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In the Name of God بسم الله

France bans the burkini

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@Christianlady I bought my swimsuit from a Christian woman who sells them on eBay. The default was knee-length tights and tunic with elbow length sleeves, but the seller was willing to customize to longer looser trousers and full sleeves for a small fee. I wear it with my own coordinating color spandex-like pull over scarf. My point is anyone can dress modestly if they want to. Modesty isn't only for Muslims. Christians are also supposed to dress modestly. Unfortunately many ignore their Bibles.

I like the look of those old timey swim dresses too. They're cute and feminine. Unfortunately, they were made of heavy fabric and made it difficult to swim. We've got much better available materials now.

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Last night I had dinner at a halal restaurant with relatives of mine, and they invited a couple of friends who are Catholic. They were talking about this burkini swimming suit news. The lady said she

Bismehe Ta3ala, Assalam Alikum. If you are an observant Muslimah, you don't go to mixed beaches.  Just avoid going to the beach all together so you wouldn't have to remove your clothing.  It

But France claims to be an inclusive secular liberal democracy, others don't. So really we're judging France by its own purported standards.  You're right, it's their country and their laws. But

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16 hours ago, yusur317 said:

No it's not. He was trying to prove a point ali. And he did! This is exactly why I have evidence for my claim that it doesn't matter how you look or dress- if you're a women, you'll be objectified. 

That's not a good enough reason to cross-dress. I'm sorry, but cross-dressing is haram whether he intended to or not.

As for your other post concerning face-covering, it is a debated issue within Shi'a Fiqh with some maraja saying it is wajib, at least according to obligatory precaution. A lot of Shi'a women cover their faces in the Middle East, especially in Iraq around Karbala and Najaf.

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4 hours ago, Christianlady said:

Salam Laayla,

Wow. That's sad and oppressive. :(

There are beaches where women do not have to remove their clothing, including the beach my hubby and I go to near where we live.

I've seen Muslim women there enjoying the water and the sand and the sun, and their children playing happily. :)Muslim women and children enjoying God's creation is awesome!!! Some wear the burkini, and it's cool! :)

I would like to buy one someday, though I'd need to attach a Christian symbol to show I'm Christian, not Muslim.

I love these burkinis!!!

burkini.jpg

Burkini.jpg

burkini.jpg

burkini-fashion2.jpg

 

France is wrong for banning burkinis. I understand why a nation not dominated by Muslims would ban the burka or covering of the face, but burkinis don't even cover the face.

Anyways, it is wrong of France to oppress Muslim women by not allowing them to dress their definition of modest at the beach. :( I hope the USA never makes such a law. If so, then I would peacefully protest that.

Peace and God bless you

 

Bismehe Ta3ala,

CLady,

I like how you bolded one part of my sentence and left out the rest.  When a covered woman who observes hijab is going to jeopardize herself in front of men to expose her body, then she needs to be smart not to be in such environment.  She wants to be bold and protest this new law, she has other creative ways of doing it besides going to the beach. 

As you will see some sisters are very lax with what they wear.  You see those ankles and feet?  All our scholars except Sayyid Fad'Allah say they must be covered.  Also, the pictures show women curved-shaped body.  Hijab is to have loose fitting clothing.  Never will you see the Lady Mary (peace and blessings upon her and her son) revealing her hair or body to foreign men.  Hijab was not brought down on Muslims it was observed before us to our Christian and Jewish brethren.  Only difference is we continued following the law of hijab.

Your words of "sad" and "oppressive" will not be the first or last time we hear about your sorrow for Muslim women. 

4:97 Behold, those whom the angels gather in death while they are still sinning against themselves, [the angels] will ask, "What was wrong with you?'' [123] They will answer: "We were too weak on earth." [The angels] will say: "Was, then, God's earth not wide enough for you to forsake the domain of evil?" [124] For such, then, the goal is hell - and how evil a journey's end!

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ تَوَفَّاهُمُ الْمَلآئِكَةُ ظَالِمِي أَنْفُسِهِمْ قَالُواْ فِيمَ كُنتُمْ قَالُواْ كُنَّا مُسْتَضْعَفِينَ فِي الأَرْضِ قَالْوَاْ أَلَمْ تَكُنْ أَرْضُ اللّهِ وَاسِعَةً فَتُهَاجِرُواْ فِيهَا فَأُوْلَـئِكَ مَأْوَاهُمْ جَهَنَّمُ وَسَاءتْ مَصِيرًا

I enjoy how the media controls the masses to allow people to discuss and debate about the burkini, but I wish there was also this dedication for people to talk about people who are really being oppressed under House of Saud and Khalifa.   These are the governments your government support to kill innocent people of Yemen and Bahrain.  But alas, your government wants you to be deaf, dumb and blind about other people's suffering under their bloody hands. 

Peace on earth will only arrive during the reappearance of Imam Mehdi and Jesus son of Mary. 

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

Edited by Laayla
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6 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

lets pray saudi arabia becomes a secular democracy like france! 

Yeah, let's hope so. I don't like them to be honest. They are very corrupt rulers and anti-Iran. 

