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In the Name of God بسم الله
Fahad Sani

Ghadir was not about caliphate or leadership

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Assalam o Alaikum, Wa Rehmatullah, Wa Barakatuhu.

GHADIR? CALIPHATE OR FRIENDLY LOVING RELATIONSHIP?


قال الله تعالى في الآية 6 من سورة الأحزاب : (النَّبيُّ أولى بالمؤمنين من أنفسهم)

      قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَنَا أَوْلَى بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ

(Bukhari, Muslim, Trimizi, Abu Dawud, Nasai & others)

Same words Prophet s.a.w.w repeated in Ghadir, before saying Man kuntu Maula'hu.

 أحمد في مسنده 19302

حدثنا حُسين بن محمد وأبو نعيم، المعنى، قالا: حدثنا فِطْرٌ، عن أبي الطُّفيل قال:جمع عليٌّ رضي الله عنه الناسَ في الرَّحْبة، ثم قال لهم: أنْشُدُ اللهَ كلَّ امرىءٍ مسلمٍ سَمِعَ رسولَ الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يوم غَديرِ خُمٍّ ما سمع، لَمَّا قام، فقام ثلاثون من الناس، وقال أبو نعيم: فقام ناسٌ كثير، فشهدوا حين أخذه بيده، فقال للناس: "أتَعْلَمُونَ أنِّي أوْلَى بالمؤمنينَ مِنْ أنْفُسِهِمْ؟" قالوا: نعم يا رسولَ الله. قال: "مَنْ كُنْتُ مَوْلاهُ، فَهذَا مولاهُ، اللّهُمَّ وَالِ مَنْ وَالاهُ وَعَادِ مَنْ عادَاهُ" قال: فخرجتُ وكأنَّ في نفسي شيئاً، فلَقِيتُ زيدَ بنَ أرقم، فقلتُ له: إني سمعتُ علياً رضي الله عنه يقول كذا وكذا. قال: فما تُنكر؟ قد سمعتُ رسولَ الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول ذلك له.

First Prophet s.a.w.w asked a question that: "Do I not have more rights over your lives than yourselves? All answered: Yes

Then Prophet s.a.w.w said: Of whomever I am Mawla, Ali is his Mawla.

And Immediately after this Prophet s.a.w.w said: O Allah, befriend whosoever befriends him and be the enemy of whosever is hostile to him.

Meaning, Mu'walat (love) and Mu'adat (enmity). Not caliphate or leadership. If it had been for caliphate then Prophet s.a.w.w would have said more explicit & unambiguous words like "O Allah love those who FOLLOW him or OBEY him, and be the enemy of those who don't FOLLOW him or DISOBEY him".

 

The version of ghadir where it is said, Prophet s.a.w.w gave sermon of Ghadir to appoint Imam Ali a.s as caliph/successor after him, as per orders of Allah i.e Maida 67, is a clear fabrication.

In Maida 67 protection was given By Allah to His Prophet s.a.w.w against the disbelievers/kafirs.

[Maida 67] O Messenger, announce that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, and if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people.

At ghadir were there any kuffar (disbelievers)? Who also performed hajj along with Prophet s.a.w.w?


In fact, it was not the first time when Prophet s.a.w.w had declared those words about Imam Ali a.s. He s.a.w.w had also stated the same many days before the ghadir to one of his companion, when he expressed his anger about Ali in front of Prophet s.a.w.w.

أحمد في مسنده 22945

حدثنا الفضلُ بن دُكَينٍ، حدثنا ابن أَبي غَنِيَّةَ، عن الحَكَم، عن سعيد بن جُبَير، عن ابن عباس عن بُرَيدةَ، قال: غَزَوتُ مع عليٍّ اليمنَ، فرأَيتُ منه جَفْوةً، فلما قَدِمْتُ على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ذَكَرْتُ عليّاً، فتَنَقَّصتُه، فرأَيتُ وجهَ رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يَتغيَّرُ، فقال: "يا بُرَيدةُ، أَلستُ أَوْلى بالمُؤمنِينَ من أَنفُسِهم؟" قلت: بلى يا رسول الله. قال: "من كنتُ مَوْلاه، فعليٌّ مَوْلاه".


Shaykh Mufid reported in Kitab al-Irshad pp.111-112

Buraida reported: "I wanted the earth to split open for me so that I could be swallowed into it. Then I said: I seek refuge in Allah from the anger of Allah and the anger of the Apostle of Allah. Apostle of Allah, forgive me. I will never hate Ali and I will only speak good of him." The Prophet forgave him.

 

Even Imam Ali a.s himself did not understood anything about caliphate/leadership.

Narrated `Abdullah bin `Abbas:

Ali bin Abu Talib came out of the house of Allah's Messenger during his fatal illness. The people asked, "O Abu Hasan (i.e. `Ali)! How is the health of Allah's Messenger this morning?" `Ali replied, "He has recovered with the Grace of Allah." `Abbas bin `Abdul Muttalib held him by the hand and said to him, "In three days you, by Allah, will be ruled (by somebody else ), And by Allah, I feel that Allah's Apostle will die from this ailment of his, for I know how the faces of the offspring of `Abdul Muttalib look at the time of their death. So let us go to Allah's Messenger and ask him who will take over the Caliphate. If it is given to us we will know as to it, and if it is given to somebody else, we will inform him so that he may tell the new ruler to take care of us." `Ali said, "By Allah, if we asked Allah's Apostle for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give it to us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah's Messenger for it." [Sahih al-Bukhari 4447]

 

Imam Shafai r.a words about ghadir. Same Imam Shafai who is famous for his words "If love for Muhammads ‘aal’ (family) is Rafdh (heresy). Then Jinn and Men bear witness I am a Rafidhi (heretic)." Being a Rafidhi he also had not considered ghadir in meaning of caliphate.

