Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Soldiers and Saffron

The modern hijab of women and the best one

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Also I would like to make a general annunciation with regards to all the fuss above:

I am not obligated to be polite nor kind to anyone, if I am, that is a form of charity but that does not mean its okay to be rude of course, which some times I am unfortunately, a bit blunt as well but that is because we all have stuff we need to work on and I apologize for my weaknesses.

What I am saying is that the only thing that should be discussed in a objective discussion is the subject of discussion, not how I say it or who I am that says it.

It is the content that needs to be discussed, not the way how one perceives the presentation to be.

For example, If I would like to discuss how 1+1=2, it wont make a difference as to how I present my opinion of it with regards to the fact that 1+1=2, nor would that fact be changed because of whatever gender I am in particular.

However sometimes whatever you say and however you say it, someone ends up feeling hurt and theres not much I can do about that but of course it does not make me happy that someone got sad.

For example if someone is complaining about their life and I link a picture of a starving kid, then they would feel like im trying to shame them and get upset, is that my fault? Or is it that how the picture was perceived and how one internally compares the picture to ones own life situation that made them feel shame on their own? And me linking a picture of a starving kid is only me presenting the fact that there are starving kids in the world. That is me questioning the situation, not judging it. The judgement was done on their own.

So if I highlight the hijab of Ahlul Bayt(as) and you compare it to your own and get upset that I am pointing out what you are trying to justify to avoid, is that wrong of me?

Anyways, that is the end of that discussion, I wish to discuss the content now, no more derailing please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, IbnSina said:

1. Do you not agree that females have role models within shia islam as to how the female hijab should be worn?

 

Yes, however, I believe that there is much wriggle room in this matter as styles and tastes vary. 

2 hours ago, IbnSina said:

2. What is your own interpretation of okay hijab and how do you apply for example the head scarf?

 

My application of the headscarf is irrelevant to this discussion. I don't appreciate my body and my choices being scrutinized by men.

My idea of "fashionable" hijab:

4b73cc94eb267f4adf3e63527695ba14.jpg

e91e28360ba382f12207d36c546f858c.jpg

 

7c6fea8db22acabcb4d8fea6c2456888.jpg

 

2 hours ago, IbnSina said:

4. Also, how do you feel about beautification make up while wearing the hijab? For example some marjas say that make up in order to for example cover up a blemish is fine but make up in order to enhance your normal looks, such as lip stick, is not fine. Whats your opinion on that with regards to the subject of discussion?

 

 

"Beautification" is a subjective concept, because a "hot" girl in the States will just appear "plain" and not as beautified when she goes to Iran for example, where it's well known that woman take care of themselves. What one might consider beautification, depending on culture and personal tastes, another might consider to be standard care, and therefore not beautification because you're not adding anything extra.

"Lipstick" is also broad and Marjas should be more clear on the issue or 

not comment at all. There are many shades of natural and unnatural lipsticks. 

I believe it's highly inappropriate for men to comment on how a woman chooses to wear her own makeup.

I personally have no problem with makeup. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Yes, however, I believe that there is much wriggle room in this matter as styles and tastes vary. 

I see and what do you base that opinion on, that there is much wriggle room?

For example a muslim women who does not wear head scarf at all but dresses modestly with the rest of her body, is that within your definition of acceptable wriggle room?

 

11 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

My idea of "fashionable" hijab:

Would you say that the point of the female hijab is to reduce the attraction you get? And would you say that fashionable clothing have the purpose of attracting attention as they are fashionable?

I am not sure that you answered my third question? I believe it is a very important question.

 

15 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

"Beautification" is a subjective concept, because a "hot" girl in the States will just appear "plain" and not as beautified when she goes to Iran for example, where it's well known that woman take care of themselves. What one might consider beautification, depending on culture and personal tastes, another might consider to be standard care, and therefore not beautification because you're not adding anything extra.

"Lipstick" is also broad and Marjas should be more clear on the issue or 

not comment at all. There are many shades of natural and unnatural lipsticks. 

I believe it's highly inappropriate for men to comment on how a woman chooses to wear her own makeup.

