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In the Name of God بسم الله

Journey From a proud Muslim to Atheist

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I have just joined this site though I should introduce myself here.I was raised as Muslim and I left Islam a year ago.As I was raised a Sunni I had no idea what are the core beliefs of Shia Muslims and how they are different from mainstream Muslims.Only thing I knew about Shia was that they abuse sahaba that was my knowledge about shia.I am curious to know about shias.I would be very grateful if anybody can help me understand shias.
These are few of my questions.
Does Shia beleive that Sunnis are Muslims ? please don't give your personal opinion.I wanna know about what Shia theology says about sunnis.Are they gonna go to "Jannat" ?
And more important is it part of shia religion to abuse sahaba or just they curse first three caliphs out of  sheer hatred ?

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an In the name of Allah, the most Magnificent, the most Merciful.

Salam Alaykum brother.

I am not an Islamic Scholar, but If I may, I would like to ask you a few questions about being an atheist....Do you know who Stephen King is?? He is a famous scientist who is an atheist and pretty much lives like a vegetable on wheels, only his brain is not dead, the rest of his body is pretty much dead. The question is, if he thinks there is no God, he came from nothing, he is going back to nothing, there is no heaven and earth, WHY WOULD HE MAKE HIMSELF SUFFER AND STILL LIVING? Why doesn't he kill himself so he can end his suffering? There are a lot of atheists that are homeless or in bad heath condition, if they are not accountable for their deeds in this life, and there is no heaven and hell, nor punishment for their sins, why they never kill themselves and end their sufferings in this world? Why would you want to live in this evil world if you don't believe there is a God?

Wasalam.

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16 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

You are referring to Stephen Hawking, Stephen King is the writer of horror novels. 

 

16 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

You are referring to Stephen Hawking, Stephen King is the writer of horror novels. 

Bismillah.

Salam Alaykum.

Yes brother, here what Google say about him....

Stephen Hawking is an English theoretical physicist and cosmologist who is widely considered to be one of the greatest scientists alive today. He is currently the director of research at the Centre for Theoretical Cosmology, University of Cambridge.

Oh sorry, yea I meant Stephen Hawking, just noticed I misspelled his last name.

 

Edited by Unity4Imam
typo
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51 minutes ago, Hussaingujjur said:

I have just joined this site though I should introduce myself here.I was raised as Muslim and I left Islam a year ago.As I was raised a Sunni I had no idea what are the core beliefs of Shia Muslims and how they are different from mainstream Muslims.Only thing I knew about Shia was that they abuse sahaba that was my knowledge about shia.I am curious to know about shias.I would be very grateful if anybody can help me understand shias.
These are few of my questions.
Does Shia beleive that Sunnis are Muslims ? please don't give your personal opinion.I wanna know about what Shia theology says about sunnis.Are they gonna go to "Jannat" ?
And more important is it part of shia religion to abuse sahaba or just they curse first three caliphs out of  sheer hatred ?

Salam,

Anyone who believe in Allah swt and His Prophet (pbuh) are muslims whether they called themselves a Sunni, Shia,... Anyone who does good will get good in return, does not matter whether they are muslims or not. Everyone is entitled to go to Jannah. Allah swt will decide on that issue. However, those who follow His Prophet teachings truthfully will got to Jannah the fastest. Shia deplore characters of anyone who are proven to show disrespect knowingly and willingly to the Prophet and Family of Prophet, regardless if these people are well known, even if they were sahaba.

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As far as I know, the belief of our madhab is that anyone from any sect or religion can go to heaven or at the very least can be spared from hellfire; we have narrations where even some polytheistic people from before Islam, because of one good deed with pure intentions, Allah swt preserved them from hellfire. 

 

In our belief, even those who go to hellfire can be saved. Permanent hellfire is reserved for a select few individuals. We cannot really speculate on who goes to heaven or hell, as each of us has enough trouble trying to avoid hellfire ourselves. Suffice to say: we do not believe someone is necessarily hellbound because of their madhhab. I mean the Quran is clear about this issue; if any Muslim believes in such a thing they are going against the direct words of their Lord.

 

Many people who for whatever reason, are not Muslim, we should not even call them kafir. There is a term for some people called: mustadh'af. It is usually translated as "oppressed" in English but it actually has many different meanings. It does not simply refer to people who have been politically debased but also to individuals who for whatever reason do not have the full capacity to embrace truth. Have you ever spoken with evangelical Christians? A lot of them are very friendly akhlaqi people. But if you want to have any sort of intellectual theological discussion with them? Forget about it. 

