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In the Name of God بسم الله

What does shia have against abu bakr?

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I understand that Omar was brutal against the kawarijs so shia don't like him , but why do you not like abu bakr he was the one of who first people to believed in prophat Mohammed s.a.w and stayed in gar hiraa with him and immigrated with prophat from mecca to madenia , so what's the story behind shia rejection of abu bakr as first calepha , also I read that even imam ali give him bayaa and accepted him as first calaphite ! 

 

also can someone give me some online source to read about imam ali biography cuz I can't find authentic one , I brought a book but it's from sunni perspective , I don't know if shia have same story !

Edited by sakura1994
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1 hour ago, sakura1994 said:

also can someone give me some online source to read about imam ali biography cuz I can't find authentic one , I brought a book but it's from sunni perspective , I don't know if shia have same story !

This link might help you:

http://www.abuturab.org/

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1 hour ago, sakura1994 said:

also can someone give me some online source to read about imam ali biography cuz I can't find authentic one , I brought a book but it's from sunni perspective , I don't know if shia have same story !

try to read Al-Qadir book for Alamme Amini R.A. the Hadiths he did mention to them came from Sunni Sources.

DO NOT MISS THE BOOK.

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Salaam sakura1994,

Just a quick correction to your post: the khawarij did not exist at the time of Umar (you're welcome to check this in Sunni, Shia & secular historical accounts).  They appear during the rebellion of Muawiyah against what Sunnis call the fourth rightly guided Caliph and we Shias call the first Imam (Ali ibn Abu Talib Peace be upon Him).

As for Abu Bakr, DigitalUmmah has summarized it perfectly mashallah.

All I can add is the following: a true friend, let alone a best friend, does not leave his best friend's funeral preparations (and his grieving family) to go and fight with strangers over his best friend's inheritance. It's incredibly vulgar actually (be it in 7th century Arabia or this 21st century).

A gentleman does not treat a daughter grieving for her recently deceased father in a harsh, adversarial manner (Fadak). That's not even touching the fact that to deny a daughter the inheritance that her father bequeathed to her (on spurious legal grounds) is incredibly mean to say the least.

The historical fact is that Lady Zahra (Peace be upon Her) did not want Abu Bakr at her janazah. It is written in Sahih Bukhari Volume 5 and Sahih Muslim Volume 3 (I only give the volumes because the different editions published have different page numbers), that after this affair of Fadak, Lady Fatima became very much displeased with Abu Bakr and broke off relations with the Caliphate totally and never talked with him till she breathed her last breath. When she died, Imam Ali, as per her will, buried her in  the darkness of night and did not even inform Abu Bakr or Umar.

I believe that to refuse to take sides in this matter (one way or the other) is moral cowardice dressed as virtue.

I invite you to investigate all this via the medium of Sunni hadith.

Fi amanillah

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I'm assuming the OP mentioned the brutality against khwarij being a reason we hate omar because the OP probably believes shiasim is the remnants of the khwarij ! Which is completely ludicrous the remanats of khwarijism is non other than the wahabbi/takfiri daesh idealogy/regime of today , and it wasn't omar who defeated the first proper khwarij it was imam Ali (as) in the battle of nehrawan

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Assalam o Alaikum brother,

 

2 hours ago, Hidaren said:

First of all it was Imam Ali(as) who believed in the prophet(sawa), the first Muslim man is Ali(as) not Abu Bakr, second of all being in cave with the prophet(sawa) is greater or sleeping in the same night in the prophet's bed while an assassination plan was certain that night, Allah informed prophet about it. Ali(as) put his life endanger and Abu Bakr fled to save his own.

First one was Umm Khadija s.a, then Imam ALi a.s, then Zaid bin Harith (all family members). First one from outside family who became muslim was Hz. Abu bakr r.a. He became muslim much before than Salman Farsi r.a, Miqdad r.a and Abu zar r.a (top 3 sahabah according to tashayyu). And which one was major achievement for Prophet s.a.w.w for his mission? His family members becoming muslims or one out of family (Abu bakr)?

Both Imam Ali a.s and Hz. Abu bakr a.s followed the orders of prophet s.a.w.w at that night. But sadly people accept one and reject the other.

 

2 hours ago, Hidaren said:

Abu Bakr was the first caliph but he was not chosen by prophet(sawa), it was Imam Ali(as) who was chosen as the caliph by the prophet(sawa), and if sunnis want to say Qadir was for making peace between Imam Ali(as) and the rest of the companions, and prophet said that love Ali(as) not he is your master, then why on the earth did the prophet(sawa) ordered women to show their allegiance to Imam Ali(as) does it means that All women should be the friend of Imam Ali(as) or Ali(as) is caliph? The answer to this question shows you the answer and that would be usurping of Imam Ali(as) right to rule.

