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In the Name of God بسم الله
wmehar2

Understanding Shia' perspective

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Assalaaam'alikum everyone, thanks for reading.

 

I've been up all night and slouching at work pondering this.   The Shia' side of Islam purposes that our Prophet SAW was infallible and acted out Islam (which I agree with from an infallible perspective that the Prophet never intentionally committed a wrong or sinful act and therefore has not), before it was revealed since his birth correctly its true form..., (im not sure if this is extended to the imams as well it seems so)

 

But don't these verses sort of contradict this?  Unless I'm wrong on that perspective, please correct me if I'm wrong.   I'm only basing this from what Ive heard interacting with others here and its possible i've misunderstood.

 

46:9

Say, "I am not something original among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am not but a clear warner."

10:15

And when Our verses are recited to them as clear evidences, those who do not expect the meeting with Us say, "Bring us a Qur'an other than this or change it." Say, [O Muhammad], "It is not for me to change it on my own accord. I only follow what is revealed to me. Indeed I fear, if I should disobey my Lord, the punishment of a tremendous Day."

7:203

And when you, [O Muhammad], do not bring them a sign, they say, "Why have you not contrived it?" Say, "I only follow what is revealed to me from my Lord. This [Qur'an] is enlightenment from your Lord and guidance and mercy for a people who believe."

6:50

Say, [O Muhammad], "I do not tell you that I have the depositories [containing the provision] of Allah or that I know the unseen, nor do I tell you that I am an angel. I only follow what is revealed to me." Say, "Is the blind equivalent to the seeing? Then will you not give thought?"

 

I mean unless i've misunderstood or someone misspoke,  These verses seem to directly go against the idea that the Prophet SAW lived and exemplified the Qu'ran/God's Laws prior to their revelation.   A recurring theme, amazingly Sub'an Allah, where he says "I only follow what is revealed to me", no one in that time seems to pick up on the Prophet SAW living or exemplifying Islamic manifestations prior to revelation and brings it up...   Being unaware of God's message doesn't give capacity to one to sin, of course.

and to a lesser extent, these verses:

118:10

Say, "I am only a man like you, to whom has been revealed that your god is one God. So whoever would hope for the meeting with his Lord - let him do righteous work and not associate in the worship of his Lord anyone."

 

27:65

Say, "None in the heavens and earth knows the unseen except Allah , and they do not perceive when they will be resurrected."

-The Qur'an was Unseen before the Prophet's SAW birth. was it not?

Thoughts?  commentS?  Advice? Suggestions?

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11 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

I mean unless i've misunderstood or someone misspoke,  These verses seem to directly go against the idea that the Prophet SAW lived and exemplified the Qu'ran/God's Laws prior to their revelation.  

Mother of Prophet Musa(as)

[Pickthal 28:7] And We inspired the mother of Moses, saying: Suckle him and, when thou fearest for him, then cast him into the river and fear not nor grieve. Lo! We shall bring him back unto thee and shall make him (one) of Our messengers.

*****

Mother of Mary(as)

[Pickthal 3:35] (Remember) when the wife of 'Imran said: My Lord! I have vowed unto Thee that which is in my belly as a consecrated (offering). Accept it from me. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower!

[Pickthal 3:36] And when she was delivered she said: My Lord! Lo! I am delivered of a female - Allah knew best of what she was delivered - the male is not as the female; and lo! I have named her Mary, and lo! I crave Thy protection for her and for her offspring from Satan the outcast.

[Pickthal 3:37] And her Lord accepted her with full acceptance and vouchsafed to her a goodly growth; and made Zachariah her guardian. Whenever Zachariah went into the sanctuary where she was, he found that she had food. He said: O Mary! Whence cometh unto thee this (food)? She answered: It is from Allah. Allah giveth without stint to whom He will.

*****

Prophet Zachariah(as) father of Yahya(as) John the Baptist

[Pickthal 19:7] (It was said unto him): O Zachariah! Lo! We bring thee tidings of a son whose name is John; we have given the same name to none before (him).

