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In the Name of God بسم الله

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asslamoalaikum,

There are many arguments from Quran and Sunnah which prove beyond the shadow of any doubt that Imamat/Calphate/Leadership are divine institutions. This is main flashpoint between Shia and Sunni school of thought. Many examples of divine appointment of Imam/Caliph can be sited from Quran and Sunnah whereas Sunni view about caliphate/imamat is quite vague and confused one which finds no support from Quran and Sunnah (ant its proven many times). Even within Sunni schools of thought there are huge differences about the view of caliphate/imamat.

One important and dangerous point regarding this basic difference between Shia and Sunnis is that Shia take Imamat/Caliphate as religious issue while Sunnis (though do not say it verbally) take caliphate/imamat as non-religious issue. The reason is the same because Shia take Imamat as "divine" hence take it as part of religion while Sunni take it as result of Shuru (consultation) has can not convince others that its a religious issue.

Irrespective of the fact that Shia try to prove Imamat/Caliphate being divine institution from Quran and Sunnah and Sunnis deny this and try to prove otherwise, i would like to draw the attention of just minded Shias and Sunnis that can they place their right hand on their hearts and say that "A person can lead in an incident like Karbala without divine guidance?". The role of Imam is the protection of Islam and how beautifully Imam Hussain (a.s) performed this duty. It is not so because i am Shia hence i am saying that Imam Hussain a.s was definitely divinely appointed and divinely guided Imam who lead true Islam in Karbala. The roles of Imams (a.s) of each time show apparently that they were best of their time. A non divine imam can not be so perfect.

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2 hours ago, Aabiss_Shakari said:

asslamoalaikum,

There are many arguments from Quran and Sunnah which prove beyond the shadow of any doubt that Imamat/Calphate/Leadership are divine institutions. This is main flashpoint between Shia and Sunni school of thought. Many examples of divine appointment of Imam/Caliph can be sited from Quran and Sunnah whereas Sunni view about caliphate/imamat is quite vague and confused one which finds no support from Quran and Sunnah (ant its proven many times). Even within Sunni schools of thought there are huge differences about the view of caliphate/imamat.

W.salam Wa Rehmatullah

Can you just provide one argument from Quran and one from Sunnah. And it should be explicit in meaning, not ambiguous one?

 

3 hours ago, Aabiss_Shakari said:

One important and dangerous point regarding this basic difference between Shia and Sunnis is that Shia take Imamat/Caliphate as religious issue while Sunnis (though do not say it verbally) take caliphate/imamat as non-religious issue. The reason is the same because Shia take Imamat as "divine" hence take it as part of religion while Sunni take it as result of Shuru (consultation) has can not convince others that its a religious issue.

See letter 6 of Nahjul Balagha. And Surah Shoora 36-43

 

3 hours ago, Aabiss_Shakari said:

Irrespective of the fact that Shia try to prove Imamat/Caliphate being divine institution from Quran and Sunnah and Sunnis deny this and try to prove otherwise, i would like to draw the attention of just minded Shias and Sunnis that can they place their right hand on their hearts and say that "A person can lead in an incident like Karbala without divine guidance?". The role of Imam is the protection of Islam and how beautifully Imam Hussain (a.s) performed this duty. It is not so because i am Shia hence i am saying that Imam Hussain a.s was definitely divinely appointed and divinely guided Imam who lead true Islam in Karbala. The roles of Imams (a.s) of each time show apparently that they were best of their time. A non divine imam can not be so perfect.

No doubt about that Imam Hussain a.s was unique in everything. And following the sunnah of Imam Hussain a.s many other Imams from the ahlebayt also sacrificed their lives for the sake of Islam, like Zaid bin Ali bin Hussain bin Ali a.s, Nafs Zakkiya bin Abdullah bin Hassan bin Hassan bin Ali a.s and many others. And there are also narrations from Prophet s.a.w.w in their praise. Like the following. Taken from Uyun Akhbar Reza a.s, vol-1. ch: 25. For more refer the book.

On the authority of Abi Ja’far Muhammad ibn Ali Al-Baqir (a.s.), on the authority of his father, on the authority of Ali (a.s.) that God’s Prophet (S) told Al-Husayn (a.s.), “O Husayn! There will be a man from your progeny called Zayd. He and his companions will cross the rows of the people on the Resurrection Day with brilliant faces. They will enter Paradise without any reckoning.”

After Zayd left, As-Sadiq (a.s.) said, “Woe be to those who hear his call but do not help him!’”

 

Yes, a non divine Imam can not be so perfect. It means Imam Zaid bin Ali a.s was also divinly appointed as per your logic and understanding.

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9 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

See letter 6 of Nahjul Balagha. 

 

Letter 6: To Mu`awiyah (ibn Abi Sufyan)

ومن كتاب له (عليه السلام)

إلى معاوية

Verily, those who swore allegiance to Abu Bakr, `Umar and `Uthman have sworn allegiance 1 to me on the same basis on which they swore allegiance to them. (On this basis) he who was present has no choice (to consider), and he who was absent has no right to reject; and consultation is confined to the muhajirun and the ansar. If they agree on an individual and take him to be Caliph it will be deemed to mean Allah's pleasure.

If any one keeps away by way of objection or innovation they will return him to the position from where he kept away. If he refuses they will fight him for following a course other than that of the believers and Allah will put him back from where he had run away.

By my life, O Mu'awiyah, if you see with your intellect without any passion you will find me the most innocent of all in respect of `Uthman's blood and you will surely know that I was in seclusion from him, unless you conceal what is quite open to you (and accuse me of a crime I have not committed). Then you may commit any outrage (on me) as you wish and that is an end to the matter.

إِنَّهُ بَايَعَنِي الْقَوْمُ الَّذِينَ بَايَعُوا أَبَا بَكْر وَعُمَرَ وَعُثْمانَ عَلَى مَا بَايَعُوهُمْ عَلَيْهِ، فَلَمْ يَكُنْ لِلشَّاهِدِ أَنْ يَخْتَارَ، وَلاَ لِلغَائِبِ أَنْ يَرُدَّ، وَإنَّمَا الشُّورَى لِلْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَالاْنْصَارِ، فَإِنِ اجْتَمَعُوا عَلَى رَجُل وَسَمَّوْهُ إِمَاماً كَانَ ذلِكَ لله رِضىً، فَإِنْ خَرَجَ عَنْ أَمْرِهِمْ خَارِجٌ بِطَعْن أَوْبِدْعَة رَدُّوهُ إِلَى مَاخَرَجَ منه، فَإِنْ أَبَى قَاتَلُوهُ عَلَى اتِّبَاعِهِ غَيْرَ سَبِيلِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ، وَوَلاَّهُ اللهُ مَا تَوَلَّى.

وَلَعَمْرِي، يَا مُعَاوِيَةُ، لَئِنْ نَظَرْتَ بِعَقْلِكَ دُونَ هَوَاكَ لَتَجِدَ نِّي أَبْرَأَ النَّاسِ مِنْ دَمِ عُثْمانَ، وَلَتَعْلَمَنَّ أَنِّي كُنْتُ فِي عُزْلَة عَنْهُ، إِلاَّ أَنْ تَتَجَنَّى ; فَتَجَنَّ مَا بَدَا لَكَ! وَالسَّلاَمُ.

1. When all the people of Medina unanimously swore allegiance to Amir al-mu`minin, Mu`awiyah refused to acquiesce apprehending danger for his own power, and in order to contest Amir al-mu'minin's caliphate he concocted the excuse that it had not been agreed to unaulmously and that there fore after cancelling it there should be another general election, although the caliphate from which (the process of) election was started was the result of a timely situation. There was no question of the common vote therein so that it could be called the result of the people's election. However, it was imposed on the people and assumed to be their verdict. From then it became a principle that whomever the nobles of Medina elected would be deemed to represent the entire world of Islam and no person would be allowed to question it, whether he was present at the time of election or not. In any case, after the establishment of the principle, Mu`awiyah had no right to propose a re-election nor to refuse allegiance when he had in practice recognized these caliphates which, it was alleged, had been settled by the important people of Medina. That is why when he held this election to be invalid and refused allegiance,
Amir al-mu'minin pointed out to him the (recognized) way of election and demolished his argument. It was a method known as arguing with the adversary on the basis of his wrong premises so as to demolish his argument, since Amir al-mu'minin never at any state regarded consultation (with chiefs) or the common vote to be the criterion of validity of the caliphate. Otherwise, in connection with the caliphate about which it is alleged that they were based on the unanimity of the muhajirun and the ansar, he would have regarded that unanimity of vote as a good authority and held them as valid; but his refusal for allegiance in the very first period, which cannot be denied by anyone, is a proof of the fact that he did not regard these self-concocted methods as the criterion of (validity of) the caliphate. That is why at all times he continued pressing his own case for the caliphate, which was also established on the basis of the Prophet's saying and deeds. However, to place it before Mu`awiyah meant opening the door to questions and answers. He therefore attempted to convince him with his own premises and beliefs so that there could be no scope for interpretation or for confusing the matter, in fact Mu'awiyah's real aim was to prolong the matter so that at some point his own authority might get support."]

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-6-muawiyah-ibn-abi-sufyan

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10 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

W.salam Wa Rehmatullah

Can you just provide one argument from Quran and one from Sunnah. And it should be explicit in meaning, not ambiguous one?

"And their prophet said unto those elders: [237] "Behold, now God has raised up Saul to be your king." They said: "How can he have dominion over us when we have a better claim to dominion than he, and he has not [even] been endowed with abundant wealth?" [The prophet] replied: "Behold, God has exalted him above you, and endowed him abundantly with knowledge and bodily perfection. And God bestows His dominion [238] upon whom He wills: for God is infinite, all-knowing." (2:247)

Here is one such example from Quran.

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10 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

 And Surah Shoora 36-43

وَالَّذِينَ اسْتَجَابُوا لِرَبِّهِمْ وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَأَمْرُهُمْ شُورَىٰ بَيْنَهُمْ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنْفِقُونَ {38}

[Pickthal 42:38] And those who answer the call of their Lord and establish worship, and whose affairs are a matter of counsel, and who spend of what We have bestowed on them,
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 42:38]

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

["Consultation is to be made in the matters of personal relationship, not in the affairs of the society, that too when clear command of Allah or verdict of the Holy Prophet is not available. To administer and guide the collective as well as the individual life, all the commands of Allah and the Holy Prophet have to be followed in letter and spirit. Legislation and administration are not left to the mutual consultation of the people. Refer to the commentary of Ali Imran: 159 and Nisa: 59. The ulil amr may consult people to win their good will, otherwise he has to follow the laws made by Allah to make his final decision.