In reality Hz. Abu bakr a.s became the first caliph of muslims, chosen/accepted by muhajirun and ansar. Its ghadir not Qadir. And ghadir has nothing to do with caliphate at all. No one from the muhajirun and ansar understood ghadir in meaning of caliphate.

Women gave allegiance? New theory? All men gave bayah to abu bakr a.s and women gave to Ali a.s.

 

2 hours ago, Hidaren said:

Sons of Israel usurped the Haron's right to rule

Muslims usurped Imam Ali(as)'s right to rule.

Prophet Harun a.s died before Prophet Musa a.s.

 

 

2 hours ago, Hidaren said:

Sons of Israel killed their prophets.

Muslims killed Ahlulbayts.

 

Sons of Israel started to stick to worldly desires and began to corrupt the earth by committing sins and killing innocents and becoming tyrants.

Muslims did the same, their caliphs build great houses for themselves and gathere wealth for their own without sharing it with justice.

But,

Abu bakr r.a didnt kill any member of ahlulbayt. And neither made any property/wealth nor corrupted the earth and killed the innocents.

This was first done by Muawiya bin Abu sufiyan and followed by other caliphs who came after him.

 

 

2 hours ago, Hidaren said:

Sons of Israel were destroyed by a nation they did not know their language as a punishment, that nation was the people of Babylon.

Muslims were destroyed by a nation they did not know their language as a punishment by Allah, that nation was Mongols.

Right. And later the same mongols (turks) became muslims and caliphs after destroying banu abbas's rule.

But no one destroyed the caliphate of abu bakr r.a. If he was realy usurper and cruel etc (according to twelvers) then why not anyone came to stop him.

 

Edited by Fahad Sani
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On 9/1/2016 at 7:36 AM, DigitalUmmah said:

[*I*] hate omar because:

- he [EDIT] repeatedly fled mid battle, abandoning the prophet to save his own life
- [it is reported] he [drank alcohol]
- [it is reported] he [had a haram relationship with a man]
- he was an innovator in religion
- he was a tyrant
- [it is reported] he [caused a chain of events leading to the injury and death/martyrdom] of Lady Fatima (sa)
- he was the usurper and theif of Imam Ali (as) rights
- he was unworthy to be caliph
- he was jahil
- he was a nasibi
- almost every bad trait that is possible to be in a human being, was present in him. MashaAllah. 

Here is the truth regarding Umar a.s. He is one of the most influential person in the human history. World recognize him.

http://islamichistory.org/umar-ibn-al-khattab-amongst-the-most-influential-people-of-all-time/

http://www.oocities.org/azhkir111/azhkir111/4umr.htm

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This thread should be moved to the garbage can known as the Shia/Sunni discussion area and out of General Discussions so those of us that can't stand even reading the name Abu Bakr or Umar don't have to look at.

 

Edited by Akbar673
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6 hours ago, sakura1994 said:

I understand that Omar was brutal against the kawarijs so shia don't like him , but why do you not like abu bakr he was the one of who first people to believed in prophat Mohammed s.a.w and stayed in gar hiraa with him and immigrated with prophat from mecca to madenia , so what's the story behind shia rejection of abu bakr as first calepha , also I read that even imam ali give him bayaa and accepted him as first calaphite ! 

1. You remember the cave  at the night of hijra / migration but you simply forget that He is Imam Ali AS who slept at the bed of the Prophet saww,. He was on the bed where the kufars were having the swords for the plan of killing the prophet on that night. 

" The Prophet (s.a.w.w.) thus prepared for his journey. He knew however, that his house was already under the watch of the enemy and that any suspicious movement could cause them to act faster than they had planned.The Mushrikeen were keeping such a close watch on the house that they even peeped through the window from time to time to ensure that the Prophet (s.a.w.w.) was still there.
The night of the migration, there were 40 men stationed outside his home when the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) called Imam Ali (a.s.) to him. He said to Ali (a.s.), "O Ali, will you assist me in implementing the order of Allah (S.W.T.)?"
Imam Ali (a.s.) asked him how he could do this and the Prophet (s.a.w.w.) explained, "There are about 40 men outside who want to attack kill me. My Lord has informed of their plans and ordered me to leave this town and migrate but if they see that my bed is empty, they will understand that I have left and follow me so that they can carry out their evil plan. I need someone to sleep on my bed so that when they look through the window, they will think that it is I. It is very dangerous situation because the men may kill you instead by mistake. Are you ready to sleep in my bed despite all this?"
Imam Ali (a.s.) asked, "Will you be safe if I do so, Yaa Rasulalah?" The Prophet (s.a.w.w.) told him, "Yes, I will be able to migrate to Medina and succeed in my mission, Insha Allah."
When he heard this, Imam Ali (a.s.) immediately said that he would sleep in the Prophet (s.a.w.w.)'s bed. His firm and definite answer has gone down in history as an example of how ready he was to sacrifice all for the cause of Islam.
Thus, with Imam Ali (a.s.) taking his place in the house, the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) set off towards Medina with Abu Bakar as his traveling companion. The 40 Mushrikeen who were to murder the Prophet (s.a.w.w.) had chosen that same night to carry out their evil plot and gathered outside his house.
They wanted to break into the house and murder him in the middle of the night but when they looked through the window and saw his bed occupied they decided that they would leave it for the morning when they could see better. Confident of their numbers and knowing that he could not leave without being seen, they settled down outside the house and waited for sunrise. 
With the coming of dawn, they rushed into the house with drawn swords and prepared to kill the Prophet (s.a.w.w.). When Imam Ali (a.s.) heard the noise of their entry he threw off his blanket and they stopped short when they saw that they had the wrong man.

