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Tatbir - A terrible insult to Imam Hussain a.s

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Tatbir is really a "show off" in public. There has probably never been a person who does it alone in their house. If it was really a part of Islam, all our top scholars would do it personally.

 

The idea of someone making dozens of cuts into their skin and bleeding profusely out of love of imam hussain a.s while in their bathtub alone at home honestly makes me feel, is this really what the imam would have wanted?

 

Is this really a healthy thing to be teaching our society? Our kids? That the way to channel grief- be it personal or religious- is to inflict wounds and harm ourselves?

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In the name of Allah the beneficient the merciful,

 

I sincerely, absolutely sincerely am convinced this act beyond any shadow of doubt, damages, ridicules, and destroys the image of shia's, distorts the message of imam hussain a.s, and is arguably one of the biggest parasites currently plaquing some communities of shia's.

 

 

Salam,

 

Once a Shia man showed me pics related to cutting in muharram, and told it is a miracle that these people don't die because they use the Name of Imam Hussain,  i too wanted to show him pics of a tribe with thick spears running thru there cheeks and tongues , and still alive...if that was a miracle of Hussain, whose miracle is this?

 

 

 

Hadith :

Imam Baqir (A.S) has said those who claim to be shia should know that shias are our friends and followers. They are:

1.Pious  2.Obedient  3.Humbleness  4. Uprightness  5.Trustworthiness

6.By their, Zikr-remembrance of God  7.Their salaat  8.fasting 9.Kindness to parents  

10.Respect for the rights of neighbors 11. Their assistance for the poor and the disabled

12.Sympathy for the destitute 13.Loving behavior towards orphans 14.Truthfulness

15.Recitation of the Holy Quran, and acting according to all commandments and laws in it

16.True Shi’as control their tongue and use it in the best manner for beneficence

18. Wish the best for all the servants of God and 19. give shelter to their friends.

Edited by tendersoul

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Dear brothers: I won't create fitna in this holy month of Muharram by chasing people who do tatbir. There are better ways of dawa such as:

 

1. Not letting them in mosque area telling them blood is najis

2. Asking them to establish salat as well which is equally the sunnah of Imam Hussain (as)

3. Ask them to sit in the lecture which some avoid

4. Ask them how it would help propagate the message of Islam

 

but do not create a fight or ill feelings.

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The idea of someone making dozens of cuts into their skin and bleeding profusely out of love of imam hussain a.s while in their bathtub alone at home honestly makes me feel, is this really what the imam would have wanted?

 

Is this really a healthy thing to be teaching our society? Our kids? That the way to channel grief- be it personal or religious- is to inflict wounds and harm ourselves?

 

What do you think about regular chest-beating or those chains that people strike their backs with but don't necessarily cause cuts or bleeding. I feel like those are fine, they don't hurt the person but they do demonstrate strong emotion.

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In the name of Allah , the beneficient, the merciful.

Salamunalaykum,

I write this, not to cause discord or disunity, but to speak out against an act i am convinced, by my own conciousness, research, and emulating the views of a plethora of scholars [though this is not to say i am appealing to authority as people can have fatwah wars], and rationally deducing based on a number of factors, the incorrectness of this act, why it is an abomination, and worse of all, the great damage it has caused to the message of Hussain a.s, and his followers.

I understand that some of you perform it, and some may even have fathers, brothers, perhaps if part of the Iraqi community in London, even mothers and sisters who perform this act. Perhaps some of you strongly believe it is a way you can sacrifice parts of yourself, and you do so out of love for Hussain and grief over what happened. I am not calling you evil, or disgusting. I understand some of you have very pure intentions and deep love for Muhammed wa ale Muhammed asws. Some of you having family who do it, or do it yourselves, will respond to this and try to either insult me, or refute what i am saying vigorously.  But i am talking about something bigger than me, and bigger than you. I am talking about the preservation of the closest path to the truth.  I am talking about the school of Ahlulbayt asws.

Unfortunately for some, this act has become an ingrained part of their being, and their religion.

Why getting rid of Tatbir is of the utmost importance:

1. It is not part of a civilised society, or the fitrah and higher nature of the human being, to engage in actions of violent self harm. A civilised society prides itself on moderation, on civility, on beauty, and on dignity. By taking swords, knives, and attacking ones ownself, gashing ones own flesh, we go against the fitrah of the human, we go against the norms of civilised society. We thus, cause an association of shia Islam with barbarism, harm, and incivility.

2. Human beings are naturally averse to blood. It is part of our nature to be disgusted by it. So what kind of psychological message as we sending by having children, babies, men , and in secret, even women, govered in deep cuts and full of blood?

3. Shia muslims are already an oppressed minority. If you have powerful, wealthy enemies, and have been abused and persecuted for all of your history, barring small pockets of exceptions, the last thing you want to do is anything unecessary to make life harder for yourself. It is like scoring an own goal. It's needles8.s.

4. There is absolutely no doubt it ruins our image. Not only are non-muslims repelled by it, so are sunni's and significant portions of shia's. Therefore, no-one who is honest, just, truthful, and consistent in their application of logic can deny that it harms our image in the worst of ways. Therefore, any fatwah allowing it, but adding the exception of 'if it harms our image' should be put  - in strict honesty and integrity- in light of the absolute and overwhelming reality that it does harm our image. in light of the internet, doing it in pakistan or doing it in the UK makes absolutely no difference, Digital media and technology make images publicly available the world over. Anyone who allows it in one country, but forbids it on another has made a massive error in overlooking this reality of the world in the 21st century.

