthu, and I took my pad and pen out.  I wrote her a small note.  After saying salam, I said it is wonderful how she is maintaining her salat and to complete her faith with hijab.  Of course I said she is beautiful and for God to protect her from all harm.  I waiting while she did sujood and dropped the note next to her phone and left.  Looking back she was reading it, it got her attention because I wrote it in English.  We need to care and demonstrate affection and know how to approach people.  

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

Edited by Laayla
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@IbnSina 

I think I'll end the argument here. I respect your view but you still haven't really answered my question.

You said "the purpose of the hijab is to reduce the attention" and then related it to the fact that this is the main reason why fashion is wrong.

Firstly, hijab is much more than a physical solution in reducing the amount of attention a woman gets. There might be some people who are more attracted to hijabi woman, while others are more attracted to non-hijabi ones. If you want to reduce the amount of attention they get, then someone can also say that they should deliberately smell bad and not be presentable at all which would work quite well. A pervert will be a pervert regardless of how women dress.

Even as a guy, I know Hijab is much more than "reducing the attention a woman gets". Hijab is a symbol against objectification of women and it is worn to remind women of the respect that they deserve. When I see a women wearing a hijab, I realize how she is literally wearing a verse of the quran and chose to wear a piece of cloth regardless of whether it attracts the public or not. Having said this, yes it should be exactly worn in a certain way showing modesty and within the boundaries set by Ahlulbayt (as) and quran. 

If a guy has a beard, then he keeps it is a sign of obedience to Allah swt regardless of the fact that it actually attracts women. Similarly hijab is a sign of obedience to Allah swt.

So, your point is wrong that any sort of design or styling of hijab is totally harram. The general rule given by Allah is to cover certain parts and then the style/pattern is completely up to the sister. There is not one standard dress you can impose on women. Pakistani women who wear hijab wear it in a different style to Iranian women. Malaysian women also wear it differently. The important fact is to make sure it is modest and within the limits. 

I think I have made my point clear now. This is the main reason why I refrain from imposing my view, on how a woman should wear hijab and what fashion is wrong for her. There is no need to comment on the way a women should dress, like whether she should wear an abaya or jeans.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans
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Salam, br. 

I agree with above, but there is one point which I think there is a misunderstanding. 

It is not haram to style the hijab, but alot of the hijab styles (I live in Dearborn so I've seen almost every style imaginable) are not hijab according to teachings of Ahl Al Bayt(a.s), rather they are duplications of Western, non muslim, fashion trends with just a small amount of hijab thrown into the mix to fool those more naive amoung us. 

There are two basic criteria for hijab which must be observed, so that it is considered an Islamic hijab

1) Covering what should be covered

2) Not using the clothing as a means to draw attention to yourself or any part of yourself

 

On point 1, there is almost universal agreement amoung followers of Ahl Al Bayt(a.s) that, for women, everything should be covered except the roundness of the face, the hands from the fingertips to the wrists, and the feet from the tips of the toes to the ankles. Everything else should be covered and the form of the rest of the body should not be apparent (i.e. the clothing should not be tight)

On point 2, there is more grey area, but if a women, for example puts on something while knowing that by wearing that thing, she will attract attention to herself, then that clothing is outside of Islamic criteria for what is hijab. 

The whole point of Western fashion is for a women to wear something that will get her 'noticed'. That is why women pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a dress. It is not to look 'nice' or look 'acceptable', it is so she 'stands out from the crowd', ie. draws attention to herself. That is the basis of the sales pitch of Western fashion. There is nothing else except that. From the Western Fashion perspective, the only time covering is necessary is if the purpose is to cover a perceived defect (extra weight, scars, body deformities, etc). If there is not perceived defect, then there is no need to cover. 

The whole point of hijab is for a women not to draw attention to herself by her clothing or lack of clothing. So I don't see how those two purposes can be reconciled. 