What is meant by that is the concept of love for the sake of Islam, as Allah says:{that is because Allah is the Mawla of those who believe, and the disbelievers have no Mawla (Qur’an 47: 11)}. So the hadith does not say that ‘Ali should be the caliph after the death of the Messenger of Allah, it indicates that ‘Ali is one of the close friends of Allah, to whom love and support is due for the sake of Allah. [Haqbat min al-tareekh P-187]

 

Jazak Allah Khairan

 

Edited by Fahad Sani

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Lol. You quote from sunni books and sunni scholars to prove something to shias? Why don't you go join ummah.org or something?

Yeah yeah, prophet gathered thousands of people just to say "Listen everyone, Ali is my friend and I love him".

Like he didn't do this countless times before. Sounds pretty logical.

Edited by celestial

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Was Muhammed s.a.w so clueless, auzubillah ?

He dies without even recommending, or facilitating the pertinent issue of leadership after him.

He dies without allowing his own daughter Fatima a.s, and his own son Ali a.s to know that he doesn't leave inheritance...making them claim inheritance. Astoishingly, Fatima a.s and Ali a.s have no idea about the fact Muhammed s.a.w did not leave anything behind for them, but Umulmumineen Aisha did know?

There's one very telling statement:

`Ali said, "By Allah, if we asked Allah's Apostle for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give it to us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah's Messenger for it."

I thought Ali a.s and the other Sahaba recognised the superiority of Abu Bakr? so why on earth would Ali a.s not want to risk being denied the caliphate? Did he think he had a right to it - or should be the caliph, even above Abu Bakr? Infact, what about the story we here oft repeated that Ali a.s had no desire to be caliph.

Didn't Ali a.s know Abu Bakr and Umar were the leaders of the 'elders' of jannah? Didn't he say the best of men after Muhammed s.a.w was Abu Bakr, then Umar, and that he himself was just an ordinary person? Didn't he claim the superiority of Abu Bakr, and Umar over all men after the Prophet Muhammed s.a.w?

If you believed all of the above, would you deny giving Bayah to someone for six whole months? It is unanimously accepted that Ali a.s did not give Bayah to Abu Bakr for six whole months. Does that seem normal? Did he think he had a right over Abu Bakr? Surely not, he would, allegedly, have known of all of these ahadith narrated and tagged to his name, extolling their merits. Did he merely reject Abu Bakr for 6 months because he was sad they didn't consult him? Why is matter?  If they had consulted him, would he have not voted clearly, for Abu Bakr anyway? Should he not have been happy the clear-cut best man after Muhammed s.a.w was appointed?

If one is not happy, maybe they would be sad for a day, perhaps a week. But to abstain and not give bayah for six whole months is a very, very serious issue.

The bottom line is, there are so many plot-holes in these ahadith.

 

 

 

Edited by Tawheed313

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Muhammed s.a.w placed the word 'mawla' in context. He first reminded the people what relationship he had to them:

1. Do i not have more authority over you than you have over your own selves?

Thus, Muhammed s.a.w frames and clearly ensures the people know that their relationship to him is one of absolute authority.

2. Then he raises the hand of Ali a.s

When one raises the hand of another, this body language is a powerful statement. In sport, it is used to appoint a winner. In politics, i have often seen people raise the hand of an incumbent politician, or one they endorse to be leader. Ofcourse, it has other uses.

3. Whomsoevers mawla i am , Ali is his mawla.

Clearly, after ensuring and allowing the people to proclaim that Muhammed s.a.w's relationship to them is one where he has absolute authority over them, he then states whoever he has that relationship with, Ali a.s also has that relationship over them. Thus Mawla is placed within the framed context of authority, and thus means master, leader etc.

Furthermore, while people respected Muhammed s.a.w atleast outwardly, there was certianly jealousy of Ali a.s, and perhaps there were not true believers in the crowd, who sought for power after Muhammed s.a.w's death. Thus, the Prophet s.a.w in my eyes made a very powerful gesture. The same authority he had over the people, Ali a.s has it too. If your heart is in two minds, respecting the Prophet but having questions over Ali a.s, know that if the Prophet s.a.w is your master, Ali a.s is also your master.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

[Maida 67] O Messenger, announce that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, and if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people.

At ghadir were there any kuffar (disbelievers)? Who also performed hajj along with Prophet s.a.w.w?

