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Nawal444

Mecca or Karabala

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1 hour ago, Akbar673 said:

Mecca, obviously...

but what have you been taught is the most holy place for Shia? :einstein:

let me guess, you've been taught that Karbala is the holiest place for Shia, followed by Najaf and then Qum, etc...:censored:

many bakris believe that the shia qiblah is karbala

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30 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

many bakris believe that the shia qiblah is karbala

another layer of Wahabbi propaganda against Shia.

To spread the lie that Karbala supercedes Mecca. i.e. Ziyarath of Imam Husain (AS) is more important than Haj.

What's even worse is that a few ignorant Shia have started to believe that the hadith which states a Ziyarath of Karbala being equal to X amount of Haj(s) means that visiting Karbala is higher than Haj.  

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11 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

another layer of Wahabbi propaganda against Shia.

To spread the lie that Karbala supercedes Mecca. i.e. Ziyarath of Imam Husain (AS) is more important than Haj.

What's even worse is that a few ignorant Shia have started to believe that the hadith which states a Ziyarath of Karbala being equal to X amount of Haj(s) means that visiting Karbala is higher than Haj.  

Please be patient with me, I am a convert to shia Islam, and I thought this hadith was authentic. Now I'm really confused. Ugh.

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12 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

What's even worse is that a few ignorant Shia have started to believe that the hadith which states a Ziyarath of Karbala being equal to X amount of Haj(s) means that visiting Karbala is higher than Haj.  

ugh. tell me about it. 

if my overtime at work is worth double my hourly rate, that doesn't mean I can skip my mandated hours and only work overtime lol...how do shia not understand this???

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28 minutes ago, FreeSpirit said:

Please be patient with me, I am a convert to shia Islam, and I thought this hadith was authentic. Now I'm really confused. Ugh.

This is the perspective I hold on it...

Haj is Wajib, of that there is no doubt.

Doing a Ziyarath of Karbala (or any other Imam, for that matter) is massive in importance too. Not Wajib, but I would say its barely a milimeter below the level of Wajib. This would be due to the face that the benefits of that are so immense from a spiritual standpoint. That's why we have so many hadith attributed to the Imams (AS) speaking on its importance. No doubt about that.

I personally would say a Shia needs to do both in their lifetime (as well as the Ziyaraths of the other Ahle Bayt (AS)).

That being said, Haj is still ahead of that and should be prioritized as such. 

Someone else can probably do a better job than I have of explaining this.

I see Haj as establishing your convenant with Allah. Whereas, a Ziyarath is a way of pledging your loyalty to that Imam (AS).

Again, someone else can probably elucidate on this better than I have.

Edited by Akbar673

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35 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

another layer of Wahabbi propaganda against Shia.

To spread the lie that Karbala supercedes Mecca. i.e. Ziyarath of Imam Husain (AS) is more important than Haj.

What's even worse is that a few ignorant Shia have started to believe that the hadith which states a Ziyarath of Karbala being equal to X amount of Haj(s) means that visiting Karbala is higher than Haj.  

 

22 minutes ago, FreeSpirit said:

Please be patient with me, I am a convert to shia Islam, and I thought this hadith was authentic. Now I'm really confused. Ugh.

The hadith is accepted but the related ahadiths explain that this particular narration:

a- is not applicable on Hajjatu Sayrorah (The hajjatul Islam, or the first ever Hajj in person's life, the obligatory one). It means that no matter how many times you visited the shrine of Imam Hussain, your visits do not make you free from the obligatory hajj.

 

b- The narration should not be used to discourage Shia from performing mustahab hajj. Imam himself stated that: if it was not for my fear that some Shia will get discouraged from attending mustahab hajj... then imam get on and tells his companion about the rewards of visiting imam hussain shrine that the reward s equal to the reward of X mustahab hajj.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, FreeSpirit said:

Please be patient with me, I am a convert to shia Islam, and I thought this hadith was authentic. Now I'm really confused. Ugh.

its like doing extra, non mandatory prayers man. the thawaab for some may be "more" than your mandatory salah, but that doesnt mean miss your mandatory salah and only do the other ones. 

same for hajj - its mandatory on all muslims. so long as you go to hajj at least once in your life, youre good. 

if you *can* go to hajj, and have the opportunity, but dont, because you wanna go ziarat? not good. 

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1 hour ago, alidu78 said:

Unfortunately, I don't speak the language they are speaking in and the subtitles are in French.

Do you have anything in English (or English subtitles)?

Edited by Akbar673

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5 hours ago, alidu78 said:

I heard some shia clerics quoted hadiths wich say that Kerbala is holiest than Mecca.

I also heard this , and I heard that shia do pilgrimage to kerbala ! ... I also saw video about shia sheikh who said that shia should go to kerbala rather then mecca to support their other shia not spend money to mecca and support saudia .

 

and I did agree with him that the hajj became more like business and saudi government became so greedy .

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58 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

Well i dont know, maybe just see the videos of anti majos on YouTube.

You want me to watch an Anti Majos video to prove your point ? :hahaha:

6 hours ago, alidu78 said:

I heard some shia clerics quoted hadiths wich say that Kerbala is holiest than Mecca.

