Four daughters of Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.W

[Fahad Sani]

 

Here are the proofs from twelver shia books. The-four-daughters.pdf

 

[ShiaMan14]

So what if the Prophet had 4 daughters? Does it change the status of Fatima in any way?

[ahlussunnah]

13 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

So what if the Prophet had 4 daughters? Does it change the status of Fatima in any way?

Apparently op is regarding those shia who deny the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) had four daughters from sayyida khadija (Ra). So if he married his daughters to Uthman (Ra) then that is a real problem for shias. Why a prophet would marry his daughters to a disbeliever in normal situation? This is the point.

[ShiaMan14]

1 hour ago, ahlussunnah said:

Apparently op is regarding those shia who deny the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) had four daughters from sayyida khadija (Ra). So if he married his daughters to Uthman (Ra) then that is a real problem for shias. Why a prophet would marry his daughters to a disbeliever in normal situation? This is the point.

Uthman was disbeliever? During the life of the Prophet?

[submitter71]

36 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Uthman was disbeliever? During the life of the Prophet?

It at least show that Uthman (ra) was a great and trustworthy man when the Prophet salalahu alaihi wa salam was alive. Will you reject that as well?

I hope you are not someone who believes that being given the hand of the daughter of the Prophet salalahu alaihi wa salam is only a merit for Ali (as) and not for anyone else. 

[Megatron]

Makes sense.

The Prophet married Fatima to someone he trusted who could love his daughter unconditionally. No doubt the Prophet would've done the same for the rest of his daughters. Even if you take the belief they were his step-daughters there is no doubt he wasn't going to marry them to anyone who wasn't upright, and reliable. That would've been disgracing the memory, and the legacy of his first wife, and their mother.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Megatron

[submitter71]

Good point about disgracing their mother's legacy. 

[Haydar Husayn]

I accept that the Prophet had four daughters, and that two of them were married to Uthman. I also think that he was viewed as trustworthy during the lifetime of the Prophet (s). But unlike you guys, I don't believed that the tests of this world ended for the Prophet's companions as soon as he died, and that they were all guaranteed paradise. It was still possible for them to go wrong, and many of them did go wrong, in a big way.

I know that some Shias, foolishly in my view, try to portray certain companions as pure evil from day one, and this then gives you an easy target to attack. But it really doesn't address the core issue for us, which is their actions after the death of the Prophet (and arguably even just before).

[ShiaMan14]

1 hour ago, submitter71 said:

It at least show that Uthman (ra) was a great and trustworthy man when the Prophet salalahu alaihi wa salam was alive. Will you reject that as well?

Arent there reports that Caliph Uthman beat the Prophet's daughter(s)? So I dont know about great...

1 hour ago, submitter71 said:

I hope you are not someone who believes that being given the hand of the daughter of the Prophet salalahu alaihi wa salam is only a merit for Ali (as) and not for anyone else. 

Being given the hand of the Chief of the Women in Paradise is a only a merit for Ali and not anyone else. As you may well know, every single sahaba wanted the honor of being married to Sayeda Fatima Zehra. You will not find such ahadith about the other alleged daughters of the Prophet.

54 minutes ago, Megatron said:

Makes sense.

The Prophet married Fatima to someone he trusted who could love his daughter unconditionally. No doubt the Prophet would've done the same for the rest of his daughters. Even if you take the belief they were his step-daughters there is no doubt he wasn't going to marry them to anyone who wasn't upright, and reliable. That would've been disgracing the memory, and the legacy of his first wife, and their mother.

Ask any shia and we will tell you we have very little problem with Caliph Uthman during the lifetime of the Prophet because he really was a nobody. Other than being sent as a negotiator during the Hudaibiya incident, there is very little of note about him. He excused himself from battles (multiple times I believe) and if he did participate in any, he didnt accomplish much in them.

The second question that comes to mind is we find a plethora of hadith in praise of Fatima but very little about the other daughters? Why is that? Did marrying Ali raise Fatima's status or did marrying Uthman lower the status of those daughters? 

The House of Cards comes crumpling down very quickly if you go slightly deeper into history. 

I hope and pray you are not falling victims to Bani Ummaya propaganda.

[janbiya]

i don't get it why some shia are trying so hard to deny Ali ra married off his daughter to umar ra? Authentic shia reports confirm this marriage took place with "by force" excuse which is a desperate really. If shia believe Rasulullah saaw married so called disbelievers, why you can't accept umm kulthum bint ali ra marry so called disbeliever? Do you respect ali ra progeny more than Rasulullah saaw? Why do you reject your own authentic report?

[Megatron]

On 06/09/2016 at 11:08 PM, shiaman14 said:

Arent there reports that Caliph Uthman beat the Prophet's daughter(s)? So I dont know about great...

Being given the hand of the Chief of the Women in Paradise is a only a merit for Ali and not anyone else. As you may well know, every single sahaba wanted the honor of being married to Sayeda Fatima Zehra. You will not find such ahadith about the other alleged daughters of the Prophet.

