Relationship between Imam Ali a.s and Malik Ashtar

[Fahad Sani]

 

خلاصة الاقوال في معرفة الرجال - Page 276-277, Author: Allamah al-Hilli.

http://www.uofislam.net/uofislam/view.php?type=c_book&id=1360

مالك الاشتر قدس الله روحه ورضي الله عنه، جليل القدر، عظيم المنزلة، كان اختصاصه بعلي (عليه السلام) اظهر من ان يخفى، وتأسف
(أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) بموته، وقال: لقد كان لي كما كنت لرسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله.

Ali a.s said, when Maalik al-Ashtar died: "He was to me as I was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w"

And Ali a.s was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w as Harun a.s was to Musa a.s. Therefore the relation of Malik Ashtar r.a with Imam Ali a.s was of the same nature as Ali a.s had with Rasul Allah s.a.w.w.

 

[ShiaMan14]

3 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

خلاصة الاقوال في معرفة الرجال - Page 276-277, Author: Allamah al-Hilli.

http://www.uofislam.net/uofislam/view.php?type=c_book&id=1360

مالك الاشتر قدس الله روحه ورضي الله عنه، جليل القدر، عظيم المنزلة، كان اختصاصه بعلي (عليه السلام) اظهر من ان يخفى، وتأسف
(أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) بموته، وقال: لقد كان لي كما كنت لرسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله.

Ali a.s said, when Maalik al-Ashtar died: "He was to me as I was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w"

And Ali a.s was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w as Harun a.s was to Musa a.s. Therefore the relation of Malik Ashtar r.a with Imam Ali a.s was of the same nature as Ali a.s had with Rasul Allah s.a.w.w.

 

And the point is?

[sidnaq]

2 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

And the point is?

that he is being a good muslim for sharing this with us.

[sidnaq]

3 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

خلاصة الاقوال في معرفة الرجال - Page 276-277, Author: Allamah al-Hilli.

http://www.uofislam.net/uofislam/view.php?type=c_book&id=1360

مالك الاشتر قدس الله روحه ورضي الله عنه، جليل القدر، عظيم المنزلة، كان اختصاصه بعلي (عليه السلام) اظهر من ان يخفى، وتأسف
(أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) بموته، وقال: لقد كان لي كما كنت لرسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله.

Ali a.s said, when Maalik al-Ashtar died: "He was to me as I was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w"

And Ali a.s was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w as Harun a.s was to Musa a.s. Therefore the relation of Malik Ashtar r.a with Imam Ali a.s was of the same nature as Ali a.s had with Rasul Allah s.a.w.w.

 

 

 

thank you very much for sharing this fahad

[Aabiss_Shakari]

6 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

خلاصة الاقوال في معرفة الرجال - Page 276-277, Author: Allamah al-Hilli.

http://www.uofislam.net/uofislam/view.php?type=c_book&id=1360

مالك الاشتر قدس الله روحه ورضي الله عنه، جليل القدر، عظيم المنزلة، كان اختصاصه بعلي (عليه السلام) اظهر من ان يخفى، وتأسف
(أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) بموته، وقال: لقد كان لي كما كنت لرسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله.

Ali a.s said, when Maalik al-Ashtar died: "He was to me as I was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w"

And Ali a.s was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w as Harun a.s was to Musa a.s. Therefore the relation of Malik Ashtar r.a with Imam Ali a.s was of the same nature as Ali a.s had with Rasul Allah s.a.w.w.

 

Can you not see the clear difference between the two statements? I believe you want to say that if hadith e Manzilat (Ali a.s You are to me as Auron a.s was to Muss a.s) is proof of Wilayat of Ali a.s then this saying of Ali a.s can be proof of Wilayat of Malik e Ashtar. But here Ali a.s did not use any example of Wilayah or Khilafah rather Ali a.s want to say as I was Nasir of Prophet pbuh similarly Malik e Ashtar is my Nasir.

[AbbaJaan]

17 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

خلاصة الاقوال في معرفة الرجال - Page 276-277, Author: Allamah al-Hilli.

http://www.uofislam.net/uofislam/view.php?type=c_book&id=1360

مالك الاشتر قدس الله روحه ورضي الله عنه، جليل القدر، عظيم المنزلة، كان اختصاصه بعلي (عليه السلام) اظهر من ان يخفى، وتأسف
(أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) بموته، وقال: لقد كان لي كما كنت لرسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله.

Ali a.s said, when Maalik al-Ashtar died: "He was to me as I was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w"

And Ali a.s was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w as Harun a.s was to Musa a.s. Therefore the relation of Malik Ashtar r.a with Imam Ali a.s was of the same nature as Ali a.s had with Rasul Allah s.a.w.w.

