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saeid tavakoli

marry with transsexual

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salam freinds

suppose you marry with someone and after marriage you find out your spouse was a transsexuall and now she/he is a woman or man!

what's your reaction?

do you cut off this relationship or continue?

 
 
 
Edited by saeid tavakoli

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Ws,

Well, I think the real question is, do you want to be married to physiologically unstable human?

Or maybe I should ask, do you want to be married to an abomination of nature?

Also if such a thing would be the case as the person you married did not mention this before the marriage took place then I would personally be upset for obvious reasons.

Why do you ask this?

Edited by IbnSina

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39 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Ws,

Well, I think the real question is, do you want to be married to physiologically unstable human?

Or maybe I should ask, do you want to be married to an abomination of nature?

Also if such a thing would be the case as the person you married did not mention this before the marriage took place then I would personally be upset for obvious reasons.

Why do you ask this?

It's wrong labelling an individual as 'and abomination of nature'........

Iran has one of the highest no's of sex changes in the world .....

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8 minutes ago, Sitar said:

It's wrong labelling an individual as 'and abomination of nature'........

Iran has one of the highest no's of sex changes in the world .....

So what, just because Iranians are into this, it doesn't make it acceptable. 

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

Ws,

Well, I think the real question is, do you want to be married to physiologically unstable human?

Or maybe I should ask, do you want to be married to an abomination of nature?

Also if such a thing would be the case as the person you married did not mention this before the marriage took place then I would personally be upset for obvious reasons.

Why do you ask this?

Excuse me if im wrong but ayatollah khomeini didnt allow transexuality in iran ?

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I wouldn't marry a transexual person , simply because I want children and I wouldn't be able to have one with a transgender person . 

 

second I wouldn't stay in marriage that based of lies and desiption .

 

third , something you didn't know is that simple check up before marriage would show you if the person you marrying is male or female .

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1 hour ago, sakura1994 said:

I wouldn't marry a transexual person , simply because I want children and I wouldn't be able to have one with a transgender person . 

 

second I wouldn't stay in marriage that based of lies and desiption .

 

third , something you didn't know is that simple check up before marriage would show you if the person you marrying is male or female .

How about the fact that those things are mentally ill ?

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so....much...ignorance in this thread. 

stay in school kids, education is important, mmkay?

would you call individuals born with a genetic condition causing them to be born with both sets of organs "abominations of nature" etc? are they at fault or worthy of hate for the way that Allah made them? 

I wouldn't marry a transsexual simply because they most likely cannot bear me children, but they're human beings with a right to dignity and respect and kindness and decency like other people. 

before you all start saying "herpy derp but cross dressing is haram you liberal feminist" please understand that my definition of a transsexual is one who is born with both sets of reproductive organs, not a dude who likes wearing a dress and being called penelope. 

 

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Transsexual to me is someone who was naturally born one gender but felt like they were the other gender so they had a sex change, as if Allah(SWT) would create someone with the wrong gender, not as intended.

@DigitalUmmah

According to what you said above you would be absolutely fine with having mutah with someone who has two genders, nice....

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1 minute ago, IbnSina said:

According to what you said above you would be absolutely fine with having mutah with someone who has two genders, nice....

I wouldnt do mutah with a transsexual either, that doesn't mean I hate them or find them disgusting

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11 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I wouldnt do mutah with a transsexual either, that doesn't mean I hate them or find them disgusting

We have different definitions of what a transsexuel person is.

You say its someone born with two genders.

I say its some who has a gender change.

You do not think for example that a born woman that decides that they are a man and gets operatrated and breats removed and pumps herself with hormones to get more facial hair turns out like a abomination? Something against nature?

What a about the opposite, the man who gets his privates removed and shaves legs and other things and gets breast implants, wear make up and wig, is this not an abomination?

Guess i didnt go to school and i dont have an education because i think humans that goes against their nature and the way Allah created them are abominations.

Guess i wasnt born and raises in one of the most liberal, if not the biggest, countries of planet earth. They even have a word for a third gender you know...

Edited by IbnSina

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4 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

You do not think for example that a born woman that decides that they are a man and gets operatrated and breats removed and pumps herself with hormones to get more facial hair turns out like a abomination? Something against nature?

What a about the opposite, the man who gets his privates removed and shaves legs and other things and gets breast implants, wear make up and wig, is this not an abomination?

I don't see any issue at all with gender realignment for people born with pre existing genetic conditions, which allows them to live a normal life. what's the alternate? be treated like a freak of nature and abomination for their entire lives because some people find gender realignment surgery uncomfortable to think about?

I think Iran actually has the right idea. its not like Iran is rounding up all the gays and forcing them to become women. 

