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In the Name of God بسم الله

What should women Muslims wear on the beaches?

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In the name of Allah.

In Islamic school of thought, a female is respected. She is treated as a human, not as a mannequin. 

All people must see her, talk to her, and communicate with her on the basis of her social role and her characteristic, not for just seeing her body.

Imagine a female person who goes to a picnic and is according to her mind free to wear (or not wear) every clothes she likes. If she gets a disease on her skin, others will dislike her body. It is because they looked at her with her beauty not as she was a citizen or basically a woman.

In Iran - which is an Islamic country and therefore wearing bikinis is forbidden in public places for women - they wear it on the shores in specific places which are prepared for swimming. Females go there and swim with bikinis. Some families have private villas near the beach and wear what they like. Even some families go to some parts of the beach where they are alone and do what they like.

Women and girls have special parks where they can freely walk, jog, exercise, and do sports without hijab.

So even in Islamic countries, it is possible for women to feel free on the beaches. But absolutely not as European countries at parks or beaches.

I think females in some parts of the world are not free to wear hijab and are oppressed. For example, in France, the police recently has banned a Muslim female of her hijab and ordered her to take off her burkini.

I think women Muslims should not attend in the beaches where they cannot wear their hijab.

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When I go to the beach with my family, I wear clothing that covers my body and is made of a fabric that doesn't absorb much water and dries quickly. It resembles this photo I found on the internet:

turkish-woman-wearing-headscarf-walking-

Except mine is blue floral print. 

I can't concieve of how it poses a threat or is offensive to French politicians.

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5 hours ago, CreepingSharia said:

she can wear whatever she wants bc it's not a mans job to police a woman's body

This.  If you don't like what you see others wearing at the beach, either learn how to avert your eyes, or don't go to the beach.

1 hour ago, yusur317 said:

You know what would've made this thread readable? If it said "what should muslim women AND MEN wear on the beaches?"

This too.  It is far too common to see a Muslim man exposing however much skin he wants while his wife is fully clad from head to toe.  Modesty isn't something reserved for women.

 

I think I've seen pictures of Turkish beaches, where there are people in bikinis and burkinis swimming without even paying attention to what the other is wearing.

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3 hours ago, yusur317 said:

You know what would've made this thread readable? If it said "what should muslim women AND MEN wear on the beaches?"

THANK YOU!!!

Men are given a pass as to how they should look in public. My body is for my wife and for my wife only and I want no other women (or men) to "check me out" like a piece of meat.

I don't wear hijab, but I usually veil my eyes and face with my hand when I notice a woman checking me out.

Muslim men need to get their act together.

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Muslim men and Muslim women shouldn't be anywhere near the beaches in the Western countries.

And both men and women shouldn't be swimming with each other. 

What should happen is designated swimming areas for each gender - and each can wear what they want in those areas provided no private parts are shown.

Edited by The Batman
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13 hours ago, CreepingSharia said:

she can wear whatever she wants bc it's not a mans job to police a woman's body

The Sharia is not interpreted by your whims.

Men are not "policing" women when they order them to observe their Sharia duties. And similar women are not "policing" men if they order them to observe their Sharia duties.

Edited by The Batman
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23 hours ago, ma'e ma'een said:

Imagine a female person who goes to a picnic and is according to her mind free to wear (or not wear) every clothes she likes. If she gets a disease on her skin, others will dislike her body. It is because they looked at her with her beauty not as she was a citizen or basically a woman.

You actually have a good point here. No doubt people these day judge women simply on their looks and nothing else. But no one does the same to men. Lot of those Feminist make the same point as well. When people watch the Olympics when their watching the women event, they judge the women on what they look like but not how they play. But the same criteria is not applied to men. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Its simply sexist and morally wrong to judge women because of their looks but not her hard work and intelligence. I have seen it happen too much around me. I will tell you I am sick of it. Ever since we had these celebrities and models out there, women have for no reason become too flustered and pressured to look as 'good' as them. Its not just women who fall in this trap, Men can also be the victims at times.

At the end of the day we are all beautiful in different ways and we should always do exactly what everyone else is doing. We should be independent and think for ourselves.

 

 

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17 hours ago, The Batman said:

Muslim men and Muslim women shouldn't be anywhere near the beaches in the Western countries.

What about children? Only fathers take boys and only mothers take girls? Or can children go with either parent, but not both?

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19 hours ago, The Batman said:

Muslim men and Muslim women shouldn't be anywhere near the beaches in the Western countries.

And both men and women shouldn't be swimming with each other. 

What should happen is designated swimming areas for each gender - and each can wear what they want in those areas provided no private parts are shown.

Why?  Should men not go outside in the summer when women are wearing short shorts and tank tops?  Can men and women swim with each other if both are modestly dressed?

19 hours ago, The Batman said:

The Sharia is not interpreted by your whims.

Men are not "policing" women when they order them to observe their Sharia duties. And similar women are not "policing" men if they order them to observe their Sharia duties.

First off, there are tons of interpretations of Shariah.

Secondly, why should anyone be forced to follow "Shariah"?  

