Thoughts 2016-2017 (Archives)

[Christianlady]

1 minute ago, LeftCoastMom said:

(LCM puts out soapbox) lol

^ When I discuss the USA I use almost the exact same words that @IbnSina does. It is a country founded on genocide and slavery. Whoever does not want to hear that simply does not want to look at the truth and is no better than a Holocaust denier in my eyes.  

Salam LeftCoastMom,

Do you wish that you were not an American? 
 

Quote

 

"My fellow Americans "who are not native and who have any brains or hearts at all know what my family suffered and what their family gained from it. 

America is not " my tribe". America is an empire that sits on top of my tribe at present. .

 

Do you love the USA, or America, as some people call it. (My hubby thinks it's funny when people from the USA monopolize "America" since his family is from South America.

Do you consider yourself an American?

While America is not my tribe, America is my country. I did not invade your people or your tribe. I wasn't alive. I am ashamed that Europeans and early Americans did invade your people, but again, i wasn't there. I wasn't alive then. I wish your tribe well. I don't want death to your tribe. Why would I?

Do you blame the present America for what happened in the past???

You did not answer my question. My question was:

Quote

 Would you read it as wanting death to you if someone said "Death" to your tribe?

Personally, I think that anybody who would say "death" to your tribe or any other tribe or people group or nation or country is a person filled with hatred. That is evil and wrong, and I would protest anybody who said or brought death to your tribe.

Quote

You did noI don't equate the two. If my tribe were capable of invading and laying waste to another country at will then  I guess I would have to hear the hate coming from them and accept that they had a legitimate grievance against us. As it is....it's only been a few generations since we were " terrorists".

 

If your tribe were capable of invading other tribes, would they do it? Why or why not?

Doesn't Native tribal history include tribes attacking each other?

Most Americans nowadays don't attack and kill Native Americans. 

My Native American friends don't live in hatred and bitterness against other Americans; they have forgiven the past and have joined the present, making the future better for all Americans.

 

Quote

If perchance China invaded the US , destroyed its government, and killed millions of citizens...including children and babies, you'd hear plenty of "hate speech". Look what happened after Pearl Harbor with the Japanese. 

True. However, it is wrong for Americans to hate Japanese people, and it was evil for the USA to nuke Japan.

Quote

Some of these  folks have been invaded, bombed, had their homes destroyed, and had their kids murdered by the US empire. I can't expect them or their relatives to use soft words with us. It hurts to hear it, but our government has hurt them far more than they will likely ever hurt me. 

I understand why they use it, but it just shows hatred. There are many reasons to hate people, and one of those reasons is injustice. If people want to hate, they can hate. However, wishing death on a nation isn't going to make anything better for them. The USA didn't become a great nation because of hatred, but because of love and creativity.

Quote

" Hate speech" , as you phrase it, pales in comparison to what we have done to them.

If they could, do you think they wouldn't invade the USA?

Quote

They even have every reason to hate Americans as individuals , but most of them don't.  I can parse that even through the slogans. The fact that they don't hate all of us speaks volumes about their own capacity to separate  the actions of governments from people and to have enough heart not to hate me as a citizen of the nation that ravaged them.

Agreed.

Quote

 

So I will  personally take their  angered speech ( I'm not going to indulge myself in any " fragile Americanism") and say " I'm sorry. I tried to stop it. I hope you believe that.  I failed you. I will do what I can as long as I draw breath to get justice for you and to turn this country to better ways."

It's a p*ss-poor apology ,but it's what I have.

 

There's nothing wrong in apologizing, and I apologize to Muslims for what the USA has done to the their countries all the time. I wish the USA hadn't done what it did, but American leaders didn't ask me.

Quote

If I want  " America" to live...it's  the parts of America that marches down the streets against dirty wars in spite of the police blockades, fights to protect rivers and the rest of the good green earth, and pushes the government to feed, educate, and provide for its citizens instead of bombing everyone else's. I can only hope the citizens of other countries are doing the same.

Amen.

Quote

(okay, I'll get off my soapbox now.)

 

Lol.

I'd really appreciate it if you would answer my questions when you have time. Thanks.

Peace and God bless you

[LeftCoastMom]

Two things I have decided I am officially tired of in the dominant culture:

1. Being asked where  and how my son in law was raised ....presumably to ascertain whether or not he is dangerous to my daughter.

( First of all...Are we talking about a man or a pit bull puppy? Secondly...one of the most  gender equality loving fellows I know was born and raised in freaking Saudi Arabia and some of the worst wife abusers I know are Americans. So I get their concern but why does the fact that he's an American  citizen  that has spent a lot of time in the States give him a clean bill of mental health? People are complex intelligent beings able to evaluate their upbringing and environments.)

2. Being told, after you inform them that you might be visiting  ANY middle eastern nation, that you are so very brave for venturing into such a "  backwards, war-torn country" to see your in-laws,but should you really risk your family's life like that? 