"Where is Muhammad?" they asked angrily.

"Did you leave him in my charge that you are asking me?" Imam (a.s.) replied. Seeing that they had lost their man and would get no information from Imam Ali (a.s.) they quickly left the house to see if they could find him in the town. When they discovered that he was no longer in Mecca, they realized that he must have left for Medina and sent out search parties to hunt for him on the way there.

They also set a prize of money and 100 camels for anyone who managed to capture the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.). 

It was on one of these nights that the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w.) asked Imam Ali (a.s.) to return all the Amanat (trust) of the people that had been left with him and to bring them camels to continue their travels with. After three days, they set out towards Medina, travelling at night and resting during the day so the spies would not catch them.
 

http://www.alhassanain.com/english/book/book/beliefs_library/various_books/islamic_culture_and_religious_studies_book_3/005.html

The great commander Ali Ibne Abi Talib never scared of death or martyrdom in the battles and this night so he is the Caliph announced by the Prophet saww on many occasions. instead of Abu bakr who was scared of his life even siting inside the cave with the Prophet saww.

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

Here is the truth regarding Umar a.s. He is one of the most influential person in the human history. World recognize him.

http://islamichistory.org/umar-ibn-al-khattab-amongst-the-most-influential-people-of-all-time/

http://www.oocities.org/azhkir111/azhkir111/4umr.htm

Atiq elected himself as a caliph secretly.

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38 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:
1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

Here is the truth regarding Umar a.s. He is one of the most influential person in the human history. World recognize him.

http://islamichistory.org/umar-ibn-al-khattab-amongst-the-most-influential-people-of-all-time/

http://www.oocities.org/azhkir111/azhkir111/4umr.htm

thats like saying hitler was one of the most influential people in human history, so worthy of respect. 

He is most influential based on his work, his achievements. Here are some of them.

 

  • Umar ibn Al-Khattab raḍyAllāhu 'anhu (may Allāh be pleased with him) established the public treasury: Bait-ul-Mal
  • Established courts of justice and appointed judges.
  • Proposed and enforced use of the era of Hijra.
  • Assumed the title of Amir-ul-Mu’minin.
  • To engage the anti-Islamic forces he organized and established the War Department.
  • Placed army reserves on the pay-roll. In addition to this, Umar Ibn Al-Khattab raḍyAllāhu 'anhu (may Allāh be pleased with him) improved the army administration by providing every army corps with an officer of the treasury, an accountant, and number of interpreters, physicians and surgeons. He instructed the army commanders to submit accounts of war expenditures and list of the spoils of war. Historical records show that in 16 Hijri Ziyad bin Abi Sufyan came from city of Jalula Ð after its conquest – and brought with him the records of the accounts to Madinah and submitted them for Umar ibn Al-Khattab’s perusal and review.
  • Established Land Revenue Department, ordered survey and assessment of lands and also ordered conducting census. This required maintenance of the land revenue records in Persian, Syriac and Coptic languages. The accounts were kept on long rolled-up sheets.
  • Founded cities: Kufah, Basrah, Jazirah, Fustat and Musal and undertook construction and building of canals.
  • Divided conquered countries into provinces.
  • Ordered collecting customs duties.
  • Appointed officials for the collection of tax on the produce of sea.
  • Gave permission to traders from foreign countries to conduct business in the Islamic territory.
  • Organized jails and enforced use of the whip.
  • Made rounds at night to gauge and evaluate the condition of the people. For relaxations he enjoyed lighter pursuits including poetry. Once he asked Abdullah bin Abbas to recite him poetry the whole night. At the time when dawn was breaking, he said, “Now recite the Holy Qur’an.” During one of his night rounds around the city he heard the sound of music. He stopped and listened to the music and then moved on.
  • Established military cantonments and had them located at strategic points.
  • Organized Police Department.
  • Set up a system to classify pedigree and non-pedigree horses.
  • Built houses on the road from Makkah to Madinah for the comfort of the travelers and also established guest-houses in different cities. At that time a system was established for the clearance of land, construction of roads, building of bridges and other operations which are carried out by sappers and miner in present day armies. The local people of the lands were recruited to perform these duties.
  • Provided stipends for the poor Jewish and Christian people.
  • Established schools and provided salaries for school teachers and public lecturers.
  • Proposed the principle of Qiyas and its formulation.
  • Proposed exact division of inheritance.
  • Proposed and inserted additional statement “Prayer is better than sleep” in the call for Fajr prayers.
  • Ordained performing taraweeh prayers in congregation.
  • Established law for the punishment of alcohol drinkers with eighty lashes.
  • Proposed a method for preparing trusts.
  • Obtained consensus of opinion for saying four takbirs in funeral prayer.
  • Made arrangements for providing lights in mosques at night. It is stated that until the Khilafate of Umar ibn Al-Khattab raḍyAllāhu 'anhu (may Allāh be pleased with him) there were no arrangements for lights in the mosques. A person by name Tamim Dari made the arrangements and supplied lamps for the mosques with Umar ibn Al-Khattab’s permission.
  • Established a procedure to giving salaries from the public treasury to Imams and Muazzins.