 

At the end of the day, they believe in God and almost all the prophets. They perform good deeds. And so on. But they are mustadh'af, perhaps due to social reasons, perhaps due to whatever, they do not embrace the full truth. All of us are veiled from the truth to some extent. Everyone is judged according to their capacities. God is the most just.

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3 hours ago, Hussaingujjur said:

I have just joined this site though I should introduce myself here.I was raised as Muslim and I left Islam a year ago.As I was raised a Sunni I had no idea what are the core beliefs of Shia Muslims and how they are different from mainstream Muslims.Only thing I knew about Shia was that they abuse sahaba that was my knowledge about shia.I am curious to know about shias.I would be very grateful if anybody can help me understand shias.
These are few of my questions.
Does Shia beleive that Sunnis are Muslims ? please don't give your personal opinion.I wanna know about what Shia theology says about sunnis.Are they gonna go to "Jannat" ?
And more important is it part of shia religion to abuse sahaba or just they curse first three caliphs out of  sheer hatred ?

When you left Islam a year ago, why do you feel the need to know about Islam again? i.e shia'ism? 

You should have tried to know about it when you were muslim. The definition of muslim is quite clear with us, anyone who believes in the oneness of Allah, takes Him as mola, belive in Quran & what revealed earlier, believes that Muhammad (pbuh) is the last prophet & servant of Allah, believes in all messengers/prophets from Adam (a.s) to Muhammad (pbuh) is a muslim. 

There is no requirement to accept Abu Bakar as first caliph, Umer as second etc.. for becomming a muslim in Islam. 

Now since you have left the pride of humanity ( i.e., accept the huqq ) and adopted the path of deniers, we cannot help you anymore. These spontano-evolutrolls will definately take you to hell. 

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3 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Salaam

And since you refer to it in your thread title, I can't help but observe that perhaps the starting point of your journey was the 'pride'.

wa salaam 
first of all i would like to thanks everybody out there for replying.
yes bro I used to take pride as a Muslim.I was thankful to Allah that I was born into the "true" religion.

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3 hours ago, Unity4Imam said:

an In the name of Allah, the most Magnificent, the most Merciful.

Salam Alaykum brother.

I am not an Islamic Scholar, but If I may, I would like to ask you a few questions about being an atheist....Do you know who Stephen King is?? He is a famous scientist who is an atheist and pretty much lives like a vegetable on wheels, only his brain is not dead, the rest of his body is pretty much dead. The question is, if he thinks there is no God, he came from nothing, he is going back to nothing, there is no heaven and earth, WHY WOULD HE MAKE HIMSELF SUFFER AND STILL LIVING? Why doesn't he kill himself so he can end his suffering? There are a lot of atheists that are homeless or in bad heath condition, if they are not accountable for their deeds in this life, and there is no heaven and hell, nor punishment for their sins, why they never kill themselves and end their sufferings in this world? Why would you want to live in this evil world if you don't believe there is a God?

Wasalam.

With all due respect I would say that it does not make sense to kill yourself just because you don't believe in afterlife.Now may I ask you that why do muslims or for that every religious person goes to doctor whenever he is ill ? Don't they believe in afterlife ? why are they afraid to go "Jannah" ? 

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3 hours ago, Unity4Imam said:

an In the name of Allah, the most Magnificent, the most Merciful.

Salam Alaykum brother.

I am not an Islamic Scholar, but If I may, I would like to ask you a few questions about being an atheist....Do you know who Stephen King is?? He is a famous scientist who is an atheist and pretty much lives like a vegetable on wheels, only his brain is not dead, the rest of his body is pretty much dead. The question is, if he thinks there is no God, he came from nothing, he is going back to nothing, there is no heaven and earth, WHY WOULD HE MAKE HIMSELF SUFFER AND STILL LIVING? Why doesn't he kill himself so he can end his suffering? There are a lot of atheists that are homeless or in bad heath condition, if they are not accountable for their deeds in this life, and there is no heaven and hell, nor punishment for their sins, why they never kill themselves and end their sufferings in this world? Why would you want to live in this evil world if you don't believe there is a God?

Wasalam.