Ask any shia and we will tell you we have very little problem with Caliph Uthman during the lifetime of the Prophet because he really was a nobody. Other than being sent as a negotiator during the Hudaibiya incident, there is very little of note about him. He excused himself from battles (multiple times I believe) and if he did participate in any, he didnt accomplish much in them.

The second question that comes to mind is we find a plethora of hadith in praise of Fatima but very little about the other daughters? Why is that? Did marrying Ali raise Fatima's status or did marrying Uthman lower the status of those daughters? 

The House of Cards comes crumpling down very quickly if you go slightly deeper into history. 

I hope and pray you are not falling victims to Bani Ummaya propaganda.

Hi.

Wow, your post screams ignorance. Uthman's nobility is justified by sound reports not Ummaya propaganda.

He was a nobody? The Prophet (SAW) chose him to marry not one, but two of his daughters. By extension you're questioning, and undermining the very judgement of the Prophet (SAW) himself. Even if (big IF) he did something of the sort it still doesn't deter the fact the Prophet (SAW) saw some goodness in Uthman. Something Shias, I'm afraid are too blind to see due to their crunched hatred that poisons your hearts.

If you mean in your sources then, I'm not surprised. However, in our collection of literature there are many authentic fad'ail narrations on Uthman, I can assure you. Do some diggin' research, and you won't go cold.

What else do you expect to achieve on the battle field? Fish n' Chips? His withdrawing from Uhud is forgiven in the Qur'an, and every battle he attended after that be it Khandaq, Fateh Makkah, Hunayn etc. proves he had the nation's interest heart otherwise why participate? He was quite wealthy, and could've chilled at home, but he didn't. Anyone who attended any expedition with the Prophet (SAW) shows he had courageous mettle inspired by Allah. Let's not forget his gracious sponsoring of Tabuk.

How do you draw a connection between little being known about the other daughters, and Uthman? There is much less mentioned about Khadijah, so by your logic her character must also be brought into disrepute, right? The Qur'an confirms there were more at least 3 daughters, and sound historical reports confirm two of them were married to Uthman. That in itself is testimony to Uthman's character. If one is unable to swallow simple rational then such a person needs to look in the mirror.

Uthman ibn Affan is one of the stalwarts of our tradition.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Megatron

[ShiaMan14]

28 minutes ago, Megatron said:

Wow, your post screams ignorance. Uthman's nobility is justified by sound reports not Ummaya propaganda.

Sound reports? Such as? Can we get examples of his nobility? I guess we will ignore the nepotism and persecution of the sahaba under his rule while you dig up his virtues.

30 minutes ago, Megatron said:

He was a nobody? The Prophet (SAW) chose him to marry not one, but two of his daughters. By extension you're questioning, and undermining the very judgement of the Prophet (SAW) himself. Even if (big IF) he did something of the sort it still doesn't deter the fact the Prophet (SAW) saw some goodness in Uthman. Something Shias, I'm afraid are too blind to see due to their crunched hatred that poisons your hearts.

Did you miss my comment that shias do not have a problem with Caliph Uthman during the lifetime of the Prophet? Also, you do know that I have nothing personal against Uthman. When I say he was a nobody, I simply mean he accomplished little of note during the Prophethood of Muhammad (saw).

34 minutes ago, Megatron said:

If you mean in your sources then, I'm not surprised. However, in our collection of literature there are many authentic fad'ail narrations on Uthman, I can assure you. Do some diggin' research, and you won't go cold.

I mean overall. Can you please list 5-10 things he accomplished during the Prophethood of Muhamamd (saw). Actual things he did.

34 minutes ago, Megatron said:

What else do you expect to achieve on the battle field? Fish n' Chips? His withdrawing from Uhud is forgiven in the Qur'an, and every battle he attended after that be it Khandaq, Fateh Makkah, Hunayn etc. proves he had the nation's interest heart otherwise why participate? He was quite wealthy, and could've chilled at home, but he didn't. Anyone who attended any expedition with the Prophet (SAW) shows he had courageous mettle inspired by Allah. Let's not forget his gracious sponsoring of Tabuk.

Let's say you remove Uthman from the history of Islam or say he was not there - doesn't make an iota of difference to Islam does it?

36 minutes ago, Megatron said:

How do you draw a connection between little being known about the other daughters, and Uthman? There is much less mentioned about Khadijah, so by your logic her character must also be brought into disrepute, right? The Qur'an confirms there were more at least 3 daughters, and sound historical reports confirm two of them were married to Uthman. That in itself is testimony to Uthman's character. If one is unable to swallow simple rational then such a person needs to look in the mirror.