 

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21 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

He is most influential based on his work, his achievements. Here are some of them.

 

  • Umar ibn Al-Khattab raḍyAllāhu 'anhu (may Allāh be pleased with him) established the public treasury: Bait-ul-Mal
  • Established courts of justice and appointed judges.
  • Proposed and enforced use of the era of Hijra.
  • Assumed the title of Amir-ul-Mu’minin.
  • To engage the anti-Islamic forces he organized and established the War Department.
  • Placed army reserves on the pay-roll. In addition to this, Umar Ibn Al-Khattab raḍyAllāhu 'anhu (may Allāh be pleased with him) improved the army administration by providing every army corps with an officer of the treasury, an accountant, and number of interpreters, physicians and surgeons. He instructed the army commanders to submit accounts of war expenditures and list of the spoils of war. Historical records show that in 16 Hijri Ziyad bin Abi Sufyan came from city of Jalula Ð after its conquest – and brought with him the records of the accounts to Madinah and submitted them for Umar ibn Al-Khattab’s perusal and review.
  • Established Land Revenue Department, ordered survey and assessment of lands and also ordered conducting census. This required maintenance of the land revenue records in Persian, Syriac and Coptic languages. The accounts were kept on long rolled-up sheets.
  • Founded cities: Kufah, Basrah, Jazirah, Fustat and Musal and undertook construction and building of canals.
  • Divided conquered countries into provinces.
  • Ordered collecting customs duties.
  • Appointed officials for the collection of tax on the produce of sea.
  • Gave permission to traders from foreign countries to conduct business in the Islamic territory.
  • Organized jails and enforced use of the whip.
  • Made rounds at night to gauge and evaluate the condition of the people. For relaxations he enjoyed lighter pursuits including poetry. Once he asked Abdullah bin Abbas to recite him poetry the whole night. At the time when dawn was breaking, he said, “Now recite the Holy Qur’an.” During one of his night rounds around the city he heard the sound of music. He stopped and listened to the music and then moved on.
  • Established military cantonments and had them located at strategic points.
  • Organized Police Department.
  • Set up a system to classify pedigree and non-pedigree horses.
  • Built houses on the road from Makkah to Madinah for the comfort of the travelers and also established guest-houses in different cities. At that time a system was established for the clearance of land, construction of roads, building of bridges and other operations which are carried out by sappers and miner in present day armies. The local people of the lands were recruited to perform these duties.
  • Provided stipends for the poor Jewish and Christian people.
  • Established schools and provided salaries for school teachers and public lecturers.
  • Proposed the principle of Qiyas and its formulation.
  • Proposed exact division of inheritance.
  • Proposed and inserted additional statement “Prayer is better than sleep” in the call for Fajr prayers.
  • Ordained performing taraweeh prayers in congregation.
  • Established law for the punishment of alcohol drinkers with eighty lashes.
  • Proposed a method for preparing trusts.
  • Obtained consensus of opinion for saying four takbirs in funeral prayer.
  • Made arrangements for providing lights in mosques at night. It is stated that until the Khilafate of Umar ibn Al-Khattab raḍyAllāhu 'anhu (may Allāh be pleased with him) there were no arrangements for lights in the mosques. A person by name Tamim Dari made the arrangements and supplied lamps for the mosques with Umar ibn Al-Khattab’s permission.
  • Established a procedure to giving salaries from the public treasury to Imams and Muazzins.