 

Qur'an: and Allah will protect you from the people; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people: ar Raghib has said: "al 'Asm means to take hold; and al i'tisam is to adhere. al-'Isam is strap, that which is used for binding; the prophets enjoy 'ismah i.e. Allah protects them, first through the pure nature which is reserved for them; then through the physical and psychological virtues which He has bestowed upon them. Then through helping them and keeping their feet firm (on righteousness); then by sending tranquility upon them and protecting their hearts, and finally through tawfiq (divine help); Allah says: "and Allah will protect you from the people". And al 'ismah is like bracelet, and al-mi'sam is wrist, the part of hand where it is worn; the wrist's whiteness is called 'ismah, likening it to bracelet, as the whiteness of foot is called tahjil (wearing anklet); in the same vein they say, a'sam (white footed) crow (i.e. rare)."

Allamah Tabataba'I says: The explanation given above of the prophets' 'ismah is good, there is no objection to it; but those meanings cannot be applied to the verse under discussion: and Allah will protect you from the people; if we were to apply it, it may be applied to the verse: ...and they shall not harm you in any way, and Allah has revealed to you the Book and the Wisdom, and He has taught you what you did not know, and Allah's grace on you is very great (4:113). As for the clause: and Allah will protect you from the people, the verb, ya'sim, in it apparently denotes protection and safety from the people's evil which they aimed at the noble person of the Prophet, or his religious objectives or at the success of his Call and the triumph of his endeavors in short, any connotation appropriate to his sacred office.

However, looking at the usage of this word, we find that it actually means holding fast and clutching. Therefore, its use in the meaning of protection is based on allusion, because protection necessitates holding it fast.

Protection from the people is unrestricted and general. It does not say from which type of machination of the people the Prophet shall be protected. Does it point to their transgression and endeavors to harm him in body, like murder, poisoning, or assassination? Or through speech, like abusing and slandering? Or through some other devices, like disrupting his affairs one way or another through treachery, deception and double dealing? In short this non identification of things protected against, implies a sort of generalization; yet the context confines it to their evil that could have disrupted and destroyed what he had built and raised of the structure of religion.

"The people" refers to all human beings, without looking at any specialty, be it natural and in field of creation, like masculinity and femininity, or otherwise, like knowledge, virtues, and richness, etc. That is why it is seldom used for other than a group; and for this very reason, it often points to virtuous human beings if the virtue spoken of has some relation with humanity, as Allah says: And when it is said to them: "Believe as the people have believed" (2:13) i.e. those in whom meaning of humanity is found, and it is by which truth is perceived and distinguished from falsity.

Also, sometimes it denotes a sort of vileness and downfall in circumstances. This happens when the subject of talk is a thing in which some such human virtues are contemplated which are extraneous to the basic theme of the species, as Allah says: ...but most people do not know (30:30). Or, as you may say: Don't put trust in the people's promises; or, don't seek help from their masses. In the above clauses, you want to express the idea that trust or appeal to help should be placed in virtuous people who have natural disposition to fulfill their undertakings and to remain firm on their stand; that you should not trust such people who are merely called humans, without any praise or blame being attached to them; (especially) when the main theme does not indicate any merit or demerit other than the basic meaning of humanity, as Allah says: 0 you people! Surely We have created you of a male and a female and made you nations and tribes that you may recognize each other; surely the most honorable of you with Allah is the one who is most pious;… (49:13).

Probably, the word: "the people", in the clause: "and Allah will protect you from the people", points to the multitude of people which encompasses believers and hypocrites and those whose hearts are diseased; all of them are mixed together without any distinction. Therefore, if there is a cause to fear them, all of them combined will be feared. Probably the clause: "surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people," points to it. This clause explains the reason of the preceding one: "and Allah will protect you from the people"; it has been described earlier that the verse was revealed after hijrah when the Islam had gained upper hand in Arabia, and most of the people had apparently entered into the fold of Islam, although there were among them the hypocrites and those whose hearts were diseased. Therefore, the phrase: "unbelieving people" denotes those who were mingled with the general public, who were not called "unbelievers" yet the characteristics of disbelief had taken root in their hearts. And through this clause, Allah has given assurance that He will nullify their machinations and protect His Messenger from their evil.

Also, it seems clear that in this clause, disbelief, means disbelieving in one of the commandments of Allah, i.e. the order to which the phrase: what has been revealed to you from your Lord, points; it is the same style that has been used in the verse of Hajj: ...and whoever disbelieves, then surely Allah is Self sufficient (independent) of the worlds (3:97).

In any case, the context of the verse does not allow taking "disbelief" in the meaning of rejection of the two testimonies. Such views can only be considered if we take: what has been revealed to you from your Lord, as referring to the sum total of all the revealed messages, but you have seen that this interpretation has no leg to stand upon.

The statement that Allah will not guide the disbelievers, means that He will not guide them in their treachery and machinations, and will prevent usual causes to submit to them when they proceed to their objectives of evil and mischief. It is like the verses: ...surely Allah does not guide the transgressing people (63:6);... and Allah does not guide aright the unjust people (2:258). Detailed discussion on this subject may be seen in volume two of this book.

It is certainly not correct to say that the non guidance here means not guiding them to correct faith, because it goes against the basic concept of Divine Call. How can Allah tell His Messenger: You call them to Allah, or, invite them to obey the divine command, but I will not guide them to it, except for the purpose of completing the proof against them!

Moreover, we see with our own eyes that Allah guides a lot of unbelievers to faith, and continues to do so every day; and He Himself has said: ...and Allah guides whom He pleases to the straight path (2:213).

