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DigitalUmmah

are noha/ latmiyya "pop" videos a good thing?

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Salam, Ya Ali (as) Madad, Lanat upon the enemies of the Ahlulbayt (as)

 I might be showing my age here, but I noticed that many modern noha videos have an ever increasing production budget and more and more..."acting" by the recitors.

for example, most noha videos from my youth were like this:

 

its just guys reciting.

nowadays, it seems to have mutated into some bieber-esque shenanigans, may i present exhibit A:

 

bruv.

BRUV.

many of these recitors have a HUGE female following on social media, and are always uploading selfies, which have about 1000 girls commenting underneath (not that im jealous or anything...grumble grumble grumble)

on the one hand, Im glad that the youth have SOME interest still in azadari, even if its through gayboys. on the other hand, azadari is no joking matter, and I dont feel comfortable looking at the direction its taking.

what do other members think?

 

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30 minutes ago, magma said:

Also, I would say such a trend is a natural consequence of certain cultural inclinations. I'll leave it at that for some to ponder.

 

This.

 

It's for the same reason that autotune (or the "T Pain box," as it used to be called) has become a common feature of latmiyaat.

 

This is coupled with the notion that looks and voice are the only thing to be valued in a zakir whereas these individuals are supposed to also uphold the akhlaq of ahlul bayt. 

 

Because of influences from "crooner" culture, there is also an army of stupid teenage girls clamoring over these zakirs. I feel sorry for the reciters; who else would pass such a test?

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The first video is the real deal, a live event noha. The second video is noha created in the studio sound stage with added aerial views of holy sites. We cannot compare the two. Both have value according to our own sentiments.

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On 9/9/2016 at 7:22 PM, DigitalUmmah said:

on the one hand, Im glad that the youth have SOME interest still in azadari, even if its through gayboys. on the other hand, azadari is no joking matter, and I dont feel comfortable looking at the direction its taking.

what do other members think?

a very uncouth and erring on 'tauhmat' remark bro DU, kindly desist from slandering. It is not good for the soul.

The thing with me is I do not report my shia bros, I just tell them directly.

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:bismillah:

:salam:

First off, like Hameedeh said, you're comparing apples to oranges. The first is a live noha, obviously there are no production values. If it was a video noha, then, yes, going back even 20 years, people have been doing hand gestures in Nohas for quite some time (Nadeem Sarwar, his father, for example) and, personally, I don't find any problems with either the actions or the high production values. So, he's moving his hands round a bit. How is that making the noha any less powerful or somehow degrading the stature of azadari? And, there are some graphics effects in the video but none of them are too fancy, and they're all showing the shrine of the Imam. Would you rather they didn't show the shrine? Four lines in dividing that picture doesn't make it somehow bad. All this seems to be much ado about nothing; moving hands and using video effects; it's 2016 so yes, the videos will be more advanced than those from 30 years ago, made on VCRs.

The second part, though, about female followers and whatnot is definitely troubling. These people are not pop-stars and we shouldn't idolise them like they are. Even then, apart from the fact that they are uploading selfies (which, let's face it, everyone is doing these days so...), the blame is not on the recitors but on the audience and the fans for posting such comments. If they aren't actively soliciting these comments, I still don't see how the quality of azadari is degrading directly as a result of the recitors, themselves.

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1 minute ago, baradar_jackson said:

 

IMO videos should keep the showing of the reciter to a minimum. This is not because "reciters are bad" but rather to discourage the pop idol culture.

 

And yes it is problematic for them to post selfies regardless of what the general public is doing. Would you imagine Sayyed Sistani posting a selfie?

 

Reciters may not be held to such high standards but they still must be held to higher standards than the regular folk. They are teaching people about ahlul bayt, essentially. They are strengthening people's emotional ties to ahlul bayt. As such, they must uphold certain moral standards.

Now, I don't know what kinds of selfies these people are posting (duckface, normal pictures when they go out to eat with friends and so on) but many of our scholars (not the maraje, obviously, but respected lecturers, especially those based in the West) do use Facebook, Twitter and so on and post pictures on those platforms. Simply posting pictures of yourself is not, and has never been, wrong. And, to bring Ayatollah Sistani into this is entirely unfair because I can't imagine Ayatollah Sistani doing a lot of things you and I do. I don't imagine him visiting this forum, either. That doesn't mean that it's bad - otherwise, why are you here?

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34 minutes ago, Khadim uz Zahra said:

Now, I don't know what kinds of selfies these people are posting (duckface, normal pictures when they go out to eat with friends and so on) but many of our scholars (not the maraje, obviously, but respected lecturers, especially those based in the West) do use Facebook, Twitter and so on and post pictures on those platforms. Simply posting pictures of yourself is not, and has never been, wrong. And, to bring Ayatollah Sistani into this is entirely unfair because I can't imagine Ayatollah Sistani doing a lot of things you and I do. I don't imagine him visiting this forum, either. That doesn't mean that it's bad - otherwise, why are you here?

 

Once again, I aint talking about general public. I do not think reciters should be held to the same standards as the general public.

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Except, I wasn't talking about the general public. I was talking about scholars doing the same. I'm not talking about bathroom selfies but they do post their pictures on the internet. And, again, it's not immoral to post pictures. Holding recitors to a higher standard is only applicable when what they're doing is less than recommended when, in fact, posting pictures is just Mubah. So, it's an arbitrary standard you've just set with no actual need. Unless you can actually point to something negative happening as a result, it's simply akin to saying they shouldn't eat ice cream because they need to be held to a higher standard.

 

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1 hour ago, Khadim uz Zahra said:

it's simply akin to saying they shouldn't eat ice cream because they need to be held to a higher standard.