Finally, at the risk of sounding racist....why are so many white  American women holding themselves out as experts on middle eastern males?  As far as I can tell, they have not had relationships with them. Is there a course somewhere they all  take? I guess I'm not the correct heritage to get that memo.

[LeftCoastMom]

On 8/30/2016 at 8:27 PM, Christianlady said:

Salam LeftCoastMom,

Do you wish that you were not an American? 
 

Do you love the USA, or America, as some people call it. (My hubby thinks it's funny when people from the USA monopolize "America" since his family is from South America.

Do you consider yourself an American?

While America is not my tribe, America is my country. I did not invade your people or your tribe. I wasn't alive. I am ashamed that Europeans and early Americans did invade your people, but again, i wasn't there. I wasn't alive then. I wish your tribe well. I don't want death to your tribe. Why would I?

Do you blame the present America for what happened in the past???

You did not answer my question. My question was:

Personally, I think that anybody who would say "death" to your tribe or any other tribe or people group or nation or country is a person filled with hatred. That is evil and wrong, and I would protest anybody who said or brought death to your tribe.

If your tribe were capable of invading other tribes, would they do it? Why or why not?

Doesn't Native tribal history include tribes attacking each other?

Most Americans nowadays don't attack and kill Native Americans. 

My Native American friends don't live in hatred and bitterness against other Americans; they have forgiven the past and have joined the present, making the future better for all Americans.

 

True. However, it is wrong for Americans to hate Japanese people, and it was evil for the USA to nuke Japan.

I understand why they use it, but it just shows hatred. There are many reasons to hate people, and one of those reasons is injustice. If people want to hate, they can hate. However, wishing death on a nation isn't going to make anything better for them. The USA didn't become a great nation because of hatred, but because of love and creativity.

If they could, do you think they wouldn't invade the USA?

Agreed.

There's nothing wrong in apologizing, and I apologize to Muslims for what the USA has done to the their countries all the time. I wish the USA hadn't done what it did, but American leaders didn't ask me.

Amen.

Lol.

I'd really appreciate it if you would answer my questions when you have time. Thanks.

Peace and God bless you

If people said " Death to my tribe" I would do exactly as I said ...figure out why they were saying that. Usually, with the genocidal Anericans...it did mean wiping all of us out, but that does not seem to be what the people here are saying...so it's apples and oranges and a false equivalency.

Do I consider myself an American? What choice do I have since  the Citizenship Act imposed it?  Some tribes did not want it and a couple still do not accept it and their members only vote in tribal elections and try to travel on their own tribally-issued passports and tribal ID's. They do not consider themselves Americans but citizens of their tribal nations. The rest of us consider ourselves sort of dual citizens.

Do I love America? In and of itself?  Not really. I am not fond of  imperial colonial nation-states in general, not just America. I  have to work with what I have, though. 

Yes, tribes sometimes fought...like everyone else on the planet. We never wiped out any of our neighbors around here in this region,though, and we often settled differences with games or rituals  instead of fighting .That has no equivalency to modern nation-states waging total war on each other with modern weapons.

No, you are no responsible for what happened to natives and I don't blame you for it...but you didn't read my post...you have absolutely benefited from it. Admit that. I don't see you giving your land back to the tribe and leaving. I know you probably can't...but The land you live on is stolen. The fact that I know that and choose not to forget it may make me some kind of unforgiving hater who is living in the past in your mind....that's your problem. I don't spend the energy to hate anyone, but I don't let them whitewash (literally) the past. If your " native friends" do...they are not like any natives I know, so  their opinions are irrelevant to me. You can't have a better future unless you are honest about your past. As far as working "to make America better for all Americans"...some of the things I do probably will....but most of my time is consumed with making  things better for my own darn people because it's their culture, language, land,health, and well-being as a specific group that is endangered at present. Most tribally-centered inculturated natives spend a lot of their time doing that. 

Yes, the America of the past  directly affects the America of the present...that  Pipeline is a great example. One of many. The native activists have a copy of the appropriate Treaty in their camps. That will likely figure in the court case.

Personally, I'd also like to say...what's past? I had to get the civil rights board   to deal with the local schools for racial abuse of my children and we just got out of court after dealing with  a land-theft case against some settlers. Just for two examples.

If you think America became "great "because of "love and creativity", then I would like to know your definition of " great". If you mean prosperous and powerful, then your understanding of American history is very different from mine and, I'd say, many other Americans of any ethnicity who are honest about the issue.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

@Christianlady, since when was America founded on "love and creativity"? I didn't get that memo in history class.  No, we were founded in a revolution where fathers and sons, brothers, friends and neighbors were killing each other over who they supported politically.  Nothing loving or creative about the American Revolution. 

 

I do not like the condescending tone in your post to LeftCoastMom either and I think you would understand her better if you took off the rose-tinted glasses when comes to the history of the United States.  We today benefit from the extermination, enslavement and oppression of the many natives by the pioneers of the United States...

