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In the Name of God بسم الله
Reza

Thoughts 2016-2017 (Archives)

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4 hours ago, starlight said:

Reminder to self - We are not meant to 'live' in this duniya; we are only passing through. 

in that case I am definitely passing through a disneyland and hell simultaneously 

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I'd appreciate it if you can spare a dua for the health of my friend's fiancée. They are not Muslim but they are good people. They are young but nonetheless he was having symptoms of heart attack. It's particularly terrifying for my friend because she lost her husband to cancer a few years ago. 

He's in the hospital now. I've never met the man, but he is important to my friend. 

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22 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

@ChristianladyWhenever anyone says " Death to America" in here, well...that is pretty harsh language and  surely problematic ,
 

Salam LeftCoastMom,

True.

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but I don't read it as them wanting death to me or you.

Would you read it as wanting death to you if someone said "Death" to your tribe?

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They want death to the imperialism, greed, supremacy,etc. that this nation-state has foisted upon other peoples. At least that's the way I read it.

Why not say, "Death to Imperialism" or "Death to greed" or "Death to supremacy"?(All these by the way are traits of many countries, not just the USA.)

Surely it's not hard to say death to evil traits instead of saying death to countries? I mean, China has human rights issues, so should we say "death" to China? No way! I personally don't want death to China or any nation; I do want for people in China to have human rights.

Saying death to a country or group of people is hateful speech, and most people understand that.

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PS...I myself would like that version of " America" to die.

Do you go around saying "Death to America"? If so, how do fellow Americans respond to that?

Words matter, which is what I repeatedly tell Trump supporters. If words lose their meaning, communication becomes very difficult.

Peace and God bless you

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(LCM puts out soapbox) lol

^ When I discuss the USA I use almost the exact same words that @IbnSina does. It is a country founded on genocide and slavery. Whoever does not want to hear that simply does not want to look at the truth and is no better than a Holocaust denier in my eyes.  

"My fellow Americans "who are not native and who have any brains or hearts at all know what my family suffered and what their family gained from it. 

America is not " my tribe". America is an empire that sits on top of my tribe at present. . I don't equate the two. If my tribe were capable of invading and laying waste to another country at will then  I guess I would have to hear the hate coming from them and accept that they had a legitimate grievance against us. As it is....it's only been a few generations since we were " terrorists".

If perchance China invaded the US , destroyed its government, and killed millions of citizens...including children and babies, you'd hear plenty of "hate speech". Look what happened after Pearl Harbor with the Japanese. 

Some of these  folks have been invaded, bombed, had their homes destroyed, and had their kids murdered by the US empire. I can't expect them or their relatives to use soft words with us. If it hurts to hear it, our government has hurt them far more than they will likely ever hurt us. 

" Hate speech" , as you phrase it, pales in comparison to what we have done to them. They even have every reason to hate Americans as individuals , but most of them don't.  I can parse that even through the slogans. The fact that they don't hate all of us speaks volumes about their own capacity to separate  the actions of governments from people and to have enough heart not to hate me as a citizen of the nation that ravaged them.

 

 

So I will  personally take their  angered speech ( I'm not going to indulge myself in any " fragile Americanism") and say " I'm sorry. I tried to stop it. I hope you believe that.  I failed you. I hope you can forgive me. I will do what I can as long as I draw breath to get justice for you and to turn this country to better ways."

It's a p*ss-poor apology ,but it's what I have.

If I want  " America" to live...it's  the parts of America that marches down the streets against dirty wars in spite of the police blockades, fights to protect rivers and the rest of the good green earth, and pushes the government to feed, educate, and provide for its citizens instead of bombing everyone else's. I can only hope the citizens of other countries are doing the same.

(okay, I'll get off my soapbox now.)

 

 

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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1 minute ago, LeftCoastMom said:

(LCM puts out soapbox) lol

^ When I discuss the USA I use almost the exact same words that @IbnSina does. It is a country founded on genocide and slavery. Whoever does not want to hear that simply does not want to look at the truth and is no better than a Holocaust denier in my eyes.  

Salam LeftCoastMom,

Do you wish that you were not an American? 
 

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"My fellow Americans "who are not native and who have any brains or hearts at all know what my family suffered and what their family gained from it. 

America is not " my tribe". America is an empire that sits on top of my tribe at present. .

 

Do you love the USA, or America, as some people call it. (My hubby thinks it's funny when people from the USA monopolize "America" since his family is from South America.

Do you consider yourself an American?