[Pickthal 19:8] He said: My Lord! How can I have a son when my wife is barren and I have reached infirm old age?

[Pickthal 19:9] He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me, even as I created thee before, when thou wast naught.

[Pickthal 19:10] He said: My Lord! Appoint for me some token. He said: Thy token is that thou, with no bodily defect, shalt not speak unto mankind three nights.

[Pickthal 19:11] Then he came forth unto his people from the sanctuary, and signified to them: Glorify your Lord at break of day and fall of night.

[Pickthal 19:12] (And it was said unto his son): O John! Hold fast the Scripture. And we gave him wisdom when a child,

[Pickthal 19:13] And compassion from Our presence, and purity; and he was devout,

[Pickthal 19:14] And dutiful toward his parents. And he was not arrogant, rebellious.

[Pickthal 19:15] Peace on him the day he was born, and the day he dieth and the day he shall be raised alive!

*****

Mary(as) ,Mother of Prophet Isa(as)

[Pickthal 19:27] Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.

[Pickthal 19:28] O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.

[Pickthal 19:29] Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?

[Pickthal 19:30] He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,

[Pickthal 19:31] And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,

[Pickthal 19:32] And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.

[Pickthal 19:33] Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!

[Pickthal 19:34] Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.

*****

Based on above, do you think, The tradition of Allah(awj) changed, and he went looking for a Prophet among the Arabs and found a man in 40's and sent him and Angel? 

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1 hour ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Mother of Prophet Musa(as)

[Pickthal 28:7] And We inspired the mother of Moses, saying: Suckle him and, when thou fearest for him, then cast him into the river and fear not nor grieve. Lo! We shall bring him back unto thee and shall make him (one) of Our messengers.

*****

Mother of Mary(as)

[Pickthal 3:35] (Remember) when the wife of 'Imran said: My Lord! I have vowed unto Thee that which is in my belly as a consecrated (offering). Accept it from me. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower!

[Pickthal 3:36] And when she was delivered she said: My Lord! Lo! I am delivered of a female - Allah knew best of what she was delivered - the male is not as the female; and lo! I have named her Mary, and lo! I crave Thy protection for her and for her offspring from Satan the outcast.

[Pickthal 3:37] And her Lord accepted her with full acceptance and vouchsafed to her a goodly growth; and made Zachariah her guardian. Whenever Zachariah went into the sanctuary where she was, he found that she had food. He said: O Mary! Whence cometh unto thee this (food)? She answered: It is from Allah. Allah giveth without stint to whom He will.

*****

Prophet Zachariah(as) father of Yahya(as) John the Baptist

[Pickthal 19:7] (It was said unto him): O Zachariah! Lo! We bring thee tidings of a son whose name is John; we have given the same name to none before (him).

[Pickthal 19:8] He said: My Lord! How can I have a son when my wife is barren and I have reached infirm old age?

[Pickthal 19:9] He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me, even as I created thee before, when thou wast naught.

[Pickthal 19:10] He said: My Lord! Appoint for me some token. He said: Thy token is that thou, with no bodily defect, shalt not speak unto mankind three nights.

[Pickthal 19:11] Then he came forth unto his people from the sanctuary, and signified to them: Glorify your Lord at break of day and fall of night.

[Pickthal 19:12] (And it was said unto his son): O John! Hold fast the Scripture. And we gave him wisdom when a child,

[Pickthal 19:13] And compassion from Our presence, and purity; and he was devout,

[Pickthal 19:14] And dutiful toward his parents. And he was not arrogant, rebellious.

[Pickthal 19:15] Peace on him the day he was born, and the day he dieth and the day he shall be raised alive!

*****

Mary(as) ,Mother of Prophet Isa(as)

[Pickthal 19:27] Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.

[Pickthal 19:28] O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.

[Pickthal 19:29] Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?

[Pickthal 19:30] He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,

[Pickthal 19:31] And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,

[Pickthal 19:32] And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.

[Pickthal 19:33] Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!

[Pickthal 19:34] Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.