It's sad but true and not something that you should sweep under the proverbial rug.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Gaius I. Caesar

[LeftCoastMom]

^ well, I have had a challenging day and have written two soapboxes and a rant...lol. I should probably just chill out. 

The lady at the store  just going off pontificating about my son in law when she saw him with DD was the last straw. 

On a humorous note: SG got his physical at the  school clinic and when he got the readout it said he was healthy...and had his ethnicity as " Hawaiian/ Pacific Islander". Somebody checked the wrong box...but he says some days he is tempted to go with that...lol. 

[notme]

@Christianlady "love and creativity"? Are you serious? 

[baradar_jackson]

Attention to non-Farsi speaking folks:

 

Imam Khomeini had a famous quote: امریکا هیچ غلطی نمیتواند بکند which is usually translated as "America cannot do a damned thing"

 

However, if you were to translate this quote literally, it would be: "America can do no wrong." Which, of course, conveys a very different meaning that what he was trying to express.

 

Basically, language has these subtleties. Taking a statement in a language, translating it in a way that may be accurate in the sense that it is literal (but inaccurate in that it does not convey the same meaning), and then projecting one's own misguided, ill-conceived views upon that statement... is just not intelligent and it's not gonna get you anywhere in life. So if anyone wants to do that, my message is: stop.

 

The chant of مرگ بر آمریکا (down with America) is not a standalone slogan. There is also, for example: مرگ بر ضد ولایت فقیه (down with those who oppose the guardianship of the jurisconsult). Now, if we are following the logic that this slogan is LITERALLY wishing death, then why do the people who use it not put it into practice with regard to those who oppose the guardianship? After all, people are free to disagree with the guardianship; they are free to express this disagreement publicly, so long as they are not taking to the streets and using that as an excuse to make sedition. Hence, there are many books and articles publicly and freely disseminated which express this anti-guardianship view. So where are the killings? Show me the killings. There is no such phenomenon of course.

 

 

At the end of the day, some folks will just continue to "understand" the world the way they wish to understand it, regardless of how much rational sense it does or does not make.

Edited August 31, 2016 by baradar_jackson

[Christianlady]

4 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

If people said " Death to my tribe" I would do exactly as I said ...figure out why they were saying that. Usually, with the genocidal Anericans...it did mean wiping all of us out, but that does not seem to be what the people here are saying...so it's apples and oranges and a false equivalency.

Salam LeftCoastMom,

Thanks for sort of answering my question.

Death = death and is a curse to say to anyone or any group, no matter to whom one says it.

Quote

Do I consider myself an American? What choice do I have since  the Citizenship Act imposed it?  Some tribes did not want it and a couple still do not accept it and their members only vote in tribal elections and try to travel on their own tribally-issued passports and tribal ID's. They do not consider themselves Americans but citizens of their tribal nations. The rest of us consider ourselves sort of dual citizens.

Ok so I have learned something new; that some Natives don't even want to be Americans. Interesting. Many people come to the USA from all over the world to immigrate to the USA, yet many Natives don't want to be American.

Quote

Do I love America? In and of itself?  Not really. I am not fond of  imperial colonial nation-states in general, not just America. I  have to work with what I have, though. 

Thanks for answering my question.  I do love America for what she has become due to American people being from different ethnic groups from all over the world, from different religions and cultures uniting together as one nation.

Quote

Yes, tribes sometimes fought...like everyone else on the planet.

True.

Quote

We never wiped out any of our neighbors around here in this region,though, and we often settled differences with games or rituals  instead of fighting .That has no equivalency to modern nation-states waging total war on each other with modern weapons.

Its possible that if Natives had modern weapons, they could have fought off those with modern weapons. While I personally am a pacifist and believe fighting is disobeying Jesus Christ, obviously many Christians don't hold to that view and have sadly invented many weapons that are more deadly than bows/arrows, and spears.

Quote

No, you are no responsible for what happened to natives and I don't blame you for it...but you didn't read my post...you have absolutely benefited from it. Admit that. 

I admit that I have benefited from what happened to natives. However, I am horrified and ashamed of what European immigrants and early Americans did to Natives, including what Christians did who disobeyed Jesus Christ's commands to love neighbors as oneself.

Quote

I don't see you giving your land back to the tribe and leaving.

 

I don't have land. My hubby and I don't even own the house we rent lol.  And, the USA is where I was born. I wasn't born in England or Iran or Saudi Arabia or anywhere else.

Quote

I know you probably can't...

I definitely can't; no probably about it.

Quote

but The land you live on is stolen.

Most land is stolen, Egypt is stolen land; the Arabs stole it from the Copts.  Should all the Arabs be expelled from Egypt and all their land given to the Copts?

My Coptic friends who immigrated to the USA (and they love the USA) from Egypt don't appreciate what the Arabs have done to "their" land, which is one reason why they immigrated. Another reason is because they have more opportunities and freedoms here than they do in their home country where their ancestors lived.
 