After the departure of the Holy Prophet, while his true duly appointed successor, Ali ibn abi Talib (see commentary of Ma-idah: 67) was busy with the arrangements for his burial, the muhajirin of Makka and the ansar of Madina assembled at Saqifa Bani Sa-da to prove their respective merits. The muhajirin claimed preference in view of their priority in Islam and their kinship with the Holy Prophet. The ansar referred to their help and support to establish his mission. No one mentioned the historic fact that a few month ago the Holy Prophet had irrevocably nominated Ali as his divinely elected successor. Refer to "The Early History of Islam" by Sayyid Safdar Husayn, published by our Trust, for full details of the drama enacted at Saqifa Bani Sa-da. It is said that Abu Bakr was elected as the caliph by consultation and consensus among the companions.

Therefore many commentators interpret this verse to justify the farce staged to belie and reject the clear command of Allah conveyed by the Holy Prophet at Ghadir Khum" ]

http://quran.al-islam.org/

*****

BURIAL AND FAREWELL PREPARATIONS TO HIS HONOURABLE BODY:

["Dispute about who would succeed him (Peace be upon him) broke out even before having the Messenger of Allâh’s body prepared for burial. Lots of arguments, discussions, dialogues took place between the Helpers and Emigrants in the roofed passage (portico) of Bani Sa‘ida. Finally they acknowledged Abu Bakr"..".. as a caliph. They spent the whole Monday there till it was night. People were so busy with their arguments that it was late night — just about dawn of Tuesday — yet his blessed body was still lying on his bed covered with an inked-garment. He was locked in the room......"]

https://islamgreatreligion.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/the-journey-to-Allah-the-sublime-of-the-confederatessealed-nectar-chapter-40-life-of-muhammad/

Page: # 560-561

Book: The Sealed Nectar (Ar-Raheequl-Makhtum) [Revised Edition, January 2002]

Biography of the Noble Prophet 

Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri

Islamic University of Al Madinah Al Munawwarah :Publisher: Darussalam

*****

Narrated 'Aisha:

(the wife of the Prophet) Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) died while Abu Bakr was at a place called As-Sunah (Al-'Aliya) 'Umar stood up and said, "By Allah! Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) is not dead!" 'Umar (later on) said, "By Allah! Nothing occurred to my mind except that." He said, "Verily! Allah will resurrect him and he will cut the hands and legs of some men." Then Abu Bakr came and uncovered the face of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), kissed him and said, "Let my mother and father be sacrificed for you, (O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)), you are good in life and in death. By Allah in Whose Hands my life is, Allah will never make you taste death twice." Then he went out and said, "O oath-taker! Don't be hasty." When Abu Bakr spoke, 'Umar sat down. Abu Bakr praised and glorified Allah and said, No doubt! Whoever worshipped Muhammad, then Muhammad is dead, but whoever worshipped Allah, then Allah is Alive and shall never die." Then he recited Allah's Statement.:-- "(O Muhammad) Verily you will die, and they also will die." (39.30) He also recited:--

"Muhammad is no more than an Apostle; and indeed many Apostles have passed away, before him, If he dies Or is killed, will you then Turn back on your heels? And he who turns back On his heels, not the least Harm will he do to Allah And Allah will give reward to those Who are grateful." (3.144)

The people wept loudly, and the Ansar were assembled with Sad bin 'Ubada in the shed of Bani Saida. They said (to the emigrants). "There should be one 'Amir from us and one from you." Then Abu Bakr, Umar bin Al-Khattab and Abu 'baida bin Al-Jarrah went to them. 'Umar wanted to speak but Abu Bakr stopped him. 'Umar later on used to say, "By Allah, I intended only to say something that appealed to me and I was afraid that Abu Bakr would not speak so well. Then Abu Bakr spoke and his speech was very eloquent. He said in his statement, "We are the rulers and you (Ansars) are the ministers (i.e. advisers)," Hubab bin Al-Mundhir said, "No, by Allah we won't accept this. But there must be a ruler from us and a ruler from you." Abu Bakr said, "No, we will be the rulers and you will be the ministers, for they (i.e. Quarish) are the best family amongst the 'Arabs and of best origin. So you should elect either 'Umar or Abu 'Ubaida bin Al-Jarrah as your ruler." 'Umar said (to Abu Bakr), "No but we elect you, for you are our chief and the best amongst us and the most beloved of all of us to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)." So 'Umar took Abu Bakr's hand and gave the pledge of allegiance and the people too gave the pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr. Someone said, "You have killed Sad bin Ubada." 'Umar said, "Allah has killed him."

حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، حَدَّثَنَا سُلَيْمَانُ بْنُ بِلاَلٍ، عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ بْنِ الزُّبَيْرِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ ـ رضى الله عنها ـ زَوْجِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم مَاتَ وَأَبُو بَكْرٍ بِالسُّنْحِ ـ قَالَ إِسْمَاعِيلُ يَعْنِي بِالْعَالِيَةِ ـ فَقَامَ عُمَرُ يَقُولُ وَاللَّهِ مَا مَاتَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏ قَالَتْ وَقَالَ عُمَرُ وَاللَّهِ مَا كَانَ يَقَعُ فِي نَفْسِي إِلاَّ ذَاكَ وَلَيَبْعَثَنَّهُ اللَّهُ فَلَيَقْطَعَنَّ أَيْدِيَ رِجَالٍ وَأَرْجُلَهُمْ‏.‏ فَجَاءَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ فَكَشَفَ عَنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَبَّلَهُ قَالَ بِأَبِي أَنْتَ وَأُمِّي طِبْتَ حَيًّا وَمَيِّتًا، وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لاَ يُذِيقُكَ اللَّهُ الْمَوْتَتَيْنِ أَبَدًا‏.‏ ثُمَّ خَرَجَ فَقَالَ أَيُّهَا الْحَالِفُ عَلَى رِسْلِكَ‏.‏ فَلَمَّا تَكَلَّمَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ جَلَسَ عُمَرُ‏.‏ فَحَمِدَ اللَّهَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَأَثْنَى عَلَيْهِ وَقَالَ أَلاَ مَنْ كَانَ يَعْبُدُ مُحَمَّدًا صلى الله عليه وسلم فَإِنَّ مُحَمَّدًا قَدْ مَاتَ، وَمَنْ كَانَ يَعْبُدُ اللَّهَ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ حَىٌّ لاَ يَمُوتُ‏.‏ وَقَالَ ‏{‏إِنَّكَ مَيِّتٌ وَإِنَّهُمْ مَيِّتُونَ‏}‏ وَقَالَ ‏{‏وَمَا مُحَمَّدٌ إِلاَّ رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِنْ قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ أَفَإِنْ مَاتَ أَوْ قُتِلَ انْقَلَبْتُمْ عَلَى أَعْقَابِكُمْ وَمَنْ يَنْقَلِبْ عَلَى عَقِبَيْهِ فَلَنْ يَضُرَّ اللَّهَ شَيْئًا وَسَيَجْزِي اللَّهُ الشَّاكِرِينَ‏}‏ قَالَ فَنَشَجَ النَّاسُ يَبْكُونَ ـ قَالَ ـ وَاجْتَمَعَتِ الأَنْصَارُ إِلَى سَعْدِ بْنِ عُبَادَةَ فِي سَقِيفَةِ بَنِي سَاعِدَةَ فَقَالُوا مِنَّا أَمِيرٌ وَمِنْكُمْ أَمِيرٌ، فَذَهَبَ إِلَيْهِمْ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَعُمَرُ بْنُ الْخَطَّابِ وَأَبُو عُبَيْدَةَ بْنُ الْجَرَّاحِ، فَذَهَبَ عُمَرُ يَتَكَلَّمُ فَأَسْكَتَهُ أَبُو بَكْرٍ، وَكَانَ عُمَرُ يَقُولُ وَاللَّهِ مَا أَرَدْتُ بِذَلِكَ إِلاَّ أَنِّي قَدْ هَيَّأْتُ كَلاَمًا قَدْ أَعْجَبَنِي خَشِيتُ أَنْ لاَ يَبْلُغَهُ أَبُو بَكْرٍ، ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ فَتَكَلَّمَ أَبْلَغَ النَّاسِ فَقَالَ فِي كَلاَمِهِ نَحْنُ الأُمَرَاءُ وَأَنْتُمُ الْوُزَرَاءُ‏.‏ فَقَالَ حُبَابُ بْنُ الْمُنْذِرِ لاَ وَاللَّهِ لاَ نَفْعَلُ، مِنَّا أَمِيرٌ وَمِنْكُمْ أَمِيرٌ‏.‏ فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ لاَ، وَلَكِنَّا الأُمَرَاءُ وَأَنْتُمُ الْوُزَرَاءُ هُمْ أَوْسَطُ الْعَرَبِ دَارًا، وَأَعْرَبُهُمْ أَحْسَابًا فَبَايِعُوا عُمَرَ أَوْ أَبَا عُبَيْدَةَ‏.‏ فَقَالَ عُمَرُ بَلْ نُبَايِعُكَ أَنْتَ، فَأَنْتَ سَيِّدُنَا وَخَيْرُنَا وَأَحَبُّنَا إِلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏ فَأَخَذَ عُمَرُ بِيَدِهِ فَبَايَعَهُ، وَبَايَعَهُ النَّاسُ، فَقَالَ قَائِلٌ قَتَلْتُمْ سَعْدَ بْنَ عُبَادَةَ‏.‏ فَقَالَ عُمَرُ قَتَلَهُ اللَّهُ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3667, 3668

In-book reference : Book 62, Hadith 19

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 5, Book 57, Hadith 19

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/62/19

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Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar:

It was said to `Umar, "Will you appoint your successor?" `Umar said, "If I appoint a Caliph (as my successor) it is true that somebody who was better than I (i.e., Abu Bakr) did so, and if I leave the matter undecided, it is true that somebody who was better than I (i.e., Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)) did so." On this, the people praised him. `Umar said, "People are of two kinds: Either one who is keen to take over the Caliphate or one who is afraid of assuming such a responsibility. I wish I could be free from its responsibility in that I would receive neither reward nor retribution I won't bear the burden of the caliphate in my death as I do in my life."

حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ، أَخْبَرَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عُمَرَ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ قَالَ قِيلَ لِعُمَرَ أَلاَ تَسْتَخْلِفُ قَالَ إِنْ أَسْتَخْلِفْ فَقَدِ اسْتَخْلَفَ مَنْ هُوَ خَيْرٌ مِنِّي أَبُو بَكْرٍ، وَإِنْ أَتْرُكْ فَقَدْ تَرَكَ مَنْ هُوَ خَيْرٌ مِنِّي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَأَثْنَوْا عَلَيْهِ فَقَالَ رَاغِبٌ رَاهِبٌ، وَدِدْتُ أَنِّي نَجَوْتُ مِنْهَا كَفَافًا لاَ لِي وَلاَ عَلَىَّ لاَ أَتَحَمَّلُهَا حَيًّا وَمَيِّتًا‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 7218

In-book reference : Book 93, Hadith 78

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 9, Book 89, Hadith 325

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/93/78

It has been narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah b. 'Umar who said:

I was present with my father when he was wounded. People praised him and said: May God give you a noble recompense! He said: I am hopeful (of God's mercy) as well as afraid (of His wrath) People said: Appoint anyone as your successor. He said: Should I carry the burden of conducting your affairs in my life as well as in my death? (So far as Caliphate is concerned) I wish I could acquit myself (before the Almighty) in a way that there is neither anything to my credit nor anything to my discredit. If I would appoint my successor, (I would because) one better than me did so. (He meant Abu Bakr.) If I would leave You alone, (I would do so because) one better than me, i. e. the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), did so. 'Abdullah says: When he mentioned the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) I understood that he would not appoint anyone as Caliph.

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو كُرَيْبٍ، مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْعَلاَءِ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو أُسَامَةَ، عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ، قَالَ حَضَرْتُ أَبِي حِينَ أُصِيبَ فَأَثْنَوْا عَلَيْهِ وَقَالُوا جَزَاكَ اللَّهُ خَيْرًا ‏.‏ فَقَالَ رَاغِبٌ وَرَاهِبٌ قَالُوا اسْتَخْلِفْ فَقَالَ أَتَحَمَّلُ أَمْرَكُمْ حَيًّا وَمَيِّتًا لَوَدِدْتُ أَنَّ حَظِّي مِنْهَا الْكَفَافُ لاَ عَلَىَّ وَلاَ لِي فَإِنْ أَسْتَخْلِفْ فَقَدِ اسْتَخْلَفَ مَنْ هُوَ خَيْرٌ مِنِّي - يَعْنِي أَبَا بَكْرٍ - وَإِنْ أَتْرُكْكُمْ فَقَدْ تَرَكَكُمْ مَنْ هُوَ خَيْرٌ مِنِّي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏.‏ قَالَ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ فَعَرَفْتُ أَنَّهُ حِينَ ذَكَرَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم غَيْرُ مُسْتَخْلِفٍ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1823 a

In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 13

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 20, Hadith 4485

http://sunnah.com/muslim/33/13

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18 hours ago, Abu-Jafar Herz said:

Mr. Fahad, I have a question for you. When Ibrahim (as) was tested by Allan in order to become an imam was this done by shura with his people voting him in or did Allan designate him in the Quran ?

Allah Himself made him Imam. And before being Imam he was already Prophet of Allah.

[Baqrah 124] And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

How this verse is related with twelver shia imamate concept?

 

16 hours ago, Aabiss_Shakari said:

"And their prophet said unto those elders: [237] "Behold, now God has raised up Saul to be your king." They said: "How can he have dominion over us when we have a better claim to dominion than he, and he has not [even] been endowed with abundant wealth?" [The prophet] replied: "Behold, God has exalted him above you, and endowed him abundantly with knowledge and bodily perfection. And God bestows His dominion [238] upon whom He wills: for God is infinite, all-knowing." (2:247)

Here is one such example from Quran.

 

But how he became their king? Read verse 246 also.

[Baqrah 246]
Have you not considered the assembly of the Children of Israel after [the time of] Moses when they said to a prophet of theirs, "Send to us a king, and we will fight in the way of Allah"? He said, "Would you perhaps refrain from fighting if fighting was prescribed for you?" They said, "And why should we not fight in the cause of Allah when we have been driven out from our homes and from our children?" But when fighting was prescribed for them, they turned away, except for a few of them. And Allah is Knowing of the wrongdoers.

He was made king due to demand of people so that they can do jihad. Thus their Prophet appointed saul. On which people argued. Its same like When Prophet s.a.w.w appointed zaid bin harith as leader for battle of mutah, to which some people also objected. But Allah's will was with zaid. Later his son Usamah was appointed as leader by Prophet s.a.w.w but he was not his successor.

 

 

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17 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Verily, those who swore allegiance to Abu Bakr, `Umar and `Uthman have sworn allegiance 1 to me on the same basis on which they swore allegiance to them. (On this basis) he who was present has no choice (to consider), and he who was absent has no right to reject; and consultation is confined to the muhajirun and the ansar. If they agree on an individual and take him to be Caliph it will be deemed to mean Allah's pleasure.

If any one keeps away by way of objection or innovation they will return him to the position from where he kept away. If he refuses they will fight him for following a course other than that of the believers and Allah will put him back from where he had run away.

By my life, O Mu'awiyah, if you see with your intellect without any passion you will find me the most innocent of all in respect of `Uthman's blood and you will surely know that I was in seclusion from him, unless you conceal what is quite open to you (and accuse me of a crime I have not committed). Then you may commit any outrage (on me) as you wish and that is an end to the matter.

@S.M.H.A.

Brother I said read letter 6 and shura 36-43, not the commentary of any scholar. Read and try to understand yourself first. :book:

Do copy paste only when needed, not all the time. No one has time to go through all such stuff. I hope you can understand and will not mind my words.

Edited by Fahad Sani

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3 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Allah Himself made him Imam. And before being Imam he was already Prophet of Allah.

[Baqrah 124] And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

How this verse is related with twelver shia imamate concept?

So the Quran clearly mentions that the Prophet Ibrahim was chosen as Imam by Allah and not by the people.

Also the Duran instructs the Prophet Muhammad saww to follow the religion of ibrahim. in other words the prophet has been instructed to follow the religion of imam selected by Allah swt. This provides the clear evidence that the religion should be followed which is based on the Imams appointed by Allah swt and not by the people.

What are the characteristics of the religion of Ibrahim that we should follow as per verses of quran? we need to explore further and this has been carried out in the following:

QURAN:

أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ ۚ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللَّهِ لَوَجَدُوا فِيهِ اخْتِلَافًا كَثِيرًا
1. Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction. (4:82)

كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ إِلَيْكَ مُبَارَكٌ لِّيَدَّبَّرُوا آيَاتِهِ وَلِيَتَذَكَّرَ أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ
2.  [This is] a blessed Book which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], that they might reflect upon its verses and that those of understanding would be reminded. (38:29)

ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ اللَّهَ نَزَّلَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ ۗ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِي الْكِتَابِ لَفِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ
3. That is [deserved by them] because Allah has sent down the Book in truth. And indeed, those who differ over the Book are in extreme dissension.(2:176)

IBRAHIM  AS AND HIS RELIGION  IN QURAN:

- وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ دِينًا مِّمَّنْ أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لِلَّهِ وَهُوَ مُحْسِنٌ وَاتَّبَعَ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا ۗ وَاتَّخَذَ اللَّهُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ خَلِيلًا
4. And who is better in religion than one who submits himself to Allah while being a doer of good and follows the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth? And Allah took Abraham as an intimate friend. (4:125)

قُلْ صَدَقَ اللَّهُ ۗ فَاتَّبِعُوا مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
5. Say, " Allah has told the truth. So follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of the polytheists." (3:95)

Thus Quran instruct us to follow the Religion of Ibrahim.

وَإِبْرَاهِيمَ إِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ وَاتَّقُوهُ ۖ ذَٰلِكُمْ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ
6. And [We sent] Abraham, when he said to his people, "Worship Allah and fear Him. That is best for you, if you should know. (29:16)

وَاذْكُرْ فِي الْكِتَابِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ ۚ إِنَّهُ كَانَ صِدِّيقًا نَّبِيًّا
7. And mention in the Book [the story of] Abraham. Indeed, he was a man of truth and a prophet. (19:41)

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا ۖ قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي ۖ قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ
8. And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a leader for the people."[Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers." (2:124)

إِنَّ إِبْرَاهِيمَ كَانَ أُمَّةً قَانِتًا لِّلَّهِ حَنِيفًا وَلَمْ يَكُ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
9. Indeed, Abraham was a [comprehensive] leader, devoutly obedient to Allah , inclining toward truth, and he was not of those who associate others with Allah . (16:120)

The Religion of Ibrahim has concepts of worshiping Allah, Prophet hood and Leader (Imam) chosen by Allah.

قُلْ إِنَّنِي هَدَانِي رَبِّي إِلَىٰ صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ دِينًا قِيَمًا مِّلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا ۚ وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
10. Say, "Indeed, my Lord has guided me to a straight path - a correct religion - the way of Abraham, inclining toward truth. And he was not among those who associated others with Allah ." (6:161)

فَأَقِمْ وَجْهَكَ لِلدِّينِ حَنِيفًا ۚ فِطْرَتَ اللَّهِ الَّتِي فَطَرَ النَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا ۚ لَا تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِ اللَّهِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ
11. So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah . That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know. (30:30)

إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللَّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللَّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ مِنْهَا أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ ۚ فَلَا تَظْلِمُوا فِيهِنَّ أَنفُسَكُمْ ۚ وَقَاتِلُوا الْمُشْرِكِينَ كَافَّةً كَمَا يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ كَافَّةً ۚ وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ
12. Indeed, the number of months with Allah is twelve [lunar] months in the register of Allah [from] the day He created the heavens and the earth; of these, four are sacred. That is the correct religion, so do not wrong yourselves during them. And fight against the disbelievers collectively as they fight against you collectively. And know that Allah is with the righteous [who fear Him]. (9:36)

The Religion of Ibrahim is called as Correct Religion. It has concept of   12 Months out of those 4 are sacred. Its explanation from saying of Imam is given below:

In a tradition on the authority of Jabir (ra), Imam Muhammad al-Baqir, the fifth Imam of Ahlul-Bait, interprets the above verse (sr no. 12) which is as follows:

Jabir said: I asked Imam Muhammad al-Baqir about the meaning of the verse: "Verily the number of the months … (9:36).”He (as) breathed long (out of sorrow) and said: "O Jabir, The ‘year’ is my grandfather, the messenger of Allah (S), and his family are its ‘months’ who are the twelve Imams, and are … (naming the Imams one by one). They are the Proofs of Allah on His creation, and Trusties of His revelations and His knowledge. And Those of ‘four sacred who are the firm religion’ are those four who have the same name, and are ‘Ali, the Commander of Faithful (as), and my father ‘Ali Ibn al-Husayn (as), and later ‘Ali Ibn Musa (as), and ‘Ali Ibn Muhammad (as). Thus acknowledging these four is ‘the firm religion, so wrong not your souls in them’ and believe in all of them to be guided."