Lastly, is it even considered acceptable in most Islamic countries for women to go around policing men on Shariah obedience?  

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3 hours ago, coldcow said:

Why?  Should men not go outside in the summer when women are wearing short shorts and tank tops?  Can men and women swim with each other if both are modestly dressed?

First off, there are tons of interpretations of Shariah.

Secondly, why should anyone be forced to follow "Shariah"?  

Lastly, is it even considered acceptable in most Islamic countries for women to go around policing men on Shariah obedience?  

What would be classed as modest dress for women in the beach? Even a abaya would become tight under the water. According to many scholars, mixed-swimming is haram. 

The reason why some are not concerned with men being shirtless is because that is not haram in and of itself (according to Twelver Fiqh). But it can potentially be haram if I remember correctly. It is like watching a men's boxing match, the men are allowed to watch it but not women.

There are tons of interpretations of Sharia but some things are undoubtable. Like Salat al-Maghrib, for example.

And it is good that Sharia is forced. Imam al-Mahdi will enforce Sharia. The Prophet had enforced Sharia. As did Imam Ali.

It might not be socially acceptable for women to "police" men if they see a wrong, but according to our Fiqh, it is wajib under certain circumstances.

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4 hours ago, notme said:

What about children? Only fathers take boys and only mothers take girls? Or can children go with either parent, but not both?

If I remember correctly they can go with either parent provided they are not baligh. And provided the boy isn't mumayaz. But double check on that.

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17 hours ago, The Batman said:

What would be classed as modest dress for women in the beach? Even a abaya would become tight under the water. According to many scholars, mixed-swimming is haram. 

The reason why some are not concerned with men being shirtless is because that is not haram in and of itself (according to Twelver Fiqh). But it can potentially be haram if I remember correctly. It is like watching a men's boxing match, the men are allowed to watch it but not women.

There are tons of interpretations of Sharia but some things are undoubtable. Like Salat al-Maghrib, for example.

And it is good that Sharia is forced. Imam al-Mahdi will enforce Sharia. The Prophet had enforced Sharia. As did Imam Ali.

It might not be socially acceptable for women to "police" men if they see a wrong, but according to our Fiqh, it is wajib under certain circumstances.

You didn't answer my first question.  If you're saying that men and women shouldn't be anywhere near beaches in Western countries, why is that?  Is it because of all the skin they'll see?  If so, does that mean a man can't go outside in the summer time when women walk around in shorts almost exposing their rear ends, and tight shirts or tank tops that expose their arms and cleavage?  If they can go outside so long as they learn to avert their eyes, why can't they do the same at the beach?

And for men, it isn't just a matter of being shirtless.  Many men wear shorts that are way short as well.  At least by Sunni views, the man's awra is from the knees to the navel.  Some on here have said that only the privates must be covered according to Shia views.  So I guess there is some manner of interpretation there.

The prophet and all the caliphs enforced Shariah law, where it was literally the law.  Last I checked, no western country (and many Muslims countries) don't have Shariah law codified into their law.  So again, why should anyone be forced to follow Shariah when it is not the law of the land?  If they don't want to follow the teachings of the Qu'ran and hadiths, let them face the consequences on judgement day.

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7 hours ago, coldcow said:

You didn't answer my first question.  If you're saying that men and women shouldn't be anywhere near beaches in Western countries, why is that?  Is it because of all the skin they'll see?  If so, does that mean a man can't go outside in the summer time when women walk around in shorts almost exposing their rear ends, and tight shirts or tank tops that expose their arms and cleavage?  If they can go outside so long as they learn to avert their eyes, why can't they do the same at the beach?

And for men, it isn't just a matter of being shirtless.  Many men wear shorts that are way short as well.  At least by Sunni views, the man's awra is from the knees to the navel.  Some on here have said that only the privates must be covered according to Shia views.  So I guess there is some manner of interpretation there.

The prophet and all the caliphs enforced Shariah law, where it was literally the law.  Last I checked, no western country (and many Muslims countries) don't have Shariah law codified into their law.  So again, why should anyone be forced to follow Shariah when it is not the law of the land?  If they don't want to follow the teachings of the Qu'ran and hadiths, let them face the consequences on judgement day.

1) The reason they are not allowed to be there according to some scholarly views is because these types of places are considered "khila'iyya" - a Fiqhi term given to places where proper clothing is not observed. As far as I know, the general public areas are not considered "khila'iyya" - but if say, it just so happened that everyone in a particular country had to be nude for one day, it may very well be haram to live in that country.

2) I never said the West should enforce Sharia. The West can do what they want, I couldn't care less. I am speaking about Islamic countries.

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14 hours ago, The Batman said:

1) The reason they are not allowed to be there according to some scholarly views is because these types of places are considered "khila'iyya" - a Fiqhi term given to places where proper clothing is not observed. As far as I know, the general public areas are not considered "khila'iyya" - but if say, it just so happened that everyone in a particular country had to be nude for one day, it may very well be haram to live in that country.

2) I never said the West should enforce Sharia. The West can do what they want, I couldn't care less. I am speaking about Islamic countries.