Now, it is crystal clear that not guiding the unbelievers means that Allah does not let them achieve their goal of negating the word of truth and extinguishing the light of the revealed commandments. The unbelievers as well as the unjust people and the transgressors, under the influence of their sinister minds and erroneous views, want to change the custom of Allah, which encompasses the whole creation. They intend to divert the proceedings of true causes (which are free from stigma of disobeying the Lord of the universe) towards their own false goals and wicked destinations. But their formal powers can never debilitate Almighty Lord. Let them ponder on this question. Who has put these powers in their body? The only answer is: Allah. (How can these powers overpower their Creator?)

They might occasionally succeed in their endeavors and obtain for a short time what they want, but soon all this is turned upside down and their trickery turns against themselves: ...and the evil plan does not beset any save the authors of it... (35:43);... thus does Allah compare truth and falsehood; then as for the scum, it passes away as a worthless thing; and as for that which profits the people, it remains in the earth; thus does Allah set forth parables (13:17)

Accordingly, the clause: "surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people", elaborates the preceding one: "and Allah will protect you from the people", putting some limitation on its generality. The protection then means that Allah will protect him (s.a.w.) so that the people do not inflict any harm on him before he achieves his objectives of delivering this order and announcing it to the ummah. For example, He will not let them kill him before he conveys the message; they would not be able to rise against him or overturn his affairs, or accuse him of such matters which would make the believers go out of his religion, or affect such devices which would destroy and annihilate this shari'ah. Nay, Allah will certainly make the word of truth victorious, and establish the religion as He pleases, wherever He pleases and whenever He pleases. Allah says: If He pleases, He can make you pass away, 0 people! And bring others; and Allah has the power to do this (4:133).

However, the verse: "and Allah will protect you from the people", cannot be taken to imply a general and all encompassing protection from all and every trouble and harm; because such a view is rebutted by the Qur'an, the hadith and accepted history. The Prophet (s.a.w.) had to suffer from his people be they believers, unbelievers or hypocrites such misfortunes, tribulations and multifarious afflictions and grievances which nobody could ever bear except the noble Prophet (s.a.w.); and he has said in a famous hadith: "No prophet was ever harmed like I have been."

 

http://www.almizan.org/

 

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Assalam o Alaikum, Wa Rehmatullah, Wa Barakatuhu.

GHADIR? CALIPHATE OR FRIENDLY LOVING RELATIONSHIP?


قال الله تعالى في الآية 6 من سورة الأحزاب : (النَّبيُّ أولى بالمؤمنين من أنفسهم)

      قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَنَا أَوْلَى بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ

(Bukhari, Muslim, Trimizi, Abu Dawud, Nasai & others)

Same words Prophet s.a.w.w repeated in Ghadir, before saying Man kuntu Maula'hu.

 أحمد في مسنده 19302

حدثنا حُسين بن محمد وأبو نعيم، المعنى، قالا: حدثنا فِطْرٌ، عن أبي الطُّفيل قال:جمع عليٌّ رضي الله عنه الناسَ في الرَّحْبة، ثم قال لهم: أنْشُدُ اللهَ كلَّ امرىءٍ مسلمٍ سَمِعَ رسولَ الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يوم غَديرِ خُمٍّ ما سمع، لَمَّا قام، فقام ثلاثون من الناس، وقال أبو نعيم: فقام ناسٌ كثير، فشهدوا حين أخذه بيده، فقال للناس: "أتَعْلَمُونَ أنِّي أوْلَى بالمؤمنينَ مِنْ أنْفُسِهِمْ؟" قالوا: نعم يا رسولَ الله. قال: "مَنْ كُنْتُ مَوْلاهُ، فَهذَا مولاهُ، اللّهُمَّ وَالِ مَنْ وَالاهُ وَعَادِ مَنْ عادَاهُ" قال: فخرجتُ وكأنَّ في نفسي شيئاً، فلَقِيتُ زيدَ بنَ أرقم، فقلتُ له: إني سمعتُ علياً رضي الله عنه يقول كذا وكذا. قال: فما تُنكر؟ قد سمعتُ رسولَ الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول ذلك له.

First Prophet s.a.w.w asked a question that: "Do I not have more rights over your lives than yourselves? All answered: Yes

Then Prophet s.a.w.w said: Of whomever I am Mawla, Ali is his Mawla.

And Immediately after this Prophet s.a.w.w said: O Allah, befriend whosoever befriends him and be the enemy of whosever is hostile to him.

Meaning, Mu'walat (love) and Mu'adat (enmity). Not caliphate or leadership. If it had been for caliphate then Prophet s.a.w.w would have said more explicit & unambiguous words like "O Allah love those who FOLLOW him or OBEY him, and be the enemy of those who don't FOLLOW him or DISOBEY him".

 

The version of ghadir where it is said, Prophet s.a.w.w gave sermon of Ghadir to appoint Imam Ali a.s as caliph/successor after him, as per orders of Allah i.e Maida 67, is a clear fabrication.

In Maida 67 protection was given By Allah to His Prophet s.a.w.w against the disbelievers/kafirs.

[Maida 67] O Messenger, announce that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, and if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people.

At ghadir were there any kuffar (disbelievers)? Who also performed hajj along with Prophet s.a.w.w?