Salam, 

brother your point doesn't make sense. That's a very poor arguement based on personal opinion. A disability does not necessarily effect your quality of life. Even if it does, not everyone believes in suicide as a solution. As an atheist, he'd believe this is his only shot at life. At least in this state/atomic arrangement/awareness. So equally, one can argue, he'll try to live his life to the fullest. Disability or not. This prejudice towards the disabled needs to go. They're not necessarily under constant suffering and not all are depressed. It raises your risk for depression but it doesn't necessarily cause it. Not all who committ suicide are atheist too. Clearly, as some idiots believe it is a form of jihad. 

(What follows is a personal opinion of mine, not associated with any group or sect..) 

To be honest, as a theist, I'm aware that you can argue for the non-existence of God. It's why we call it faith and belief. It is a personal choice we make whether we believe or do not. God takes into account, how you've made your choice. The quran is beautifully written and it has many miraculous verses, though equally, many argue it is not a book of science nor does it hold such miracles. Though there are other form of miracles it presents, such as geographical miracles and its literacy. I made the choice to believe in God because I believe there's evidence for his existence in all that is around me. The complexity of it all. This is subjective evidence, hence unreliable. Others argue, there are too many flaws in said supposed creations, so how can it be a product of an All Powerfull creator? Every arguement of course, has a counter-arguement. In this case, nothing is perfect but He. Point is, you can say something is a shade of green, if the person next to you does not possess the retinal cones to interpret these colours you're seeing, you can be talking for centuries and he won't believe you. It all comes down to your understanding or rather, your capacity to understand. Or perhaps even, your personal agendas. If you enjoy life without a God more than you do one with a God, you'll do (subconsciously or not) whatever it takes to convince yourself of his non-existence. 

Humans are drawn to integrate and merge with their community. Because just like the cells in our body, we work individually to make up a harmonious surviving whole/population- the community, if you will. The more you stand out, the more likely you are to be targeted. Just like in the case of rogue cells, you'll be regarded as a threat. You see this in the animal kingdom too. This is also the issue behind immigration. We're still territorial. It's a primitive instinct that is yet to go. Us vs. them. To be fair, globalisation has only been happening within the last few hundred years. More so today than ever. So it's all still new. Still, point is, your choice to be an atheist might not necessarily have been a true informed choice. It might have been a choice made in order to integrate and merge with your community. I'm not talking about the small sub-communities in the west, of arabs, south-asians or what have you. I'm talking about the bigger picture. What you see on TV, and who you see at work etc. 

There are many reasons not to believe, but personally, I think there are more reasons to believe. 

20 minutes ago, Spiritual said:

There is no requirement to accept Abu Bakar as first caliph, Umer as second etc.. for becomming a muslim in Islam. 

I don't know if I'm remembering correctly, but I think their laws state that you can't reject or be against a caliph and call yourself a muslim. Isn't that the arguement ISIS is using against sunnis who are rejecting the state? But again, I'm not certain. I'm going to try and do a quick search in the evening to find out. inshallah I'll come back and let you know :) 

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16 minutes ago, Hussaingujjur said:

wa salaam 
first of all i would like to thanks everybody out there for replying.
yes bro I used to take pride as a Muslim.I was thankful to Allah that I was born into the "true" religion.

You were :) born into a true religion.

Now you have selected falsehood & assumptions for yourself.

what attracted you towards atheism & what made you to reject the existence of Creator?

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15 minutes ago, Spiritual said:

When you left Islam a year ago, why do you feel the need to know about Islam again? i.e shia'ism? 

 

well I was reading among the believers by v s Naipaul in which he has described his journey to four Muslim countries which also includes about Iran. That's all how my interest began in Shias.

 and there is no written rule that you must study all sects before leaving Islam. For me Quran's verses about slavery,about women's testimony worth half to that of men was enough to have doubts about Islam.Later on I joined an Atheist group of Pakistanis which helped me to leave Islam.

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45 minutes ago, Hussaingujjur said:

wa salaam 
first of all i would like to thanks everybody out there for replying.
yes bro I used to take pride as a Muslim.I was thankful to Allah that I was born into the "true" religion.

I don't want to get too philosophical/pedantic about this, but being thankful for something usually suggests having a sense of obligation towards the other party, since you have received something of value and perhaps not recompensed them appropriately.

Of course, the sentiment of thankfuless is itself important because it is often possible to receive without feeling in any way that a favour has been done. But surely the sentiment is itself the start of a journey that ultimately manifests itself in terms of behaviour that does provides more tangible recompense to the entity to whom we are thankful.