6 hours ago, Zendegi said:

Mohammad Mian,

No thanks. I like Iran the way it is. Secularism has failed once.

 

 

Okay, but that time Iran wasn't a secular democracy. 

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IN addition, there have been protests against the ban with " wear what you want" beach parties, a rise in the sales...probably just for spite in a lot of cases...lol, an Algerian businessman offering to pay the fines, and a realization of the fact that about 40% of Zanetti's ( tHe designer's) sales are to non-Muslims who just don't want to show themselves or risk skin cancer on the beach. 

 

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3 hours ago, Laayla said:

Bismehe Ta3ala,

CLady,I like how you bolded one part of my sentence and left out the rest. 

Salam Laayla,

My point is that Muslim women and children should be able to enjoy God's creation at the beach too. They shouldn't be prohibited from going to the beach. That is sad and oppressive.

Peace and God bless you

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Salam All, 

The Burkini ban has been overturned! Burkini's are no longer banned in that one French city! 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/26/frances-top-administrative-court-overturns-burkini-ban/

@Zendegi Now Iran is the only country in which the Burkini is banned! 

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Sad and oppressive is the Saudi bombs dropped on the heads of innocent Yemenis and bullets shot at peaceful Bahrainis by House of Khalifah.

The burkini ban is the least of my concern.  There are real and live people dying everyday by tyrannical governments.  That is my concern.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

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15 minutes ago, Nataly said:

@MuhammadXII Really? is the burkini banned in Iran? Why? then how women dress when they swim?

Yeah, according to @Zendegi, the Burkini is banned in Iran. In Iran, women aren't allowed to swim. They have to stand on the shores and watch their husbands and kids swim. 

It's banned because the government deemed swimming to be un-Islamic. 

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1 hour ago, Laayla said:

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Sad and oppressive is the Saudi bombs dropped on the heads of innocent Yemenis and bullets shot at peaceful Bahrainis by House of Khalifah.

Salam Laayla,

Any bombs dropped on the heads of any group of people is more than just sad and oppressive; it's evil. :(

Why? Because God didn't create people to kill each other. God created people to love each other, as Jesus Christ commands people to do.

As for burkinis, burkinis don't kill anybody, so they shouldn't be banned. I am totally for banning bombs that kill people and even banning shooting people, but I doubt most governments of most nations would agree with me on that.

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The burkini ban is the least of my concern.

Then why post about it? 

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There are real and live people dying everyday by tyrannical governments.  That is my concern.

True. And there are threads which discuss "real and live people dying everyday by tyrannical governments." This thread is about burkinis being banned, not about bombs. And, I would be very surprised if a Muslim lady ever has put a bomb in her burkini. So, there is no reason other than discrimination for France to ban burkinis.

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M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

Peace and God bless you

 

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2 hours ago, MuhammadXII said:

Salam All, 

The Burkini ban has been overturned! Burkini's are no longer banned in that one French city! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/26/frances-top-administrative-court-overturns-burkini-ban/

Salam MuhammadXII,

Yay That's awesome!!! :)

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Now Iran is the only country in which the Burkini is banned! 

That's sad. :(

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the Burkini is banned in Iran. In Iran, women aren't allowed to swim. They have to stand on the shores and watch their husbands and kids swim. 

Why in the world would swimming be considered wrong for women yet right for men and children (including girls)? :(

(I love swimming... I feel sad for the ladies in Iran who want to swim but can't.) :( It really does help me be more appreciate of the freedoms in the USA for women!

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady
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1 minute ago, Christianlady said:

Salam MuhammadXII,

Yay That's awesome!!! :)

That's sad. :(

Why in the world would swimming be considered wrong for women yet right for men and children (including girls)? :(

(I love swimming... and the idea of not being allowed to swim is just heart-breaking. I feel sad for the ladies in Iran who want to swim but can't.) :(

Peace and God bless you

I don't know why dear sister. Maybe my most beloved Iranian brother @Zendegi knows. 

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1 hour ago, magma said:

^ Your Iran obsession is kinda creepy.

Its ok give him a break. Hes obsessed cause he was in love with this beautiful Iranian lady and she dumped him one day before the wedding because she found out he is a shiachat troll and nobody wants to marry a troll. So she left him for Zendegi.

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@magma Okay, okay I won't tag him from now on unless it's absolutely neccessary. Wait, what do you mean by warning? 

12 minutes ago, Martyrdom said:

Its ok give him a break. Hes obsessed cause he was in love with this beautiful Iranian lady and she dumped him one day before the wedding because she found out he is a shiachat troll and nobody wants to marry a troll. So she left him for Zendegi.

Lol 

That's so TRUEEEE! 

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7 minutes ago, MuhammadXII said:

@magma Okay, okay I won't tag him from now on unless it's absolutely neccessary. Wait, what do you mean by warning? 

Lol 

That's so TRUEEEE! 

Salam.

Iran will always be the Islamic Republic and Shia and no burkini whether you like it or not, insha'Allah.

Wasalam.