 

For these replies come from Umar himself:

Qazi Fazlullah Bin Ruzbahan, the fanatic, in his Ibtalu'l-Batil; Ibn Hajar Asqalani in his Tihdhibu'l-Tahdid, printed in Hyderabad Daccan, page 337; Ibn Hajar in Isaba, Volume II, printed in Egypt, page 509; Ibn Qutayba Dinawari in Ta'wil-e-Mukhtalafu'l-Hadith, page 201-202, Ibn Hajar Makki in Sawa'iq-e-Muhriqa, page 78; Hajj Ahmad Afindi in Hidayatu'l-Murtab, page 146 and 152; Ibn Athir Jazari in Usudu'l-Ghaiba, Volume IV, page 22; Jalalu'd-Din Suyuti in Ta'rikhu'l-Khulafa, page 66; Ibn Abdu'l-Birr Qartabi in Isti'ab, Volume II, page 474; Seyyed Mu'min Shablanji in Nuru'l-Absar, page 73; Shahabu'd-Din Ahmad bin Abdu'l-Qadir A'jili in Zakhiratu'l-Ma'al; Muhammad bin Ali As-Saban in Is'afu'r-Raghibin, page 152; Nuru'd-Din bin Sabbagh Maliki in Fusulu'l-Muhimma, page 18; Nuru'd-Din Ali bin Abdullah Samhudi in Jawahiru'l-Iqdain; Ibn Abi'l-Hadid Mu'tazili in Sharhe Nahju'l-Balagha, Volume I, page 6, Allama Qushachi in Sharh-e-Tarid, page 407, Khatib Khawarizmi in Manaqib, page 48, 60, Muhammad bin Talha Shafi'i in Matalibu's-Su'ul sub-Chapter 6, page 29, Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal in Faza'il as well as Musnad; Sibt Ibn Jauzi in Tadhkira, page 85, 87, Imam Tha'labi in Tafsir Kafshu'l-Bayan, Allama Ibn Qayyim Jauzi in Turuqi'l-Hakim, recording Ali's judgments from page 41 to page 53; Muhammad bin Yusuf Ganji Shafi'i in Kifayatu't-Talib, Chapter 57; Ibn Maja Qazwini in Sunan, Ibn Maghazili Shafi'i in Manaqib; Ibrahim bin Muhammad Hamwaini in Fara'id; Muhammad bin Ali bin Hasani'l-Hakim in Sharh-e-Fathi'l-Mubin, Dailami in Firdaus, Sheikh Sulayman Balkhi Hanafi in Yanabiu'l-Mawadda, Chapter 14, Hafiz Abu Nu'aim Ispahani in Hilyatu'l-Auliya as well as in Ma Nazala'l-Qur'an fi Ali, and a host of other great ulema of your sect, with slight variation in words, have narrated Umar's saying,

"If there were no Ali, Umar would have been ruined."

http://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2123:if-ali-had-not-been-there,-umar-would-have-been-ruined&catid=262&Itemid=334

Wasalam

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55 minutes ago, celestial said:
2 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Umar a.s.

Are you for real? Are you doing this on purpose?

I'm requesting a ban on this nasibi who praises the murderer of our beloved mother.

Brother, why are you geting so hyper.

what's wrong in saying a.s with other than ahlulbayt? You can use this phrase for anyone you want. Dont you say th same during salah in tash'had as "assalmu alaina wa ala ibadillahis shalihin"

I am following words and sunnah of my mawla Ali a.s. I dont need certificate from any scholar etc to do so.

Sermon 226. http://www.nahjulbalagha.org/Nahjul-Balagha-Sermons/nahjul-balagha-sermon-226.html

About a companion who passed away from this world before the occurrence of troubles.

May Allah reward such and such man (1) who straightened the curve, cured the disease, abandoned mischief and established the sunnah. He departed (from this world) with untarnished clothes and little shortcomings. He achieved good (of this world) and remained safe from its evils. He offered Allah's obedience and feared Him as He deserved. He went away and left the people in dividing ways wherein the misled cannot obtain guidance and the guided cannot attain certainty.


(1). Ibn Abi'l-Hadid has written (in Sharh Nahj al-balaghah, vol. 14, pp. 3-4) that the reference here is to the second Caliph `Umar, and that these sentences have been uttered in his praise as indicated by the word '`Umar' written under the word 'such and such' in as-Sayyid ar-Radi's own hand in the manuscript of Nahj al-balaghah written by him.

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/2196_شرح-نهج-البلاغة-ابن-أبي-الحديد-ج-١٢/الصفحة_3

 

Same is also in bukhari as narrated by Ibn Abbas r.a

http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/62/27

 

ALHAMDULILLAH

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8 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Brother, why are you geting so hyper.

what's wrong in saying a.s with other than ahlulbayt? You can use this phrase for anyone you want. Dont you say th same during salah in tash'had as "assalmu alaina wa ala ibadillahis shalihin"

I am following words and sunnah of my mawla Ali a.s. I dont need certificate from any scholar etc to do so.

Sermon 226. http://www.nahjulbalagha.org/Nahjul-Balagha-Sermons/nahjul-balagha-sermon-226.html

About a companion who passed away from this world before the occurrence of troubles.

