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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Vale of Tempe

Perspective Sura Fatiha v7

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This is only my intuition.

Most common understanding is that they refer to the Yahud and Nasara. This may be seen from an inter-religious perspective.

From the intra-religious perspective, I view l-maghḍūbi as referring to the Nasibis, and l-ḍālīna referring other non-Shias who are (i) unaware or (ii) do not acknowledge the Wilaya of Imam Ali (as) AND at the same neither hate nor inflict harm to the Ahlul Bayt (as).

l-maghḍūbi
those who earned (Your) wrath

l-ḍālīna
(of) those who go astray

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On 9/11/2016 at 7:43 PM, Vale of Tempe said:

This is only my intuition.

Most common understanding is that they refer to the Yahud and Nasara. This may be seen from an inter-religious perspective.

From the intra-religious perspective, I view l-maghḍūbi as referring to the Nasibis, and l-ḍālīna referring other non-Shias who are (i) unaware or (ii) do not acknowledge the Wilaya of Imam Ali (as) AND at the same neither hate nor inflict harm to the Ahlul Bayt (as).

l-maghḍūbi
those who earned (Your) wrath

l-ḍālīna
(of) those who go astray

According to the explanations of the scholars of Tafsir on the verse, the intended groups in the verse were the Jews and the Christians. However, this does not mean that the verse could not be applicable to others. Of course, this application needs vast knowledge and expertise in Tafsir so that it does not lead to "TAFSIR BI RA'Y" (i.e. Tafsir of Quran based on personal whims) which is totally condemned in Islam.

Allah knows BEST.

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4 hours ago, Vale of Tempe said:

This is only my intuition.

Most common understanding is that they refer to the Yahud and Nasara. This may be seen from an inter-religious perspective.

From the intra-religious perspective, I view l-maghḍūbi as referring to the Nasibis, and l-ḍālīna referring other non-Shias who are (i) unaware or (ii) do not acknowledge the Wilaya of Imam Ali (as) AND at the same neither hate nor inflict harm to the Ahlul Bayt (as).

l-maghḍūbi
those who earned (Your) wrath

l-ḍālīna
(of) those who go astray

So when Sunni's/Non-Shia  when they pray and say this verse, they're asking not to be themselves (I-Dalina)  or (Maghdubi), and seek protection to not be what they're doing?  Sound's... not quite what I'd imagine.

Even to extrapolate it refers to the Christians/Jews is going too far as the Quran has in several places, identified some Jews and Christians to be righteous. 

I'm not a huge proponent of "hidden meaning"  Since the Quran says in 2:286

Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us. You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people."

 

So I wouldn't think Allah swt would throw 1.5 billion muslims around for a whirl who are trying sincerely to get closer to him and lump them as those who've gone astray (being ignorant/unaware).

 

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Part I

Well, when it comes to Tafseers, they are all sectarian-based.  And that includes Quran translations and footnotes emanating from the Hadith Rejector groups. From a certain angle, the Hadith Rejectors may have some valid points too. If the Quran is to be explained by a shaky document called Hadith, then the Tafseers are to be taken with a grain of salt.

My opinion above is also sectarian-based. 

Those who are on the straight path are those who have been ni'mah (trilateral nun ayn mim). One thinks ni'mah as all things good – tangible or intangible – good food, nice clothes, nice women, mind free from troubles and depression. In the Shia world, the greatest ni'mah is Wilayah which in general terms means Guidance. Quran is Guidance. And the man holding the Quran to guide me and you fall within this concept of Wilayah. Your Wilayah is your chain of Sufi Masters. The Shia believe however that the Wilayah is scoped to inerrant men only (whomever they may be).

The story of all prophethood is the same. The prophet came to guide his people, and at the end, some (i) followed him (ii) did not follow and harshly rejected him (iii) followed him initially and then convoluted his teachings later on.

In the Shia world, the Guide was meant to be Imam Ali (as). Some followers convoluted Muhammad's (pbuh&hf) true teachings and they went astray are become what they are today.

OK. That's all sectarian thinking.

Part II

Now your issue is that Quran has no hidden meaning. If I read you correct, Quran is devoid of parts being in figuratives and metaphors?