Lol. There is a ton of information available about Hz Khadijah. First person to accept Islam; while riff-raffs are called ghani, Khadijah was the first to spend all her wealth of Islam; supported the Prophet in the toughest of times, favorite wife, etc. I could on and on and on. I am not bring the other daughters of the Prophet into disrepute. I am just asking if marrying Ali made Fatima Chief of Women of Paradise or if marrying Uthman downgraded the other 2 daughters from being chiefs or Co-Chiefs? Surely the Prophet would not play favorites with his daughters and Paradise is big enough for Co-Chiefs. For example, Hasan and Husain are both Chiefs of Paradise. Am I being too irrational?

41 minutes ago, Megatron said:

Uthman ibn Affan is one of the stalwarts of our tradition.

I am sorry if I offended you brother but how can we have a candid discussion when I am not being allowed to ask valid and logical questions.

20 hours ago, janbiya said:

i don't get it why some shia are trying so hard to deny Ali ra married off his daughter to umar ra? Authentic shia reports confirm this marriage took place with "by force" excuse which is a desperate really. If shia believe Rasulullah saaw married so called disbelievers, why you can't accept umm kulthum bint ali ra marry so called disbeliever? Do you respect ali ra progeny more than Rasulullah saaw? Why do you reject your own authentic report?

Wait, aren't we talking about Caliph Uthman's marriages to the Prophet's daughters?

[janbiya]

16 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Wait, aren't we talking about Caliph Uthman's marriages to the Prophet's daughters?

I mentioned umm kulthum bint ali marriage to umar, because it's basically the same scenario. Some shia try to deny ali ra married off his daughter because shia believe umar ra was disbelievers, same goes with uthman case when it comes to marriage to rasulullah saaw daughters

[Megatron]

Hi.

I won't spoon-feed you. If you perform a simple Google search with these words "Virtues of Uthman" you'll be presented with enough sources that will quote a swarm of authentic narrations of the Prophet (SAW) praising Uthman. Let's focus on his lifetime during the Prophet's (SAW) era. I know you guys lurve to fast-forward 20-30 years, and bring up the entire fitna because that's the only real ammunition you have to go by. I believe I mentioned one of his major accolades in my last post, and as result the Prophet (SAW) said to the nearest meaning no matter what happens from here on in Uthman has earned Jannah.

Let's stop and think about that for a moment shall we. This "nobody" has been given clearance into Jannah by the very best of creation. Surely, whatever he did to earn that can't be termed as "little" or minor" as you keep implying. That is irrationality at it's worse dude. Plus when you find the narration, please don't dismiss it that it's weak unless you can academically prove that it is because if you use our narrations to confirm the virtues of the Prophet's (SAW) family then likewise you have to accept the very same source that, confirms the virtues of other people too even if you have ill-feelings inclined towards them.

I didn't miss it, but I had a hunch you weren't being sarastict. Strangely, and ironically I believe you're the one missing a very fundamental point here. If the Prophet (SAW) allowed, and chose Uthman not once, but twice to marry his daughters is that in itself at least somewhat of an achievement? As, I said earlier, and I'll repeat myself even if you believe Ruqayah, and Umm Kulthum were not his biological daughters, but step-daughters surely the Prophet (SAW) still would've only and exclusively hand-picked the most suitable of candidates? What do you think? Did Khadijah not leave them in his (SAW) care?

iota of difference? Wow, this keeps getting better, and better. Have you forgotten Hudabiyya? Did the Prophet (SAW) not use his own hand to give the pledge of allegiance to himself on behalf of Uthman? The Prophet (SAW) was about to go war with the Quriah when the news of Uthman's alleged death had reached him (SAW). Why would the Prophet (SAW) put the lives of 1400 men who're hardly equipped for battle let alone dressed to avenge the death of a "nobody"?

It's quite staggering how Shias struggle with their conscious to give Uthman even a spec of credibility. If you're wise enough then Insh'Allah you'll follow what I'm saying.

I think you mis-understood what I was trying to get at. Everyone, and I myself am aware of Khadijah's great service for Islam during the Makkah phase, but in the grand scheme of things there is very little narrated about her compared to the other great personalities. However, that doesn't undermine the steely fact that she is among the greatest of women, and the favourite wife of the Prophet (SAW) - that's my point. The same attitude is applied to the other daughters that although not is much narrated about them, but authentically we know of their existence, their relation to the Prophet (SAW), and handful of their virtues have reached us therefore they have a lofty status. Why, so little about them have been narrated to us Allah knows best, but if you think about it the Seerah is pocket-full of narrations of the Madinah phase. The Madinah phase is narrated to us in story-format of every year unlike Makkah where we have random incidents here-and-there not knowing when they took place. This is because there were very companions around later who had experienced that stage of Islam to share it. Who's observing what's going on inside the Prophet's (SAW) house in Makkah to tell us 20-30 years later?