Shi’i Reference: Kitab al-Ghaiba, by Shaikh Tusi..

Thus the religion of Ibrahim means following the 12 imams from Pure Progeny of the prophet Muhammad saw after him.

سَلَامٌ عَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ
13. "Peace upon Abraham." (37:109)

إِنَّ اللَّهَ اصْطَفَىٰ آدَمَ وَنُوحًا وَآلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَآلَ عِمْرَانَ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ    
14. Indeed, Allah chose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of 'Imran over the worlds  (3:33)

أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِم مِّنَ النَّبِيِّينَ مِن ذُرِّيَّةِ آدَمَ وَمِمَّنْ حَمَلْنَا مَعَ نُوحٍ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّةِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْرَائِيلَ وَمِمَّنْ هَدَيْنَا وَاجْتَبَيْنَا ۚ إِذَا تُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُ الرَّحْمَٰنِ خَرُّوا سُجَّدًا وَبُكِيًّا ۩
15. Those were the ones upon whom Allah bestowed favor from among the prophets of the descendants of Adam and of those We carried [in the ship] with Noah, and of the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and of those whom We guided and chose. When the verses of the Most Merciful were recited to them, they fell in prostration and weeping. (19:58)

شَرَعَ لَكُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا وَصَّىٰ بِهِ نُوحًا وَالَّذِي أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ وَمَا وَصَّيْنَا بِهِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ ۖ أَنْ أَقِيمُوا الدِّينَ وَلَا تَتَفَرَّقُوا فِيهِ ۚ كَبُرَ عَلَى الْمُشْرِكِينَ مَا تَدْعُوهُمْ إِلَيْهِ ۚ اللَّهُ يَجْتَبِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يَشَاءُ وَيَهْدِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يُنِيبُ
16. He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back [to Him]. (42:13)

إِنَّ أَوْلَى النَّاسِ بِإِبْرَاهِيمَ لَلَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوهُ وَهَٰذَا النَّبِيُّ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ۗ وَاللَّهُ وَلِيُّ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ
17. Indeed, the most worthy of Abraham among the people are those who followed him [in submission to Allah ] and this prophet, and those who believe [in his message]. And Allah is the ally of the believers. (3:68)

وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحًا وَإِبْرَاهِيمَ وَجَعَلْنَا فِي ذُرِّيَّتِهِمَا النُّبُوَّةَ وَالْكِتَابَ ۖ فَمِنْهُم مُّهْتَدٍ ۖ وَكَثِيرٌ مِّنْهُمْ فَاسِقُونَ
18. And We have already sent Noah and Abraham and placed in their descendants prophethood and scripture; and among them is he who is guided, but many of them are defiantly disobedient. (57:26)

قُلْ آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَالنَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ
19. Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him." (3:84)

قُولُوا آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ
20. Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." (2:136)

The above verses (19 & 20) indicate that every Muslim believes what has been revealed to the prophet Ibrahim and other prophets should be followed for being  Muslims ie follower of the correct religion..

ثُمَّ أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ أَنِ اتَّبِعْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا ۖ وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
21. Then We revealed to you, [O Muhammad], to follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of those who associate with Allah . (16:123)

إِنَّا أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ كَمَا أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَىٰ نُوحٍ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ مِن بَعْدِهِ ۚ وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَعِيسَىٰ وَأَيُّوبَ وَيُونُسَ وَهَارُونَ وَسُلَيْمَانَ ۚ وَآتَيْنَا دَاوُودَ زَبُورًا
22. Indeed, We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], as We revealed to Noah and the prophets after him. And we revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, the Descendants, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the book [of Psalms]. (4:163)

23. The above verses clarifies that the religion of Ibrahim has to be followed containing 12 leaders. The verse mentions exactly 12 names.

24. Hz Nuh As made an ark that saved the believers in the water storm.

The prophet has said:: An interesting statement is recorded from the Holy Prophet, in both Sunni and Shi’ite books on Traditions, which is the famous Tradition of Noah’s ark.
In this Tradition, Abu Dharr says, “The Prophet said, ‘My family is like Noah’s ark. Whoever uses it will be saved and whoever separates from it will drown.” (Mustadrak Halcam, vol.3, p. 151).
Noting that the ark of Noah is a place of refuge and a means of salvation for when the great storm comes, this truth becomes clear that the Islamic ummah will be saved in the storm which came after the death of the Prophet through the Ahlul Bayt.

25. Hz Ibrahim as was made leader / imam of mankind by Allah swt.

26. Hz Ismael name is mentioned at third place. The third Imam is hz Hussain as from the progeny of ismael, He was martyred in Kerbela with his family. This sacrifice is termed as zibeh Azeem.

27. Hz Ishaque and yaqub were also chosen as Imams.

And We gave him Isaac and Jacob in addition, and all [of them] We made righteous. And We made them leaders (Imams) guiding by Our command. And We inspired to them the doing of good deeds, establishment of prayer, and giving of zakah; and they were worshippers of Us. (21:72, 73)

28. The tribes (Asbat) are from the twelve sons of Jacob. There were twelve leaders chosen by Allah swt in their children known as bani Israel.

And We divided them into twelve descendant tribes [as distinct] nations. And We inspired to Moses when his people implored him for water, "Strike with your staff the stone," and there gushed forth from it twelve springs.(7:160)
And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. (5:12)

29. Similarly the other prophets are mentioned in quran They include:
وَعِيسَىٰ وَأَيُّوبَ وَيُونُسَ وَهَارُونَ وَسُلَيْمَانَ

30. The twelfth prophet mentioned is David.

[We said], "O David, indeed We have made you a successor (khalifa) upon the earth,so judge between the people in truth and do not follow [your own] desire, as it will lead you astray from the way of Allah ." Indeed, those who go astray from the way of Allah will have a severe punishment for having forgotten the Day of Account. (38:26)

 

The Prophet (S) said: "We (I and my family) are members of a household that Allah (SWT) has chosen for them the life of the Hereafter over the life of this world; and the members of my household (Ahlul-Bayt) shall suffer a great affliction and they shall be forcefully expelled from their homes after my death; then there will come people from the East carrying black flags, and they will ask for some good to be given to them, but they shall be refused service; as such, they will wage war and emerge victorious, and will be offered that which they desired in the first place, but they will refuse to accept it till they pass it to a man from my family (Ahlul-Bayt) appears to fill the Earth with justice as it has been filled with corruption. So whoever reaches that (time) ought to come to them even if crawling on the ice/snow since among them is the Vice-regent of Allah(Khalifatullah)             al-Mahdi."
References:
• Sunan Ibn Majah, v2, Tradition #4082,
• The History Tabari
• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, pp 250-251

31. The above verses confirm the presence of 12 leaders / imams in the nation of Muhammad who are chosen by Allah swt and they are to be followed,

32. O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. (4:59)

When the verse (4:59) was revealed, Jabir asked the Prophet (S): "We know Allah and the Prophet, but who are those vested with authority whose obedience has been conjoined to that of Allah and yourself?"
The Prophet (S) said: "They are my Caliphs and the Imams of Muslims after me.The first of them is ‘Ali; then al-Hasan; then al-Husayn; then ‘Ali son of al-Husayn; then Muhammad son of ‘Ali who has been mentioned ‘al-Baqir’ in the Torah (the old testament). O Jabir! You will meet him. When you see him, convey my greetings to him. He will be succeeded by his son, Ja’far al-Sadiq (the Truthful); then Musa son of Ja’far; then ‘Ali son of Musa; then Muhammad son of ‘Ali; then ‘Ali son of Muhammad; then al-Hasan son of ‘Ali. He will be followed by his son whose name and nick name will be the same as mine. He will be Proof of Allah (Hujjatullah) on the earth, and the one spared by Allah (Baqiyyatullah) to maintain the cause of faith among mankind. He shall conquer the whole world from the east to the west. So long will he remain hidden from the eyes of his followers and friends that the belief in his leadership will remain only in those hearts which have been tested by Allah for faith.".

Jabir said: "O Messenger of Allah! Will his followers benefit from his seclusion?”The Prophet said: "Yes! by Him who sent me with prophethood! They will be guided by his light, and benefit from his leadership during his seclusion, just as people benefit from the sun even though it is hidden in the clouds. O Jabir! This is from the hidden secrets of Allah and the treasured knowledge of Allah. So guard it except from the people who deserve to know.”(Kifayatul Athar, by al-Khazzaz, p53).

33.  The above beliefs are 12vers shia beliefs. Do we have confirmation that the Shia are following the religion of Ibrahim as per Quran?

 وَإِنَّ مِن شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْرَاهِيمَ
35. And indeed, among his follower (Shia)  was Abraham, (37:83)

36.  Thus confirming that the 12vers Shia are the followers of the Religion of Ibrahim, that  is the Religion to be followed by the Quran.

Edited by skamran110

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5 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

But how he became their king? Read verse 246 also.

[Baqrah 246]
Have you not considered the assembly of the Children of Israel after [the time of] Moses when they said to a prophet of theirs, "Send to us a king, and we will fight in the way of Allah"? He said, "Would you perhaps refrain from fighting if fighting was prescribed for you?" They said, "And why should we not fight in the cause of Allah when we have been driven out from our homes and from our children?" But when fighting was prescribed for them, they turned away, except for a few of them. And Allah is Knowing of the wrongdoers.

He was made king due to demand of people so that they can do jihad. Thus their Prophet appointed saul. On which people argued. Its same like When Prophet s.a.w.w appointed zaid bin harith as leader for battle of mutah, to which some people also objected. But Allah's will was with zaid. Later his son Usamah was appointed as leader by Prophet s.a.w.w but he was not his successor.

It is not the question how he made the king. The question is who nominated his Wilayah/Caliphate/Imamah. Did Allah reveal to prophet that "Let them select their ruler"? Off course not. This verse further strengthens my point that how faulty/wrong the public judgment is. They asked the prophet for a KING to fight battle but when fighting was prescribed to them "THEY TURNED AWAY".

How the people who ask for a King but later turned away from fight, can be trusted for appointment/nomination of an Imam? Thank you for bringing this ayat as argument against yourself.