May Allah reward such and such man (1) who straightened the curve, cured the disease, abandoned mischief and established the sunnah. He departed (from this world) with untarnished clothes and little shortcomings. He achieved good (of this world) and remained safe from its evils. He offered Allah's obedience and feared Him as He deserved. He went away and left the people in dividing ways wherein the misled cannot obtain guidance and the guided cannot attain certainty.


(1). Ibn Abi'l-Hadid has written (in Sharh Nahj al-balaghah, vol. 14, pp. 3-4) that the reference here is to the second Caliph `Umar, and that these sentences have been uttered in his praise as indicated by the word '`Umar' written under the word 'such and such' in as-Sayyid ar-Radi's own hand in the manuscript of Nahj al-balaghah written by him.

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/2196_شرح-نهج-البلاغة-ابن-أبي-الحديد-ج-١٢/الصفحة_3

I don't care about Ibn Abi'l Hadid's commentary when there are clear words against your tyrant caliphs. Why do you ignore tons of hadith from infallibles and adhere to a weak comment? It's just his comment. I don't think anybody in shia world take Ibn Abi'l Hadid seriously. Do you think you are so smart?

35 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

  • Proposed the principle of Qiyas and its formulation.
  • Proposed exact division of inheritance.
  • Proposed and inserted additional statement “Prayer is better than sleep” in the call for Fajr prayers.
  • Ordained performing taraweeh prayers in congregation.
  • Established law for the punishment of alcohol drinkers with eighty lashes.
  • Proposed a method for preparing trusts.
  • Obtained consensus of opinion for saying four takbirs in funeral prayer.
  • Established a procedure to giving salaries from the public treasury to Imams and Muazzins.

 

 

These are all bidahs he introduced into the religion, and you are here telling it like it's something good, although there are countless warnings against bidah. If only you would knew how pathetic you made yourself look...

Stop calling me a brother, nasibi. You are a twister of words and a provacateur, go to hell.

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28 minutes ago, skamran110 said:

For these replies come from Umar himself:

Qazi Fazlullah Bin Ruzbahan, the fanatic, in his Ibtalu'l-Batil; Ibn Hajar Asqalani in his Tihdhibu'l-Tahdid, printed in Hyderabad Daccan, page 337; Ibn Hajar in Isaba, Volume II, printed in Egypt, page 509; Ibn Qutayba Dinawari in Ta'wil-e-Mukhtalafu'l-Hadith, page 201-202, Ibn Hajar Makki in Sawa'iq-e-Muhriqa, page 78; Hajj Ahmad Afindi in Hidayatu'l-Murtab, page 146 and 152; Ibn Athir Jazari in Usudu'l-Ghaiba, Volume IV, page 22; Jalalu'd-Din Suyuti in Ta'rikhu'l-Khulafa, page 66; Ibn Abdu'l-Birr Qartabi in Isti'ab, Volume II, page 474; Seyyed Mu'min Shablanji in Nuru'l-Absar, page 73; Shahabu'd-Din Ahmad bin Abdu'l-Qadir A'jili in Zakhiratu'l-Ma'al; Muhammad bin Ali As-Saban in Is'afu'r-Raghibin, page 152; Nuru'd-Din bin Sabbagh Maliki in Fusulu'l-Muhimma, page 18; Nuru'd-Din Ali bin Abdullah Samhudi in Jawahiru'l-Iqdain; Ibn Abi'l-Hadid Mu'tazili in Sharhe Nahju'l-Balagha, Volume I, page 6, Allama Qushachi in Sharh-e-Tarid, page 407, Khatib Khawarizmi in Manaqib, page 48, 60, Muhammad bin Talha Shafi'i in Matalibu's-Su'ul sub-Chapter 6, page 29, Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal in Faza'il as well as Musnad; Sibt Ibn Jauzi in Tadhkira, page 85, 87, Imam Tha'labi in Tafsir Kafshu'l-Bayan, Allama Ibn Qayyim Jauzi in Turuqi'l-Hakim, recording Ali's judgments from page 41 to page 53; Muhammad bin Yusuf Ganji Shafi'i in Kifayatu't-Talib, Chapter 57; Ibn Maja Qazwini in Sunan, Ibn Maghazili Shafi'i in Manaqib; Ibrahim bin Muhammad Hamwaini in Fara'id; Muhammad bin Ali bin Hasani'l-Hakim in Sharh-e-Fathi'l-Mubin, Dailami in Firdaus, Sheikh Sulayman Balkhi Hanafi in Yanabiu'l-Mawadda, Chapter 14, Hafiz Abu Nu'aim Ispahani in Hilyatu'l-Auliya as well as in Ma Nazala'l-Qur'an fi Ali, and a host of other great ulema of your sect, with slight variation in words, have narrated Umar's saying,

"If there were no Ali, Umar would have been ruined."

http://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2123:if-ali-had-not-been-there,-umar-would-have-been-ruined&catid=262&Itemid=334

Wasalam

It was said regarding certain things. This shows the love and care Umar a.s had for Ali a.s.