Perhaps leaving Islam was part of the process for withdrawing the feeling of thankfulness because you feel that there is none due any longer.

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1 hour ago, Hussaingujjur said:

well I was reading among the believers by v s Naipaul in which he has described his journey to four Muslim countries which also includes about Iran. That's all how my interest began in Shias.

 and there is no written rule that you must study all sects before leaving Islam. For me Quran's verses about slavery,about women's testimony worth half to that of men was enough to have doubts about Islam.Later on I joined an Atheist group of Pakistanis which helped me to leave Islam.

Can I ask you something?

Do you think your life has gotten better after leaving islam? If yes, how?

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1 hour ago, Hussaingujjur said:

With all due respect I would say that it does not make sense to kill yourself just because you don't believe in afterlife.Now may I ask you that why do muslims or for that every religious person goes to doctor whenever he is ill ? Don't they believe in afterlife ? why are they afraid to go "Jannah" ? 

A doctor is for physical illnesses. That's an entirely different train of thought.

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1 hour ago, Hussaingujjur said:

Now may I ask you that why do muslims or for that every religious person goes to doctor whenever he is ill ? Don't they believe in afterlife ? why are they afraid to go "Jannah" ? 

Going to a doctor has nothing to do with not going to Jannah... rather it's on the contrary.

Like every other thing in this world, our life and our body are a gift from Allah swt and it's incumbent upon us to take good care of them as a sign of thankfulness to His bounties. We can't throw away our lives,waste them in useless pursuits if we hope to enter jannah in the afterlife

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1 hour ago, Hussaingujjur said:

and there is no written rule that you must study all sects before leaving Islam. For me Quran's verses about slavery,about women's testimony worth half to that of men was enough to have doubts about Islam.Later on I joined an Atheist group of Pakistanis which helped me to leave Islam.

A certain Hanbali school does not view Women's testimony as half:

Watch at 1:51 it will answer your questions:

 

In regards to slavery that was abolished over time also the burden of proof rests on you to prove morality or which morality is correct otherwise that is just your emotion or reaction to that:

 

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We do not hate the sahaba, the dust from the sahaba e karam shoes is the kohl for our eyes. 

We hate the hypocrites, who were pretending to be sahaba. Look at surah 63 of the holy quran.

We can identify who the hypocrites were VERY easily by studying their actions after the holy prophet pbuh died. 

Sunni choose comfortable, sweet ignorance, shia choose the painful, bitter truth.

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7 hours ago, Unity4Imam said:

an In the name of Allah, the most Magnificent, the most Merciful.

Salam Alaykum brother.

I am not an Islamic Scholar, but If I may, I would like to ask you a few questions about being an atheist....Do you know who Stephen King is?? He is a famous scientist who is an atheist and pretty much lives like a vegetable on wheels, only his brain is not dead, the rest of his body is pretty much dead. The question is, if he thinks there is no God, he came from nothing, he is going back to nothing, there is no heaven and earth, WHY WOULD HE MAKE HIMSELF SUFFER AND STILL LIVING? Why doesn't he kill himself so he can end his suffering? There are a lot of atheists that are homeless or in bad heath condition, if they are not accountable for their deeds in this life, and there is no heaven and hell, nor punishment for their sins, why they never kill themselves and end their sufferings in this world? Why would you want to live in this evil world if you don't believe there is a God?

Wasalam.

*Stephen Hawking,  not King and he isn't vegetable, his muscles degenerated to the point where he was put in a wheelchair. 

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9 hours ago, Hussaingujjur said:

I have just joined this site though I should introduce myself here.I was raised as Muslim and I left Islam a year ago.As I was raised a Sunni I had no idea what are the core beliefs of Shia Muslims and how they are different from mainstream Muslims.Only thing I knew about Shia was that they abuse sahaba that was my knowledge about shia.I am curious to know about shias.I would be very grateful if anybody can help me understand shias.
These are few of my questions.
Does Shia beleive that Sunnis are Muslims ? please don't give your personal opinion.I wanna know about what Shia theology says about sunnis.Are they gonna go to "Jannat" ?
And more important is it part of shia religion to abuse sahaba or just they curse first three caliphs out of  sheer hatred ?