*****

Based on above, do you think, The tradition of Allah(awj) changed, and he went looking for a Prophet among the Arabs and found a man in 40's and sent him and Angel? 

Yes and no?  Hmmm im mot sure. I do notice that these prophets AS had father's or mother's that were either prophets themselves or had direct /indirect communication with Allah swt with angel or something, where as the the prophet Muhammad SAW's father and father's before then we're not immediate prophets for at least a large chunk of time.

Many of what you referenced conveyed the prophethood to someone important before or during that particular prophets childhood.

Now we do have  narrations of Bahira/Sergius predicting prophet hood of our prophet Muhammad saws , though not he was not an angel or Allah swt directly comminicating this.... when he was a child.

I can't say for sure I know the intention or tradition of Allah swt based on your response alone bro. Technically  our prophet is descended from these prophets and/or related. In that sense I can kinda see that connection you refer to.  

 

The common theme is that these prophets were up right guys who didn't sin and did good, but still in need of guidance and had their frustrations when guiding the people, Musa AS in particular and Aaron AS.  I see that maybe these prophets pbut needed to posses a preliminary flawless character before recieving revelation /divine knowledge.  As a screening.

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Salaam brother,

I was going to write a long piece on this but brother @S.M.H.A. did a fantastic job in showing how other Prophets were prophets at birth.

The one thing I would add is about:

17 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

10:15

And when Our verses are recited to them as clear evidences, those who do not expect the meeting with Us say, "Bring us a Qur'an other than this or change it." Say, [O Muhammad], "It is not for me to change it on my own accord. I only follow what is revealed to me. Indeed I fear, if I should disobey my Lord, the punishment of a tremendous Day."

The Prophet was not a robot where he simply relayed everything Allah instructed him too. It was a conscious choice to relay Allah's message to us. The Prophet is telling us that he chooses to obey Allah as a choice and free will.

The greatness of the Masoomeen is not that they could not sin but that they did not sin out of choice. An example would be Imam Ali's letter/sermon (I forget which it is) about Muawiya's cunningness. Imam Ali recognizes the evil plans of Muawiya and admits to not doing the same as a choice.

Hope this helps.

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50 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Salaam brother,

I was going to write a long piece on this but brother @S.M.H.A. did a fantastic job in showing how other Prophets were prophets at birth.

The one thing I would add is about:

The Prophet was not a robot where he simply relayed everything Allah instructed him too. It was a conscious choice to relay Allah's message to us. The Prophet is telling us that he chooses to obey Allah as a choice and free will.

The greatness of the Masoomeen is not that they could not sin but that they did not sin out of choice. An example would be Imam Ali's letter/sermon (I forget which it is) about Muawiya's cunningness. Imam Ali recognizes the evil plans of Muawiya and admits to not doing the same as a choice.

Hope this helps.

Walaikumassalam,

Thanks for your response.  I actually responded with some questions/reflection on @S.M.H.A's post, but it Seems it hasn't been approved yet.  That response conveys that I'm not entirely sure I can say confidently  that our prophet saw was a prophet from birth when juxtaposing his life/birth with the aforementioned prophets. 

In addition to the hadith of Bahira foretelling the prophethood of Muhammad SAW,  the hadith says that he WILL become a prophet, not that he IS. 

But I'm skeptical of the Hadith being Authentic because I wonder why Abu Talib did not convert to Islam upon hearing this prophecy ...since he was present during this Hadith's occurrence. 

It makes sense the Prophet pbuh would consciously not sin in that regard, I see.

 

Though I'm not speaking from the standpoint to say the prophet saw sinned or not,  or even made mistakes.  

I'm speaking more specifically in regards to the Prophet saw living his life in the way of revelation before it was revealed.  One small example is where His adopted son, Zaid ibn Muhammad was renamed after revelation to Zaid ibn Harith., etc.

Edited by wmehar2

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59 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

But I'm skeptical of the Hadith being Authentic because I wonder why Abu Talib did not convert to Islam upon hearing this prophecy ...since he was present during this Hadith's occurrence. 