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Allah Himself made him Imam. And before being Imam he was already Prophet of Allah.

[Baqrah 124] And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a Imam for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."

How this verse is related with twelver shia imamate concept?

 

Ibrahim [as] was indeed a prophet and messenger before becoming an Imam.

"And when Ibrahim was tried by his Lord with some statements, and he fulfilled them, He said, 'I will appoint you an Imam of mankind.' He (Ibrahim) asked, 'And of my offspring?'. He (Allah) replied, 'My Covenant shall not reach the wrongdoers"
~Quran 2:124

Ibrahim [as] was tested by Allah in order that he may become an Imam by his son Ismail [as]. Later on we see that Ibrahim [as] asks Allah to also include his descendants in this "pact of Imamah." 

So my question to you is this. If Ibrahim [as] who is a prophet and a messenger of Allah could not become an Imam unless tested by Allah and made into an Imam by Allah, what makes you think you can vote a man who wasn't a prophet nor a messenger into this office?

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Khalifa/Caliph/Vicegerent: a person exercising delegated power on behalf of

It is a practical impossibility for us,  to choose/assign  Allah(awj) Vicegerent for him.

Similarly it is a practical impossibility for us, to choose/assign a Vicegerent for the Prophets.

We Humans do not posses those capabilities.

Khalifa or the Vicegerent of the Prophet is our Imam(Leader).

And we can't choose our Imam on our own( for various obvious reason of conflict).


(Correct me if my  layman understanding is flawed).

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6 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Khalifa/Caliph/Vicegerent: a person exercising delegated power on behalf of

It is a practical impossibility for us,  to choose/assign  Allah(awj) Vicegerent for him.

Similarly it is a practical impossibility for us, to choose/assign a Vicegerent for the Prophets.

We Humans do not posses those capabilities.

Khalifa or the Vicegerent of the Prophet is our Imam(Leader).

And we can't choose our Imam on our own( for various obvious reason of conflict).


(Correct me if my  layman understanding is flawed).

MashAllah. May Allah bless you with HIs mercy indeed a very beautiful point. :)

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7 hours ago, Abu-Jafar Herz said:

Ibrahim [as] was indeed a prophet and messenger before becoming an Imam.

"And when Ibrahim was tried by his Lord with some statements, and he fulfilled them, He said, 'I will appoint you an Imam of mankind.' He (Ibrahim) asked, 'And of my offspring?'. He (Allah) replied, 'My Covenant shall not reach the wrongdoers"
~Quran 2:124

Ibrahim [as] was tested by Allah in order that he may become an Imam by his son Ismail [as]. Later on we see that Ibrahim [as] asks Allah to also include his descendants in this "pact of Imamah." 

So my question to you is this. If Ibrahim [as] who is a prophet and a messenger of Allah could not become an Imam unless tested by Allah and made into an Imam by Allah, what makes you think you can vote a man who wasn't a prophet nor a messenger into this office?

Very nice point brother. There is not even a single verse in Quran which suggests that Caliph/Imam can  be elected/selected/nominated by public.

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And We made them Imams who guided (people) by Our command, and We revealed to them the doing of good and the keeping up of prayer and the giving of the alms, and Us (alone) did they serve;[Quran 21:73]

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وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا ۖ قَالَ وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي ۖ قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ {124}

 

وَجَعَلْنَاهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْهِمْ فِعْلَ الْخَيْرَاتِ وَإِقَامَ الصَّلَاةِ وَإِيتَاءَ الزَّكَاةِ ۖ وَكَانُوا لَنَا عَابِدِينَ {73}

 

إِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً ۖ قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَنْ يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لَا تَعْلَمُونَ {30}
 

 

 

Edited by Abu-Jafar Herz

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People need to explain what they mean when they something is Divinely made so.

2:143
Sahih International
And thus we have made you a just community that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you. And We did not make the qiblah which you used to face except that We might make evident who would follow the Messenger from who would turn back on his heels. And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. And never would Allah have caused you to lose your faith. Indeed Allah is, to the people, Kind and Merciful.

The making of someone a leader is just as divine as the community was made just.

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هُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ ۖ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ ۗ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَبِّنَا ۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ {7}

[Pickthal 3:7] He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.

وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً ۖ قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَنْ يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لَا تَعْلَمُونَ {30}

[Pickthal 2:30] And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not.

First let’s get the concepts clear. Qur’an 3:7 & 2:30 & 2:124 . Before going into technicals Distractions which just serve a purpose of keeping doubts alive..(which, without clarity of concepts, will just be an exercise and no one will come out with a clear understanding- status quo will prevail). Not our interest to stay agnostic on important issues.

What is your understanding and definition of the Concept/Word: Khalifa/Caliph/Vicegerent?

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3 hours ago, GreatChineseFall said:

People need to explain what they mean when they something is Divinely made so.

2:143
Sahih International
And thus we have made you a just community that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you. And We did not make the qiblah which you used to face except that We might make evident who would follow the Messenger from who would turn back on his heels. And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. And never would Allah have caused you to lose your faith. Indeed Allah is, to the people, Kind and Merciful.

The making of someone a leader is just as divine as the community was made just.

Allah [swt] is saying that he has made us into a middle/just nation. This "making" is indeed divine since the verse is talking about revealed law/theology that we follow. When Allah says he "makes" something that means he is designating it and choosing it to be so.

Also it is common sense. If Ibrahim [as] who is a nabi could not become an imam without being tested and made into imam by Allah himself, how is it that we can vote someone in?

Edited by Abu-Jafar Herz

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3 hours ago, Abu-Jafar Herz said:

Allah [swt] is saying that he has made us into a middle/just nation. This "making" is indeed divine since the verse is talking about revealed law/theology that we follow. When Allah says he "makes" something that means he is designating it and choosing it to be so.

The problem is not what you call divine, the problem is the connotation it carries. For sunni's everything that happens is because Allah is choosing it to be so, if that is what is meant then there is no problem with calling something to be divine nor does there seem to be a prohibition then to do something as a result of consultation. What shia's actually mean is that it is by direct divine intervention or revelation with no human interference. In that case, just pointing to a verse saying that Allah has "made/assigned" something to be, doesnt prove the shia's understanding. I already don't see that in the verse about a community becoming just anyway, there are even clearer verses that show that it's not necessarily as the shia's say:

7:65
Sahih International
And to the 'Aad [We sent] their brother Hud. He said, "O my people, worship Allah ; you have no deity other than Him. Then will you not fear Him?"

 
7:66
Sahih International
Said the eminent ones who disbelieved among his people, "Indeed, we see you in foolishness, and indeed, we think you are of the liars."

 
7:67
Sahih International
[Hud] said, "O my people, there is not foolishness in me, but I am a messenger from the Lord of the worlds."

 
7:68
Sahih International
I convey to you the messages of my Lord, and I am to you a trustworthy adviser.

 
7:69
Sahih International
Then do you wonder that there has come to you a reminder from your Lord through a man from among you, that he may warn you? And remember when He made you successors after the people of Noah and increased you in stature extensively. So remember the favors of Allah that you might succeed.

It is clear from the verse that the disbelievers of 'Aad are spoken about and they are not Divinely chosen unless you mean that they were born and grew up with the permission of Allah which happens through the choices(influenced by consultation) and the marriages(also consultation) of their forefathers

6:112
Sahih International
And thus We have made for every prophet an enemy - devils from mankind and jinn, inspiring to one another decorative speech in delusion. But if your Lord had willed, they would not have done it, so leave them and that which they invent.

Here again, the enemies are not appointed through direct divine intervention or revelation, it's their disbelief and arrogance etc. that leads them to become enemies of prophets.

6:123
Sahih International
And thus We have placed within every city the greatest of its criminals to conspire therein. But they conspire not except against themselves, and they perceive [it] not.

Again, not in appointed, not in the sense shia's argue.

16:80
Sahih International
And Allah has made for you from your homes a place of rest and made for you from the hides of the animals tents which you find light on your day of travel and your day of encampment; and from their wool, fur and hair is furnishing and enjoyment for a time.

Tents do not rain from the sky nor is there proof people decided to make tents due to divine revelation, simply people consulting with each other to make them.

13:38
Sahih International
And We have already sent messengers before you and assigned to them wives and descendants. And it was not for a messenger to come with a sign except by permission of Allah . For every term is a decree.

Wives are chosen through consultation, there are no narrations that I know of that talk about how the Prophet saw was instructed to marry his wives. As a matter of fact, it doesnt matter for most of his wives as his marriage to Khadija was years before his Prophethood, so that couldnt have come through divine order.

 

Edited by GreatChineseFall

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35 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

In light of above, your understanding of this concept in Qur'an 2:30

The duties mankind has as revealed by Allah in the Qur'an (ie worshipping Allah, establishing justice and prohibiting corruption on earth)

37 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

& 2:124 

Being a leader is in of itsself a duty, so the duty of leading others to guidance

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16 minutes ago, GreatChineseFall said:

The duties mankind has as revealed by Allah in the Qur'an (ie worshipping Allah, establishing justice and prohibiting corruption on earth)

Being a leader is in of itsself a duty, so the duty of leading others to guidance

Did the Angels choose the Khalifa/Caliph/Vicegerent for Allah(awj)? 

Did the Prophet in 2:124 choose himself to the Imam(leader) for Allah(awj) creation? 

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Yusuf Ali
Their Prophet said to them: "Allah hath appointed Talut as king over you." They said: "How can he exercise authority over us when we are better fitted than he to exercise authority, and he is not even gifted, with wealth in abundance?" He said: "Allah hath Chosen him above you, and hath gifted him abundantly with knowledge and bodily prowess: Allah Granteth His authority to whom He pleaseth. Allah careth for all, and He knoweth all things." (2:247)

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@GreatChineseFall

Unfortunately, as is the case with most Sunnis who try to argue against imamah in the Qur'an, you have missed the entire point of the verses that I've posted and have also misunderstood our argument. I answered your first attempt, and afterwards you came back with more verses in hopes to prove your point.

Quote


Then do you wonder that there has come to you a reminder from your Lord through a man from among you, that he may warn you? And remember when He made you successors after the people of Noah and increased you in stature extensively. So remember the favors of Allah that you might succeed.