I personally have no problem with makeup. 

To my definition and to my understanding of the marjas definition of beautification, the word means that you add on anything to that which is your normal and biologically natural state in order to enhance its looks. You dont agree with that definition? It is a general definition that is not bound to culture or personal taste, etc.

I took lipstick as an example but I can look up the fatwas if you are interested. We are not commenting on any women who wear make up, we are commenting on the principle of the hijab as a general concept. For sure it is not in my position to judge any sister for wearing make up, it is her fathers or her walis responsibility, but if something happens in public, surely i as a member of the public have the right to question what is happening?

With regards to my fifth and final question, I do believe they are related as it has to do with managing a public situation where you find something to be wrong and how to approach the situation. But lets say they are not related, how would you approach it given your options?

Would you condemn the situation? Or would you question the situation? Or would you neglect the situation?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I think a lot of people need to watch this video. The women in this video is honest about how she finds Hijab difficult but continues to wear it for the sake of Allah.

I don't also agree with how men criticise women for how they wear hijab. A women is trying her best and you have these people saying "there is no point", "her hijab has no meaning". Like everyone is going through a struggle and there is no point in putting down all those who wear the hijab. 

I see many guys dressed like one direction themselves and when they see a women having some sort of fashion, they get all fired up. We should look at our own faults before criticizing others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I think a lot of people need to watch this video. The women in this video is honest about how she finds Hijab difficult but continues to wear it for the sake of Allah.

I don't also agree with how men criticise women for how they wear hijab. A women is trying her best and you have these people saying "there is no point", "her hijab has no meaning". Like everyone is going through a struggle and there is no point in putting down all those who wear the hijab. 

I see many guys dressed like one direction themselves and when they see a women having some sort of fashion, they get all fired up. We should look at our own faults before criticizing others.

For sure the hijab of the women, especially in the west its huge struggle and nobody can deny it nor diminish its worth. And for sure for some people, they feel the best about themselves when they criticize others.

Yet this is not a discussion regarding how hard it is to practice the hijab nor about trying to feel good by criticizing others.

Rather this is a discussion about what the ideal hijab is as described and practiced by Ahlul Bayt(as), a discussion about what the purpose of the hijab is on principal level, the development of the modern hijab, the direction it is heading, who it is that affects the development and why we let ourselves get affected.

We must confess that there are forces who are actively working towards the extinction of the islamic hijab because not only do they make money on it but they make our sisters feel like they are only worth anything if they are beautiful for the public and who decides what beautiful is today? They make concepts such as self confidence, personality development, intellectual aspirations, etc, obsolete and only want our sister to think they are worth anything if the public finds them beautiful and make them into people who does anything in order to get validated.

May Allah swt bless who ever does jihad for the sake of His Pleasure, regardless of what type of jihad it is and to what extent it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Modern hijab is colorful. Modern hijab is not careful to cover every hair. Women wear makeup and beatify themselves with modern hijab. Here are some examples of modern hijab:

Hasht-Behesht_Palace_santur.jpg

204f23a3e81a8b31ed23e078b4f1d12a.jpg

14_Woman-with-flowers-FLAT-e136275948285

musicians_and_their_instruments.jpg

Passion-for-Perfection-Islamic-art-11.jp

e34ca3a07b52ff104ba16d6bf237973f.jpg

Point is people are always people. The golden days are tinted with nostalgia, but were in truth not better than today. In many ways today is better because more people have access to knowledge.

There are criteria for hijab, and women will either meet those criteria or not, but within the criteria there's a lot of variation. 

Skin covered except hands and face (and some marjas say feet), not see-through or tight, not with the intention of alluring men, not an object of ridicule or attire characteristic of men. That's the criteria. What a woman chooses to wear within that criteria is up to her. A woman in burqa is neither superior nor inferior to a woman in loose clothing with a scarf. 

Edited by notme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

@notme Would you say that there is such a thing as the ideal hijab?