 

Good catch brother. Indeed this report helps us understand hadeeth Manzila in a better way. This shows that neither Hadeeth Manzila can be used as proof for the superiority of Ali over other believers nor can it be used as a proof for the permanent Caliphate of Ali after Muhammad(pbuh).  But yes as for the temporal caliph during lifetime of Prophet(pbuh) then yes, but that is not unqiue for Ali, many other Sahaba were also made temporary Caliphs during lifetime of Prophet(pbuh) in his absence.

[Fahad Sani]

14 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

And the point is?

 

Point is very obvious.

That as Harun a.s was to Musa a.s.

And as Ali a.s was to Prophet s.a.w.w.

Same was the position of Malik Ashtar r.a to Ali a.s.

i.e Hadith e Manzila.

 

11 hours ago, Aabiss_Shakari said:

Can you not see the clear difference between the two statements? I believe you want to say that if hadith e Manzilat (Ali a.s You are to me as Auron a.s was to Muss a.s) is proof of Wilayat of Ali a.s then this saying of Ali a.s can be proof of Wilayat of Malik e Ashtar. But here Ali a.s did not use any example of Wilayah or Khilafah rather Ali a.s want to say as I was Nasir of Prophet pbuh similarly Malik e Ashtar is my Nasir.

There are no any words of nasir (one who gives victory) etc in the narration. Its nothing but just your assumption.

Lets apply your interpretation.

As per twelver shias ALi a.s was the nasir of Prophet s.a.w.w at almost every occassion thats why they practice Nad e Ali or in short they invoke YA ALI MADAD in order to benefit from him.

As per Imam ALi a.s his nasir was malik ashtar (based on your interpretation). Then why dont twelver shias also say YA MALIK ASHTAR MADAD. Because he was nasir of Prophet's nasir.

The words of Imam Ali a.s are very clear that he is reffering to hadith e manzila (hadith of position).

Ali a.s said, when Maalik al-Ashtar died: "He was to me as I was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w"

Prophet s.a.w.w said to Imam Ali a.s, " ‘Your position to me is like the position of Harun to Musa, except that there will be no prophet after me.’"

Whatever is the meaning of hadith manzila, same also goes for Malik Ashtar as per words of Imam Ali a.s.

Below link may help you to understand the relation b/w Prophet s.a.w.w and Imam ALi a.s. Then it will become easier for you to apply the same b/w Malik Ashtar and Ali a.s.

http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/hadith-manzila/analyzing-meaning.html

[Muslim2010]

On 9/5/2016 at 1:05 PM, Fahad Sani said:

.Ali a.s said, when Maalik al-Ashtar died: "He was to me as I was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w"

As per sunni hadiths how imam Ali is related to the prophet?

What is the authenticity of the above saying in OP?

 

[Muslim2010]

How Malik Ashter was related to Imam Ali?

The following letetr 53, of nehjul balagah makes the clarity.

"Written1 for (Malik) al-Ashtar an-Nakha'i, when the position of Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr had become precarious, and Amir al-mu'minin had appointed al- Ashtar as the Governor of Egypt and the surrounding areas; it is the longest document and contains the greatest number of beautiful sayings.

In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful

This is what Allah's servant `Ali, Amir al-mu'minin, has ordered Malik ibn al-Harith al-Ashtar in his instrument (of appointment) for him when he made him Governor of Egypt for the collection of its revenues, fighting against its enemies, seeking the good of its people and making its cities prosperous.

He has ordered him to fear Allah, to prefer obedience to Him, and to follow what He has commanded in His Book (Qur'an) out of His obligatory and elective commands, without following which one cannot achieve virtue, nor (can one) be evil save by opposing them and ignoring them, and to help Allah the Glorified, with his heart, hand and tongue, because Allah whose name is Sublime takes the responsibility for helping him who helps Him, and for protecting him who gives Him support. He also orders him to break his heart off from passions, and to restrain it at the time of their increase, because the heart leads towards evil unless Allah has mercy.

I ask Allah through the vastness of His mercy and the greatness of His power of giving a good inclination that He may prompt me and you to advance a clear plea before Him and His creatures in a manner that may attract His pleasure along with handsome praise among the people, good effect in the country, an increase in prosperity and a hightening of honour; and that He may allow me and you to die a death of virtue and martyrdom. Surely, we have to return to Him. Peace be on the Messenger of Allah - may Allah shower His blessings and plentiful salutations on him and his pure and chaste descendants; and that is an end to the matter.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-53-order-malik-al-ashtar

[Hameedeh]

The statement in the OP about Malik Ashtar's relationship with Imam Ali AS is on an anti-Shia website. How could Malik Ashtar--who did not survive Imam Ali AS--become his successor? 

[Fahad Sani]

On 9/17/2016 at 4:44 PM, hameedeh said:

The statement in the OP about Malik Ashtar's relationship with Imam Ali AS is on an anti-Shia website. How could Malik Ashtar--who did not survive Imam Ali AS--become his successor? 