 

أَوَعَجِبْتُمْ أَنْ جَاءَكُمْ ذِكْرٌ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ عَلَىٰ رَجُلٍ مِنْكُمْ لِيُنْذِرَكُمْ ۚ وَاذْكُرُوا إِذْ جَعَلَكُمْ خُلَفَاءَ مِنْ بَعْدِ قَوْمِ نُوحٍ وَزَادَكُمْ فِي الْخَلْقِ بَسْطَةً ۖ فَاذْكُرُوا آلَاءَ اللَّهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ {69}
The phrase "Ja3lkum 5ulafaa2," meaning that it was Allah who made mankind successors by his designation. Meaning what? It was Allah's direct will that mankind were to be successors of Nuh [as] after the flood and to live on and increase. This is done by Allah's divine will and designation. So where is your "refutation?"
 

 

Quote

And thus We have made for every prophet an enemy - devils from mankind and jinn, inspiring to one another decorative speech in delusion. But if your Lord had willed, they would not have done it, so leave them and that which they invent.

وَكَذَٰلِكَ جَعَلْنَا لِكُلِّ نَبِيٍّ عَدُوًّا شَيَاطِينَ الْإِنْسِ وَالْجِنِّ يُوحِي بَعْضُهُمْ إِلَىٰ بَعْضٍ زُخْرُفَ الْقَوْلِ غُرُورًا ۚ وَلَوْ شَاءَ رَبُّكَ مَا فَعَلُوهُ ۖ فَذَرْهُمْ وَمَا يَفْتَرُونَ {112}

You yourself admitted that the phrase "ja3lna" here does not mean direct divine choosing, as this would associate ugliness to Allah, and this is impossible. As Allah does not designate or create evil. Therefore, with your own admittance, this verse means that the word here has a contextual meaning that Allah "allowed," by his will that this should happen, not that he created it or designated it directly. So with your own admittance, the context changed the meaning of the word ja3la "to make," into the meaning of "to allow." Otherwise, you'd be saying that Allah "made directly," evil, and this is kufr. So you admit that context is everything.

However, when we look at the verse that I posted regarding ibrahim [as], we see that the context does indeed imply direct choosing as Allah says: 

 

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا ۖ قَالَ وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي ۖ قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ {124}

Here it says that Allah first tested Ibrahim [as] with the purpose of making him into an Imam afterwards if he succeeds. How is it that Allah is not designating Ibrahim [as] as an Imam directly if he is testing him for that very purpose? As you can see, the examples that you gave and the example that I gave have no relation whatsoever with each other.

So my questions are the following for you or any Sunni who can answer.

1- How is it that Ibrahim [as], who is a prophet and messenger, could not become an Imam without Allah testing and designating him to be an Imam, and yet Abu Bakr, who was neither a prophet not messenger, can be voted into the position of Ibrahim [as] who was tested and was a prophet and messenger?

2- If Prophet-hood is higher than imamah, then why is Ibrahim [as] being tested as a prophet in order to become an imam? If a prophet is higher than an imam then why is a test of will necessary?

As for my third question....


وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا ۖ قَالَ وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي ۖ قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ {124}

Ibrahim [as] is asking Allah to include his family into imamah. Allah [swt] says that imamah is his "covenant/pact/3hd," and that it will only include the righteous members of his family.

3- Is imamah a divine covenant/pact?

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20 hours ago, Abu-Jafar Herz said:

Unfortunately, as is the case with most Sunnis who try to argue against imamah in the Qur'an, you have missed the entire point of the verses that I've posted and have also misunderstood our argument. I answered your first attempt, and afterwards you came back with more verses in hopes to prove your point.

I dont see a problem with quoting verses as it's the basis people do not differ about. I also dont think your answer about the just community was adequate enough, I just added more verses to provide context. Yes, context is everything and I am arguing that the context in all those verses is similar. What I object to is the impression given that a divine right is given by Allah when it is said that Allah has made something in this context. No, Allah didnt give the people a right to be just or designated them to be a just community, which doesnt make sense in this context as being just is an obligation not a right, its simply stating that Allah has granted them or rewarded them with making them just among each other. There is also not any type of right granted to the successors of the people of Noah other than the normal natural process that Allah has allowed to take place. In what way is that different than a person assuming power and claiming that Allah has designated him to be a successor on earth? No right is given to people to be enemies of prophets either, no specific right is given to the wives of the Prophets to become their wives, prophets did not go to people and tell them that Allah has designated such and such person to be his wife, simply that Allah has made them become his wives through proposal etc. by Allah's permission. Similarly, I argue that Ibrahim as is not given a right to be followed here, nothing is given in the quoted verse. The right to be followed or divine designation if you wish was already given the moment he became a Messenger. What the verse talks about here is the promise by Allah that he will make him succeed in his mission and that he will be followed by the people and that he will be remembered by them

Furthermore, the context of Imam in this verse is not even related to the proof that is usually asked for regarding the succession of the Prophet saw. Just as I can't use the example of disbelievers being khulafaa' in the previous verse to claim that a caliph can be a disbeliever as clearly the context of khulafaa' is talking about people who came to follow or replace others (in the sense of existence, not authority at least not divine authority). Similarly, the context of Imam here is different from the political and religious duties the Prophet saw had and needed to be performed after his death. It is exactly the same context as the people that asked for Imamah here:

25:74
Sahih International
And those who say, "Our Lord, grant us from among our wives and offspring comfort to our eyes and make us an example for the righteous."

They didn't ask for authority or a kingdom or to have any kind of political and religious duties bestowed upon them in any way, they simply asked for later generations to remember them and to be an inspiration for them through their good works and obedience to Allah.
 

21 hours ago, Abu-Jafar Herz said:

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا ۖ قَالَ وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي ۖ قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ {124}

Here it says that Allah first tested Ibrahim [as] with the purpose of making him into an Imam afterwards if he succeeds. How is it that Allah is not designating Ibrahim [as] as an Imam directly if he is testing him for that very purpose? As you can see, the examples that you gave and the example that I gave have no relation whatsoever with each other.


There are some major disagreements here on many different levels, first I dont agree that the purpose of him being tested was to make him a leader, being tested is in of itsself a purpose, him being made a leader for mankind is a reward. And He is not designating anything here, He simply tells him that He will make him remembered and followed by next generations.
He is not testing him for that purpose, the right to be followed was already given, it is simply stating that the guarantee of him being followed is by means of his actions. In other words, later generations will remember him and one of the main reasons why they do so is because of this example of extreme obedience to Allah and adherence to Tawhid, so this incident serves as a means through which he will be remembered.

21 hours ago, Abu-Jafar Herz said:

1- How is it that Ibrahim [as], who is a prophet and messenger, could not become an Imam without Allah testing and designating him to be an Imam, and yet Abu Bakr, who was neither a prophet not messenger, can be voted into the position of Ibrahim [as] who was tested and was a prophet and messenger?


We disagree on the designation, he already was "designated" to be followed. Secondly, the position of Imam what is spoken about here is not the same position as what people choose their leader to be in the case of Khilafa. This Imamah in this context is the leadership extending to later generations(primarily later generations), not a temporary political and religious head of state. Again, the other verse of people asking to be made an Imam for mankind provides the proper context.

21 hours ago, Abu-Jafar Herz said:

2- If Prophet-hood is higher than imamah, then why is Ibrahim [as] being tested as a prophet in order to become an imam? If a prophet is higher than an imam then why is a test of will necessary?

The test is not in order to become an Imam, being made an example to mankind is a reward and the test is one of the means through which he becomes an example to mankind. Second, Prophethood is granted, while him being made a leader is a reward, naturally things that have been granted do not need anything while rewards need something to have occurred prior to it being rewarded. Besides, again the context is important, I dont even consider Imamah to be a separate station like Prophethood or Messengership and for that you need to consider again the example of people asking to be made an Imam for mankind. A similar context is provided in these verses:

2:259
Sahih International

Or [consider such an example] as the one who passed by a township which had fallen into ruin. He said, "How will Allah bring this to life after its death?" So Allah caused him to die for a hundred years; then He revived him. He said, "How long have you remained?" The man said, "I have remained a day or part of a day." He said, "Rather, you have remained one hundred years. Look at your food and your drink; it has not changed with time. And look at your donkey; and We will make you a sign for the people. And look at the bones [of this donkey] - how We raise them and then We cover them with flesh." And when it became clear to him, he said, "I know that Allah is over all things competent."

 

19:21
Sahih International
He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, 'It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.' "

Being made a sign for people is not a separate station like Prophethood and Messengership, its simply describing an attribute just like Imamah in the context of Ibrahim as and the means through which this occurs ie through those incidents. That doesnt mean that that which is rewarded or made to be so through certain means is higher than that which is granted, they are not even comparable.

21 hours ago, Abu-Jafar Herz said:

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا ۖ قَالَ وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي ۖ قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ {124}

Ibrahim [as] is asking Allah to include his family into imamah. Allah [swt] says that imamah is his "covenant/pact/3hd," and that it will only include the righteous members of his family.

3- Is imamah a divine covenant/pact?

Yes it is, a pact which means that if you fulfill your promise and show obedience to Allah and adhere to Tawhid, Allah will fulfill His promise and make you leaders( in the sense of examples) to mankind. It is entirely different to the station of Prophethood and Messengership nor is it related to the duties a head of state has.

28:5
Pickthall

And We desired to show favour unto those who were oppressed in the earth, and to make them examples and to make them the inheritors,

Here again, it is in the context of being made example for later generations, exactly the same context as the case of Prophet Ibrahim as and shows the extent of the pact. If you fulfill your promise, Allah will fulfill His in making you leaders or examples to mankind. Is it possible that Prophethood or Messengership was desired to be in certain people but because of their disobedience didnt happen? This shows the difference between a station that is granted and something that is rewarded as part of a promise or pact.

 

 

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On 8/16/2016 at 11:33 PM, S.M.H.A. said:

Did the Angels choose the Khalifa/Caliph/Vicegerent for Allah(awj)? 

No, Angels have no choice in that to begin with.

On 8/16/2016 at 11:33 PM, S.M.H.A. said:

Did the Prophet in 2:124 choose himself to the Imam(leader) for Allah(awj) creation? 

No

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On 8/12/2016 at 9:25 PM, skamran110 said:

So the Quran clearly mentions that the Prophet Ibrahim was chosen as Imam by Allah and not by the people.

Also the Duran instructs the Prophet Muhammad saww to follow the religion of ibrahim. in other words the prophet has been instructed to follow the religion of imam selected by Allah swt. This provides the clear evidence that the religion should be followed which is based on the Imams appointed by Allah swt and not by the people.