Brother,

Let's leave Hz Abu Talib's faith discussion for a different thread. All shias believe 100% that he was a follower of the deen-e-Ibrahimi (Believing in 1 God) before the Muhammad and became a Muslim after the announcement. Now why he did not openly declare his faith? Politics - he could protect the Prophet better without declaring his faith than by declaring it so he chose to do what was right for Islam and the Prophet. It is a great shame that his service to Islam and the Prophet has been completely neglected by the Muslims and he is made out to be a kaffir. If he was the father of any other caliph or sahaba, Abu Talib would have been the most revered figure in Islam after the Prophet. But I digress...

1 hour ago, wmehar2 said:

In addition to the hadith of Bahira foretelling the prophethood of Muhammad SAW,  the hadith says that he WILL become a prophet, not that he IS. 

But I'm skeptical of the Hadith being Authentic because I wonder why Abu Talib did not convert to Islam upon hearing this prophecy ...since he was present during this Hadith's occurrence. 

It makes sense the Prophet pbuh would consciously not sin in that regard, I see.

Without getting into the authenticity of the hadith of Bahira, Muslims even today are not sure whether the Prophet was a Prophet from birth or at the age of 40 so let's not worry about the 'tense' used by a Christian Monk 1,400+ years ago.

1 hour ago, wmehar2 said:

I'm speaking more specifically in regards to the Prophet saw living his life in the way of revelation before it was revealed.  One small example is where His adopted son, Zaid ibn Muhammad was renamed after revelation to Zaid ibn Harith., etc.

The cultural rule at that time was to give the adopted son your name so the Prophet followed the rule until he had established sharia and then changed the name.

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The same case for Musa AS,  where our holy book mentions that he WILL be made a prophet , and not IS one.  The below has a fundamental distinction.  Some were prophets from birth, some not based off initial observation. 

28:7

....We shall bring him back unto thee and shall make him (one) of Our messengers.

 

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الَّذِينَ يَتَّبِعُونَ الرَّسُولَ النَّبِيَّ الْأُمِّيَّ الَّذِي يَجِدُونَهُ مَكْتُوبًا عِنْدَهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَالْإِنْجِيلِ يَأْمُرُهُمْ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَاهُمْ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ وَيُحِلُّ لَهُمُ الطَّيِّبَاتِ وَيُحَرِّمُ عَلَيْهِمُ الْخَبَائِثَ وَيَضَعُ عَنْهُمْ إِصْرَهُمْ وَالْأَغْلَالَ الَّتِي كَانَتْ عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ فَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِهِ وَعَزَّرُوهُ وَنَصَرُوهُ وَاتَّبَعُوا النُّورَ الَّذِي أُنْزِلَ مَعَهُ ۙ أُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ {157}

[Pickthal 7:157] Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.

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11 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Brother,

Let's leave Hz Abu Talib's faith discussion for a different thread. All shias believe 100% that he was a follower of the deen-e-Ibrahimi (Believing in 1 God) before the Muhammad and became a Muslim after the announcement. Now why he did not openly declare his faith? Politics - he could protect the Prophet better without declaring his faith than by declaring it so he chose to do what was right for Islam and the Prophet. It is a great shame that his service to Islam and the Prophet has been completely neglected by the Muslims and he is made out to be a kaffir. If he was the father of any other caliph or sahaba, Abu Talib would have been the most revered figure in Islam after the Prophet. But I digress...

Without getting into the authenticity of the hadith of Bahira, Muslims even today are not sure whether the Prophet was a Prophet from birth or at the age of 40 so let's not worry about the 'tense' used by a Christian Monk 1,400+ years ago.

The cultural rule at that time was to give the adopted son your name so the Prophet followed the rule until he had established sharia and then changed the name.

I suppose that's another conversation regarding Abu Talib,   I personally didn't know that there are differences of opinion regarding the faith of Abu Talib.