Shia believes Sunni to be a Muslim and a brother in faith. Cursing of Sahaba is not in any way part of the Shiah creed. For more details about Shiah faith, this link might be of help: https://www.al-islam.org/library/sunni-shia, http://www.islamportal.net/advsearch?Keyword=Shiite+

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4 hours ago, Hussaingujjur said:

 For me Quran's verses about slavery,about women's testimony worth half to that of men was enough to have doubts about Islam.Later on I joined an Atheist group of Pakistanis which helped me to leave Islam.

Thanks for updating me why you're interested to know about Islam.

I think you have no idea of what Islam says about slavery and why women's testimony worth half to that of men, in which conditions & the logical reasons behind that. No need to discuss that subject in detail as you already left and feeling that your knowledge is perfect.

It is a surprise that atheists are so much active in Pakistan. Your comment reminded me the claim of Lawrence Krauss that "religion will become extinct in a generation". 

Let me tell you and assure you, it will be us (shias) who destroy all such evil plans. We did that in past (karbala) and we will do that in future. 

There were people in the past who became murtid, even in the life time of prophet (pbuh). People love to live like animals, free from all chains of morality & divine guidance. The following verse describes best, the atheistic ideology.

Surah Ar-Room, Verse 7:

يَعْلَمُونَ ظَاهِرًا مِّنَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَهُمْ عَنِ الْآخِرَةِ هُمْ غَافِلُونَ

 

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5 hours ago, Hussaingujjur said:

Later on I joined an Atheist group of Pakistanis which helped me to leave Islam.

LOL, Another group of Pakistanis will kill you if they know you're murtid now.

I suggest you to examine neutrally, what you believe earlier and what you're now. Try to examine your journey from light ( of divine guidance) to darkness.

For me, majority of humans, specially Muslims, are atheists. They deny the commands of Allah in different ways. Most of them are doubtful about the hereafter. The only difference between you and them is that you're accepting it, while they dont. 

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58 minutes ago, Salati AbdulQadir said:

Shia believes Sunni to be a Muslim and a brother in faith. Cursing of Sahaba is not in any way part of the Shiah creed.

Is it? I have come across (and I may produce) a linkt to a youtube clip with a quite extensive version of Shia Shahadah. A young Shia from the UK heavily curses Abu Bakr, Omar, Osman and Aisha and testifies they are all in hell. Strangely enough, this brother seems to have proclaimed Shia Shahadah at least on two different opportunities (two different versions available on yt). So is there a consistent stance among Shia with reference to (not) cursing Sahabah and Sunni Kalifs?

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19 hours ago, Hussaingujjur said:

With all due respect I would say that it does not make sense to kill yourself just because you don't believe in afterlife.Now may I ask you that why do muslims or for that every religious person goes to doctor whenever he is ill ? Don't they believe in afterlife ? why are they afraid to go "Jannah" ? 

Bismillah.

Salam Alaykum.

Come on brother, you are not being honest with yourself. If you are suffering from painful and incurable illness, and you don't believe in God and in the afterlife.. you still wanna live a very painful life?? Why would you want to live for?? As a believer in God, I know that death is in the hands of my Creator, Allah, and if I get sick... I would definitely go to the doctor to get well. The doctor doesn't cure me, my Creator cures me through the help of the doctor, it doesn't have anything to do with me wanting to go to heaven or Jannah! If my Creator has a set time for me, I  could not live one millisecond  before or after that time.

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19 hours ago, yusur317 said:

brother your point doesn't make sense. That's a very poor arguement based on personal opinion. A disability does not necessarily effect your quality of life.

Wasalam.

Bismillah.

I was not arguing with him, if you read my post again, I simply asked him a question. I was not talking about Stephen Hawking's disability at all, I was talking about his suffering and him being an atheist. There is a big difference between a person being disabled and a person who is suffering! If you would like me to define the word "suffering" to you, please let me know and I will gladly define it to you.

Wasalam.

 

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16 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

*Stephen Hawking,  not King and he isn't vegetable, his muscles degenerated to the point where he was put in a wheelchair. 

Bismillah

Salam Alaykum

I said he is pretty much like a vegetable.......would you like me to define that for you?

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3 hours ago, Unity4Imam said:

Bismillah

Salam Alaykum

I said he is pretty much like a vegetable.......would you like me to define that for you?

Physically, yes he is but mentally, no way.  And no thanks, I don't know need definition on something that I already know. 

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