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In the Name of God بسم الله

Shia scholar: Slaves can be lent out (Imam Mahdi)

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Salaam

 

I just found this, I think it's a propaganda video, but I may be wrong.

Now, I don't know whether Al-Haeri is right or wrong. What is our response to those who attack Shiism after this video?

Thank you.

 

Edited by Ali-F
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MEMRI is an organization that is against Islam. They take a whole video and clip a part of it into a small segment and mistranslate it into English and try to show Islam is bad. When you see a video has the MEMRI name on it, you should avoid it.

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6 hours ago, Ali-F said:

Yes I know, dear sister, but let's look at the video: is the scholar true? We have to reply back.

No we don't need to watch MEMRI videos. This gives their youtube channel more views and makes them look popular. That scholar is not your marja, so forget about it. If your own marja made such a video, naoozibillah, then you could be upset about it and reply to it. Have you looked at wikipedia to see who founded MEMRI?

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2 hours ago, hameedeh said:

No we don't need to watch MEMRI videos. This gives their youtube channel more views and makes them look popular. That scholar is not your marja, so forget about it. If your own marja made such a video, naoozibillah, then you could be upset about it and reply to it. Have you looked at wikipedia to see who founded MEMRI?

 

True, he's not my marja, but perhaps a non-Muslim would say: "Is this true" and should we then say: "We don't reply back to Memri videos".

Thats a backwards mindset, because we have to respond even though it's fake and tell the truth, you see?

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3 hours ago, Ali-F said:

True, he's not my marja, but perhaps a non-Muslim would say: "Is this true" and should we then say: "We don't reply back to Memri videos".

Thats a backwards mindset, because we have to respond even though it's fake and tell the truth, you see?

Dear Brother, by creating this topic you are spreading a false MEMRI video. The part of the video that comes before this clip, and the part that comes after it, have both been removed. If you notice, the man in the video is smiling, he is not serious. It's possible it is a joke within a serious subject. If you need a reply to the person who showed you the video, please use the PM to discuss such false videos by MEMRI.   

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Sorry but I think it's a bit of a cop out - sure MEMRI is a zionist organisation with its anti-Islamic agenda but most of the time they simply translate things that have actually been said. Pointing out that MEMRI is zionist and anti-Islam does not change whats in the videos. If you watch this particular video, there is no possible context which could significantly change what the scholar said: when the Imam comes all the classical rules relating to slavery will once again apply, Muslims will be able to have slave girls and share them. It's not a joke, it's in classical fiqh books, if he's smiling it's probably because he is a bit embarassed to be mentioning sex in public. 

 

I personally find it disturbing that in the age of ISIS a Shia scholar is saying stuff like this which will make people wonder "how the hell are these Shias different from ISIS then, when their time comes they will be exactly the same". I find it very problematic and trying to fob it off just by saying that its a zionist organisation that picked up on it just isnt a sufficient reply. Obviously it is the people who want to ridicule Islam who will pick up on this, this is useful to them so they use it but they do not make it up, they just cynically use what we ourselves give them on a plate. 

 

 

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To be fair to the scholar, he does say 'if there are people or nations that oppose the Imam and fight him'. This isn't really comparable to ISIS, since from a non-Muslim point of view, this is a completely mythical scenario, since they don't believe there ever will be an Imam. And if hypothetically there was such a person, sent by God, and people decided to fight against him, then obviously they would suffer severe consequences. It's not like he said when the Imam comes, we are going to take over the world, capturing slave-girls as we go.

Also, while I don't think it's very smart in this day and age to be talking about this stuff on camera, because it is so open to misinterpretation, the video doesn't show whether he was giving a lecture on the topic, or  answering a question that was posed to him.

But yeah, let's face it, there really was no need to be going into a whole scenario with someone lending his slave-girls to his friends, or whatever.

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14 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

To be fair to the scholar, he does say 'if there are people or nations that oppose the Imam and fight him'. This isn't really comparable to ISIS, since from a non-Muslim point of view, this is a completely mythical scenario, since they don't believe there ever will be an Imam. And if hypothetically there was such a person, sent by God, and people decided to fight against him, then obviously they would suffer severe consequences. It's not like he said when the Imam comes, we are going to take over the world, capturing slave-girls as we go.

Not really, from a non-Muslim point of view it looks more or less like this: "These guys are awaiting some mythical figure, when someone claiming to be that figure shows up and at least a group among them believe his claim, they will be exactly like ISIS", in other words these guys are only different from ISIS because their time hasn't come yet.

 

Ideally it would be nice to see that in the face of ISIS atrocities we are critically rethinking certain aspects of our classical tradition, leaving things like slavery categorically in the past. But at the very least I would expect our leaders to have some PR sense in them. I mean come on, a significant religious leader talking about having sex with slave girls and sharing them out to your buddies, with a smile on his face, in the 21 century. I really want to respect all our ulama but this is both shocking and completely childish. 

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1 minute ago, Curious Ahmed said:

Not really, from a non-Muslim point of view it looks more or less like this: "These guys are awaiting some mythical figure, when someone claiming to be that figure shows up and at least a group among them believe his claim, they will be exactly like ISIS", in other words these guys are only different from ISIS because their time hasn't come yet.

Yeah, possibly, but then let's be honest here, there is lots of stuff modern non-Muslims will find to criticise about Islam anyway, such as it's position on homosexuality, or women, to take two topics that are frequently in the news.

 

1 minute ago, Curious Ahmed said:

Ideally it would be nice to see that in the face of ISIS atrocities we are critically rethinking certain aspects of our classical tradition, leaving things like slavery categorically in the past.

In what sense? What ISIS are doing is clearly wrong from the Shia point of view. In terms of slavery as a concept though, it's a bit difficult to say much more than the conditions that allow for it no longer exist. We can't look at what ISIS are doing, and respond by making slavery unconditionally haram/evil/whatever. Because then you need to deal with the fact that it is there in black and white in the Qur'an, and in the lives of the Prophet (s) and the Imams (a).

 

1 minute ago, Curious Ahmed said:

But at the very least I would expect our leaders to have some PR sense in them. I mean come on, a significant religious leader talking about having sex with slave girls and sharing them out to your buddies, with a smile on his face, in the 21 century. I really want to respect all our ulama but this is both shocking and completely childish. 

I more or less agree with this, although I'm not sure what being in the 21st century has to do with it. It seems to convey the notion that as time passes, we are somehow becoming 'better', when in fact the evidence would indicate the contrary.

As for scholars saying dumb stuff, it's not the first time, and it won't be the last either. I wouldn't twist myself into knots in order to maintain 'respect' for all of them.

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I agree with you both.

Slavery doesn't exist this age, and there are obviously scholars having a strong difference in what he is saying (if he actually meant it). Furthermore, such sayings create a very unfamiliar atmosphere for us young Muslims. Imagine a non-Muslim coming and asking me: "Listen, Ali, you're a Shiite, but how come this guy say you don't disagree with slavery". People will have different opinions regarding us and we have to defend ourselves. 

 

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