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In the Name of God بسم الله
Fahad Sani

If mawla=leader/caliph then Ali is not your mawla

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:bismillah:

:salam:

 

If by word mawla at ghadir means leader/caliph/imam then Ali a.s is not your Mawla.

According to twelver shia Imamate concept, Prophet s.a.w.w had appointed Ali a.s mawla (leader/caliph/suucessor/imam) after him at ghadir. And there are twelve such mawla (leaders/caliphs/suucessors/imams) after Prophet s.a.w.w till the day of qiyamah. And every person has to recognize Mawla/Imam of his time. Isra 71 says: One day We shall call together all human beings with their respective Imams.

Based on these principles, Ali a.s was mawla i.e leader/Imam/caliph only for people of his time.

Ali a.s, the first of the Twelve Imams, died in the year 40. His son Hassan a.s died nine years later, in 49. If Ali a.s is the Imam for the people of his time, Hassan a.s is left with only those people who were born during his nine years. All the other people of his time who were alive during his father's time will form part of his father's group, and not his. The tenure of the 3rd Imam lasted for 22 years; the 4th for 34 years; the 5th for 19 years; the 6th for 34 years; the 7th for 35 years; the 8th for 20 years; the 9th for 17 years; the 10th for 34 years; and the 11th for only 6 years. And with the 12th Imam, we have a tenure of Imamah that has been running for over 1200 years. The group that will supposedly be called by the name of the 11th Imam, for example, will only include people that were born during his Imamah that ran from 254 up to 260, rest of all till qiyamah will be called by the name of 12th Imam.

Therefore since 260AH till today and till the qiyamah, 12th Imam was, is and will be the Mawla (leader/caliph) for all people (as per twelver shia concept). They all will be called and idetified by his name on qiyamah not by the name of Ali a.s. He was mawla (leader/imam) only till 40AH and for people of his time only.

 

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2 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Isra 71 says: One day We shall call together all human beings with their respective Imams.

^ Can someone confrim this translation? I see the following online;

"

[Mention, O Muhammad], the Day We will call forth every people with their record [of deeds]. Then whoever is given his record in his right hand - those will read their records, and injustice will not be done to them, [even] as much as a thread [inside the date seed].

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14. in the name of God

Salam brother;

    As you mentioned the Holy] Qur'an says, "The day We shall summon every group of people with their imam…"  17:71       "يَوْمَ نَدْعُو كُلَّ أُنَاسٍ بِإِمَامِهِمْ"                                                

    There are two kinds of leaders and Imams; leaders of guidance and leaders of misguidance. Everyone will be resurrected with one who chosen as leader and Imam. As Shias nowadays are followers of Imam Mahdi (a.s) they will be gathered in the hereafter with him. It has been narrated from Imam Reza who narrated a Hadith from previous Imams from the prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h), " in the day of judgement everyone will be called to Imam of his time, to the Holy Book and to his prophet's manners". We have to notice that people will be resurrected with everyone who is followed and obeyed. Of course, all people will be gathered with his Imam but it is noteworthy that we also believe in other 11 Imams before Imam of the Time. We love them, we obey them and we follow them. The doctrines and teachings we got from them are the same with no difference.

    This verse is not contradicted with the fact that the other 11 Imams are shias' as well. The important thing here is that our Imams are all united light. Their mission was the same. They all invited people, called them and guided them to the right and strait path which is the message of prophet Muhammad from his Lord.  

    Under this verse late Tabresi in his prominent Tafsir, Jawami' al-Jami', says , " the meaning of Imam in this verse is leader and a person who is followed i.g. infallible Imams, prophets, and holy Books" then narrates a hadith from Imam Saddiq that said, "don't you thank God when resurrection and judgement day comes, every nation will be called and invited to those whom or that they loved in the material world; we will go toward Allah and you cry and call us. Then you think where you will be taken. I swear by God that you will enter paradise.(1)

Ali ibn Ibrahim al- Qummi in his Tafsir named Tafsir al- Qummi for the interpretation of this verse says, "in the day of judgement a caller calling the certain person to stand along with his followers … and the Ali (a.s) with his followers and his shias. (2)

 

  1. الا تحمدون اللَّه؟ اذا كان يوم القيمة فدعى كل قوم الى من يتولونه و فزعنا الى رسول اللَّه صلى اللَّه عليه و آله و فزعتم الينا، فالى اين ترون يذهب بكم؟ الى الجنة و رب الكعبة.

  2. ذلك يوم القيامة ينادي مناد ليقم فلان و شيعته و فلان و شيعته و فلان و شيعته و علي و شيعته.

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5 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

If by word mawla at ghadir means leader/caliph/imam then Ali a.s is not your Mawla.

So, this is "Fahad Sani" and Co new strategy. Fellows, have a team hurdle/meeting, before you handle a subject. It seems you just throw anything hoping something will stick. and create "Doubt'(s)". Not doing a good job, except, I have to figure out, how many theories(sub theories) you ( & you')are working on for your own Narrative(s). Come up with a Universal Theory for your self before you Inform/Teach us anything. 

 

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Man, dont you get it?