Ideal hijab covers hair, all skin except face and hands, is not see-through or tight. It doesn't make the wearer an object of ridicule, is not worn with the intention of attracting lustful looks, and is not attire characteristic of men or of unbelievers. 

Hijab is not only modesty, it is also reaching out. Different individuals in different circumstances require different clothing. 

You wouldn't wear a business suit to work as a bricklayer. 

Edited by notme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, notme said:

Ideal hijab covers hair, all skin except face and hands, is not see-through or tight. It doesn't make the wearer an object of ridicule, is not worn with the intention of attracting lustful looks, and is not attire characteristic of men or of unbelievers. 

Hijab is not only modesty, it is also reaching out. 

by hair you mean every inch of it right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, notme said:

Yes, but I'm not willing to condemn a fellow believer for accidental slippage.

if its accidental but what if its on purpose like this one here below

 

4 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

 

 

7c6fea8db22acabcb4d8fea6c2456888.jpg

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lion33 said:

if its accidental but what if its on purpose like this one here below

That doesn't meet the criteria for covering, but I'll condemn her less than a man who doesn't support his family. She's appears to be trying. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, notme said:

That doesn't meet the criteria for covering, but I'll condemn her less than a man who doesn't support his family. She's appears to be trying. 

There is no need to condemn anyone, but there is a need to question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, notme said:

That doesn't meet the criteria for covering, but I'll condemn her less than a man who doesn't support his family. She's appears to be trying. 

Of course a man should support his family nobody said anything about that but how is she trying? She could easily move the hijab 2 or 3 inches and wear it properly. Dont you think?

Edited by Lion33

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Lion33 said:

 how is she trying? She could easily move the hijab 2 or 3 inches and wear it properly. Dont you think?

Who knows what cultural or social pressure she faces. If I knew her, I might ask her to attend a lecture on hijab with me, or gift her a book on hijab. Better to teach than to preach, don't you agree?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, notme said:

Who knows what cultural or social pressure she faces. If I knew her, I might ask her to attend a lecture on hijab with me, or gift her a book on hijab. Better to teach than to preach, don't you agree?

I think preaching is good and also the giving of books and lectures on hijab so I agree with you for the most part on this issue. Still I know a few girls who do the half hijab thing here in Cali but most of them do the full hijab and so I am sure its not that hard. Those girls probably think that the half hijab thing makes the look more attractive but in all honesty it doesn't look good and actually girls that wear the hijab properly look more attractive anyways.

Like these girls below here look super hot but the one with the half hijab just looks like a confused idiot.

4 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

 

4b73cc94eb267f4adf3e63527695ba14.jpg

e91e28360ba382f12207d36c546f858c.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Lion33 said:

I think preaching is good and also the giving of books and lectures on hijab so I agree with you for the most part on this issue. Still I know a few girls who do the half hijab thing here in Cali but most of them do the full hijab and so I am sure its not that hard. Those girls probably think that the half hijab thing makes the look more attractive but in all honesty it doesn't look good and actually girls that wear the hijab properly look more attractive anyways.

Like these girls below here look super hot but the one with the half hijab just looks like a confused idiot.

 

Looking attractive or not looking attractive has nothing to do with hijab brother, you dont wear it for the sake of men, nor do you not wear it for the sake of men.

To wear it is obedience to Allah swt, to not wear it is disobedience to Allah swt and what I think they look like or what you think they look like has no meaning or value.

Edited by IbnSina

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Looking attractive or not looking attractive has nothing to do with hijab brother, you dont wear it for the sake of men, nor do you not wear it for the sake of men.

To wear it is obedience to Allah swt, to not wear it is disobedience to Allah swt and what I think they look like or what you think they look like has no meaning or value.

Yes this is true I agree with you brother but I only mentioned the looks stuff to prove a point that the full hijab is good and the half hijab thing just makes a woman look stupid and unattractive. the reason I mentioned that is because woman who wear the half hijab probably do so because they think it makes them look attractive so I was just giving an argument against that. actually full hijab looks better because a woman can still still look good while at the same time having nur on their face.