While America is not my tribe, America is my country. I did not invade your people or your tribe. I wasn't alive. I am ashamed that Europeans and early Americans did invade your people, but again, i wasn't there. I wasn't alive then. I wish your tribe well. I don't want death to your tribe. Why would I?

Do you blame the present America for what happened in the past???

You did not answer my question. My question was:

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 Would you read it as wanting death to you if someone said "Death" to your tribe?

Personally, I think that anybody who would say "death" to your tribe or any other tribe or people group or nation or country is a person filled with hatred. That is evil and wrong, and I would protest anybody who said or brought death to your tribe.

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You did noI don't equate the two. If my tribe were capable of invading and laying waste to another country at will then  I guess I would have to hear the hate coming from them and accept that they had a legitimate grievance against us. As it is....it's only been a few generations since we were " terrorists".


 

If your tribe were capable of invading other tribes, would they do it? Why or why not?

Doesn't Native tribal history include tribes attacking each other?

Most Americans nowadays don't attack and kill Native Americans. 

My Native American friends don't live in hatred and bitterness against other Americans; they have forgiven the past and have joined the present, making the future better for all Americans.

 

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If perchance China invaded the US , destroyed its government, and killed millions of citizens...including children and babies, you'd hear plenty of "hate speech". Look what happened after Pearl Harbor with the Japanese. 

True. However, it is wrong for Americans to hate Japanese people, and it was evil for the USA to nuke Japan.

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Some of these  folks have been invaded, bombed, had their homes destroyed, and had their kids murdered by the US empire. I can't expect them or their relatives to use soft words with us. It hurts to hear it, but our government has hurt them far more than they will likely ever hurt me. 

I understand why they use it, but it just shows hatred. There are many reasons to hate people, and one of those reasons is injustice. If people want to hate, they can hate. However, wishing death on a nation isn't going to make anything better for them. The USA didn't become a great nation because of hatred, but because of love and creativity.

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" Hate speech" , as you phrase it, pales in comparison to what we have done to them.

If they could, do you think they wouldn't invade the USA?

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They even have every reason to hate Americans as individuals , but most of them don't.  I can parse that even through the slogans. The fact that they don't hate all of us speaks volumes about their own capacity to separate  the actions of governments from people and to have enough heart not to hate me as a citizen of the nation that ravaged them.


Agreed.

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So I will  personally take their  angered speech ( I'm not going to indulge myself in any " fragile Americanism") and say " I'm sorry. I tried to stop it. I hope you believe that.  I failed you. I will do what I can as long as I draw breath to get justice for you and to turn this country to better ways."

It's a p*ss-poor apology ,but it's what I have.

 

There's nothing wrong in apologizing, and I apologize to Muslims for what the USA has done to the their countries all the time. I wish the USA hadn't done what it did, but American leaders didn't ask me.

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If I want  " America" to live...it's  the parts of America that marches down the streets against dirty wars in spite of the police blockades, fights to protect rivers and the rest of the good green earth, and pushes the government to feed, educate, and provide for its citizens instead of bombing everyone else's. I can only hope the citizens of other countries are doing the same.

Amen.

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(okay, I'll get off my soapbox now.)

 

Lol.

I'd really appreciate it if you would answer my questions when you have time. Thanks.

Peace and God bless you

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Two things I have decided I am officially tired of in the dominant culture:

1. Being asked where  and how my son in law was raised ....presumably to ascertain whether or not he is dangerous to my daughter.

( First of all...Are we talking about a man or a pit bull puppy? Secondly...one of the most  gender equality loving fellows I know was born and raised in freaking Saudi Arabia and some of the worst wife abusers I know are Americans. So I get their concern but why does the fact that he's an American  citizen  that has spent a lot of time in the States give him a clean bill of mental health? People are complex intelligent beings able to evaluate their upbringing and environments.)

2. Being told, after you inform them that you might be visiting  ANY middle eastern nation, that you are so very brave for venturing into such a "  backwards, war-torn country" to see your in-laws,but should you really risk your family's life like that? 

Finally, at the risk of sounding racist....why are so many white  American women holding themselves out as experts on middle eastern males?  As far as I can tell, they have not had relationships with them. Is there a course somewhere they all  take? I guess I'm not the correct heritage to get that memo.

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On 8/30/2016 at 8:27 PM, Christianlady said:

Salam LeftCoastMom,

Do you wish that you were not an American? 
 

Do you love the USA, or America, as some people call it. (My hubby thinks it's funny when people from the USA monopolize "America" since his family is from South America.

Do you consider yourself an American?