It doesnt matter if we are called with Imam Ali (a.s) or Imam Hussain (a.s) or Al-Qa'im (a.s). As long as we are raised with one of them, we know for a fact we will be raised with All of them - and thus raised with the Prophet (pbuh) and his followers.

(Ameen, ya Rab!)

Its a package deal, friend. 

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Prophet s.a.w.w is my mawla (beloved and dearest one) and in the same way Ali a.s is my mawla (beloved and dearest one).
 
I said if by mawla mean leader/caliph etc then Ali a.s is not mawla of anyone today. He was mawla in this meaning only till 40 AH. Then Imam Hassan a.s became mawla (leader/suuccesor/caliph) and so on, according to twelver shias. True or not?

Here is the major evidence.

Ghadir was an event that took place in the year 11 AH, after that the words “Man Kuntu Mawlahu” were not heard again in the near future, they were not heard when Abu Bakr usurped the Caliphate (according to the Shias). They were not heard when Abu Bakr was on his deathbed and appointed Umar as a successor. They were not heard when Umar was on his deathbed and included Ali with five other candidates to Khilafah. They were not heard when Uthman was killed and the Khawarij were looking for a new Caliph. They were not even heard during the wars of Ali and the internal wars between the Muslims. No, they were heard merely a hundred days before the death of Ali during his reign as Caliph.

Fitr bin Khalifah testified that this event occurred only a hundred days before the death of Ali. See Saheeh Ibn Hibban #7057. In other words, this event occurred way after the battles of Al-Jamal, Siffeen, and Al-Nahrawan, which puts to rest the idea that Ali was attempting to prove his legitimacy by quoting the narration of the Prophet (saws), since Al-Nahrawan occurred in the year 39 AH, and Ali died in Ramadan, 40 AH. Even Amir bin Wathilah first heard of this narration at Rahbah as is clear from his narration, then he went to ask Zayd and verify.

Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah (Hadith #28 of the Chapter of the Merits of Ali) says that this was done when Ali heard that people were “Yataqawaloon Feeh,” meaning "they spoke badly of him".

Furthermore, entire nahjul balagha is free from hadith of ghadir (isn't it), which is divine appointment according to twelvers (strange). I wonder why Ali a.s did not mention this in any of his sermons. In reality he used this hadith only once, hundered days before his demise and at that time he was already a caliph/leader. Strange, really strange.

Therefore we can safely say that Ali a.s  (including all prominent sahabah) did not understand the Hadith of Ghadir to be an appointment of successor/leader. If that was the case, then he has definitely missed out on several key opportunities.


Peace be upon our master and leader Muhammad, and upon his family and companions and those who followed them in goodness.

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The meaning of love, friendship and closeness is what seems to be the closest to the truth based on the context, since Rasul-Allah s.a.w.w said right after it “O Allah befriend whomever befriends him and be an enemy to whoever is his enemy.” And Muwalat (Love/Friendship) opposes Mu'adat (Hatred/Enmity), along with verse 6 of Surah Ahzab (Prophet is awla).

-Mawla means a close-friend, the word itself implies closeness in all of its meanings whether describing a bond between relatives or the relation of a slave to his master, so he (saw) could be simply telling them that whoever considers him (saw) as a close friend or Wali, then he must also be like that with Ali. Similarly to what we call the pious believers, we say they’re “Awliya of Allah” the singular of which is Wali, meaning close friends of Allah.

-Mawla means a beloved person, similar to the above he could be ordering them to love Ali just as they loved him, and thus the feelings of hatred they had for him would disappear, this is why Buraydah said: “After hearing these words, Ali became the most beloved of people to me.”

-Mawla may mean al-Wala’-fil-Deen, meaning the obligatory love and closeness that a believer must have towards another, or the love and closeness between those who share the same faith and religion, this is similar to the Qur’anic verse {The believing men and the believing women are Awliya’ to one another}, so whoever is of this faith and has this type of love towards the Prophet (saw) must also have it towards `Ali as declared in the Qur’an.

-Mawla means ally, and the ally in the language of the Arabs is the one who joins you and is strengthened by your strength and gets more power when you’re powerful, this is the blessing which the Muslims received by embracing this faith and  following this Prophet (saw), such as the saying of `Umar: “We are people whom Allah strengthened with this religion, so if we seek strength by any other means He shall disgrace us.” Thus the Prophet (saw) is telling them that whoever considers himself his ally, must also be `Ali’s ally.

-Mawla means supporter, the support in religion, like protecting and guarding and supporting one another as believers, such as the saying of Allah {Allah is the Mawla(supporter) of those who believed while the disbelievers have no Mawla} and {But if you cooperate against him – then indeed Allah is his Mawla(supporter), and Gabriel and the righteous of the believers and the angels, moreover, are his assistants.} And so the Prophet (saw) informed them that whomever claims to have Walayah towards him must also have Walayah for Ali since they are all believers and must all support each-other in their religion.

-Mawla means Awla, or that he is nearer to the believers and closer to the believers than themselves, meaning he is more worthy of being loved by the believers than their own selves, and by doing so he (saw) would have granted `Ali a higher form of love than what is usually asked of the believers among each other.


Peace be upon our master and leader Muhammad, and upon his family and companions and those who followed them in goodness.

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