What are the characteristics of the religion of Ibrahim that we should follow as per verses of quran? we need to explore further and this has been carried out in the following:

QURAN:

أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ ۚ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللَّهِ لَوَجَدُوا فِيهِ اخْتِلَافًا كَثِيرًا
1. Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction. (4:82)

كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ إِلَيْكَ مُبَارَكٌ لِّيَدَّبَّرُوا آيَاتِهِ وَلِيَتَذَكَّرَ أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ
2.  [This is] a blessed Book which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], that they might reflect upon its verses and that those of understanding would be reminded. (38:29)

ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ اللَّهَ نَزَّلَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ ۗ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِي الْكِتَابِ لَفِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ
3. That is [deserved by them] because Allah has sent down the Book in truth. And indeed, those who differ over the Book are in extreme dissension.(2:176)

IBRAHIM  AS AND HIS RELIGION  IN QURAN:

- وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ دِينًا مِّمَّنْ أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لِلَّهِ وَهُوَ مُحْسِنٌ وَاتَّبَعَ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا ۗ وَاتَّخَذَ اللَّهُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ خَلِيلًا
4. And who is better in religion than one who submits himself to Allah while being a doer of good and follows the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth? And Allah took Abraham as an intimate friend. (4:125)

قُلْ صَدَقَ اللَّهُ ۗ فَاتَّبِعُوا مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
5. Say, " Allah has told the truth. So follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of the polytheists." (3:95)

Thus Quran instruct us to follow the Religion of Ibrahim.

وَإِبْرَاهِيمَ إِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ وَاتَّقُوهُ ۖ ذَٰلِكُمْ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ
6. And [We sent] Abraham, when he said to his people, "Worship Allah and fear Him. That is best for you, if you should know. (29:16)

وَاذْكُرْ فِي الْكِتَابِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ ۚ إِنَّهُ كَانَ صِدِّيقًا نَّبِيًّا
7. And mention in the Book [the story of] Abraham. Indeed, he was a man of truth and a prophet. (19:41)

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا ۖ قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي ۖ قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ
8. And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a leader for the people."[Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers." (2:124)

إِنَّ إِبْرَاهِيمَ كَانَ أُمَّةً قَانِتًا لِّلَّهِ حَنِيفًا وَلَمْ يَكُ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
9. Indeed, Abraham was a [comprehensive] leader, devoutly obedient to Allah , inclining toward truth, and he was not of those who associate others with Allah . (16:120)

The Religion of Ibrahim has concepts of worshiping Allah, Prophet hood and Leader (Imam) chosen by Allah.

قُلْ إِنَّنِي هَدَانِي رَبِّي إِلَىٰ صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ دِينًا قِيَمًا مِّلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا ۚ وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
10. Say, "Indeed, my Lord has guided me to a straight path - a correct religion - the way of Abraham, inclining toward truth. And he was not among those who associated others with Allah ." (6:161)

فَأَقِمْ وَجْهَكَ لِلدِّينِ حَنِيفًا ۚ فِطْرَتَ اللَّهِ الَّتِي فَطَرَ النَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا ۚ لَا تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِ اللَّهِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ
11. So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah . That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know. (30:30)

إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللَّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللَّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ مِنْهَا أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ ۚ فَلَا تَظْلِمُوا فِيهِنَّ أَنفُسَكُمْ ۚ وَقَاتِلُوا الْمُشْرِكِينَ كَافَّةً كَمَا يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ كَافَّةً ۚ وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ
12. Indeed, the number of months with Allah is twelve [lunar] months in the register of Allah [from] the day He created the heavens and the earth; of these, four are sacred. That is the correct religion, so do not wrong yourselves during them. And fight against the disbelievers collectively as they fight against you collectively. And know that Allah is with the righteous [who fear Him]. (9:36)

The Religion of Ibrahim is called as Correct Religion. It has concept of   12 Months out of those 4 are sacred. Its explanation from saying of Imam is given below:

In a tradition on the authority of Jabir (ra), Imam Muhammad al-Baqir, the fifth Imam of Ahlul-Bait, interprets the above verse (sr no. 12) which is as follows:

Jabir said: I asked Imam Muhammad al-Baqir about the meaning of the verse: "Verily the number of the months … (9:36).”He (as) breathed long (out of sorrow) and said: "O Jabir, The ‘year’ is my grandfather, the messenger of Allah (S), and his family are its ‘months’ who are the twelve Imams, and are … (naming the Imams one by one). They are the Proofs of Allah on His creation, and Trusties of His revelations and His knowledge. And Those of ‘four sacred who are the firm religion’ are those four who have the same name, and are ‘Ali, the Commander of Faithful (as), and my father ‘Ali Ibn al-Husayn (as), and later ‘Ali Ibn Musa (as), and ‘Ali Ibn Muhammad (as). Thus acknowledging these four is ‘the firm religion, so wrong not your souls in them’ and believe in all of them to be guided."

Shi’i Reference: Kitab al-Ghaiba, by Shaikh Tusi..

Thus the religion of Ibrahim means following the 12 imams from Pure Progeny of the prophet Muhammad saw after him.

سَلَامٌ عَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ
13. "Peace upon Abraham." (37:109)

إِنَّ اللَّهَ اصْطَفَىٰ آدَمَ وَنُوحًا وَآلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَآلَ عِمْرَانَ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ    
14. Indeed, Allah chose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of 'Imran over the worlds  (3:33)

أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِم مِّنَ النَّبِيِّينَ مِن ذُرِّيَّةِ آدَمَ وَمِمَّنْ حَمَلْنَا مَعَ نُوحٍ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّةِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْرَائِيلَ وَمِمَّنْ هَدَيْنَا وَاجْتَبَيْنَا ۚ إِذَا تُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُ الرَّحْمَٰنِ خَرُّوا سُجَّدًا وَبُكِيًّا ۩
15. Those were the ones upon whom Allah bestowed favor from among the prophets of the descendants of Adam and of those We carried [in the ship] with Noah, and of the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and of those whom We guided and chose. When the verses of the Most Merciful were recited to them, they fell in prostration and weeping. (19:58)

شَرَعَ لَكُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا وَصَّىٰ بِهِ نُوحًا وَالَّذِي أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ وَمَا وَصَّيْنَا بِهِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ ۖ أَنْ أَقِيمُوا الدِّينَ وَلَا تَتَفَرَّقُوا فِيهِ ۚ كَبُرَ عَلَى الْمُشْرِكِينَ مَا تَدْعُوهُمْ إِلَيْهِ ۚ اللَّهُ يَجْتَبِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يَشَاءُ وَيَهْدِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يُنِيبُ
16. He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back [to Him]. (42:13)

إِنَّ أَوْلَى النَّاسِ بِإِبْرَاهِيمَ لَلَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوهُ وَهَٰذَا النَّبِيُّ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ۗ وَاللَّهُ وَلِيُّ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ
17. Indeed, the most worthy of Abraham among the people are those who followed him [in submission to Allah ] and this prophet, and those who believe [in his message]. And Allah is the ally of the believers. (3:68)

وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحًا وَإِبْرَاهِيمَ وَجَعَلْنَا فِي ذُرِّيَّتِهِمَا النُّبُوَّةَ وَالْكِتَابَ ۖ فَمِنْهُم مُّهْتَدٍ ۖ وَكَثِيرٌ مِّنْهُمْ فَاسِقُونَ
18. And We have already sent Noah and Abraham and placed in their descendants prophethood and scripture; and among them is he who is guided, but many of them are defiantly disobedient. (57:26)

قُلْ آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَالنَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ
19. Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him." (3:84)

قُولُوا آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ
20. Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." (2:136)

The above verses (19 & 20) indicate that every Muslim believes what has been revealed to the prophet Ibrahim and other prophets should be followed for being  Muslims ie follower of the correct religion..

ثُمَّ أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ أَنِ اتَّبِعْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا ۖ وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
21. Then We revealed to you, [O Muhammad], to follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of those who associate with Allah . (16:123)

إِنَّا أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ كَمَا أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَىٰ نُوحٍ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ مِن بَعْدِهِ ۚ وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَعِيسَىٰ وَأَيُّوبَ وَيُونُسَ وَهَارُونَ وَسُلَيْمَانَ ۚ وَآتَيْنَا دَاوُودَ زَبُورًا
22. Indeed, We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], as We revealed to Noah and the prophets after him. And we revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, the Descendants, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the book [of Psalms]. (4:163)

23. The above verses clarifies that the religion of Ibrahim has to be followed containing 12 leaders. The verse mentions exactly 12 names.

24. Hz Nuh As made an ark that saved the believers in the water storm.

The prophet has said:: An interesting statement is recorded from the Holy Prophet, in both Sunni and Shi’ite books on Traditions, which is the famous Tradition of Noah’s ark.
In this Tradition, Abu Dharr says, “The Prophet said, ‘My family is like Noah’s ark. Whoever uses it will be saved and whoever separates from it will drown.” (Mustadrak Halcam, vol.3, p. 151).
Noting that the ark of Noah is a place of refuge and a means of salvation for when the great storm comes, this truth becomes clear that the Islamic ummah will be saved in the storm which came after the death of the Prophet through the Ahlul Bayt.

25. Hz Ibrahim as was made leader / imam of mankind by Allah swt.

26. Hz Ismael name is mentioned at third place. The third Imam is hz Hussain as from the progeny of ismael, He was martyred in Kerbela with his family. This sacrifice is termed as zibeh Azeem.

27. Hz Ishaque and yaqub were also chosen as Imams.

And We gave him Isaac and Jacob in addition, and all [of them] We made righteous. And We made them leaders (Imams) guiding by Our command. And We inspired to them the doing of good deeds, establishment of prayer, and giving of zakah; and they were worshippers of Us. (21:72, 73)

28. The tribes (Asbat) are from the twelve sons of Jacob. There were twelve leaders chosen by Allah swt in their children known as bani Israel.