While America is not my tribe, America is my country. I did not invade your people or your tribe. I wasn't alive. I am ashamed that Europeans and early Americans did invade your people, but again, i wasn't there. I wasn't alive then. I wish your tribe well. I don't want death to your tribe. Why would I?

Do you blame the present America for what happened in the past???

You did not answer my question. My question was:

Personally, I think that anybody who would say "death" to your tribe or any other tribe or people group or nation or country is a person filled with hatred. That is evil and wrong, and I would protest anybody who said or brought death to your tribe.

If your tribe were capable of invading other tribes, would they do it? Why or why not?

Doesn't Native tribal history include tribes attacking each other?

Most Americans nowadays don't attack and kill Native Americans. 

My Native American friends don't live in hatred and bitterness against other Americans; they have forgiven the past and have joined the present, making the future better for all Americans.

 

True. However, it is wrong for Americans to hate Japanese people, and it was evil for the USA to nuke Japan.

I understand why they use it, but it just shows hatred. There are many reasons to hate people, and one of those reasons is injustice. If people want to hate, they can hate. However, wishing death on a nation isn't going to make anything better for them. The USA didn't become a great nation because of hatred, but because of love and creativity.

If they could, do you think they wouldn't invade the USA?


Agreed.

There's nothing wrong in apologizing, and I apologize to Muslims for what the USA has done to the their countries all the time. I wish the USA hadn't done what it did, but American leaders didn't ask me.

Amen.

Lol.

I'd really appreciate it if you would answer my questions when you have time. Thanks.

Peace and God bless you

If people said " Death to my tribe" I would do exactly as I said ...figure out why they were saying that. Usually, with the genocidal Anericans...it did mean wiping all of us out, but that does not seem to be what the people here are saying...so it's apples and oranges and a false equivalency.

Do I consider myself an American? What choice do I have since  the Citizenship Act imposed it?  Some tribes did not want it and a couple still do not accept it and their members only vote in tribal elections and try to travel on their own tribally-issued passports and tribal ID's. They do not consider themselves Americans but citizens of their tribal nations. The rest of us consider ourselves sort of dual citizens.

Do I love America? In and of itself?  Not really. I am not fond of  imperial colonial nation-states in general, not just America. I  have to work with what I have, though. 

Yes, tribes sometimes fought...like everyone else on the planet. We never wiped out any of our neighbors around here in this region,though, and we often settled differences with games or rituals  instead of fighting .That has no equivalency to modern nation-states waging total war on each other with modern weapons.

No, you are no responsible for what happened to natives and I don't blame you for it...but you didn't read my post...you have absolutely benefited from it. Admit that. I don't see you giving your land back to the tribe and leaving. I know you probably can't...but The land you live on is stolen. The fact that I know that and choose not to forget it may make me some kind of unforgiving hater who is living in the past in your mind....that's your problem. I don't spend the energy to hate anyone, but I don't let them whitewash (literally) the past. If your " native friends" do...they are not like any natives I know, so  their opinions are irrelevant to me. You can't have a better future unless you are honest about your past. As far as working "to make America better for all Americans"...some of the things I do probably will....but most of my time is consumed with making  things better for my own darn people because it's their culture, language, land,health, and well-being as a specific group that is endangered at present. Most tribally-centered inculturated natives spend a lot of their time doing that. 

Yes, the America of the past  directly affects the America of the present...that  Pipeline is a great example. One of many. The native activists have a copy of the appropriate Treaty in their camps. That will likely figure in the court case.

Personally, I'd also like to say...what's past? I had to get the civil rights board   to deal with the local schools for racial abuse of my children and we just got out of court after dealing with  a land-theft case against some settlers. Just for two examples.

If you think America became "great "because of "love and creativity", then I would like to know your definition of " great". If you mean prosperous and powerful, then your understanding of American history is very different from mine and, I'd say, many other Americans of any ethnicity who are honest about the issue.

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@Christianlady, since when was America founded on "love and creativity"? I didn't get that memo in history class.  No, we were founded in a revolution where fathers and sons, brothers, friends and neighbors were killing each other over who they supported politically.  Nothing loving or creative about the American Revolution. 

 

I do not like the condescending tone in your post to LeftCoastMom either and I think you would understand her better if you took off the rose-tinted glasses when comes to the history of the United States.  We today benefit from the extermination, enslavement and oppression of the many natives by the pioneers of the United States...

It's sad but true and not something that you should sweep under the proverbial rug.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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^ well, I have had a challenging day and have written two soapboxes and a rant...lol. I should probably just chill out. 