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@Christianlady

Iran does not permit mixed gender swimming in public- that is because it is not allowed in Islam. It is not oppressive and, with respect, Muslim women do not need other people to tell them if Islam is or is not oppressive- Islam is not oppressive to women so I don't think any Muslim women here really care about [your] opinions about Muslim women :) .

Since when were women in Iran banned from swimming?! You guys seriously need to get your act together...

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6 hours ago, silasun said:

@Christianlady

Iran does not permit mixed gender swimming in public- that is because it is not allowed in Islam. It is not oppressive and, with respect, Muslim women do not need other people to tell them if Islam is or is not oppressive- Islam is not oppressive to women so I don't think any Muslim women here really care about [your] opinions about Muslim women :) .

Since when were women in Iran banned from swimming?! You guys seriously need to get your act together...

I remember Zendegi saying that. 

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6 hours ago, silasun said:

@Christianlady

Iran does not permit mixed gender swimming in public- that is because it is not allowed in Islam. It is not oppressive and, with respect, Muslim women do not need other people to tell them if Islam is or is not oppressive- Islam is not oppressive to women so I don't think any Muslim women here really care about [your] opinions about Muslim women :) .

Since when were women in Iran banned from swimming?! You guys seriously need to get your act together...

Islamic countries are very segregated. Boys over there. Girls over here. No mixing together.

However, they do allow for mixed marriages.  :shock:

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7 hours ago, silasun said:

@Christianlady

Iran does not permit mixed gender swimming in public- that is because it is not allowed in Islam. It is not oppressive and, with respect, Muslim women do not need other people to tell them if Islam is or is not oppressive- Islam is not oppressive to women so I don't think any Muslim women here really care about [your] opinions about Muslim women :) .

Since when were women in Iran banned from swimming?! You guys seriously need to get your act together...

+1

As I pointed in my earlier in my post women usually have their own areas that they can swim in. In no way are they banned.

They are banned from swimming in the mixed areas of the beach.

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On 8/27/2016 at 11:45 AM, silasun said:

@ChristianladyIran does not permit mixed gender swimming in public- that is because it is not allowed in Islam.

Sala Silasun,

Please quote in the Qur'an or hadiths where mixed gender swimming in public is not allowed in Islam. Out of curiosity, do you believe NotMe, a wonderful Muslim lady, is sinning if she goes and swims with her male family members at a public beach?

Notme wrote and I quote:

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I don't know what kind of beaches some of you have been to, but every beach I've visited was occupied mostly by families. I've even met other Muslim families and Amish families at the beach.

Are you saying that Muslim families who go to the beach and swim in the water together are sinning?
 

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It is not oppressive and, with respect,

 

You are entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to my opinion. To me, forcing women and men to not swim together is oppressive, same as forcing women to not vote is oppressive. The USA used to have oppressive rules where women were not allowed to vote and do many other things that men were able to do. Thank God, that has changed. The oppression of women in US history is not the fault of Christianity, same as oppression of women in Iran is not the fault of Islam.

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Muslim women do not need other people to tell them if Islam is or is not oppressive-Islam is not oppressive to women so I don't think any Muslim women here really care about [your] opinions about Muslim women :) .

My Muslim friends in the USA enjoy going to the beach with their families. They are free to go to the beach and even swim with their husbands, sons, and parents. They are not degraded by being forced to stay away from their male relatives. Do you honestly think they are going against Islam by Muslim Dads teaching their Muslim daughters how to swim???

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Since when were women in Iran banned from swimming?! You guys seriously need to get your act together...

I don't know since when, but I'm thankful I live in a country where my Dad taught my sisters me how to swim and it wasn't illegal! :) My Dad also taught my sisters and me to hike in the mountains, to fish, and how to camp in the woods. I personally believe my Dad is one of the best Dads in the whole world.

Out of curiosity, if you have a daughter, do you teach her anything? 

Peace and God bless you

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On 8/27/2016 at 7:42 PM, Zendegi said:

+1

Salam Zendegi,

Do you have a daughter? If so, do you teach her any skills such as swimming, hiking, or fishing? Yes or no, and why/why not?

My Dad taught my sisters and me how to swim, hike, and fish. Why? Because he's one of the most awesome Dads ever, and he has the freedom to teach his daughters these skills. Why? Because we live in a country where genders are not segregated in public places, such as beaches, lakes, national parks, and so forth.
 

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As I pointed in my earlier in my post women usually have their own areas that they can swim in. In no way are they banned.

They are banned from swimming in the mixed areas of the beach.

 

It doesn't help families when families are separated via gender. If my family had been separated by gender, my Dad and I would not be good friends like we are today. Why? Because we wouldn't have spent a lot of time together, and I would not have had the honor of learning a lot from my Dad.

My Muslim friends in the USA greatly benefit from going to beaches and lakes and national parks together, enjoying their time there together both in and out of the water. There's a reason why national parks, restaurants, churches, and public places are not segregated via gender, and it's because families enjoy being together.

Why go somewhere public where a member of one's family is not allowed because of his or her gender? That's like how people with black and brown skin used to be segregated from whites. Segregation is from an age of oppression, whether segregated by skin color or gender, and is not healthy for a developed, advanced country.

Peace and God bless you

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