THEY EAT ICE CREAM?? STONE THE HERETICS!!!!

seriously though, the problem we have with this sort of shenanigan isn't so much holding to a different standard compared with regular people (although I believe we should), and more to do with focus. when the video is focused more on the reciter, it distracts from the azadari. I agree with @baradar_jackson that the focus on the recitor in videos should be kept to a minimum. 

I am conflicted though. if screaming fangirls obsess over young noha recitors, at least they are spending their energy (indirectly) on something better than western pop idols and film stars. 

this is a problem I have always had with nadeem sarwar, as mentioned earlier, he was one of the first to make it BIG by being in these kinds of videos. If you look at other main noha recitors from that period, for example ravi road, katri bawa, chakwal or even shabab ul momineen, most didnt even have videos at all. we used to get audio cassettes sent to us from pakistan and that was the only way we used to ever hear noha. when I was a kid, we only had a couple of azadari VHS, one was a video diary of shabab ul momineen going on ziarat shaam in 1990 (when you could do tatbir in the courtyard), and one was katri bawa (back when they were shazada party) all sat in a single room reading noha sat on the floor. 

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The bottom line with these should be to ask yourself, after I listen to one of these Noha / Latmiyya what effect does it have on me. Does it make me remember Allah (s.w.a), Imam Hussein, etc. Does it make me stronger in my religion or does it make me dream about and / or get attached to the recited  (for sisters obviously). If the former is the case, then it is a positive thing. If the latter is the case then it is harmful. 

This style, second one is not personally appealing to me and it would just annoying me so I don't listen to these. I prefer the old school, live, non produced ones. But that's me. I realize others are different. 

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2 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

This style, second one is not personally appealing to me and it would just annoying me so I don't listen to these. I prefer the old school, live, non produced ones. But that's me. I realize others are different. 

please please pray for my parents health and happiness. 

 

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Nope, these kind of videos are not a good thing...they're terrible!  I have been shouting at the tele for years whenever this kind of thing comes on. Surely the words of whatever they are reciting should be enough to elicit gham e Hussain (as) in the people? Why do they have to do so much acting? Do they make a lot of money? There is no need for it.

I may be wrong, but in Pakistan, it seems to be mostly the urdu speaking lot who come out with these videos? And why do  they feel the need to always bring in a bit of farsi to their nohays?  The average Pakistani isn't going to understand a word of what is being said...I certainly don't. If it's mainly aimed at a Pakistani audience, why can't they just stick to urdu? 

Terrible.

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Guest silasun

Does it not say lot about ourr understanding of Islam as a collective that such "halal music videos" (as if insulting the Imam is halal) are so popular? 

I have often thought to myself: I know a tonne of people in South Iraq who are "mad for Hussain (as) "- latmiyyat and majalis watching on TV 24/7, whether muharram or not. Houses draped in black for months. Going on Ziarat all day every day. These same people are some of the most insulting people I have met- there is a culture in Iraq (which is meant to be a Shia heartland) of mocking everyone and everything- your 2 year old son to your 20 year old disabled cousin. These same people who are "majnun" are people are those who somehow make everybody's life hell.

I recall walking on the pavement jn Iraq with my uncle. Suddenly, we had to step into a busy main road (perhaps the biggest highway in the city- Brits read M27-esque) because some imbeciles decided to erect a mawkib for Imam Hussain in the middle of the pavement... I even found that in Iraq, you are much more prone to commit sin than in the UK, due to retarded cultural values so many people had.

All this stinks of an intellectually and spiritually ill understanding of Imam Hussain. Mourn, cry, beat your chest- but make sure that every muharram you become a better person.

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8 hours ago, lalala123 said:

I may be wrong, but in Pakistan, it seems to be mostly the urdu speaking lot who come out with these videos? And why do  they feel the need to always bring in a bit of farsi to their nohays?  The average Pakistani isn't going to understand a word of what is being said...I certainly don't. If it's mainly aimed at a Pakistani audience, why can't they just stick to urdu? 

Its a karachi thing.

faux Iranian is the vogue there. you ever heard pakis speaking urdu with a farsi accent? yeah. this is a symptom of that.

shout out to punjabi noha recitors :sunglasses:

7 hours ago, silasun said:

Does it not say lot about ourr understanding of Islam as a collective that such "halal music videos" (as if insulting the Imam is halal) are so popular? 

I think it shows that youth want to have an idol, so divert their attention to noha recitors

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10 hours ago, silasun said:

Does it not say lot about ourr understanding of Islam as a collective that such "halal music videos" (as if insulting the Imam is halal) are so popular? 

I have often thought to myself: I know a tonne of people in South Iraq who are "mad for Hussain (as) "- latmiyyat and majalis watching on TV 24/7, whether muharram or not. Houses draped in black for months. Going on Ziarat all day every day. These same people are some of the most insulting people I have met- there is a culture in Iraq (which is meant to be a Shia heartland) of mocking everyone and everything- your 2 year old son to your 20 year old disabled cousin. These same people who are "majnun" are people are those who somehow make everybody's life hell.

I recall walking on the pavement jn Iraq with my uncle. Suddenly, we had to step into a busy main road (perhaps the biggest highway in the city- Brits read M27-esque) because some imbeciles decided to erect a mawkib for Imam Hussain in the middle of the pavement... I even found that in Iraq, you are much more prone to commit sin than in the UK, due to retarded cultural values so many people had.

All this stinks of an intellectually and spiritually ill understanding of Imam Hussain. Mourn, cry, beat your chest- but make sure that every muharram you become a better person.

This kind of behaviour from whoever it comes from is an insult to the word shia . 

Only time call tell who are true Shias ... 

No wonder Imam Reza ( a) rejected meeting people who called themselves Shias ...

This sadly is most likely going to happen with the Qaim, on a bigger scale...

Edited by certainclarity

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