Edited September 8, 2016 by Megatron

[ShiaMan14]

2 hours ago, janbiya said:

I mentioned umm kulthum bint ali marriage to umar, because it's basically the same scenario. Some shia try to deny ali ra married off his daughter because shia believe umar ra was disbelievers, same goes with uthman case when it comes to marriage to rasulullah saaw daughters

But I have neither confirmed nor denied the Prophet's daughters to Uthman. I just asked if marrying Uthman somehow lowered their status?

[janbiya]

3 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

But I have neither confirmed nor denied the Prophet's daughters to Uthman. I just asked if marrying Uthman somehow lowered their status?

i wasn't even referring to you, but shia in general. It was a comment for ahlussunah post. Maybe i should've quoted that

[ShiaMan14]

4 minutes ago, janbiya said:

i wasn't even referring to you, but shia in general. It was a comment for ahlussunah post. Maybe i should've quoted that

And yet my question still stands. Let's say the Prophet had 4 daughters, what was so special about Fatima? All else being equal, it must have been who she was married to.

[janbiya]

1 minute ago, shiaman14 said:

And yet my question still stands. Let's say the Prophet had 4 daughters, what was so special about Fatima? All else being equal, it must have been who she was married to.

no sunni belief fatima ra was not special, this is more of a question for shias who try to deny 2 of Rasulullah saaw daughters were not his. Are you one of them?

[ShiaMan14]

16 minutes ago, janbiya said:

no sunni belief fatima ra was not special, this is more of a question for shias who try to deny 2 of Rasulullah saaw daughters were not his. Are you one of them?

So she is not the Chief of Women of Paradise? She is not part of tatheer? She is not the only woman in Mubahila?

But a childless woman who believed in adult-male breastfeeding is special?

Sums up sunni Islam just about right.

Edited September 8, 2016 by shiaman14

[janbiya]

7 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

So she is not the Chief of Women of Paradise? She is not part of tatheer? She is not the only woman in Mubahila?

But a childless woman who believed in adult-male breastfeeding is special?

Sums up sunni Islam just about right.

no need to derail the discussion. Do you belief umm kulthum ra & ruqayya ra were Rasulullah saaw daughters or you "love" ahlulbayt so much that you deny them due to your hate for uthman ra?

[submitter71]

On 9/7/2016 at 1:02 AM, Haydar Husayn said:

I accept that the Prophet had four daughters, and that two of them were married to Uthman. I also think that he was viewed as trustworthy during the lifetime of the Prophet (s). But unlike you guys, I don't believed that the tests of this world ended for the Prophet's companions as soon as he died, and that they were all guaranteed paradise. It was still possible for them to go wrong, and many of them did go wrong, in a big way.

I know that some Shias, foolishly in my view, try to portray certain companions as pure evil from day one, and this then gives you an easy target to attack. But it really doesn't address the core issue for us, which is their actions after the death of the Prophet (and arguably even just before).

This is a much more reasonable point of view.

What happened to Uthman (ra) then? Did he become so power hungry that he chose a man from Bani Taim instead of a man from Bani Hashim as his leader? 

It is not my intention to change the subject of the thread, but I think it is linked to the intention of the original poster. 

[ShiaMan14]

18 hours ago, janbiya said:

no need to derail the discussion. Do you belief umm kulthum ra & ruqayya ra were Rasulullah saaw daughters or you "love" ahlulbayt so much that you deny them due to your hate for uthman ra?

How am I derailing the topic? I am trying to understand if the Prophet had other daughters, were they as special as Fatima?

[ShiaMan14]

21 hours ago, Megatron said:

Hi.

I won't spoon-feed you. If you perform a simple Google search with these words "Virtues of Uthman" you'll be presented with enough sources that will quote a swarm of authentic narrations of the Prophet (SAW) praising Uthman. Let's focus on his lifetime during the Prophet's (SAW) era. I know you guys lurve to fast-forward 20-30 years, and bring up the entire fitna because that's the only real ammunition you have to go by. I believe I mentioned one of his major accolades in my last post, and as result the Prophet (SAW) said to the nearest meaning no matter what happens from here on in Uthman has earned Jannah.

So I tried to look up accomplishments of Caliph Uthman during the lifetime of the Prophet. I could not really find anything other than being sent into Mecca as a negotiator and financing an battle. Yes, there are 'swarms' of narrations praising Caliph Uthman but I am asking for reasons behind the praise. What did he do that was so extraordinary? Keep in mind he was sent to Mecca as a negotiator because he was an expert at negotiations. He just happened to have killed the least (0 probably) kuffars of Mecca and so they were not going to be hostile to him. So I am not too sure if that constitutes as an accomplishment.

21 hours ago, Megatron said:

Let's stop and think about that for a moment shall we. This "nobody" has been given clearance into Jannah by the very best of creation. Surely, whatever he did to earn that can't be termed as "little" or minor" as you keep implying. That is irrationality at it's worse dude. Plus when you find the narration, please don't dismiss it that it's weak unless you can academically prove that it is because if you use our narrations to confirm the virtues of the Prophet's (SAW) family then likewise you have to accept the very same source that, confirms the virtues of other people too even if you have ill-feelings inclined towards them.