Now here are some words of Ali a.s for Umar a.s.

http://www.nahjulbalagha.org/Nahjul-Balagha-Sermons/nahjul-balagha-sermon-226.html

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/2196_شرح-نهج-البلاغة-ابن-أبي-الحديد-ج-١٢/الصفحة_3

http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/62/27

 

 W.salam

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You are entitled to your opinions dear brother it is only fair , you have not been rude to us and I apologise on behalf of myself if my comment was to mean and arrogant but you got to understand this is shiachat and it's not a place where abu bakr and umar will be renowned for a good reputation in our opinion they usurped the rights but at the same time we should not hurl abuse at you since you are showing ikhlaq and have not been disrespectful towards us , we should keep this discussion academic rather than emotional since other sunni muslims maybe reading this and may start despising us if they already don't , anyway getting back to the point for us prophet Muhammed ( sawa ) is the greatest creation and then after him is is 12 infallible successors , wsalam

 

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9 minutes ago, Abdul-Hussein said:

Amir-ul-Mu’minin is a much pillaged title. I remember the heads of my uni ISOC calling themselves that.

Though I was Sunni at the time, it wound me up no end (I mean how pompous can you get?).

Same title was also used by Imam Ali Reza a.s for caliph mamun.

https://www.al-islam.org/uyun-akhbar-ar-ridha-volume-1-shaykh-saduq/chpater-25-what-narrated-al-ridha-about-zayd-ibn-ali

- حَدَّثَنا أَحْمَدِ بْنِ يَحْيَى المكتب قالَ أَخْبَرنا مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ يَحْيَى الصُّوليُّ قالَ: حَدَّثَنا مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ يَزِيد النحوي قالَ: حَدَّثَني ابْنِ أَبي عَبْدون، عَن أَبيهِ قالَ لَمَّا حُمِلَ زَيْدُ بْنُ مُوسَى بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ إِلَى الْمَأْمُونِ وَقَدْ كَانَ خَرَجَ بِالْبَصْرَةِ وَأَحْرَقَ دُورَ وُلْدِ الْعَبَّاسِ وَهَبَ الْمَأْمُونُ جُرْمَهُ لاخِيهِ عَلِيِّ بْنِ مُوسَى الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ وَقَالَ لَهُ يَا أَبَا الْحَسَنِ لَئِنْ خَرَجَ أَخُوكَ وَفَعَلَ مَا فَعَلَ لَقَدْ خَرَجَ قَبْلَهُ زَيْدُ بْنُ عَلِيٍّ فَقُتِلَ وَلَوْ لا مَكَانُكَ مِنِّي لَقَتَلْتُهُ فَلَيْسَ مَا أَتَاهُ بِصَغِيرٍ فَقَالَ الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ لا تَقِسْ أَخِي زَيْداً إِلَى زَيْدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍ‏ عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ فَإِنَّهُ كَانَ مِنْ عُلَمَاءِ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ غَضِبَ لِلَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ فَجَاهَدَ أَعْدَاءَهُ حَتَّى قُتِلَ فِي سَبِيلِهِ وَلَقَدْ حَدَّثَنِي أَبِي مُوسَى بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ أَبَاهُ جَعْفَرَ بْنَ مُحَمَّدٍ يَقُولُ رَحِمَ اللَّهُ عَمِّي زَيْداً إِنَّهُ دَعَا إِلَى الرِّضَا مِنْ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَلَوْ ظَفِرَ لَوَفَى بِمَا دَعَا إِلَيْهِ وَقَدِ اسْتَشَارَنِي فِي خُرُوجِهِ فَقُلْتُ لَهُ يَا عَمِّ إِنْ رَضِيتَ أَنْ تَكُونَ الْمَقْتُولَ الْمَصْلُوبَ بِالْكُنَاسَةِ فَشَأْنَكَ فَلَمَّا وَلَّى قَالَ جَعْفَرُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَيْلٌ لِمَنْ سَمِعَ وَاعِيَتُهُ فَلَمْ يُجِبْهُ

 

25-1 Ahmad ibn Yahya al-Mokattib narrated that Muhammad ibn Yahya al-Sowly quoted on the authority of Muhammad ibn Yazid al-Nahawi, on the authority of Ibn Abi Abdoon, on the authority of his father, “When Zayd ibn Musa ibn Ja’far revolted in Basra and set the homes of the Abbasids on fire, they took him to Al-Ma’mun. Al-Ma’mun forgave him on behalf of his brother Ali ibn Musa Al-Ridha’ (a.s.) and told the Imam (a.s.), “If your brother has revolted and has done this and that, so did Zayd ibn Ali before and he got killed. If you did not possess the rank near me that you have now, I would have killed him since what he has done is not negligible. Al-Ridha’ (a.s.) said, “O Commander of the Faithful! Do not compare my brother with Zayd ibn Ali since he was one of the scholars from the Household of Muhammad and got angry for the sake of the Honorable the Exalted God.