Quote

The fact that I know that and choose not to forget it may make me some kind of unforgiving hater who is living in the past in your mind....that's your problem.

 

Do you forgive, like Jesus Christ said?

Quote

I don't spend the energy to hate anyone, but I don't let them whitewash (literally) the past.If your " native friends" do...they are not like any natives I know, so  their opinions are irrelevant to me.

They don't "whitewash" the past, but they don't live in the past; they have forgiven the past because they love their fellow Americans. They don't hold the past over the head of every white American.

Quote

You can't have a better future unless you are honest about your past.

Agreed. Have I ever denied the evil done to Native Americans?

Quote

As far as working "to make America better for all Americans"...some of the things I do probably will....but most of my time is consumed with making  things better for my own darn people because it's their culture, language, land,health, and well-being as a specific group that is endangered at present. Most tribally-centered inculturated natives spend a lot of their time doing that. Yes, the America of the past  directly affects the America of the present...that  Pipeline is a great example. One of many. The native activists have a copy of the appropriate Treaty in their camps. That will likely figure in the court case.

Protecting the water helps every American, no matter their ethnicity and origin.

Quote

Personally, I'd also like to say...what's past? I had to get the civil rights board   to deal with the local schools for racial abuse of my children and we just got out of court after dealing with  a land-theft case against some settlers. Just for two examples.

It used to be a lot worse, sadly.

Quote

If you think America became "great "because of "love and creativity", then I would like to know your definition of " great". f you mean prosperous and powerful, then your understanding of American history is very different from mine and, I'd say, many other Americans of any ethnicity who are honest about the issue.

Great is being able to unite together as a nation to enjoy the  freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, and the ability to invent such amazing inventions such as airplane to air conditioning to the Internet.

The inventions that American people have made have made life better and easier for people around the world, and how did they do that? Out of love for learning and the ability to be creative.

Peace and God bless you

Edited August 31, 2016 by Christianlady

[Christianlady]

3 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

@Christianlady, since when was America founded on "love and creativity"? I didn't get that memo in history class.  No, we were founded in a revolution where fathers and sons, brothers, friends and neighbors were killing each other over who they supported politically.  Nothing loving or creative about the American Revolution. 

Salam Gaius l. Caesar,

This is why words matter. I did not say anything about America being founded sigh. I said, "The USA didn't become a great nation because of hatred, but because of love and creativity." There's a difference between founded and "become a great nation." They don't mean the same thing.

Quote

I do not like the condescending tone in your post to LeftCoastMom either

Do you even like most anything that I write to anybody? Of course you describe my "tone" negatively; that's no surprise to me or anybody else lol.
 

Quote

 

and I think you would understand her better if you took off the rose-tinted glasses when comes to the history of the United States.  We today benefit from the extermination, enslavement and oppression of the many natives by the pioneers of the United States...

It's sad but true and not something that you should sweep under the proverbial rug.

 

Again, when have I ever denied the evil done to Native Americans? There's a reason I believe Jesus Christ meant what He commands about loving neighbors as oneself. Yes, you and I benefit from what happened to the Native Americans, same as Arabs in Egypt today benefited from what their ancestors did to the Copts.

In 642 AD, the Arabs conquered Egypt, under the leadership of Amr Ibn al-Aas, a famous Arab military commander and companion of Islam’s Prophet Muhammad. The Arab invaders forced Egyptians to choose between embracing Islam, being killed, or paying a Jizyah* tax. Christians who opted not to renounce their faith were forced to pay a Jizyah.

http://www.copticsolidarity.org/2016/07/08/from-the-arab-invasion-to-the-arab-spring-christians-in-egypt-a-minority-under-siege-and-persecution/

Are Arabs today proud of it? I don't know. I'm not proud of what European immigrants and early Americans did to the Natives. God will judge them for the evil they did to the Natives.

I do love the great nation that the USA has become, due to love for freedom, love of learning, and creativity.

Peace and God bless you

[Christianlady]

3 hours ago, notme said:

@Christianlady "love and creativity"? Are you serious? 

Salam Notme,

Yes, I do believe that the USA became a great nation because of love: love for freedom, love for learning, and creativity - hence all the inventions American people have made and which people around the world enjoy, including people who hate America. 

Out of curiosity, do you believe the USA is a great nation? I do. That's why I tell Trump supporters that the USA already is "great" ... he does not hold the keys to making it "great again" because American people make it great (including you and Muslim Americans who love their country. That's one reason why it's wrong to ban Muslims - because Muslim Americans who love the USA, even those who have immigrated here from far away, contribute in making America great because of their love (for freedom) and creativity.