Is this about the 10 guaranteed jannah? Dont believe it one bit.

21 hours ago, Megatron said:

I didn't miss it, but I had a hunch you weren't being sarastict. Strangely, and ironically I believe you're the one missing a very fundamental point here. If the Prophet (SAW) allowed, and chose Uthman not once, but twice to marry his daughters is that in itself at least somewhat of an achievement? As, I said earlier, and I'll repeat myself even if you believe Ruqayah, and Umm Kulthum were not his biological daughters, but step-daughters surely the Prophet (SAW) still would've only and exclusively hand-picked the most suitable of candidates? What do you think? Did Khadijah not leave them in his (SAW) care?

That is the whole discussion. Did these women exist and if so who were they? I am asking for proof without doubt.

21 hours ago, Megatron said:

iota of difference? Wow, this keeps getting better, and better. Have you forgotten Hudabiyya? Did the Prophet (SAW) not use his own hand to give the pledge of allegiance to himself on behalf of Uthman? The Prophet (SAW) was about to go war with the Quriah when the news of Uthman's alleged death had reached him (SAW). Why would the Prophet (SAW) put the lives of 1400 men who're hardly equipped for battle let alone dressed to avenge the death of a "nobody"?

As I said, Caliph Uthman was sent because of his good relations with the Quraish. Regardless of who was sent, the Prophet would have gone to war since killing a negotiator is an act of war.

21 hours ago, Megatron said:

I think you mis-understood what I was trying to get at. Everyone, and I myself am aware of Khadijah's great service for Islam during the Makkah phase, but in the grand scheme of things there is very little narrated about her compared to the other great personalities. However, that doesn't undermine the steely fact that she is among the greatest of women, and the favourite wife of the Prophet (SAW) - that's my point. The same attitude is applied to the other daughters that although not is much narrated about them, but authentically we know of their existence, their relation to the Prophet (SAW), and handful of their virtues have reached us therefore they have a lofty status. Why, so little about them have been narrated to us Allah knows best, but if you think about it the Seerah is pocket-full of narrations of the Madinah phase. The Madinah phase is narrated to us in story-format of every year unlike Makkah where we have random incidents here-and-there not knowing when they took place. This is because there were very companions around later who had experienced that stage of Islam to share it. Who's observing what's going on inside the Prophet's (SAW) house in Makkah to tell us 20-30 years later?

In the grand scheme, there are enough narrations about her. Its a sad fact that people focus on wives such as Aisha and Hafsa who were more of a nuisance to the Prophet (Surah Tahrim) than a beloved wife.

Brother - I have nothing personal against Caliph Uthman. But if you or someone comes and says that he was married to 2 of Prophet's daughters, then I should be entitled to ask questions about this:

1) Where are the narrations of praising these daughters the way Fatima has been praised?
2) Why were these daughters not in Mubahila?
3) Did these daughters have any children with Caliph Uthman? If so, who?
4) Did the Prophet love these children as much as he loved Hasan and Hussain? If so, where is this stated? If not, why not?

I could go on and on. I encourage you and others to not merely accept narrations blindly but do thorough investigations before accepting them.
 

[Megatron]

Hi,

I think we need to be clear about what we're discussing here. I'm simply trying to demonstrate that Uthman was indeed someone of noteworthy, and not merely nobody. Uthman was someone of staunch piety, and the Prophet (SAW) recognised that nobility, and amplified it in ways that benefited the both of them.

Accomplishments that benefits the masses is isn't the only/always an indicator to determine whether someone has reached the height of greatness. Someone's character can go along way defining who he really is. Our Prophet (SAW) is/was renowned for his character, and Allah has made reference to this in the Qur'an in various places. Likewise, although not on a Prophetic level, Uthman had great character also. Allah loves those who're humble, and down to Earth that in itself is an accomplishment.

Uthman was generally well-known for three things:

1) His self effacement nature.

2) Tirelessly being charitable.

3) His devotion to the Qur'an.

You'll find many narrations of fad'hail pertaining to any of these 3 characteristics. Each time, I've provided an incident, and elaborated how it's a fad'hail for Uthman you've watered it down with your own lopsided interpretation. You ask a very odd question. You accept there are a swarm of narrations praising Uthman, but you don't understand the reason behind the praise, say what? You do realise the praise is coming from the Prophet (SAW) himself assuming we're talking about narrations from our literature.