And We divided them into twelve descendant tribes [as distinct] nations. And We inspired to Moses when his people implored him for water, "Strike with your staff the stone," and there gushed forth from it twelve springs.(7:160)
And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. (5:12)

29. Similarly the other prophets are mentioned in quran They include:
وَعِيسَىٰ وَأَيُّوبَ وَيُونُسَ وَهَارُونَ وَسُلَيْمَانَ

30. The twelfth prophet mentioned is David.

[We said], "O David, indeed We have made you a successor (khalifa) upon the earth,so judge between the people in truth and do not follow [your own] desire, as it will lead you astray from the way of Allah ." Indeed, those who go astray from the way of Allah will have a severe punishment for having forgotten the Day of Account. (38:26)

 

The Prophet (S) said: "We (I and my family) are members of a household that Allah (SWT) has chosen for them the life of the Hereafter over the life of this world; and the members of my household (Ahlul-Bayt) shall suffer a great affliction and they shall be forcefully expelled from their homes after my death; then there will come people from the East carrying black flags, and they will ask for some good to be given to them, but they shall be refused service; as such, they will wage war and emerge victorious, and will be offered that which they desired in the first place, but they will refuse to accept it till they pass it to a man from my family (Ahlul-Bayt) appears to fill the Earth with justice as it has been filled with corruption. So whoever reaches that (time) ought to come to them even if crawling on the ice/snow since among them is the Vice-regent of Allah(Khalifatullah)             al-Mahdi."
References:
• Sunan Ibn Majah, v2, Tradition #4082,
• The History Tabari
• al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, pp 250-251

31. The above verses confirm the presence of 12 leaders / imams in the nation of Muhammad who are chosen by Allah swt and they are to be followed,

32. O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. (4:59)

When the verse (4:59) was revealed, Jabir asked the Prophet (S): "We know Allah and the Prophet, but who are those vested with authority whose obedience has been conjoined to that of Allah and yourself?"
The Prophet (S) said: "They are my Caliphs and the Imams of Muslims after me.The first of them is ‘Ali; then al-Hasan; then al-Husayn; then ‘Ali son of al-Husayn; then Muhammad son of ‘Ali who has been mentioned ‘al-Baqir’ in the Torah (the old testament). O Jabir! You will meet him. When you see him, convey my greetings to him. He will be succeeded by his son, Ja’far al-Sadiq (the Truthful); then Musa son of Ja’far; then ‘Ali son of Musa; then Muhammad son of ‘Ali; then ‘Ali son of Muhammad; then al-Hasan son of ‘Ali. He will be followed by his son whose name and nick name will be the same as mine. He will be Proof of Allah (Hujjatullah) on the earth, and the one spared by Allah (Baqiyyatullah) to maintain the cause of faith among mankind. He shall conquer the whole world from the east to the west. So long will he remain hidden from the eyes of his followers and friends that the belief in his leadership will remain only in those hearts which have been tested by Allah for faith.".

Jabir said: "O Messenger of Allah! Will his followers benefit from his seclusion?”The Prophet said: "Yes! by Him who sent me with prophethood! They will be guided by his light, and benefit from his leadership during his seclusion, just as people benefit from the sun even though it is hidden in the clouds. O Jabir! This is from the hidden secrets of Allah and the treasured knowledge of Allah. So guard it except from the people who deserve to know.”(Kifayatul Athar, by al-Khazzaz, p53).

33.  The above beliefs are 12vers shia beliefs. Do we have confirmation that the Shia are following the religion of Ibrahim as per Quran?

 وَإِنَّ مِن شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْرَاهِيمَ
35. And indeed, among his follower (Shia)  was Abraham, (37:83)

36.  Thus confirming that the 12vers Shia are the followers of the Religion of Ibrahim, that  is the Religion to be followed by the Quran.

@skamran110 @Abu-Jafar Herz

Sorry for late response. As I was busy in some other work.

Brother, above explanation and interpretation is not much convincing. You are just showing the words IMAM and SHIA etc, not the belief or doctrine of Imamate from Quran. Even belief about angels is very clearly and explicitly mentioned multiple times in Quran. To understand that you dont even need to refer any narration. Why the same is not there in Quran regarding imamate?

Brother the basis or foundation on which you are constructing the building of divine imamate is weak. It is not clear and explicit in Quran. Then how can anyone match narrations about divine imamate from twelver books with Quran. Rule is anything that goes against Quran must be rejected. But we see no where in Quran belief of Imamate is clrealy mentioned so that we can match and verify such narrations.

Ibrahim a.s was made Imam by Allah [2:124]. And he prayed the same for his progeny. Answer to this prayer is also in Quran [21:71-72].

And We gave him Isaac and Jacob in addition, and all [of them] We made righteous. 71

Ibrahim a.s real offsprings were Ishaq from him Yaqub + Ismail.

And We made them Imams, guiding by Our command. And We inspired to them the doing of good deeds, establishment of prayer, and giving of zakah; and they were worshippers of Us. 72

They all were Imams. And the job of Imam is to guide by the command of Allah. In fact after Ibrahim a.s all prophets were from his progeny and all were Imams (guide for their people) including our Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.w. He is last of the prophets so he is Imam (guide) for all people till qiyamah. We all have to follow his way of life (sunnah).

But Imamte and caliphate is not same thing. Quran 2:124 is about imamate but not about caliphate. Ibrahim a.s was not caliph/ruler, he was just Imam. He did not get power or authority on earth. None from his progeny got this except Daud a.s and Sulemain a.s and our Beloved Prophet s.a.w.w. Every caliph is Imam (guiding people) but not every Imam is caliph. Same is the case with 12 Imams whom twelvers regard as divinly appointed. Except Imam Ali a.s and Imam Hassan a.s no one became caliph in reality. And before end of time Imam Mahdi a.s will be the caliph. And hadith of Jabir bin Samura r.a about caliphate, about those who will get power and authority on earth. So that hadith also has nothing to do with twelver concept of imamate.

Moreover, 2:124 also say except wrongdoers anyone can be Imam. Its not only limited to number 12. Or limited to only ahlebayt. Anyone can become Imam in this sense i.e guide people by commands of Allah and of Prophet s.a.w.w. Exactly what the scholars are doing since centuries.

You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and believe in Allah . If only the People of the Scripture had believed, it would have been better for them. Among them are believers, but most of them are defiantly disobedient. [3:110]

Furthermore, if the wrongdoers from among the progeny of Ibrahim a.s and also those who are not from his progeny repent and do righteous deed can also become Imam (guide or role model for others).

And [mention] the man of the fish, when he went off in anger and thought that We would not decree [anything] upon him. And he called out within the darknesses, "There is no deity except You; exalted are You. Indeed, I have been of the wrongdoers." [21:87]

[25:68-76]

And those who do not invoke with Allah another deity or kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed], except by right, and do not commit unlawful sexual intercourse. And whoever should do that will meet a penalty.

Multiplied for him is the punishment on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein humiliated -

Except for those who repent, believe and do righteous work. For them Allah will replace their evil deeds with good. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

And he who repents and does righteousness does indeed turn to Allah with [accepted] repentance.

And [they are] those who do not testify to falsehood, and when they pass near ill speech, they pass by with dignity.

And those who, when reminded of the verses of their Lord, do not fall upon them deaf and blind.

And those who say, "Our Lord, grant us from among our wives and offspring comfort to our eyes and make us an Imam for the righteous."

Those will be awarded the Chamber for what they patiently endured, and they will be received therein with greetings and [words of] peace.

Abiding eternally therein. Good is the settlement and residence.

Imam who guide directly by commands of Allah is only limited to Prophets because they are only one who can get commands from Allah directly or through angels. After prophethood, guidance is through Quran and Sunnah of Prophet only. ANyone who guide people through these two sources is Imam. 

 

On 8/13/2016 at 5:24 AM, S.M.H.A. said:

Khalifa/Caliph/Vicegerent: a person exercising delegated power on behalf of

It is a practical impossibility for us,  to choose/assign  Allah(awj) Vicegerent for him.

Similarly it is a practical impossibility for us, to choose/assign a Vicegerent for the Prophets.

We Humans do not posses those capabilities.

Khalifa or the Vicegerent of the Prophet is our Imam(Leader).

And we can't choose our Imam on our own( for various obvious reason of conflict).


(Correct me if my  layman understanding is flawed).

@S.M.H.A. In response to yor question "your views aboutcaliphate/Imamate".

 

Caliph means the person who has power or authority or leadership on earth, practically, in reality, in true sense. Like Prophet Dawud a.s and Prophet Sulaiman a.s had, as mentioned in Quran. Every prophet was not caliph in this sense. While every prophet was Imam (one who guide by command of Alah) of his time.

Caliphate is a special post while Imamate is general. Anyone can become Imam of muslims on basis of his taqwa & knowledge but not everyone can become caliph. In other words every caliph is Imam but not every Imam is caliph.

Same is the case with 12 Imams of twelver shias, only Imam ALi a.s and Imam Hassan a.s got such power/authority (caliphate) in reality and in the end of time Imam Mahdi a.s will be the caliph while none of the other Imams got such power/authority in reality.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

@S.M.H.A. In response to yor question "your views aboutcaliphate/Imamate".

 

Caliph means the person who has power or authority or leadership on earth, practically, in reality, in true sense. Like Prophet Dawud a.s and Prophet Sulaiman a.s had, as mentioned in Quran. Every prophet was not caliph in this sense. While every prophet was Imam (one who guide by command of Alah) of his time.

Caliphate is a special post while Imamate is general. Anyone can become Imam of muslims on basis of his taqwa & knowledge but not everyone can become caliph. In other words every caliph is Imam but not every Imam is caliph.

Same is the case with 12 Imams of twelver shias, only Imam ALi a.s and Imam Hassan a.s got such power/authority (caliphate) in reality and in the end of time Imam Mahdi a.s will be the caliph while none of the other Imams got such power/authority in reality.

 

 

This is not a duty conversation.

Khalifa/Caliph/Vicegerent of Allah(awj)/Prophet is exercising authority based on been appointed by who?

Do the Angels or the  Prophets choose/assign/appoint the Khalifa/Caliph/Vicegerent/Representative for Allah(awj).

Yes/No ( Will suffice).

Edited by S.M.H.A.

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

But Imamte and caliphate is not same thing. Quran 2:124 is about imamate but not about caliphate. Ibrahim a.s was not caliph/ruler, he was just Imam. He did not get power or authority on earth. None from his progeny got this except Daud a.s and Sulemain a.s and our Beloved Prophet s.a.w.w. Every caliph is Imam (guiding people) but not every Imam is caliph. Same is the case with 12 Imams whom twelvers regard as divinly appointed. Except Imam Ali a.s and Imam Hassan a.s no one became caliph in reality. And before end of time Imam Mahdi a.s will be the caliph. And hadith of Jabir bin Samura r.a about caliphate, about those who will get power and authority on earth. So that hadith also has nothing to do with twelver concept of imamate.

Where is the verse of quran which states that the caliph mean a people chosen caliph?

How do you interpret that he That the hudith means the people chosen caliph as this contradicts the concept of caliphate described in quran? 

Hz Adam was chosen as vicegerent / caliph by Allah swt. Also the prophet Dawood  was also chosen as caliph by Allah swt and not by the people.

Edited by skamran110

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