I don't know what was in his heart, surely only Allah swt knows.  Forgive my assumption as I've only based it on the lack of reporting of his taking of the Shahadah.  It may very well he  had faith in his nephews prophecy and believed, silently to protect him, though many could also argue his conversion may have helped smooth transition of the Meccans to accept God's message.  Only Allah swt knows.

 I've not come across any hadith in regards to when Abu Talib took the Shahadah even upon his death bed, but perhaps the narrations I've read were lacking ?  As I said, before I'm dubious of many hadith, I'm open to reading other sources.

I don't know if you all know about the prophet's SAW grandfather Abdul Mutallib having draw lots to not sacrifice the prophets father , but you may not believe the historical resources /hadith concerning this history.  It would seem you would not given your stance on Abu Talib's faith. 

 

But the prophet's father  was to be sacrificed after Abdul Mutallib vowed upon digging /protecting the well of zam zam,  where he wanted 10 sons and to sacrifice the 10th depending on divination arrows, which was a highly common pagan practice in Jahillyia Arabia, he then consulted a sorceress to cast lots with camels (another pagan practice)  and keeping adding 10 camels everytime Abdullah ibn Abdul Mutallib  was chosen.    Until 100 camels were reached, they were chosen to he sacrificed instead, the test was also repeated 3 times.

I take it the shia take this story to he rubbish? (I'm not arguing if it is authentic just want to know what the shia make of it so I can understand )

If this is the case then I can understand and why you would believe Abu Talib was a muslim indeed.  

Otherwise it would seem Abu Talib would have been a pagan by default considering his father's influence and deeds.  But I wouldn't be hasty to make this conclusion as I'm skeptical of many hadiths.  I don't personally have a position on this issue.

 

I just want to see the shia perspective and their rationales so I can understand.

My personal position is ones ability to be muslim or not is solely between Allah swt and them, and my capacity to be a muslim shouldn't be impacted by that.

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36 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

الَّذِينَ يَتَّبِعُونَ الرَّسُولَ النَّبِيَّ الْأُمِّيَّ الَّذِي يَجِدُونَهُ مَكْتُوبًا عِنْدَهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَالْإِنْجِيلِ يَأْمُرُهُمْ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَاهُمْ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ وَيُحِلُّ لَهُمُ الطَّيِّبَاتِ وَيُحَرِّمُ عَلَيْهِمُ الْخَبَائِثَ وَيَضَعُ عَنْهُمْ إِصْرَهُمْ وَالْأَغْلَالَ الَّتِي كَانَتْ عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ فَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِهِ وَعَزَّرُوهُ وَنَصَرُوهُ وَاتَّبَعُوا النُّورَ الَّذِي أُنْزِلَ مَعَهُ ۙ أُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ {157}

[Pickthal 7:157] Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.

Ah yes I've actually came across the passages in the Torah  regarding the man who cannot read or write.   

 

But forgive me I'm slow to connect dots :/  what's the significance in referencing this pertaining to the discussion?

Edited by wmehar2

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43 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

Ah yes I've actually came across the passages in the Torah  regarding the man who cannot read or write.   

 

But forgive me I'm slow to connect dots :/  what's the significance in referencing this pertaining to the discussion?

Here is some info on the sub topic that came out.

Regarding Qur'an 7:157 the relevant part is " whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them."

As per my first post, it seems that your/(people you said you interact with). Is of the opinion, that god assigned the post and informed all the Prophets of the "Seal of the Prophets"( Their Leader) and went looking to fill it with a qualified person in Arabia? 

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29 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Here is some info on the sub topic that came out.

Regarding Qur'an 7:157 the relevant part is " whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them."

As per my first post, it seems that your/(people you said you interact with). Is of the opinion, that god assigned the post and informed all the Prophets of the "Seal of the Prophets"( Their Leader) and went looking to fill it with a qualified person in Arabia? 

Well this is my big question and struggle is brother.  I don't know what they (my people , much less who they are)  think I only know how I interpret what's in front of me.  My opinions are easily swayed given the right logic and evidence presented not absent a sincere effort to strive to truth.