5. The imams a.s neither did this, nor sanctioned it. It has no religious or rational basis. What better way is there to mourn Hussain a.s, than the way Imam Sajjad a.s mourned him?

6. It has severely detracted and hijacked , and perhaps even overpowered the message of Imam Hussain a.s. The message of Kerbala by the media is now presented first of all, as a barbaric backward practise of self-harm by shias, often in iraq,  indo-pakistan, and afghanistan among other regions this innovation has infected.

7. How does it teach our youth to handle depression ? Self-Harm, inflicting pain on oneself as a result of grief, are extremely unhealthy ways to deal and cope with sadness. Rather than finding healthy outlets and ways to express sadness, it teaches people very backward an unhealthy ways, harming adults, but also potentially causing incredible harm to children and young adults/teenagers.

8. And ofcourse, as it is practised world-wide, the harm of spread of infections , as well as the fact it is self-harm and it is an abuse of the amanah given to us by Allah azwj. I put this last to stop the semantics about 'what constitutes self harm in fiqh'. I guess it's okay to get HIV and HEPC so long as there is no loss of limb or life ?

 

 

The path of Muhammed wa ale Muhammed s.a.w is one of intelligence, beauty, dignity, moderation, and profound, peircing, bright light. People should associate the followers of the Ahlulbayt asws and the image of the school with these virtues among many of the others. For the sake of that man who was beheaded, losing his family, tortured, oppressed, giving his life and experiencing the torment of seeng those he loved dearly brutally slaughtered on the plains of Kerbala,  help the fight and raise awarness against this act. If you will be abused, shouted act, called names, take it. If they'll call you a batri, and abuse Ayatullah Khamanei, let them. If they will decide to split and cause great divisions in shia communities based on this act, let them face Allah azwj on the day of Qiyamah.

And to those who do this act, i do not hate you. Many of you i am sure, do it purely out of love and devotion. But i ask you, and perhaps this may be difficult if it is so ingrained in you, perhaps fro mchildhood, to reconsider if there are better ways you can mourn Imam Hussain a.s.

 

 

 

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Just now, humanbeing101 said:

Opinions, everyone is entitlted to them of course. 

 

Indeed each to their own opinion. But the fact is, it causes immense harm to the image of shia's globally, and the points i listed are pretty much facts. One can decide to ignore that and by virtue of their own opinion, support this act. But ofcourse, we all know where mere opinions not based on facts or common decency caused after the death of Muhammed s.a.w in Saqifah.

Edited by uponthesunnah

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:bismillah:

:salam:

and this goes further, a malangi saying someone posted to me

"

Latest malangi nara in Pakistan..." YA ALI MADAD> Tmam tar hamd ki mehvar he wo zaat...jo chhup jaye to Allah he, Nikal aye tu Ali(j.j) he.."

La haula wala quwwata illa billa...

Translation

Ya Ali(as) Madad. The core of all praises belong to that (entity), that when He is hidden then He is Allah and when He is manifest than he is Ali(Jalla Jalalahu).

Are these jokers making a mockery of the Shia religion and faith. 

Can these nut jobs be classified as Muslims let alone Shias?

:ws:

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2 minutes ago, haideriam said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

and this goes further, a malangi saying someone posted to me

"

Latest malangi nara in Pakistan..." YA ALI MADAD> Tmam tar hamd ki mehvar he wo zaat...jo chhup jaye to Allah he, Nikal aye tu Ali(j.j) he.."

La haula wala quwwata illa billa...

Translation

Ya Ali(as) Madad. The core of all praises belong to that (entity), that when He is hidden then He is Allah and when He is manifest than he is Ali(Jalla Jalalahu).

Are these jokers making a mockery of the Shia religion and faith. 

Can these nut jobs be classified as Muslims let alone Shias?

:ws:

The moment anyone believes Ali as Allah, he becomes nusairi, out of the fold of Islam. 

Lets not deviate from the actual topic brother. 

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grew up in an environment where beating your chest with blades, hitting your head with knives, and firewalking  was the norm but the most powerful of all was watching grown-ups weep like children for someone from 1400 years ago. 

anyway, those of you who are into tatbir, we love you too but do look into donating that blood of yours instead. 

 

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On 10/16/2015 at 6:40 PM, uponthesunnah said:

  AKA Tawheed313

Since you are very passionate and caring Shi’a,  who believes with all its  heart and soul in the Wilayat of Amir al-Muminin(Commander of the Faithful), Imam al-Muttaqeen(Leader of the Pious), Hujjah of Allah(awj)(Proof of Allah(awj), Mawla Ali ibn Abi Talib(as).

Really good way to gain audience with the Targeted group, demonstrate that you really  Truly understand what is Aza. What is the objective, Strengths and opportunities and Threats. If there are any issues, you like to  talks about it by keeping a broader view and looking at all 5 topic( in the thread posted below), people may really look into your genuine and honest concerns and   advice, as you would  have demonstrated that you really have a vested interest in the welfare of the Shia.

Otherwise your suggestion, will be discarded if you just attack them with insults, mocking etc…..A screen name could be a Nasabi.Khawarij/Salafi/Wahabi/ Shia hatter / or a hate/fitna monger --as you see Azadari of Son of Fatima Az Zahra(sa) is attacked, so inform them (audience) that you are with them by discussing the issue from a broader perspective,


My Final advice, Here is your Chance,

 

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