In fact, it was not the first time when Prophet s.a.w.w had declared those words about Imam Ali a.s. He s.a.w.w had also stated the same many days before the ghadir to one of his companion, when he expressed his anger about Ali in front of Prophet s.a.w.w.

أحمد في مسنده 22945

حدثنا الفضلُ بن دُكَينٍ، حدثنا ابن أَبي غَنِيَّةَ، عن الحَكَم، عن سعيد بن جُبَير، عن ابن عباس عن بُرَيدةَ، قال: غَزَوتُ مع عليٍّ اليمنَ، فرأَيتُ منه جَفْوةً، فلما قَدِمْتُ على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ذَكَرْتُ عليّاً، فتَنَقَّصتُه، فرأَيتُ وجهَ رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يَتغيَّرُ، فقال: "يا بُرَيدةُ، أَلستُ أَوْلى بالمُؤمنِينَ من أَنفُسِهم؟" قلت: بلى يا رسول الله. قال: "من كنتُ مَوْلاه، فعليٌّ مَوْلاه".


Shaykh Mufid reported in Kitab al-Irshad pp.111-112

Buraida reported: "I wanted the earth to split open for me so that I could be swallowed into it. Then I said: I seek refuge in Allah from the anger of Allah and the anger of the Apostle of Allah. Apostle of Allah, forgive me. I will never hate Ali and I will only speak good of him." The Prophet forgave him.

 

Even Imam Ali a.s himself did not understood anything about caliphate/leadership.

Narrated `Abdullah bin `Abbas:

Ali bin Abu Talib came out of the house of Allah's Messenger during his fatal illness. The people asked, "O Abu Hasan (i.e. `Ali)! How is the health of Allah's Messenger this morning?" `Ali replied, "He has recovered with the Grace of Allah." `Abbas bin `Abdul Muttalib held him by the hand and said to him, "In three days you, by Allah, will be ruled (by somebody else ), And by Allah, I feel that Allah's Apostle will die from this ailment of his, for I know how the faces of the offspring of `Abdul Muttalib look at the time of their death. So let us go to Allah's Messenger and ask him who will take over the Caliphate. If it is given to us we will know as to it, and if it is given to somebody else, we will inform him so that he may tell the new ruler to take care of us." `Ali said, "By Allah, if we asked Allah's Apostle for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give it to us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah's Messenger for it." [Sahih al-Bukhari 4447]

 

Imam Shafai r.a words about ghadir. Same Imam Shafai who is famous for his words "If love for Muhammads ‘aal’ (family) is Rafdh (heresy). Then Jinn and Men bear witness I am a Rafidhi (heretic)." Being a Rafidhi he also had not considered ghadir in meaning of caliphate.

What is meant by that is the concept of love for the sake of Islam, as Allah says:{that is because Allah is the Mawla of those who believe, and the disbelievers have no Mawla (Qur’an 47: 11)}. So the hadith does not say that ‘Ali should be the caliph after the death of the Messenger of Allah, it indicates that ‘Ali is one of the close friends of Allah, to whom love and support is due for the sake of Allah. [Haqbat min al-tareekh P-187]

 

Jazak Allah Khairan

 

My christian friend was not accepting that God/Allah is one because he believed in trinity. I recited Surah Touheed from Quran to prove my point. Makes sense?

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4 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

Was Muhammed s.a.w so clueless, auzubillah ?

He dies without even recommending, or facilitating the pertinent issue of leadership after him.

He dies without allowing his own daughter Fatima a.s, and his own son Ali a.s to know that he doesn't leave inheritance...making them claim inheritance. Astoishingly, Fatima a.s and Ali a.s have no idea about the fact Muhammed s.a.w did not leave anything behind for them, but Umulmumineen Aisha did know?

There's one very telling statement:

`Ali said, "By Allah, if we asked Allah's Apostle for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give it to us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah's Messenger for it."

I thought Ali a.s and the other Sahaba recognised the superiority of Abu Bakr? so why on earth would Ali a.s not want to risk being denied the caliphate? Did he think he had a right to it - or should be the caliph, even above Abu Bakr? Infact, what about the story we here oft repeated that Ali a.s had no desire to be caliph.

Didn't Ali a.s know Abu Bakr and Umar were the leaders of the 'elders' of jannah? Didn't he say the best of men after Muhammed s.a.w was Abu Bakr, then Umar, and that he himself was just an ordinary person? Didn't he claim the superiority of Abu Bakr, and Umar over all men after the Prophet Muhammed s.a.w?

If you believed all of the above, would you deny giving Bayah to someone for six whole months? It is unanimously accepted that Ali a.s did not give Bayah to Abu Bakr for six whole months. Does that seem normal? Did he think he had a right over Abu Bakr? Surely not, he would, allegedly, have known of all of these ahadith narrated and tagged to his name, extolling their merits. Did he merely reject Abu Bakr for 6 months because he was sad they didn't consult him? Why is matter?  If they had consulted him, would he have not voted clearly, for Abu Bakr anyway? Should he not have been happy the clear-cut best man after Muhammed s.a.w was appointed?

If one is not happy, maybe they would be sad for a day, perhaps a week. But to abstain and not give bayah for six whole months is a very, very serious issue.

The bottom line is, there are so many plot-holes in these ahadith.