My question here challenges that the prophet married in "haram ".  Because a non muslim did their nikah, potentially.  I don't know for sure but why would the shia have a problem with the prophet saw being married by a non muslim ?

 

The shia muslims have argued with me from many examples in the Quran when Musa  AS and Suleman AS and etc made mistakes and sins but we're only being tested and therefore did not really commit sin or were put in a situation where they would be blameless and therefore without sin?  So extend that logic to when the prophet saw and lady Khadijah RA were married by Abu Talib, was it really in Haram? If Abu Talib was or wasn't muslim mattered ?

If one is to  assume  the prophet saw didn't live the quran before revelation, then many shii' arguments fail from the thread you've posted to me. 

We can't argue using tautgologies without proving the basal logic first.

I'm not going to use Sunni hadiths or shia hadiths but the closest, most rationable historic accounts I come across or presented to me to reconcile my opinion.  Which may  or may not include hadiths, then juxtapose it with the quran.

I'm not hardened or fixated on Abu Talib being muslim or not muslim, I'm fixated on the core issue of the prophet saw exemplifying revelation before the revelation came.

 

I hope you're  not all going to tell me that I need to have a stance on the issue concerning Abu Talib faith, because "I don't know,  I wasn't there and an not God and God doesn't need my stance on this issue to fulfill my duties as a muslim " feels like a sufficient response to what I think of Abu Talib.

I don't see a verse in the Quran explicitly naming Abu Talib a kafir, so that's the end of the discussion in that regard for me.

 

Edited by wmehar2

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هُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ ۖ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ ۗ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَبِّنَا ۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ {7}

[Shakir 3:7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
[Pickthal 3:7] He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.
[Yusufali 3:7] He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

http://quran.al-islam.org/

or 

Tafsir Al-Mizan BY ALLAMAH MUHAMMAD HUSSEIN TABATABAI

http://www.almizan.org/

*****

وَالنَّجْمِ إِذَا هَوَىٰ {1}

[Pickthal 53:1] By the Star when it setteth,

مَا ضَلَّ صَاحِبُكُمْ وَمَا غَوَىٰ {2}

[Pickthal 53:2] Your comrade erreth not, nor is deceived;

وَمَا يَنْطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَىٰ {3}

[Pickthal 53:3] Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire.

إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَىٰ {4}

[Pickthal 53:4] It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired,

عَلَّمَهُ شَدِيدُ الْقُوَىٰ {5}

[Pickthal 53:5] Which one of mighty powers hath taught him,

*****

 

يس {1}

[Pickthal 36:1] Ya Sin.

وَالْقُرْآنِ الْحَكِيمِ {2}

[Pickthal 36:2] By the wise Qur'an,

إِنَّكَ لَمِنَ الْمُرْسَلِينَ {3}

[Pickthal 36:3] Lo! thou art of those sent

عَلَىٰ صِرَاطٍ مُسْتَقِيمٍ {4}

[Pickthal 36:4] On a straight path,

تَنْزِيلَ الْعَزِيزِ الرَّحِيمِ {5

*****

Do you think the verses quoted above are the Decisive/ Mother Verses and others that you quoted needs to be looked at, with the Mother Verses in mind? 

Imagine that the Seal of the Prophets, Muhammad(peace be upon him and his progeny) just recited the Direct Revelation to the Muslims , Surah #1 Al-Faathia, students/Muslims ask questions regarding the meaning of what was just delivered to them? who are they going to reach out to for the True understanding of the Divine message? If the one delivering the message is just a "deliver man" and that's all. ?

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I'm not of the mind that he's was a simple delivery man. Im of the mind he was an intelligent human being that engaged his intellect and figured it out for us.  His pure heart and intellect were both necessary to fulfill the role given to him in my point of view.

 

I don't think he was born with the knowledge. 

To demonstrate what we need to have to reach God's happiness and peace.    But this is my personal opinion absent upbringing I've had.

To show God didn't create man incomplete and unequipped to reach him, for God makes no mistakes in his creation.  we all have the capacity, and need guidance but whether we need continous guidance is another debate.

Edited by wmehar2

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