The Qur’an is pretty metaphorically, as in in verse Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:7] :

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

Al-Baqarah 2:74 is also metaphorical:

Then your hearts became hardened after that, being like stones or even harder. For indeed, there are stones from which rivers burst forth, and there are some of them that split open and water comes out, and there are some of them that fall down for fear of Allah . And Allah is not unaware of what you do.

I am sure they are hidden meanings in the Quran. Take 'night' and 'day'. Day is light - good!. Night is devoid of light - bad!

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On 9/12/2016 at 2:43 AM, Vale of Tempe said:

Part I

Well, when it comes to Tafseers, they are all sectarian-based.  And that includes Quran translations and footnotes emanating from the Hadith Rejector groups. From a certain angle, the Hadith Rejectors may have some valid points too. If the Quran is to be explained by a shaky document called Hadith, then the Tafseers are to be taken with a grain of salt.

My opinion above is also sectarian-based. 

Those who are on the straight path are those who have been ni'mah (trilateral nun ayn mim). One thinks ni'mah as all things good – tangible or intangible – good food, nice clothes, nice women, mind free from troubles and depression. In the Shia world, the greatest ni'mah is Wilayah which in general terms means Guidance. Quran is Guidance. And the man holding the Quran to guide me and you fall within this concept of Wilayah. Your Wilayah is your chain of Sufi Masters. The Shia believe however that the Wilayah is scoped to inerrant men only (whomever they may be).

The story of all prophethood is the same. The prophet came to guide his people, and at the end, some (i) followed him (ii) did not follow and harshly rejected him (iii) followed him initially and then convoluted his teachings later on.

In the Shia world, the Guide was meant to be Imam Ali (as). Some followers convoluted Muhammad's (pbuh&hf) true teachings and they went astray are become what they are today.

OK. That's all sectarian thinking.

Part II

Now your issue is that Quran has no hidden meaning. If I read you correct, Quran is devoid of parts being in figuratives and metaphors?

The Qur’an is pretty metaphorically, as in in verse Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:7] :

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

Al-Baqarah 2:74 is also metaphorical:

Then your hearts became hardened after that, being like stones or even harder. For indeed, there are stones from which rivers burst forth, and there are some of them that split open and water comes out, and there are some of them that fall down for fear of Allah . And Allah is not unaware of what you do.

I am sure they are hidden meanings in the Quran. Take 'night' and 'day'. Day is light - good!. Night is devoid of light - bad!

Having a hidden meaning directly contradicts the verse I mentioned.  If the Quran is for mankind (not just Arabs who know Arabic), including those who aren't adept to read between lines.... then tell me what is hidden that is keeping the Sunni populous from the straight path?

 God wouldn't complicate the message if he intended to guide us.. and from I see I believe what you think are the entire Sunni population that He refers to, I think are extremists who twisted Quran and haven't found the OBVIOUS Quran  meanings that exude peace.

For you and me it's very plain that the Quran is not being carried out at all by the likes Daesh, and these Daesh men who think they are, are the blinded ones (Non sectarian ).

If God doesn't charge a soul beyond their capacity,  then can you concede others may not be on a straight path but still can get to Heaven?

Or in your opinion can non Shia also go to heaven ?

If God admits according to your interpretation of the verses you mentioned, that there's stuff in the Quran that no human may understand, then wouldn't it not be blameful on us?

Also, Sufis  "wilayat" chains are premised on coming from Imams up to Ali ibn Abi Talib, AS.   Unless you're Naqshbandi. 

These Hadith,  with their discrepencies, and next to impossible difficult to discern  to be absolutely Sahee7, we're not promised to us by God to be preserved.   Only the Quran has been. If coming to Islam comes in three stages, the first is an inclination towards truth (when you're not yet a Muslim),  then one must acknowledge the  shakyness of the Hadith.  

We should all agree anything that contradicts the Quran should be considered fabricated, and the Quranic words of God take all precedence with regard to the recorded and preserved by man Hadith. 

An unerring imam who transmits Hadith will have his words also maintained and preserved by erring man.

 

 

 

 

 

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