Peace and God bless you

Edited August 31, 2016 by Christianlady

[Pearl178]

Tired of exhausting all my energy to get my teenage sis to pray (especially when im not getting any support from other family members). Its time to take out the stick and drag her by the ear to the prayer mat. No other option.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Pearl178

[Gaius I. Caesar]

1 hour ago, Christianlady said:

Salam Gaius l. Caesar,

This is why words matter. I did not say anything about America being founded sigh. I said, "The USA didn't become a great nation because of hatred, but because of love and creativity." There's a difference between founded and "become a great nation." They don't mean the same thing.

Do you even like most anything that I write to anybody? Of course you describe my "tone" negatively; that's no surprise to me or anybody else lol.
 

Again, when have I ever denied the evil done to Native Americans? There's a reason I believe Jesus Christ meant what He commands about loving neighbors as oneself. Yes, you and I benefit from what happened to the Native Americans, same as Arabs in Egypt today benefited from what their ancestors did to the Copts.

In 642 AD, the Arabs conquered Egypt, under the leadership of Amr Ibn al-Aas, a famous Arab military commander and companion of Islam’s Prophet Muhammad. The Arab invaders forced Egyptians to choose between embracing Islam, being killed, or paying a Jizyah* tax. Christians who opted not to renounce their faith were forced to pay a Jizyah.

http://www.copticsolidarity.org/2016/07/08/from-the-arab-invasion-to-the-arab-spring-christians-in-egypt-a-minority-under-siege-and-persecution/

Are Arabs today proud of it? I don't know. I'm not proud of what European immigrants and early Americans did to the Natives. God will judge them for the evil they did to the Natives.

I do love the great nation that the USA has become, due to love for freedom, love of learning, and creativity.

Peace and God bless you

Yes, we had our moments of creativity and maybe not love but definitely tolerance but the fact remains is that violence is a part of our history. You say that you don't deny it but whenever the subject of the mistreatment towards the natives in our history is discussed, you seem to be downplaying the horrors that happened.

Yes, I agree- words do matter and I don't really understand why you are trying to deflect your bad wording on me. I misunderstood and got the impression that you were saying that America was founded on "love and creativity", which isn't true.

That's on me but had your wording been better and clearer, I would not have misunderstood you. As for America becoming great because creativity and love,  I agree but I disagree with that statement at the same time.

We became "great" through violence, imperialism, segregation, greed and oppressing others too. I find it dishonest when people talk about love and tolerance, then turn around and lecture those who actually been wronged for using less than tolerant and forgiving words.

LeftCoastMom is not living in the past, she bears no ill will towards you but the US government still treats many native Americans like second class citizens today as a result of actions that have happened in the past.

Decisions that were decided in the past 150 years of history that continue affect people today is not living in the past.  So I don't know where you were going with that when you said  that your Native American friends  "don't hold it over the heads of white Americans". What does that even mean, please explain.

You know very well that I don't like your lecturing, preachy tone towards us at times and right now, after reading everything you  wrote, I feel sick to my stomach and at a loss for words. 

Yes, America is a "great" nation and like all nations, is built on suffering of others. Please don't downplay or marginalize the dark side of American history. 

 

[Ali al-Abdullah]

6 hours ago, Christianlady said:

 

In 642 AD, the Arabs conquered Egypt, under the leadership of Amr Ibn al-Aas, a famous Arab military commander and companion of Islam’s Prophet Muhammad. The Arab invaders forced Egyptians to choose between embracing Islam, being killed, or paying a Jizyah* tax. Christians who opted not to renounce their faith were forced to pay a Jizyah.

http://www.copticsolidarity.org/2016/07/08/from-the-arab-invasion-to-the-arab-spring-christians-in-egypt-a-minority-under-siege-and-persecution/

Hello. Amr ibn al 'As (la) was a pagan idol worshipper and converted to Islam by political reasons. He was at first a staunch enemy of the Holy Prophet (pbuh&f) and Islam but he later converted just like many of the pagan Arabs after a while for fame and power. We Shias hate him. Just wanted to let you know.

[Christianlady]

5 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Yes, we had our moments of creativity and maybe not love but definitely tolerance but the fact remains is that violence is a part of our history. You say that you don't deny it but whenever the subject of the mistreatment towards the natives in our history is discussed, you seem to be downplaying the horrors that happened.

Yes, I agree- words do matter and I don't really understand why you are trying to deflect your bad wording on me. I misunderstood and got the impression that you were saying that America was founded on "love and creativity", which isn't true.

That's on me but had your wording been better and clearer, I would not have misunderstood you. As for America becoming great because creativity and love,  I agree but I disagree with that statement at the same time.

We became "great" through violence, imperialism, segregation, greed and oppressing others too. I find it dishonest when people talk about love and tolerance, then turn around and lecture those who actually been wronged for using less than tolerant and forgiving words.

LeftCoastMom is not living in the past, she bears no ill will towards you but the US government still treats many native Americans like second class citizens today as a result of actions that have happened in the past.

Decisions that were decided in the past 150 years of history that continue affect people today is not living in the past.  So I don't know where you were going with that when you said  that your Native American friends  "don't hold it over the heads of white Americans". What does that even mean, please explain.