Edited by Lion33

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Lion33 said:

Of course a man should support his family nobody said anything about that but how is she trying? She could easily move the hijab 2 or 3 inches and wear it properly. Dont you think?

What if she is a revert living with family who is against Islam and facing extreme opposition from them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, starlight said:

What if she is a revert living with family who is against Islam and facing extreme opposition from them.

in that case no hijab would be valid I would think because its for safety reasons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Lion33 said:

Like these girls below here look super hot but the one with the half hijab just looks like a confused idiot.

What?  Seriously? 

One of them has layers of jewellery. Three have their feet uncovered and wearing high heels. One of them is wearing a top that I would say is too short for hijabi standards.

My point is, everyone can nitpick if they want. 

Edited by starlight
Their, THEIR not there

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, starlight said:

What?  Seriously? 

One of them has layers of jewellery. Three have there feet uncovered and wearing high heels. One of them is wearing a top that I would say is too short for hijabi standards.

My point is, everyone can nitpick if they want. 

I think their dress is permissible for single girls. I think girls that are married shouldn't dress like that in public.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Lion33 said:

I think their dress is permissible for single girls. I think girls that are married shouldn't dress like that in public.

What?  You are joking, right?? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, starlight said:

What?  You are joking, right?? 

 

How is that a joke? You dont think its good for single girls to dress like that so they can attract a guy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lion33 said:

How is that a joke? You dont think its good for single girls to dress like that so they can attract a guy?

Where are you getting your rulings from? The clothes these women are wearing is absolutely haram.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

Where are you getting your rulings from? The clothes these women are wearing is absolutely haram.

I am just giving my opinions not giving rulings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Lion33 said:

I am just giving my opinions not giving rulings

You don't have the authority to be giving your opinion on what is permissible or not unless you have the knowledge of a marja.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hassan- said:

You don't have the authority to be giving your opinion on what is permissible or not unless you have the knowledge of a marja.

Well everybody was giving their opinions on these issues so no need to single me out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lion33 said:

Well everybody was giving their opinions on these issues so no need to single me out.

When you say stuff like this: "I think their dress is permissible for single girls. I think girls that are married shouldn't dress like that in public." You are giving false information about Islam to the public. There dress is not permissible, and if they remain dressed like that they will be subjected to the hell fire by Allah.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hassan- said:

When you say stuff like this: "I think their dress is permissible for single girls. I think girls that are married shouldn't dress like that in public." You are giving false information about Islam to the public. There dress is not permissible, and if they remain dressed like that they will be subjected to the hell fire by Allah.

 

 

Well go tell that to the other ppl who were giving their opinions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, IbnSina said:

For sure the hijab of the women, especially in the west its huge struggle and nobody can deny it nor diminish its worth. And for sure for some people, they feel the best about themselves when they criticize others.

Yet this is not a discussion regarding how hard it is to practice the hijab nor about trying to feel good by criticizing others.

Rather this is a discussion about what the ideal hijab is as described and practiced by Ahlul Bayt(as), a discussion about what the purpose of the hijab is on principal level, the development of the modern hijab, the direction it is heading, who it is that affects the development and why we let ourselves get affected.

We must confess that there are forces who are actively working towards the extinction of the islamic hijab because not only do they make money on it but they make our sisters feel like they are only worth anything if they are beautiful for the public and who decides what beautiful is today? They make concepts such as self confidence, personality development, intellectual aspirations, etc, obsolete and only want our sister to think they are worth anything if the public finds them beautiful and make them into people who does anything in order to get validated.

May Allah swt bless who ever does jihad for the sake of His Pleasure, regardless of what type of jihad it is and to what extent it is.

I definitely agree that Hijab must be properly worn in a way that everyone should be able to tell that the girl is modest.

I never implied that fashion in a sense that your hair is half covered or anything. What I meant by fashion is, to let sisters have some sort of flexibility to be creative, in a sense that they can style it nicely (colourful/matching) but within certain limits. 

By your point I get an impression of a big black gown worn so please correct me, if I am wrong. So what Is exactly your definition of the way hijab should be worn? Make it a bit clear to me. 

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...