1) Fair enough.  But any male who has been on a college campus in the summer/fall knows how many "distractions" there are.

2) I feel like this thread was talking about women in the West, considering all that's happening in France.  But if shariah shouldn't be enforced upon anyone in the West, including Muslims, then I guess there's no forcing Muslim women to wear certain clothes when going outside or going to the beach (in the West).  They can wear whatever they want.

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On 8/31/2016 at 5:40 PM, coldcow said:

 I guess there's no forcing Muslim women to wear certain clothes when going outside or going to the beach (in the West).  They can wear whatever they want.

Well, yes. It is a choice. Any Muslim can choose to follow Islam or ignore whichever laws are inconvenient for them. Under secular law, secular courts will judge. Under Islamic law, the Imam can judge, or Allah will. 

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3 hours ago, mina said:

Isn't it haram to go to mixed beaches no matter what you wear because others are not dressed appropiately ?

By that logic it would be haram to go outside to the grocery store because others are dressed inappropriately.  

2 hours ago, notme said:

Well, yes. It is a choice. Any Muslim can choose to follow Islam or ignore whichever laws are inconvenient for them. Under secular law, secular courts will judge. Under Islamic law, the Imam can judge, or Allah will. 

Right, my point is that people should be allowed to do what they want and face the consequences, either in this life or the next.  If your wife doesn't want to wear hijab, don't force her.  For some reason there's an attitude floating around some circles that it is up to the men to uphold Islamic traditions, and that's when you start getting honor killings and what not.  But no one, not even other men, hold Muslim men to the same level of accountability when they fool around with girls, or dress immodestly, or go drinking, etc.

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What should women Muslims wear on the beaches?

 

You've got it all wrong. You maky sandwiches. And you looky after children. While your man hunts for other potential Muslim women. Hamdulillah, Jazakallah. 

On a serious note, please wear whatever is appropriate according to your circumstances. I will not judge you for taking off micky mouse hijab if you're having fun far from the crowd with your family. I will also not really care if you're mixed up in the crowd without a hijab. In fact i'll view it as a personal responsibility to behave and respect you like I'd respect other individuals. 

On a very serious note, I'd also suggest that you take into consideration the point of view of the scholar(s) whom you follow and if you don't have a favourite, just use your common sense and reasoning to help you decide what is best to wear in any given scenario.... The principle is to veil your "ornaments". 

 
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17 hours ago, coldcow said:

What if you can't afford groceries and need to fish to feed your family?  What about going to college, where girls walk around in short shorts and tank tops in the summer time?  

You don't get it right? First of all you don't go fishing at the beach...lol.Obviously you never went fishing.Studying or working are things you need to do to earn a living and provide for your family.

Laying around at the mixed western beach sipping a cold ice tea is just for fun.You don't have to do it.

Sayyed Sistani

Question: Is it permissible to swim in a mixed swimming pool without having any lustful intention?

Answer: Based on obligatory precaution, it is not permissible to go to the places of indecency at all.

Question: Is it permissible to go to sea beaches and public parks during sunny days for walking while one might come across scenes which are against the norm of decency?Answer: Without a guarantee that one will not commit a forbidden act, it is not permissible.

http://www.sistani.org/english/book/46/2057/

Edited by mina
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16 hours ago, mina said:

You don't get it right? First of all you don't go fishing at the beach...lol.Obviously you never went fishing.Studying or working are things you need to do to earn a living and provide for your family.

Laying around at the mixed western beach sipping a cold ice tea is just for fun.You don't have to do it.

Sayyed Sistani

Do a Google image search for "surf fishing" if you don't think you go fishing at the beach.  Then lol if you still want to.  I'm from Texas, I've been fishing and hunting since before I can remember.

And if working to provide for your family allows you to do things you think are otherwise haram (like fishing on a beach or going to a university where people may dress indecently) as it appears you are alluding to, then what about working at or owning a gas station that sells alcohol?

Quote

Question: Is it permissible to swim in a mixed swimming pool without having any lustful intention?

Answer: Based on obligatory precaution, it is not permissible to go to the places of indecency at all.

Question: Is it permissible to go to sea beaches and public parks during sunny days for walking while one might come across scenes which are against the norm of decency?Answer: Without a guarantee that one will not commit a forbidden act, it is not permissible.

http://www.sistani.org/english/book/46/2057/

So the first question makes no mention of exceptions for any place of indecency, whether it be the pool, the beach, the classroom, or work (where office secretaries may dress indecently).

The second question leaves open the possibility that if you can guarantee that you won't commit a forbidden act (i.e. lusting after someone, getting a "second look," etc.), then you can possibly go to those places.  So if you're good at averting your eyes, guarding your gaze, and/or you have your wife with you to do it for you, then it sounds like you might be ok?

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On 28/08/2016 at 8:56 PM, yusur317 said:

You know what would've made this thread readable? If it said "what should muslim women AND MEN wear on the beaches?"

LOL at this.

Brothers, I know you want to be a soldier of the Imam (aj) and all, but please keep your 313 and Hezbollah chest tattoos to yourself.

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