 

 

 

Brother, I am not talking about other events or ahadith. Why Imam Ali a.s gave bayah after 6 months is not related to ghadir. OP is specifically about what happend at ghadir, what was its purpose and meaning. How Imam ALi a.s and other close companions understood from it. Was it about caliphate or something else? Incident of pen and paper is itself a big question/refutation for those who believe ghadir was about caliphate. And we see even Imam Ali a.s had no idea about it. Narration of Ibn Abbas clearly shows that. Isnt it shocking? Similarly no one from among the companions considered ghadir in terms of appointment of caliph/leader. Due to this they chose and gave bayah to Abu Bakr r.a. And if ghadir was really about divine appointment for caliph, then by chosing Abu Bakr r.a and rejecting the orders of Allah, about 99% of companions became either disbelievers or hypocrites.

ALso we see that no where in sermons of nahjul balagha Imam Ali a.s used event of ghadir or anything similiar from Prophet s.a.w.w as a proof for being his divinly appointed caliph. He only points to his being the most deserving of the caliphate and one who with more right to it.

I want to learn from you, what was Imam Ali a.s understanding on ghadir? Any sermon or narration on this? Or any will of Imam Ali a.s which discuss ghadir?

 

 

4 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

Muhammed s.a.w placed the word 'mawla' in context. He first reminded the people what relationship he had to them:

1. Do i not have more authority over you than you have over your own selves?

Thus, Muhammed s.a.w frames and clearly ensures the people know that their relationship to him is one of absolute authority.

2. Then he raises the hand of Ali a.s

When one raises the hand of another, this body language is a powerful statement. In sport, it is used to appoint a winner. In politics, i have often seen people raise the hand of an incumbent politician, or one they endorse to be leader. Ofcourse, it has other uses.

3. Whomsoevers mawla i am , Ali is his mawla.

Clearly, after ensuring and allowing the people to proclaim that Muhammed s.a.w's relationship to them is one where he has absolute authority over them, he then states whoever he has that relationship with, Ali a.s also has that relationship over them. Thus Mawla is placed within the framed context of authority, and thus means master, leader etc.

Furthermore, while people respected Muhammed s.a.w atleast outwardly, there was certianly jealousy of Ali a.s, and perhaps there were not true believers in the crowd, who sought for power after Muhammed s.a.w's death. Thus, the Prophet s.a.w in my eyes made a very powerful gesture. The same authority he had over the people, Ali a.s has it too. If your heart is in two minds, respecting the Prophet but having questions over Ali a.s, know that if the Prophet s.a.w is your master, Ali a.s is also your master.

 

 

 

If it was really in that sense as you are saying then why muhajir and ansaar not accepted Imam Ali a.s as their master/leader/caliph. Recall letter 6 of nahjul balagha, where Imam Ali a.s had clearly said that...

"consultation is confined to the muhajirun and the ansar. If they agree on an individual and take him to be Caliph it will be deemed to mean Allah's pleasure"

This was belief of Imam Ali a.s.

Edited by Fahad Sani

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4 hours ago, celestial said:

Lol. You quote from sunni books and sunni scholars to prove something to shias? Why don't you go join ummah.org or something?

Yeah yeah, prophet gathered thousands of people just to say "Listen everyone, Ali is my friend and I love him".

Like he didn't do this countless times before. Sounds pretty logical.

 

3 hours ago, Aabiss_Shakari said:

My christian friend was not accepting that God/Allah is one because he believed in trinity. I recited Surah Touheed from Quran to prove my point. Makes sense?

 

Truth is truth. Doesnt matter whether its from sunni books or shia books. Islam is only one there is nothing like sunni islam or shia islam.

All such things are also there in shia books. But from sunni books its very easy to find anything you want by using search tools, as everyone here on SC is doing and sharing ahadith and narrations from sunnah.com and other sites. WHile same facility is not available with shia books (kutb e arba and other classical books) with english translation. Also because I wanted to narrate from most authentic and early sources of ahadith thats why I chose those sources.

Here is one related narration from shia book. WHich shows how companions understood from Prophet's sermon of ghadir. As narrated by Imam Baqir a.s.

 

عن سالم قيل  لعمر نراك تصنع بغلي شيئا لا تصنعه بأحد من أصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه وآله ، قال : إنه مولاي .
وعن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال : جاء أعرابيان إلى عمر يختصمان ، فقال عمر : يا أبا الحسن اقض بينهما ، فقضى على أحدهما ، فقال المقتضي عليه : يا أميرالمؤمنين هذا يقتضي بيننا ؟ فوثب إليه عمرفأخذ بتلبيبه ولببه  ثم قال : ويحك ما ندري من هذا ؟ هذا مولاي ومولى كل مؤمن ، ومن لم يكن مولاه فليس بمؤمن

Narrated Salim: they said to caliph Umar: we see you treating Ali like you treat no other of the Companions of the Prophet(SAWS)? he said: He is my Mawla(friend). Imam al Baqir said: Once two wondering Arabs came to the caliph Umar so that he may Judge between them, So umar said to Ali: O Abu al Hassan why don’t you Judge between them. So he made his ruling on one of the two, Then That wondering Arab said: O Ameer al Momineen(Umar) Do you let this(man) judge between us!? So Umar quickly stood up and shouted at the Man: How dare you, do you not know who this is? He is my Mawla and the Malwa of every believer and if he’s not your Malwa then you’re not a believer.