You know very well that I don't like your lecturing, preachy tone towards us at times and right now, after reading everything you  wrote, I feel sick to my stomach and at a loss for words. 

Yes, America is a "great" nation and like all nations, is built on suffering of others. Please don't downplay or marginalize the dark side of American history. 

 

Salam Gaius l Caesar,

Again, I have never denied the evil things the early European immigrants and early Americans did to the Natives. Again, I believe God will judge them. My Native American friends don't hold white Americans of today responsible (don't hold it over the heads of white Americans) for the crimes of white Americans in the past. I'm grateful.

I am sorry I upset you and LeftCoastMom. It was not my intention. It is best if I leave you both in peace, so I will no longer write either you or LeftCoastMom, since it just seems to annoy y'all when I do.

May God greatly bless y'all with His amazing love, peace, wonderful lives, and all the best!!!

Peace

 

[Christianlady]

45 minutes ago, Ali al-Abdullah said:

Hello. Amr ibn al 'As (la) was a pagan idol worshipper and converted to Islam by political reasons. He was at first a staunch enemy of the Holy Prophet (pbuh&f) and Islam but he later converted just like many of the pagan Arabs after a while for fame and power. We Shias hate him. Just wanted to let you know.

Salam Ali al-Abdullah,

Thanks for letting me know. My Coptic friends don't have a problem as far as I know with Shia Muslims, but rather with the Sunni Muslims who persecute them. One reason why they immigrated to the USA is to have a better life than they currently can in the country of their ancestors. There are some Sunni Muslims in Egypt who do want to expel all the Copts. Other Sunni Muslims aren't violent towards them though, and strive to live together in peace.

Peace and God bless you

 

 

[Ali al-Abdullah]

Just now, Christianlady said:

Salam Ali al-Abdullah,

Thanks for letting me know. My Coptic friends don't have a problem as far as I know with Shia Muslims, but rather with the Sunni Muslims who persecute them. One reason why they immigrated to the USA is to have a better life than they currently can in the country of their ancestors. There are some Sunni Muslims in Egypt who do want to expel all the Copts. Other Sunni Muslims aren't violent towards them though, and strive to live together in peace.

Peace and God bless you

 

 

No problem 

[LeftCoastMom]

51 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

Salam Gaius l Caesar,

Again, I have never denied the evil things the early European immigrants and early Americans did to the Natives. Again, I believe God will judge them. My Native American friends don't hold white Americans of today responsible (don't hold it over the heads of white Americans) for the crimes of white Americans in the past. I'm grateful.

I am sorry I upset you and LeftCoastMom. It was not my intention. It is best if I leave you both in peace, so I will no longer write either you or LeftCoastMom, since it just seems to annoy y'all when I do.

May God greatly bless y'all with His amazing love, peace, wonderful lives, and all the best!!!

Peace

 

 

8 hours ago, Christianlady said:

Salam LeftCoastMom,

Thanks for sort of answering my question.

Death = death and is a curse to say to anyone or any group, no matter to whom one says it.

Ok so I have learned something new; that some Natives don't even want to be Americans. Interesting. Many people come to the USA from all over the world to immigrate to the USA, yet many Natives don't want to be American.

Thanks for answering my question.  I do love America for what she has become due to American people being from different ethnic groups from all over the world, from different religions and cultures uniting together as one nation.

True.

Its possible that if Natives had modern weapons, they could have fought off those with modern weapons. While I personally am a pacifist and believe fighting is disobeying Jesus Christ, obviously many Christians don't hold to that view and have sadly invented many weapons that are more deadly than bows/arrows, and spears.

I admit that I have benefited from what happened to natives. However, I am horrified and ashamed of what European immigrants and early Americans did to Natives, including what Christians did who disobeyed Jesus Christ's commands to love neighbors as oneself.

I don't have land. My hubby and I don't even own the house we rent lol.  And, the USA is where I was born. I wasn't born in England or Iran or Saudi Arabia or anywhere else.

I definitely can't; no probably about it.

Most land is stolen, Egypt is stolen land; the Arabs stole it from the Copts.  Should all the Arabs be expelled from Egypt and all their land given to the Copts?

My Coptic friends who immigrated to the USA (and they love the USA) from Egypt don't appreciate what the Arabs have done to "their" land, which is one reason why they immigrated. Another reason is because they have more opportunities and freedoms here than they do in their home country where their ancestors lived.
 

Do you forgive, like Jesus Christ said?

They don't "whitewash" the past, but they don't live in the past; they have forgiven the past because they love their fellow Americans. They don't hold the past over the head of every white American.

Agreed. Have I ever denied the evil done to Native Americans?

Protecting the water helps every American, no matter their ethnicity and origin.

It used to be a lot worse, sadly.

Great is being able to unite together as a nation to enjoy the  freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, and the ability to invent such amazing inventions such as airplane to air conditioning to the Internet.