To summarize, I am not against 'fashionable' hijab, but I am against blind copying of non muslim fashion trends and the thoughts and premises behind them by muslims without the muslims stopping to consider what they are copying. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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On 2017-05-16 at 8:45 AM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Firstly, hijab is much more than a physical solution in reducing the amount of attention a woman gets. There might be some people who are more attracted to hijabi woman, while others are more attracted to non-hijabi ones. If you want to reduce the amount of attention they get, then someone can also say that they should deliberately smell bad and not be presentable at all which would work quite well. A pervert will be a pervert regardless of how women dress.

I never argued that hijab only had a physical dimension.

Your argument that some people might be more attracted to hijabi women than non hijabi women is not valid because realistically speaking for the VAST majority that is not the case. If you have a special smell, whether that is specially bad or specially good, it will still attract attention, be it good or bad.

A pervert being a pervert has nothing to do with this. This is the law and word of Allah swt as given and described to us by Ahlul Bayt(as), how people react to it is actually quite insignificant. If you wear hijab based how people will react then you have forgotten why you wear it and that is a reactive way of thinking based on how it will be perceived by humans, which should never be the case with hijab or any other God given law.

 

On 2017-05-16 at 8:45 AM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

So, your point is wrong that any sort of design or styling of hijab is totally harram.

This is not my point and I have never said that styling hijab is totally haram. This is you putting words in my mouth and there is really no need to do so since everything I have said is written down above.

 

This pretty much summarizes my point:

On 2017-05-16 at 0:49 PM, Abu Hadi said:

There are two basic criteria for hijab which must be observed, so that it is considered an Islamic hijab

1) Covering what should be covered

2) Not using the clothing as a means to draw attention to yourself or any part of yourself

and:

On 2017-05-16 at 0:49 PM, Abu Hadi said:

The whole point of hijab is for a women not to draw attention to herself by her clothing or lack of clothing. So I don't see how those two purposes can be reconciled. 

To summarize, I am not against 'fashionable' hijab, but I am against blind copying of non muslim fashion trends and the thoughts and premises behind them by muslims without the muslims stopping to consider what they are copying. 

 

 

 

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As salaamu alaykum wa ramatullahi wa barakatuh! 

I do NOT believe that modern styles (although they say they are Islamic) fit the ideal set by our Prophet Muhammad Sallalahu alaihi wasallam and his family. Ahlul Bayt are truly the people with the knowledge and correct ways of doing everything, including clothing for women. We should not compromise anything, especially they way we dress. There is a clear Islamic dress code, and we all know this. Many women have become brainwashed and mesmerized by western fashion authorities, and they began to feel insecure about Islamic dress codes, not to mention the violence shown to them everywhere for dressing modestly and covering their faces and hands. I do not believe that the west has any right to comment at all or influence Islamic clothing in any way. 

I also believe that Muslim men have every right to comment on Islamic women's clothing and to correct them if they become too influenced by western fashion. In most cases Muslim men will recommend a conservative and correct adherence to true guidance and religious principles. They do not like to see women degrade themselves and look cheap or trashy. Muslim men hold Muslim women in a high regard and want to see them respect themselves and respect Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. Also, I believe it is not worth challenging True and Known Islamic dress codes for a woman, who is in the most danger of going to Jahannam (It is the majority of women who have rebelled).  It is not worth the risk. We are only here for a short time and we must obey the rules set by Allah. Female obscenity is at the root of the problem on this earth, and we should never approach anything that is in any way obscene,  or we could risk burning ourselves, literally. 

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salam brother,

yes Fatima Alzahra (as) is our role model, but you cannot expect us to walk in the western countries with a wide black abaya and a veil that covers our face, not because we don't want to dress this way, but because in these countries it is looked down upon and we would be bringing attention to ourseleves by dressing this way, which is the opposit of what hijab is supposed to do. in such countries abayas are classified as libas al shuhra, so you're actually not supposed to wear them.

as for the band on the abaya, if it is not tight, what is the problem? and what if the scarf has flowers or patterns? why are you overcomplicating things? islamically speaking as long as a woman's clothing is not see through or tight it is permissible for her to wear it. it is women's nature to want to look presetable and nice, but of course withtin islamic limits. don't forget that hijab is obligatory when girl truns 9, and at this age, of course she will wear bright colours, even when she becomes a teenager she will care about her appearance. 

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