[Bihar al Anwar Vol-40, P-124] https://www.aqaed.com/ahlulbait/books/behar40/a13.html

Now compare this with OP.

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13 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Truth is truth. Doesnt matter whether its from sunni books or shia books. Islam is only one there is nothing like sunni islam or shia islam.

Alright. I'm gonna present you hadiths from Shia books and you are gonna accept them. Okay?

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Logically speaking......would the prophet...the most perfect human being with excellence in all fields of knowledge, morals, ethics etc etc....randomly stop thousands of people whom btw are dead tired from all the walking......to say:

"gather up people....listen up.....love ali ok? And be the enemy of his enemies ok? Ok...sooooo any questions? Good..lets keep walking."

 

One would think that sooooome logic would go into some of these claims.

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

Here is one related narration from shia book. WHich shows how companions understood from Prophet's sermon of ghadir. As narrated by Imam Baqir a.s.

 

عن سالم قيل  لعمر نراك تصنع بغلي شيئا لا تصنعه بأحد من أصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه وآله ، قال : إنه مولاي .
وعن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال : جاء أعرابيان إلى عمر يختصمان ، فقال عمر : يا أبا الحسن اقض بينهما ، فقضى على أحدهما ، فقال المقتضي عليه : يا أميرالمؤمنين هذا يقتضي بيننا ؟ فوثب إليه عمرفأخذ بتلبيبه ولببه  ثم قال : ويحك ما ندري من هذا ؟ هذا مولاي ومولى كل مؤمن ، ومن لم يكن مولاه فليس بمؤمن

Narrated Salim: they said to caliph Umar: we see you treating Ali like you treat no other of the Companions of the Prophet(SAWS)? he said: He is my Mawla(friend). Imam al Baqir said: Once two wondering Arabs came to the caliph Umar so that he may Judge between them, So umar said to Ali: O Abu al Hassan why don’t you Judge between them. So he made his ruling on one of the two, Then That wondering Arab said: O Ameer al Momineen(Umar) Do you let this(man) judge between us!? So Umar quickly stood up and shouted at the Man: How dare you, do you not know who this is? He is my Mawla and the Malwa of every believer and if he’s not your Malwa then you’re not a believer.

[Bihar al Anwar Vol-40, P-124] https://www.aqaed.com/ahlulbait/books/behar40/a13.html

Now compare this with OP.

This doesn't prove anything. Instead we can say that as you took the word friend in the bracket we can put master in that place. Also see here how your caliph umar was incapable of solving a small matter, let alone solving religious issue.

And btw, what is this hypocrisy. where is the chain of narrators? where is sanad?. No authentication? why, just because it 'may' suit your agenda.

Edited by Lover of Ahlulbait (ams)

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:ws:

You forgot to mention a few other important things.

Quote

The Messenger of Allah declared: "It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere both of them,you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."

Then the Messenger of Allah continued: "Do I not have more right over the believers than what they have over themselves?" People cried and answered: "Yes, O' Messenger of God." Then Prophet (saww) held up the hand of Ali and said: "Whoever I am his Mawla, Ali is his Mawla. O' God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him."

Quote

 

Immediately after the Prophet (saww) finished his speech, the following verse of Holy Quran was revealed:

"Today I have perfected your religion and completed my bounty upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion." (Quran 5:3)

 

I wonder why ^

Quote

After his speech, the Messenger of Allah asked every body to give the oath of allegiance to Ali (as) and congratulate him. Among those who gave him the oath were Umar, Abu Bakr, and Uthman. It is narrated that Umar and Abu Bakr said:

"Well done Ibn Abi Talib! Today you became the leader (Mawla) of all believing men and women.

Interesting, No?

Quote

The Prophet (saww) said:

"Ali is unto me as Aaron was to Moses except that there is no Prophet after me."

Ever wondered what the relation was between Aaron & Moses?

Perhaps you'll like this thread.

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3 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

 

Truth is truth. Doesnt matter whether its from sunni books or shia books. Islam is only one there is nothing like sunni islam or shia islam.

All such things are also there in shia books. But from sunni books its very easy to find anything you want by using search tools, as everyone here on SC is doing and sharing ahadith and narrations from sunnah.com and other sites. WHile same facility is not available with shia books (kutb e arba and other classical books) with english translation. Also because I wanted to narrate from most authentic and early sources of ahadith thats why I chose those sources.

Sermon 3: By Allah, the son of Abu Quhafah….

Known as the Sermon of ash-Shiqshiqiyah1

ومن خطبة له (عليه السلام) المعروفة بالشِّقْشِقِيَّة

وتشتمل على الشكوى من أمر الخلافة ثم ترجيح صبره عنها ثم مبايعة الناس له

Beware! By Allah, the son of Abu Quhafah (Abu Bakr)2 dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill. The flood water flows down from me and the bird cannot fly upto me. I put a curtain against the caliphate and kept myself detached from it.

Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death).