I'm gonna need a name(s) and a reference to the Hadith which you spoke of. 

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5 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

its like doing extra, non mandatory prayers man. the thawaab for some may be "more" than your mandatory salah, but that doesnt mean miss your mandatory salah and only do the other ones. 

same for hajj - its mandatory on all muslims. so long as you go to hajj at least once in your life, youre good. 

if you *can* go to hajj, and have the opportunity, but dont, because you wanna go ziarat? not good. 

:salam:

This. Once for all, this is how the hadith should be interpretated. Thanks brother DU (we can agree sometimes!).

No hajj to karbala, no qibla to Imam Hussein (as), no fake Qibla in Iraq, no anti-majos, no abdelllhakim takfiri youtube channel.

Enough with that nonsense ...

4 hours ago, alidu78 said:

With utmost respect, you were kicked out of a french forum for repeatedly posting weird questions about Iran while being yourself half Iranian.

Go learn shia Islam from Iranians if that's what you really want. If you fall for fitna tricks no big deal; however I highly doubt one can stay in a state of doubt for years like you have been.

Learn things in depth and make up you mind for good, please.

Edited by realizm

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9 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

You want me to watch an Anti Majos video to prove your point ? :hahaha:

I'm gonna need a name(s) and a reference to the Hadith which you spoke of. 

I showed you two vidéos of well know shia scholars who talked about that . I talked about anti majos because I think they quoted the same people with english subtitle .

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9 hours ago, realizm said:

 

Enough with that nonsense ...

With utmost respect, you were kicked out of a french forum for repeatedly posting weird questions about Iran while being yourself half Iranian.

Go learn shia Islam from Iranians if that's what you really want. If you fall for fitna tricks no big deal; however I highly doubt one can stay in a state of doubt for years like you have been.

Learn things in depth and make up you mind for good, please.

Your statement is totally wrong for many reasons.

first the brother talked where I found scholars who talked about kerbala higher than mecca and I gave this vidéo, what is wrong with that ?

Secondly why do you speak about this useless forum al imane wich had lost all credibility among shia francophones ? 

Why do you want I learn shia islma from iranians in particular ? If you really want to know pratically all iranians I know in france are atheist or just dont care about religion .

finally I didnt try to do "fitnah" I just show these vidéos where the scholars talked about the topic of this forum . What is wrong with that ?

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Many a time We have seen you turn your face towards heaven. We will make you turn towards a 'qiblah' that will please you. (Surah Baqara)

then there came a time when the Grandson of the same Prophet 'turned' towards karbala while muslims kept to their mecca. 

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4 minutes ago, Purged said:

Many a time We have seen you turn your face towards heaven. We will make you turn towards a 'qiblah' that will please you. (Surah Baqara)

then there came a time when the Grandson of the same Prophet 'turned' towards karbala while muslims kept to their mecca. 

Are you accusing Imam Hussain of turning his back to the holy mosque?

There was an order to assassinate him even if he was hanging on the clothes of Ka'abah. Imam Hussain left Mecca to keep its sacred land and the sacred season of Hajj unaffected by Ummayiah injustice. To save the land from the blood shed in the holiest spot.

He moved to the frontline of his enemies and to those who called him for help and to those who offered the help. 

After Imam Hussain martyrdom, imams stayed at Madinah and attended Hajj each and every year.

Mecca is Al-bait Al-Ateeq, the unowned house. The house and its land has been always none private land. It is not their Mecca.. It is Ahlulbayt Mecca.

 

When Imam ZainulAbideen introduced himself to ignorant masses he said : I am the son of Zamzam and Safa.

Quote

 

“Those who know me, they know me. And those who do not know, then listen:

“I am the son of Mecca and Mina; I am the son of Zamzam and Safa; I am the son of the noble one who placed the black stone in the Ka’bah; I am the son of the one who put on the Ihram and did Tawaf; I am the son of the one who was taken from Masjidul Haram to Masjidul Aqsa [in Me’raj]; I am the son of one on whom Allah sent revelations;

 

He did not say I am son of Karbala, he said I am the son of the man who was killed in Karbala

Quote

“I am the son of Hussain, who was killed in Karbala; I am the son of Muhammad al-Mustafa; I am the son of Fatima Zahra; I am the son of Khadija al-Kubra;
“I am the son of the one who was killed and left in a pool of his own blood; I am the son of the one who was left without a shroud and without burial; I am the son of the one who was killed thirsty.”

This should not be taken as disregard to the high place of Karbala. But neither the case of Karbala should be used to undermine the high status of Ka'abah.

As Brother Magma said, the whole thread is pointless but it shows how many Shia can be moved by fake slogans. 

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1 minute ago, Purged said:

no brother, im accusing ppl of turning away from the Imam (as) 

We've a hadith from imam Baqir a.s that he says: the Ka'aba is an excuse for worshipers and people to get over here so they can know/understand us better.

Macca/Ka'aba has been made just for us (Imams).

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Makkah is HEART for me while Karbala is HEARTBEAT.

The heart's function is to beat continuously and heartbeats indicates the liveliness of heart. Those who love Makkah & don't know the value of Karbala are dead hearted people, they posses dead hearts.

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