The inventions that American people have made have made life better and easier for people around the world, and how did they do that? Out of love for learning and the ability to be creative.

Peace and God bless you

 Think it's debatable that America has " made life better" in a larger context for the native tribes it attempted to genocide. I could live without air conditioning and airplanes and the InterNet.. Easy. Just give the land back and watch. 

My ethnic group did not have "freedom of religion"... and the other stuff was highly truncated as well... until I was in college. You  apparently always had it, so I'm happy for you,

( Warning..,another rant ahead...lol!)

 

Just a few thoughts from a hateful. " living in the past " native here:

As to " forgiveness". Forgive who? The people who killed my family are dead now, as you pointed out. I  just want justice from their descendants. Why we're in court all the time.

Re: stolen land. Your landlord, likely not native, owns the land... Ergo...you have a place to live. I think  you know what is meant by that. " Most land is stolen" ..guess that makes it okay, then. . Maybe we should " steal" it back. Lol.

 

 

Wish  I could get a deal like Israel, don't you? Obtain weapons from a foreign power like, say, Russia or China, and proceed to remove all non-natives from our claimed traditional territory. What a concept! The settlers here don't even have any supposed ancestral ties  to this place. So no one should feel sorry for them at all. 

Fortunately, you will be happy to know, we DID steal, trade, or bought  the white peoples' weapons and killed enough of them to defend some land and keep it. That's why there are reservations and treaties in many instances. We are resourceful and pretty quickly used our enemies' technology against them. 

FYI...The new land we are  now adding to the reservation we bought fair and square ( no bullets involved) and many of the settlers are still  fighting us to keep us from enlarging the reservation.  Go figure. The other chunk was won back in court because it was taken illegally from tribal holdings ( again, no bullets necessary). They still hate us. We don't care. Business as usual.

Just curious....are any of your " native friends" involved in their tribal court cases, current issues,  or nations at all? How many are at Standing Rock? How come you learned about Standing Rock from me here on a Shia forum of all places? Didn't your " native friends" alert you to the crisis brewing in ndn country for months?

With all due respect, you know so little about basic things such as tribal sovereignty that I honestly wonder if  you really talk with them at all...or if they are major sell-outs( in which case they are generally useless to their communities) ...or more likely  just disinculturated  thinbloods or  no-bloods with imaginary " Cherokee princess" great-grandmas. There are lots of those and those  kind are generally ignorant of anything native and can usually be  found sucking up to white people for validation and telling them whatever they want to hear. 

They are  also incredibly useful oppression tools. They are dragged out at any hearing on any native issue by their white masters to try to muddle the waters or trip up whatever the natives are trying to do. Fortunately, they usually don't know enough except some Nuage nonsense to be much more than a bother to actual natives, and are easily disposed of in most formal  hearings or legal situations, but a bother they are.

It's true they don't live in the past because they don't have a past...at least not a native one. They usually are adult-onset Indians with a family mythology,whom, when the needle is put in their arms, produce zero percent native blood. Even if they have a little, it doesn't matter, they know nothing about native culture, history, or contemporary issues. They don't even know what tribe they are actually from or have any ties to one that a reasonable person would logically recognise.

I get tired of them. 

I know no actual natives at all that do not share at least some...actually most...of my feelings about the US. Not a single one. And I am part of a native community and know hundreds more. So your friends are interesting anomalies or you are misreading them...or , assuming they are actually native ...they are shining you on just to be polite,IMHO. Lol.

You seem to have a  convenient amorphous mass of " friends" of any ethnicity or religion who all seem to magically agree  with you that  you use to beat the rest of us over the head with. 

So..for the  record: No, I do not live in the past. sorry you seem to think that.. Anyone who knows me would laugh at that. I am very much involved in the present-day issues that face my people and, obviously, I am aware that solving some of those problems will benefit everyone. Yippee. Occasionally I even involve myself in non-native issues that will help everyone. It's just that that my community has needs much greater than the white community and so that necessarily takes up more of my time. Right now, for instance, one of the things I am doing is trying to save a challenged language because  a lot of our traditional  thought concepts are couched in it and I think my folks have a right to survive as a distinct people and not be just smushed into some brainless cultureless mass of " Americana" . Every native  around here feels the same way I do. Ergo, I make no apologies for that. One of my kids didn't work his rump off in high school to get the native scholarship for his university to study federal indian law for us to just become a brown version of white people. No way. Studied it to help us fight continuing  dominant culture assimilation tactics. 

We were here before America and we plan to be here after it. 

Hope this helps.

[LeftCoastMom]

@baradar_jackson Thanks for the clarification.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

5 hours ago, Christianlady said:

Salam Gaius l Caesar,

Again, I have never denied the evil things the early European immigrants and early Americans did to the Natives. Again, I believe God will judge them. My Native American friends don't hold white Americans of today responsible (don't hold it over the heads of white Americans) for the crimes of white Americans in the past. I'm grateful.