- The Prophet (SAW) said Uthman was a man of bashfulness because he was overly sensitive (more than others) about every exposing his aura the slight even in the face of death, and in general

- The Prophet (SAW) promised him Jannah because he mass funded from his own pocket the expedition of Tabuk therefore made it possible for thousands of companions to participate

- The Prophet (SAW) promised him Jannah after the hijrah when he purchased the well in Madinah from the Jews because it fed the Muslims from Makkah who had settled in Madinah - this no doubt includes family members of the Prophet (SAW)

- The Prophet (SAW) praised him for purchasing the land in Madinah, and material because they ended up constructing one of the very first Masjids in Islamf

- The ultimate praise by the Prophet (SAW) for Uthman was his love of the Qur'an because he just loved it pure and simple., this is evident in the very last moment of his life as he was reading the Qur'an before he passed away, so he went out in the Qur'anic style, Alhamdulillah

I hope I've made it a lil' easy for you to grasp why such praises were laid on Uthman, although personally I though tit was self explanatory to draw the connections between the praises and reasons especially if you're aware of the Prophet's (SAW) biography. Perhaps you need to study the entire Seerah of the Prophet (SAW), particularly the Madinah phase. Do any such books exists in the Shia libraries?

Regarding the Prophet's (SAW) other daughters, well if you don't believe they exist then we might as well just drop this part of the discussion. One of the staff members on this forum acknowledged the Prophet (SAW) had 4 daughters, and after a bit of searching on the forum many others users do so too. Furthermore even some of your classical scholars admitted the Prophet (SAW) had more than 1 daughter at least. I can assure you of that. So, you're pursuit for evidence of their existence should began on this forum by asking your bredrins. Now, there's homework for ya'. Having said that, I'm afraid it still doesn't get you out of hotseat, so, I'll ask you again, but a differently this time. Hypothetically let's say they weren't his daughters, but if the Prophet (SAW) was arranging a marriage between a Muslimah he knows with a fellow companion then surely that means the Prophet (SAW) in the purest terms had seen some goodness in the potential to-be husband? Yayy aur Nahi?

You're right there is very little we know about the other daughters of the Prophet (SAW), but there is just enough to confirm their names, and their relationship to the Prophet (SAW. That's sufficient to know they were also very special being the children of the best of creation even if we very little details regarding their lives. Your list of questions don't prove/disapprove the character of Uthman, so it's not really relevant to the discussion. With that said.

- All of the daughters by the time Mubahila came around they had all left this world

- Yes, Uthman had one son with Ruqayah called Abdullah, and Zainab had one son and daughter with Abul ‘As ibn Rabi’.

- Allah knows best.

Reference for the other grandchildren of the Prophet (SAW), and details of their passing, please visit these links for the sources you can refer to.

http://hadithanswers.com/did-sayyiduna-uthman-radiyallahu-anhu-marry-sayyidah-ruqayyah-radiyallahu-anha/

http://hadithanswers.com/the-son-of-sayyidah-ruqayyah-radiyallahuanha/

http://hadithanswers.com/how-many-children-did-sayyidatuna-zaynab-radiyallahu-anha-have/

Finally, yes, I agree with you no matter who was sent the Prophet (SAW) would've reacted with the call of enforcing jihad upon them. However, once more you've overlooked a very significant point. The Prophet (SAW) addressed the entire contingent, and pledged Uthman's allegiance to the cause by using both hands. Why would the Prophet (SAW) do that on behalf of a nobody? A nobody who suddenly had just passed away too. It's because Uthman as a person who was beloved to him, and wanted to make sure that when Allah sends revelation complimenting such loyalty that Uthman would also be apart of this special moment in our tradition. Even if you disagree with me surely it has to be a positive gesture, right? 

You claim you got nothing personal against him, but some of your narrow-minded comments paint a different feeling. I'd approach this with an open-mind, and Insh'Allah you'll come to realise the same.

Our scholars during the time of the Salaf did pretty much of that, so we'd have less of a challenging burden. I have the utmost trust, and faith in their works since they dedicated their lives for this deen to prosper, and to reach further generations.

 

Edited September 10, 2016 by Megatron

[ShiaMan14]

3 hours ago, Megatron said:

Uthman was generally well-known for three things:

1) His self effacement nature.

2) Tirelessly being charitable.

3) His devotion to the Qur'an.

This can be said about so many sahaba though. How does it distinguish him?

3 hours ago, Megatron said:

You'll find many narrations of fad'hail pertaining to any of these 3 characteristics. Each time, I've provided an incident, and elaborated how it's a fad'hail for Uthman you've watered it down with your own lopsided interpretation. You ask a very odd question. You accept there are a swarm of narrations praising Uthman, but you don't understand the reason behind the praise, say what? You do realise the praise is coming from the Prophet (SAW) himself assuming we're talking about narrations from our literature.

Let's say I come to you and say the Prophet praised Ali's heroics. You will have the right to ask how come or what for. Then I will delve into the heroics in Badr, Uhud, Khandaq, Khybar, etc. Similarly, my sunni brethren say there are a lot of praises for Caliph Uthman so I should have the right to ask what for? Also, while I realize the praise is alluded to the Prophet, fact of the matter is a lot of Sunni history is Bani Ummayya propaganda so my questions become all the more important to distinguish truth from propaganda.