The lady at the store  just going off pontificating about my son in law when she saw him with DD was the last straw. 

On a humorous note: SG got his physical at the  school clinic and when he got the readout it said he was healthy...and had his ethnicity as " Hawaiian/ Pacific Islander". Somebody checked the wrong box...but he says some days he is tempted to go with that...lol. 

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Attention to non-Farsi speaking folks:

 

Imam Khomeini had a famous quote: امریکا هیچ غلطی نمیتواند بکند which is usually translated as "America cannot do a damned thing"

 

However, if you were to translate this quote literally, it would be: "America can do no wrong." Which, of course, conveys a very different meaning that what he was trying to express.

 

Basically, language has these subtleties. Taking a statement in a language, translating it in a way that may be accurate in the sense that it is literal (but inaccurate in that it does not convey the same meaning), and then projecting one's own misguided, ill-conceived views upon that statement... is just not intelligent and it's not gonna get you anywhere in life. So if anyone wants to do that, my message is: stop.

 

The chant of مرگ بر آمریکا (down with America) is not a standalone slogan. There is also, for example: مرگ بر ضد ولایت فقیه (down with those who oppose the guardianship of the jurisconsult). Now, if we are following the logic that this slogan is LITERALLY wishing death, then why do the people who use it not put it into practice with regard to those who oppose the guardianship? After all, people are free to disagree with the guardianship; they are free to express this disagreement publicly, so long as they are not taking to the streets and using that as an excuse to make sedition. Hence, there are many books and articles publicly and freely disseminated which express this anti-guardianship view. So where are the killings? Show me the killings. There is no such phenomenon of course.

 

 

At the end of the day, some folks will just continue to "understand" the world the way they wish to understand it, regardless of how much rational sense it does or does not make.

Edited by baradar_jackson

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4 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

If people said " Death to my tribe" I would do exactly as I said ...figure out why they were saying that. Usually, with the genocidal Anericans...it did mean wiping all of us out, but that does not seem to be what the people here are saying...so it's apples and oranges and a false equivalency.

Salam LeftCoastMom,

Thanks for sort of answering my question.

Death = death and is a curse to say to anyone or any group, no matter to whom one says it.

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Do I consider myself an American? What choice do I have since  the Citizenship Act imposed it?  Some tribes did not want it and a couple still do not accept it and their members only vote in tribal elections and try to travel on their own tribally-issued passports and tribal ID's. They do not consider themselves Americans but citizens of their tribal nations. The rest of us consider ourselves sort of dual citizens.

Ok so I have learned something new; that some Natives don't even want to be Americans. Interesting. Many people come to the USA from all over the world to immigrate to the USA, yet many Natives don't want to be American.

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Do I love America? In and of itself?  Not really. I am not fond of  imperial colonial nation-states in general, not just America. I  have to work with what I have, though. 

Thanks for answering my question.  I do love America for what she has become due to American people being from different ethnic groups from all over the world, from different religions and cultures uniting together as one nation. :)

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Yes, tribes sometimes fought...like everyone else on the planet.

True.

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We never wiped out any of our neighbors around here in this region,though, and we often settled differences with games or rituals  instead of fighting .That has no equivalency to modern nation-states waging total war on each other with modern weapons.

Its possible that if Natives had modern weapons, they could have fought off those with modern weapons. While I personally am a pacifist and believe fighting is disobeying Jesus Christ, obviously many Christians don't hold to that view and have sadly invented many weapons that are more deadly than bows/arrows, and spears. :(

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No, you are no responsible for what happened to natives and I don't blame you for it...but you didn't read my post...you have absolutely benefited from it. Admit that. 

I admit that I have benefited from what happened to natives. However, I am horrified and ashamed of what European immigrants and early Americans did to Natives, including what Christians did who disobeyed Jesus Christ's commands to love neighbors as oneself.

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I don't see you giving your land back to the tribe and leaving.

 

I don't have land. My hubby and I don't even own the house we rent lol.  And, the USA is where I was born. I wasn't born in England or Iran or Saudi Arabia or anywhere else.

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I know you probably can't...

I definitely can't; no probably about it.

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but The land you live on is stolen.

Most land is stolen, Egypt is stolen land; the Arabs stole it from the Copts.  Should all the Arabs be expelled from Egypt and all their land given to the Copts?

My Coptic friends who immigrated to the USA (and they love the USA) from Egypt don't appreciate what the Arabs have done to "their" land, which is one reason why they immigrated. Another reason is because they have more opportunities and freedoms here than they do in their home country where their ancestors lived.
 