 

What is shocking for me is the fact that why twelvers only call Ali a.s as amir ul momineen out of 12 Imams.

 

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10 minutes ago, yolanda313786 said:

since you are showing ikhlaq and have not been disrespectful towards us ,

What akhlaq are you talking about? Allying with the enemies of Allah asws and the Ahlulbayt a.s. is the worst akhlaq, and praising those enemies are the worst disrespect to us. This guy doesn't read any replies to him properly, he is not here to learn or debate anything. He is just here to spill his nonsense and ridiculous claims backed by evidence from famous nasibis like Bukhari. What academic discussion with someone who relies on Bukhari? lol.

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24 minutes ago, celestial said:
31 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Brother, why are you geting so hyper.

what's wrong in saying a.s with other than ahlulbayt? You can use this phrase for anyone you want. Dont you say th same during salah in tash'had as "assalmu alaina wa ala ibadillahis shalihin"

I am following words and sunnah of my mawla Ali a.s. I dont need certificate from any scholar etc to do so.

Sermon 226. http://www.nahjulbalagha.org/Nahjul-Balagha-Sermons/nahjul-balagha-sermon-226.html

About a companion who passed away from this world before the occurrence of troubles.

May Allah reward such and such man (1) who straightened the curve, cured the disease, abandoned mischief and established the sunnah. He departed (from this world) with untarnished clothes and little shortcomings. He achieved good (of this world) and remained safe from its evils. He offered Allah's obedience and feared Him as He deserved. He went away and left the people in dividing ways wherein the misled cannot obtain guidance and the guided cannot attain certainty.


 

I don't care about Ibn Abi'l Hadid's commentary when there are clear words against your tyrant caliphs. Why do you ignore tons of hadith from infallibles and adhere to a weak comment? It's just his comment. I don't think anybody in shia world take Ibn Abi'l Hadid seriously. Do you think you are so smart?

Ibn hadid's words are based on Sayed Razi's own manuscript of nahjul balagha.

Ibn Abi'l-Hadid has written (in Sharh Nahj al-balaghah, vol. 14, pp. 3-4) that the reference here is to the second Caliph `Umar, and that these sentences have been uttered in his praise as indicated by the word '`Umar' written under the word 'such and such' in as-Sayyid ar-Radi's own hand in the manuscript of Nahj al-balaghah written by him.

Check this link. Last two lines.

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/2196_شرح-نهج-البلاغة-ابن-أبي-الحديد-ج-١٢/الصفحة_3

 

28 minutes ago, celestial said:
1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

  • Proposed the principle of Qiyas and its formulation.
  • Proposed exact division of inheritance.
  • Proposed and inserted additional statement “Prayer is better than sleep” in the call for Fajr prayers.
  • Ordained performing taraweeh prayers in congregation.
  • Established law for the punishment of alcohol drinkers with eighty lashes.
  • Proposed a method for preparing trusts.
  • Obtained consensus of opinion for saying four takbirs in funeral prayer.
  • Established a procedure to giving salaries from the public treasury to Imams and Muazzins.

 

 

These are all bidahs he introduced into the religion, and you are here telling it like it's something good, although there are countless warnings against bidah. If only you would knew how pathetic you made yourself look...

Stop calling me a brother, nasibi. You are a twister of words and a provacateur, go to hell.

None from the above is bidah. Some of them are Sunnahs of Prophet s.a.w.w, Hz Umar just revived those (there are strong evidences on this) and rest are mubah.

Then what should I call you?

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You know for the life of me I'll never be able to understand why Sunni come to a Shia forum and try to convince us of the "noble qualities" of Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and/or Aisha and whomever other Sunni historical figures (i.e. Khalid ibn Waleed, Amr e Aas, etc...)that we don't hold in high regard. :confused:

I mean seriously do you actually think that posting a bunch of links to Sunni website(s) is actually going to make Shia change their opinion of those guys? :einstein:

Grow a brain and realize that you're better off posting about anything else.

How stupid can you really by? :angry:

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36 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Ibn hadid's words are based on Sayed Razi's own manuscript of nahjul balagha.

Why doesn't this mysterious comment doesn't appear on Sayed Razi's manuscripts of nahjul balagha today?

Why just Ibn Hadid claims this?

How do I know Ibn Hadid doesn't lie?

How do I know Ibn Hadid had the original copy of Sayed Razi's own manuscript?

Is it clear that this commentary was directed at Umar Ibn Khattab, not any other Umar?

Sayed Razi born on 907, died at 1015.

Ibn Hadid born on 1190, died at 1258. There is 175 years between them.

Why should I take Ibn Hadid seriously? Who is he?

Do you expect us to believe this nonsense?

 
   
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