3 hours ago, Megatron said:

I hope I've made it a lil' easy for you to grasp why such praises were laid on Uthman, although personally I though tit was self explanatory to draw the connections between the praises and reasons especially if you're aware of the Prophet's (SAW) biography. Perhaps you need to study the entire Seerah of the Prophet (SAW), particularly the Madinah phase. Do any such books exists in the Shia libraries?

 

I am well aware of the Prophet's biography but it never hurts to re-read it. And I prefer to take his biography from Shia sources because Sunni sources say the Prophet was put under a magic spell and thought he had intimate relations with all 9 wives in 1 night so I urge you to read Shia biographies of the Prophet.

3 hours ago, Megatron said:

Regarding the Prophet's (SAW) other daughters, well if you don't believe they exist then we might as well just drop this part of the discussion. One of the staff members on this forum acknowledged the Prophet (SAW) had 4 daughters, and after a bit of searching on the forum many others users do so too. Furthermore even some of your classical scholars admitted the Prophet (SAW) had more than 1 daughter at least. I can assure you of that. So, you're pursuit for evidence of their existence should began on this forum by asking your bredrins. Now, there's homework for ya'. Having said that, I'm afraid it still doesn't get you out of hotseat, so, I'll ask you again, but a differently this time. Hypothetically let's say they weren't his daughters, but if the Prophet (SAW) was arranging a marriage between a Muslimah he knows with a fellow companion then surely that means the Prophet (SAW) in the purest terms had seen some goodness in the potential to-be husband? Yayy aur Nahi?

Isnt the whole purpose of this post is to discuss if the Prophet had more than 1 daughter and if so discuss more about them. By God, they deserve to be acknowledged and it would be a shame on all Muslims if they have been ignored much like their pure mother. Lots of people (shia and sunni) have opinions on their existence including classical and modern shia/sunni scholars. The primary question is whether they existed, the secondary question(s) is about their lives including marriage(s) and offsprings.

Now for the hotseat question (which I thought I answered): Prophet's criteria for marriage for his daughters or any Muslimah would have been a) muslim b) trustworthy. Caliph Uthman was both so no problem at all. I think you are confusing noteworthy and trustworthy. If you re-read the entire thread, I have neither denied the existence of the daughters nor denied their marriage to Caliph Uthman. I am however allowed to question these so called facts.

 

3 hours ago, Megatron said:

With that said.

- All of the daughters by the time Mubahila came around they had all left this world

- Yes, Uthman had one son with Ruqayah called Abdullah, and Zainab had one son and daughter with Abul ‘As ibn Rabi’.

- Allah knows best.

Note: i have not said anything about the character of Caliph Uthman. Thank you for answering Q2, 3. I still need to know why we do not have narrations about the praises of other daughters of the Prophet and why the sons and daughters of Caliph Uthman with the Prophet's daughters were not in Mubahila. Furthermore, what was their relationship like with the Prophet. Why was he closer to Hasan and Hussian then these grandchildren?

Most theories have to be proven to be accepted and this should be no different.

 

3 hours ago, Megatron said:

Finally, yes, I agree with you no matter who was sent the Prophet (SAW) would've reacted with the call of enforcing jihad upon them. However, once more you've overlooked a very significant point. The Prophet (SAW) addressed the entire contingent, and pledged Uthman's allegiance to the cause by using both hands. Why would the Prophet (SAW) do that on behalf of a nobody? A nobody who suddenly had just passed away too. It's because Uthman as a person who was beloved to him, and wanted to make sure that when Allah sends revelation complimenting such loyalty that Uthman would also be apart of this special moment in our tradition. Even if you disagree with me surely it has to be a positive gesture, right? 

But he would have done that for anyone who would have gone into Mecca. And we have already discussed the reason for selecting Uthman. He was a no show at Badr, ran away in Uhud, did not fight in Khandaq, could not win the fort of Khaybar. He had done nothing to anyone of the kuffar of Mecca and hence was the logical choice. 

3 hours ago, Megatron said:

You claim you got nothing personal against him, but some of your narrow-minded comments paint a different feeling. I'd approach this with an open-mind, and Insh'Allah you'll come to realise the same.

Our scholars during the time of the Salaf did pretty much of that, so we'd have less of a challenging burden. I have the utmost trust, and faith in their works since they dedicated their lives for this deen to prosper, and to reach further generations.

I stand behind my comments as I think they are a fair reflection of history and not based on biased Bani Ummayya propaganda which you are refering to as the Salaf.

Once again, I am not trying to insult Caliph Uthman. All I have said is that he was not a noteworthy sahaba but then I say anyone who fled Uhud is not noteworthy.

[Megatron]

Hi.