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The fact that I know that and choose not to forget it may make me some kind of unforgiving hater who is living in the past in your mind....that's your problem.

 

Do you forgive, like Jesus Christ said?

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I don't spend the energy to hate anyone, but I don't let them whitewash (literally) the past.If your " native friends" do...they are not like any natives I know, so  their opinions are irrelevant to me.

They don't "whitewash" the past, but they don't live in the past; they have forgiven the past because they love their fellow Americans. They don't hold the past over the head of every white American.

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You can't have a better future unless you are honest about your past.

Agreed. Have I ever denied the evil done to Native Americans?

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As far as working "to make America better for all Americans"...some of the things I do probably will....but most of my time is consumed with making  things better for my own darn people because it's their culture, language, land,health, and well-being as a specific group that is endangered at present. Most tribally-centered inculturated natives spend a lot of their time doing that. Yes, the America of the past  directly affects the America of the present...that  Pipeline is a great example. One of many. The native activists have a copy of the appropriate Treaty in their camps. That will likely figure in the court case.

Protecting the water helps every American, no matter their ethnicity and origin.

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Personally, I'd also like to say...what's past? I had to get the civil rights board   to deal with the local schools for racial abuse of my children and we just got out of court after dealing with  a land-theft case against some settlers. Just for two examples.

It used to be a lot worse, sadly.

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If you think America became "great "because of "love and creativity", then I would like to know your definition of " great". f you mean prosperous and powerful, then your understanding of American history is very different from mine and, I'd say, many other Americans of any ethnicity who are honest about the issue.

Great is being able to unite together as a nation to enjoy the  freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, and the ability to invent such amazing inventions such as airplane to air conditioning to the Internet.

The inventions that American people have made have made life better and easier for people around the world, and how did they do that? Out of love for learning and the ability to be creative.

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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3 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

@Christianlady, since when was America founded on "love and creativity"? I didn't get that memo in history class.  No, we were founded in a revolution where fathers and sons, brothers, friends and neighbors were killing each other over who they supported politically.  Nothing loving or creative about the American Revolution. 

Salam Gaius l. Caesar,

This is why words matter. I did not say anything about America being founded sigh. I said, "The USA didn't become a great nation because of hatred, but because of love and creativity." There's a difference between founded and "become a great nation." They don't mean the same thing.

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I do not like the condescending tone in your post to LeftCoastMom either

Do you even like most anything that I write to anybody? Of course you describe my "tone" negatively; that's no surprise to me or anybody else lol.
 

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and I think you would understand her better if you took off the rose-tinted glasses when comes to the history of the United States.  We today benefit from the extermination, enslavement and oppression of the many natives by the pioneers of the United States...

It's sad but true and not something that you should sweep under the proverbial rug.

 

Again, when have I ever denied the evil done to Native Americans? There's a reason I believe Jesus Christ meant what He commands about loving neighbors as oneself. Yes, you and I benefit from what happened to the Native Americans, same as Arabs in Egypt today benefited from what their ancestors did to the Copts.

In 642 AD, the Arabs conquered Egypt, under the leadership of Amr Ibn al-Aas, a famous Arab military commander and companion of Islam’s Prophet Muhammad. The Arab invaders forced Egyptians to choose between embracing Islam, being killed, or paying a Jizyah* tax. Christians who opted not to renounce their faith were forced to pay a Jizyah.

http://www.copticsolidarity.org/2016/07/08/from-the-arab-invasion-to-the-arab-spring-christians-in-egypt-a-minority-under-siege-and-persecution/

Are Arabs today proud of it? I don't know. I'm not proud of what European immigrants and early Americans did to the Natives. :(God will judge them for the evil they did to the Natives.

I do love the great nation that the USA has become, due to love for freedom, love of learning, and creativity.

Peace and God bless you

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3 hours ago, notme said:

@Christianlady "love and creativity"? Are you serious? 

Salam Notme,

Yes, I do believe that the USA became a great nation because of love: love for freedom, love for learning, and creativity - hence all the inventions American people have made and which people around the world enjoy, including people who hate America. 

Out of curiosity, do you believe the USA is a great nation? I do. That's why I tell Trump supporters that the USA already is "great" ... he does not hold the keys to making it "great again" because American people make it great (including you and Muslim Americans who love their country. :) That's one reason why it's wrong to ban Muslims - because Muslim Americans who love the USA, even those who have immigrated here from far away, contribute in making America great because of their love (for freedom) and creativity.

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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