Assalam o Alaikum sister.

Where did in the OP I used word successor?? I had just shown one narration from a shia book, not from any anti shia website. You can see the link in OP.

Those words of Imam Ali a.s are same as mentioned in the famous hadith e manzila. Actually it explains true interpretation of hadith e manzila.

You are right "How could Malik Ashtar--who did not survive Imam Ali AS--become his successor?"

Likewise Harun a.s died before Musa a.s, so how can he be successor of Musa a.s??

It means hadith e manzila is not about successorship. Not at all.

Therefore the relation of Malik Ashtar r.a with Imam Ali a.s was of the same nature as Ali a.s had with Rasul Allah s.a.w.w and as Harun a.s had with Musa a.s.

Simple is that.

[Hameedeh]

4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Where did in the OP I used word successor?? I had just shown one narration from a shia book, not from any anti shia website. You can see the link in OP.

Salam. The link and the information you posted in the OP is on a blog giving dawah to Shia and says Malik Ashtar was 'an ambiguous character', naoozibillah. The blogger started a topic at an anti-shia website, with the same information. 

The anti-Shia website is claiming that Prophet Harun AS died so he couldn't be the successor of Prophet Musa AS and Malik Ashtar RA died so he couldn't be the successor of Imam Ali AS. Their point by saying these things is that they believe that Imam Ali AS is not the successor of the Prophet SA. Naoozibillah.

4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

It means hadith e manzila is not about successorship. Not at all.

As a Shia, you have some beliefs that do not match with the mainstream Shia beliefs. 

[gajarkahalva]

Er this guy doesnt sound shia at all......sounds like a brelwi

[elite]

On 05/09/2016 at 10:35 PM, Fahad Sani said:

 

خلاصة الاقوال في معرفة الرجال - Page 276-277, Author: Allamah al-Hilli.

http://www.uofislam.net/uofislam/view.php?type=c_book&id=1360

مالك الاشتر قدس الله روحه ورضي الله عنه، جليل القدر، عظيم المنزلة، كان اختصاصه بعلي (عليه السلام) اظهر من ان يخفى، وتأسف
(أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) بموته، وقال: لقد كان لي كما كنت لرسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله.

Ali a.s said, when Maalik al-Ashtar died: "He was to me as I was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w"

And Ali a.s was to Rasul Allah s.a.w.w as Harun a.s was to Musa a.s. Therefore the relation of Malik Ashtar r.a with Imam Ali a.s was of the same nature as Ali a.s had with Rasul Allah s.a.w.w.

 

The prefixed preposition lām is usually translated as "for"

Ali a.s said, when Maalik al-Ashtar died: "He was for me as I was for Rasul Allah (saw)"

I bring one example from quran to help you understand what is mean by the statement of Imam Ali(as).

إِنِّي لَكَ مِنَ النَّاصِحِينَ

Indeed I am for you of the sincere advisors(28:20)

“be for someone” means   advisor,helper,follower etc for someone.Now  how was Maalik al-Ashtar for Imam Ali(as) can be understood by studying his biography.

Where as in the Hadith Manzila words are total different.

أَنْتَ مِنِّي بِمَنْزِلَةِ هَارُونَ مِنْ مُوسَى إِلاَّ أَنَّهُ لاَ نَبِيَّ بَعْدِي ‏

You are to me in position of Harun with Musa except that there is no prophet after me.

Messenger of Allah was comparing only the “position(Manzilat) ”. Where as  word “Manzilat” is not there in the statement of Imam Ali(as).

Edited December 31, 2016 by elite

[Panzerwaffe]

Al ashtar was also a hero of riddah wars and futuhat under the first 2 caliph s ...is there any evidence of his association with Ali before the crisis in times of Uthman? 

We hear of al ashtar falling out with ummayyad governer over the lands of sawad not intricacies of imamate i.e he is not at the level as the inner core of Ali's followers 

And his disagreements with Ali over the mission of Jareer n Abdullah are well known 

 

That being said ashtar is a widely respected figure in Shia and sunni  but this is unlike all the old sahaba( who were appointed governors by Ali)  their association with Ali go way back to the hijrah and even had marriage links with some of their clans e.g sahl n Saad or abu ayyub were appointeed by Ali as the very vital position of governer of medina

Ashtar was also critical of Ali's appointment of ibn Abbas if we believe some historical reports 

Ashtar was the third appointee of Egypt sent to salvage a disaster started by last governor hardly the job for a successor 

And lastly these remarks are an eulogy said to elders of nakhai upon martyrdom of ashtar so let's keep them in context.They cannot be used as part of succession debates 

Edited December 31, 2016 by Panzerwaffe