I am sorry I upset you and LeftCoastMom. It was not my intention. It is best if I leave you both in peace, so I will no longer write either you or LeftCoastMom, since it just seems to annoy y'all when I do.

May God greatly bless y'all with His amazing love, peace, wonderful lives, and all the best!!!

Peace

 

I see, it is probably for the best that you do not write back. However, I didn't say anything about you denying, rather I asked you twice to stop downplaying or marginalizing the violence of the past. 

Salaam. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by Gaius I. Caesar

[Soldiers and Saffron]

 

[ShiaMan14]

After a lot of thinking, I finally got the courage to cut the cord!!!

[Soldiers and Saffron]

9 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

After a lot of thinking, I finally got the courage to cut the cord!!!

Electrical cord?

In other thoughts:

Cheese smells like cheese but tastes like cheese.

Edited September 1, 2016 by IbnSina

[ShiaMan14]

9 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Electrical cord?

In other thoughts:

Cheese smells like cheese but tastes like cheese.

"Cutting the cord" - getting rid of cable/satellite TV. It's becoming a huge trend in the US with so many streaming options available.

Saving $75/mo    although my wife already has plans for the savings.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

"Cutting the cord" - getting rid of cable/satellite TV. It's becoming a huge trend in the US with so many streaming options available.

Saving $75/mo    although my wife already has plans for the savings.

looooooool.   

I read your post in the morning, got a bit concerned and thought about adding a reply about not cutting ties off with relatives..........

[ShiaMan14]

4 minutes ago, starlight said:

looooooool.   

I read your post in the morning, got a bit concerned and thought about adding a reply about not cutting ties off with relatives..........

lol. If I ever cut ties with my family, you have the permission to slap me around to make me come to my senses

 

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/cord-cutting-guide,news-17928.html

[notme]

Rocket exploded this morning during pre-launch testing. They don't know why yet. The destroyed payload included Israeli communication satellite. Initial reports indicate extensive damage to launch infrastructure but no injuries. Good that nobody was hurt or killed. It's an expensive loss though.

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/2016/20160901-falcon9-pad-explosion.html

 

 

[hasanhh]

9 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

"Cutting the cord" - getting rid of cable/satellite TV. It's becoming a huge trend in the US with so many streaming options available.

Saving $75/mo    although my wife already has plans for the savings.

Since when does "wife" and "saving" go together?

Now "hold" does. They "hold" it long enough to get to the store.

My ex hated money. She couldn't wait to get rid of it.

[ShiaChat Mod]

"Everyone's favorite bow-tied scientist is back with a Netflix series. Bill Nye is making a return to TV via a talk show, called Bill Nye Saves the World, set to debut in Spring, 2017." 

[Pearl178]

I want to be addicted to reality - I want it to be my drug. I no longer want my brain to have the freedom to wander in its own and switch to auto pilot. I want to always be aware of whats going on and have the ability to see through events. I am worried of falling into the dangerous trap of being complacent and stale at the mind level. I hope to elevate myself and become a realist.

 

Too many thoughts on this lazy Friday afternoon.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Pearl178

[Soldiers and Saffron]

Say: Oh Allah(SWT), I sacrifice my youth for you and to you, so that you may be pleased with me.

We are not here on dunya to be happy. Who promised you happiness on dunya that makes you feel disappointed and saddened for not getting it? Was it not said that we were created into hardship and trials?

For a believer this dunya is like a jail, a place of hardship and trials and jihad al Akbar but this life is short, just like the daytime before maghrib when you break your fast, you will get to break your fast soon iA and it will be worth it and you will be pleased with the feast.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

My condolences to you all on the martyrdom of our 9th imam, Imam Muhammad al-Jawad(as).

I want to share with you one of his hadtihs that I like a lot:

- Whosoever depends on God, God saves him from every evil.

Please send a salawat from the bottom of your heart to our holy Prophet and his Ahlul bayt and ask for our Imams(ajf) hastening! 

Edited September 2, 2016 by IbnSina

[Haimi]

Missing @laithAlIRAQI. Anyone's else?

Edited September 3, 2016 by Haimi

[Haimi]

Isn't it enough? Actually I think it's a miracle verse, more than many.

الفرقان
إِلَّا مَن تَابَ وَآمَنَ وَعَمِلَ عَمَلًا صَالِحًا فَأُولَٰئِكَ يُبَدِّلُ اللَّهُ سَيِّئَاتِهِمْ حَسَنَاتٍ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا
But if the wrongdoer repents and Believes and amends himself and does Good deeds Allah will replace his good Deeds for the bad ones since Allah is The Merciful Forgiving;(70) 

[Soldiers and Saffron]

Some pictures I found on an old SC members personal blog worth reflecting on:

                         
                                

 

[Gaius I. Caesar]

Just now, Haimi said:

Missing @laithAlIRAQI. Anyone's else?

Same here, I wonder what he was so bothered about. Allahu allam, still I am concerned about Laith , Haimi.