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10 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I don't see any issue at all with gender realignment for people born with pre existing genetic conditions, which allows them to live a normal life. what's the alternate? be treated like a freak of nature and abomination for their entire lives because some people find gender realignment surgery uncomfortable to think about?

I think Iran actually has the right idea. its not like Iran is rounding up all the gays and forcing them to become women. 

In the book of imam Ali's judgement's he too made such a judgement , after recommending some tests , and asked the female, to live a life of a male and dress like a man after he was considered a man... and no more a woman...

Edited by certainclarity

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4 minutes ago, certainclarity said:

In the book of imam Ali's judgement's he too made such a judgement , after recommending some tests , and asked the female, to live a life of a male and dress like a man after he was considered a man... and no more a woman...

Well, there you have it then. 

go ahead and argue against maula Ali (as), guys 

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1 minute ago, certainclarity said:

In imam Ali's judgement's he too made such a judgement , after recommending some tests , and asked the female, to live a life of a male and dress like a man after he was considered a man... and no more a woman...

What is the source of what you claim? And what do you think the Imam(as) would say if "considering" yourself the opposite gender ment body mutilation which it does today. Have you guys forgotten that this is not our bodies to mutilate as we will?

 

13 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I don't see any issue at all with gender realignment for people born with pre existing genetic conditions, which allows them to live a normal life. what's the alternate? be treated like a freak of nature and abomination for their entire lives because some people find gender realignment surgery uncomfortable to think about?

I think Iran actually has the right idea. its not like Iran is rounding up all the gays and forcing them to become women. 

Then we will have to agree to disagree. But I hope you are a man of your word and who knows maybe inshaAllah in the future you will marry Martin that snipped his privates and calls himself sorry I meant herself Martina and then you can adopt a Chinese child and raise it as you own.

Anyways I think we have different fundamental understandings regarding one being born in "the wrong body".

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5 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Then we will have to agree to disagree. But I hope you are a man of your word and who knows maybe inshaAllah in the future you will marry Martin that snipped his privates and calls himself sorry I meant herself Martina and then you can adopt a Chinese child and raise it as you own.

Anyways I think we have different fundamental understandings regarding one being born in "the wrong body".

if she could bear my kids, and if she was genuinely born with both sets of organs so had the deformed ones removed? id probably be ok you know. legitly. the dealbreaker for me is fertility. 

if "she" was born a man called derek who decided he wanted to be a woman after going to a beyonce concert? nope.

Edited by DigitalUmmah

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3 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

before you all start saying "herpy derp but cross dressing is haram you liberal feminist" please understand that my definition of a transsexual is one who is born with both sets of reproductive organs, not a dude who likes wearing a dress and being called penelope. 

That may be your own personal definition, but out here in the rest of the world what you are referring to is a hermaphrodite. A transsexual is someone who believes that their biological gender doesn't match the gender they identify with in their mind (and this is again different from being a transvestite; i.e. dressing up like the opposite gender).

But yes, I agree. People should stay in school, and education is important.

 

Edited by Haydar Husayn

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2 hours ago, certainclarity said:

In the book of imam Ali's judgement's he too made such a judgement , after recommending some tests , and asked the female, to live a life of a male and dress like a man after he was considered a man... and no more a woman...

Please don't ever attribute such things to my Imam (as) without any source. May Allah guide you. Al ajal ya sahib az zaman...

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@IbnSina

@Ali al-Abdullah

Please google before making prejudgements and kindly bring your proofs from hadiths and fiqh also, regarding your personal arguments.

Read in farsi , the judgement made by Imam Ali regarding the condition is indicated in :

Source: Wassail shia, al maktab al Islamia , vol 17, page 576, hadith 5/ tahzeeb al ahkam, Dar al kotub al islamiyah. 

این باره قضاوت حضرت علی (ع) در مورد زنی است که به شریح قاضی مراجعه کرده و از وی درخواست قضاوت در مورد جنس خود را نموده بود که حضرت پس از بررسی های لازم حکم به ذکوریت وی دادند.

(وسایل الشیعه، المكتبه الاسلامیه، ج ۱۷، ص ۵۷۶، حدیث ۵ / تهذیب الاحكام، دارالكتب الاسلامیه

http://mehrkhane.com/fa/news/8209

Also approved by seyed Khomeini, seyed Khamenei, and seyed makarem Shirazi,as indicated in the link above.

Edited by certainclarity

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24 minutes ago, certainclarity said:

@IbnSina

@Ali al-Abdullah

Please google before making prejudgements and kindly bring your proofs from hadiths and fiqh also, regarding your personal arguments.

Read in farsi , the judgement made by Imam Ali regarding the condition is indicated in :

Source: Wassail shia, al maktab al Islamia , vol 17, page 576, hadith 5/ tahzeeb al ahkam, Dar al kotub al islamiyah. 