It is healthy that you think he was trustworthy, but in addition you've referred to him as a "nobody", and claimed if he hadn't exited Islam still would've blossomed. Since then, I decided to challenge your perception of Uthman, and prove that he was indeed much better than that. The main discussion of this thread regarding the other daughters is all connected together. Uthman was a very special individual not just on his own right, and a beloved companion/son-in law of the Prophet (SAW) x2.

It distinguishes him because he had excelled in those qualifies collectively more than anyone else hence why the Prophet (SAW) admired, respected and loved him very much as per the plethora of authentic narrations.

I'm not rejecting the questions you're bringing forward, but it's the type of questions you're posing that would suggest that you already have this preconceived view-point of Uthman, and no Hadith no matter how explicit the praise even if it's coming from the Prophet (SAW) will change that. It's our belief by unanimous consensus the reason there was a massive uproar at Hudabiiyah wasn't just because a random or nobody spokesman/ambassador was allegedly killed, but it was quality blood that was spilled. This carries more weight considering ibn Umar narrates the Hadith since he was there in defense/honour of Uthman. Last time I checked he wasn't A-policital his entire life, and wasn't anti/pro Banu Ummayah. If you genuinely believe a certain narration is infested with Banu Ummayah germs then you need to explain, and justify how so academically. Binning it because it's not compatible with your trained-image of Uthman is unconditional bias. That's not a very pragmatic approach.

To clarify he was not at Badr because he was instructed by the Prophet (SAW) to carry for his daughter, and he attended ever other expedition after that. Yes, at Uhud he fled like the others did, but Allah forgave them, so that can't be used as a critique when Allah has pardoned them, and with the added fact he's been promised Jannah by the Prophet (SAW) himself. His contributions, and achievements during his life post/after the Prophet's (SAW) life outweighs that one blemish, and is now awaiting to enter Jannah, Insh'Allah.

Finally, there is an attachment provided by the OP with countless sources from your books proving the Prophet (SAW) had more than 1 daughter namely, Ruqayah, Umm Khulthum, and Zainab. You haven't commented on that, and as I said there are threads already on this forum where your fellow users are in disagreement among themselves whether Fatima was the only child or not. I also provided you with links where you can find reliable secondary sources that reference they were his daughters, and their names. If you want the original sources then go here:

https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/how-many-daughters-did-prophetsaw-had/

Scroll down, and you'll find them under "Proof from Sunni sources".

There are no praises for any of the daughters from our literature except for Zainab to my knowledge:

http://hadithanswers.com/most-beloved-daughter-of-rasulullah-sallallahualayhi-wasallam/

So, as far as the daughters are concerned the onus is on you to look this if you're really sincere to seek the truth. I'm convinced that you are.

The Seerah of our Prophet (SAW) should encompass every aspect of his life this includes his disciples, and not just his family. If your scholars have mentioned the companion's sacrifices, and contribution to the establishment of Islam then I'd be interested to check it out. Please share.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Megatron

[ShiaMan14]

@Megatron,

Dear brother - I have started a new topic to discuss the perceptions of Caliph Uthman:

 

[ShiaMan14]

On 9/10/2016 at 7:49 PM, Megatron said:

Finally, there is an attachment provided by the OP with countless sources from your books proving the Prophet (SAW) had more than 1 daughter namely, Ruqayah, Umm Khulthum, and Zainab. You haven't commented on that, and as I said there are threads already on this forum where your fellow users are in disagreement among themselves whether Fatima was the only child or not. I also provided you with links where you can find reliable secondary sources that reference they were his daughters, and their names. If you want the original sources then go here:

https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/how-many-daughters-did-prophetsaw-had/

Scroll down, and you'll find them under "Proof from Sunni sources".

There are no praises for any of the daughters from our literature except for Zainab to my knowledge:

http://hadithanswers.com/most-beloved-daughter-of-rasulullah-sallallahualayhi-wasallam/

So, as far as the daughters are concerned the onus is on you to look this if you're really sincere to seek the truth. I'm convinced that you are.

The Seerah of our Prophet (SAW) should encompass every aspect of his life this includes his disciples, and not just his family. If your scholars have mentioned the companion's sacrifices, and contribution to the establishment of Islam then I'd be interested to check it out. Please share.

I have not denied nor accepted the existence of the other daughters of the Prophet. Their existence and who they were married to are mutually exclusive events.

[Unity4Imam]

On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 10:47 AM, ahlussunnah said:

Apparently op is regarding those shia who deny the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) had four daughters from sayyida khadija (Ra). So if he married his daughters to Uthman (Ra) then that is a real problem for shias. Why a prophet would marry his daughters to a disbeliever in normal situation? This is the point.

Sorry brother, Prophet Mohammad s.a.w only had one daughter and her name was Fatima S.A. Most of our Sunni brothers claim that those were Imam Ali's daughters and they are using the same fake argument that if the 3 Sunni Khalifas were so and so why would Imam Ali a.s would let his daughters marry them? Stop spreading lies please, its a great sin specially when you lie about our Prpophet s.a.w.

Wasalam.