این باره قضاوت حضرت علی (ع) در مورد زنی است که به شریح قاضی مراجعه کرده و از وی درخواست قضاوت در مورد جنس خود را نموده بود که حضرت پس از بررسی های لازم حکم به ذکوریت وی دادند.

(وسایل الشیعه، المكتبه الاسلامیه، ج ۱۷، ص ۵۷۶، حدیث ۵ / تهذیب الاحكام، دارالكتب الاسلامیه

http://mehrkhane.com/fa/news/8209

Also approved by seyed Khomeini, seyed Khamenei, and seyed makarem Shirazi,as indicated in the link above.

What is the source? Wasail Shia or Maktab islamiya ? 

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3 hours ago, IbnSina said:

What is the source of what you claim? And what do you think the Imam(as) would say if "considering" yourself the opposite gender ment body mutilation which it does today. Have you guys forgotten that this is not our bodies to mutilate as we will?

 

Mutilation was not done. In the Hadith it mentioned, that imam Ali judged based on where did the person urinate from. From the male organ or female organ. When it was known that the person urinated from the male organ , the person was ordered to divorce the husband , and live like a man and he can get married. From that day onwards the person was considered a man.

For further information on the Hadith Google , preferably Farsi or Arabic books.

Alhamdulilah for ahlul bayt, we would have been destroyed without their wisdom.

 

8 minutes ago, Ali al-Abdullah said:

Can you be more specific please?

It is very clear brother, all the sources are in the Farsi link.

It is mentioned in Wasil shia , and other books too. I am not making it up. You can check the sources for yourself. Just google.

Edited by certainclarity

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2 minutes ago, certainclarity said:

Mutilation was not done. In the Hadith it mentioned,

 

It is very clear brother, all the sources are in the Farsi link.

It is mentioned in Wasil shia , and other books too. I am not making it up. You can check the sources for yourself. Just google.

Its not clear at all. When I search those names nothing comes up. 

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1 hour ago, Haydar Husayn said:

That may be your own personal definition, but out here in the rest of the world what you are referring to is a hermaphrodite. A transsexual is someone who believes that their biological gender doesn't match the gender they identify with in their mind (and this is again different from being a transvestite; i.e. dressing up like the opposite gender).

But yes, I agree. People should stay in school, and education is important.

 

Right. I didnt already know the difference between haemaphrodite and transvestite. That certainly taught me *thumbs up*

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33 minutes ago, certainclarity said:

Mutilation was not done. In the Hadith it mentioned, that imam Ali judged based on where did the person urinate from. From the male organ or female organ. When it was known that the person urinated from the male organ , the person was ordered to divorce the husband , and live like a man and he can get married. From that day onwards the person was considered a man.

For further information on the Hadith Google , preferably Farsi or Arabic books.

Alhamdulilah for ahlul bayt, we would have been destroyed without their wisdom.

 

It is very clear brother, all the sources are in the Farsi link.

It is mentioned in Wasil shia , and other books too. I am not making it up. You can check the sources for yourself. Just google.

I never mentioned a person who has two genders, as I said above I made a clear definition of what I consider a transgender person, did you not read?

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32 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

I never mentioned a person who has two genders, as I said above I made a clear definition of what I consider a transgender person, did you not read?

Sorry  if understood otherwise. Since you mentioned mutilation, I thought you were mentioning people with two genders.

If there are hormonal issues also which show up in excess facial hair, corrse voice, and the person identifies with the other sex alot more, surgeries are done, fully to  live a life of either gender and not end up being bisexual.This is not to be done out of sheer entertainment, and a deep medical history check is done before the procedure, if the person is applicable for such a change, in Iran.

These are permissble according to alot of Marjas .

This link explains more:

http://www.irjabs.com/files_site/paperlist/r_1748_131014223414.pdf

Edited by certainclarity

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9 hours ago, Ali al-Abdullah said:

How about the fact that those things are mentally ill ?

honestly I don't know , I never meet transgender in my life , so I don't know if they mental ill or really have some medical condition , I only read about them in news and wiki .

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9 minutes ago, sakura1994 said:

honestly I don't know , I never meet transgender in my life , so I don't know if they mental ill or really have some medical condition , I only read about them in news and wiki .

Of course they are mentally ill. Even many 'transgender' activists don't really deny that. Their argument is that even if it is a mental illness, what is the harm in allowing them to be what they want to be if it makes them feel better. By denying them the possibility 'treatment' (i.e. hormone therapy and surgery), they argue that they are condemned to a life of misery.

Of course, I don't agree with this argument, but it's what some of them say. Others just stick their heads in the sand and deny that it's a mental condition. For them the problem isn't with their mind, it's with their body. This is clearly insane. Some people have a condition that makes them think their limbs don't belong to them, and they want them cut off. I don't think anyone seriously doubts that is a mental condition.

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