أَمَا وَالله لَقَدْ تَقَمَّصَها ابْنُ اَبى قُحافَةَ ، وَإِنَّهُ لَيَعْلَمُ أَنَّ مَحَلِّيَ مِنهَا مَحَلُّ القُطْبِ مِنَ الرَّحَا، يَنْحَدِرُ عَنِّي السَّيْلُ، وَلا يَرْقَى إِلَيَّ الطَّيْرُ، فَسَدَلْتُ دُونَهَا ثَوْباً، وَطَوَيْتُ عَنْهَا كَشْحاً، وَطَفِقْتُ أَرْتَئِي بَيْنَ أَنْ أَصُولَ بِيَد جَذَّاءَ، أَوْ أَصْبِرَ عَلَى طَخْيَة عَمْيَاءَ، يَهْرَمُ فيهَا الكَبيرُ، وَيَشِيبُ فِيهَا الصَّغِيرُ، وَيَكْدَحُ فِيهَا مُؤْمِنٌ حَتَّى يَلْقَى رَبَّهُ.

Proposes Patience in Absence of Supporters

ترجيح الصبرعلى فقد الاعوان

I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was [Edited Out]ing in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat. I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.

(Then he quoted al-A`sha’s verse):

My days are now passed on the camel’s back (in difficulty) while there were days (of ease) when I enjoyed the company of Jabir’s brother Hayyan.3

فَرَأَيْتُ أَنَّ الصَّبْرَ عَلَى هَاتَا أَحْجَى، فَصَبَرتُ وَفي الْعَيْنِ قَذىً، وَفي الحَلْقِ شَجاً، أرى تُرَاثي نَهْباً، حَتَّى مَضَى الاْوَّلُ لِسَبِيلِهِ، فَأَدْلَى بِهَا إِلَى ابْنِ الْخَطّابِ بَعْدَهُ. ( ثم تمثل بقول الاعشى):

شَتّانَ ما يَومي عَاى كُوْرِها * و يَوْمُ حَيَّانَ أخي جابِرِ

It is strange that during his lifetime he wished to be released from the caliphate but he confirmed it for the other one after his death. No doubt these two shared its udders strictly among themselves. This one put the Caliphate in a tough enclosure where the utterance was haughty and the touch was rough. Mistakes were in plenty and so also the excuses therefore. One in contact with it was like the rider of an unruly camel. If he pulled up its rein the very nostril would be slit, but if he let it loose he would be thrown. Consequently, by Allah people got involved in recklessness, wickedness, unsteadiness and deviation.

فَيَا عَجَباً!! بَيْنَا هُوَ يَسْتَقِيلُها في حَيَاتِهِ إِذْ عَقَدَهَا لاخَرَ بَعْدَ وَفَاتِهِ ـ لَشَدَّ مَا تَشَطَّرَا ضَرْعَيْهَا ! ـ فَصَيَّرَهَا في حَوْزَة خَشْنَاءَ، يَغْلُظُ كَلْمُهَا، وَيَخْشُنُ مَسُّهَا، وَيَكْثُرُ العِثَارُ فِيهَا وَالاْعْتَذَارُ مِنْهَا، فَصَاحِبُهَا كَرَاكِبِ الصَّعْبَةِ، إِنْ أَشْنَقَ لَهَا خَرَمَ، وَإِنْ أَسْلَسَ لَهَا تَقَحَّمَ، فَمُنِيَ النَّاسُ ـ لَعَمْرُ اللهِ ـ بِخَبْط وَشِمَاس، وَتَلَوُّن وَاعْتِرَاض.

Nevertheless, I remained patient despite length of period and stiffness of trial, till when he went his way (of death) he put the matter (of Caliphate) in a group4 and regarded me to be one of them. But good Heavens! What had I to do with this “consultation”? Where was any doubt about me with regard to the first of them that I was now considered akin to these ones? But I remained low when they were low and flew high when they flew high.

One of them turned against me because of his hatred and the other got inclined the other way due to his in-law relationship and this thing and that thing, till the third man of these people stood up with heaving breasts between his dung and fodder. With him his children of his grand-father, (Umayyah) also stood up swallowing up Allah’s wealth5 like a camel devouring the foliage of spring, till his rope broke down, his actions finished him and his gluttony brought him down prostrate.

فَصَبَرْتُ عَلَى طُولِ الْمُدَّةِ، وَشِدَّةِ الْمحْنَةِ، حَتَّى إِذا مَضَى لِسَبِيلِهِ جَعَلَهَا في جَمَاعَة زَعَمَ أَنَّي أَحَدُهُمْ. فَيَاللهِ وَلِلشُّورَى! مَتَى اعْتَرَضَ الرَّيْبُ فِيَّ مَعَ الاْوَّلِ مِنْهُمْ، حَتَّى صِرْتُ أُقْرَنُ إِلَى هذِهِ النَّظَائِرِ! لكِنِّي أَسفَفْتُ إِذْ أَسَفُّوا، وَطِرْتُ إِذْ طَارُوا، فَصَغَا رَجُلُ مِنْهُمْ لِضِغْنِه، وَمَالَ الاْخَرُ لِصِهْرهِ، مَعَ هَن وَهَن. إِلَى أَنْ قَامَ ثَالِثُ القَوْمِ، نَافِجَاً حِضْنَيْهِ بَيْنَ نَثِيلهِ وَمُعْتَلَفِهِ، وَقَامَ مَعَهُ بَنُو أَبِيهِ يَخْضَمُونَ مَالَ اللهِ خَضْمَ الاْبِل نِبْتَةَ الرَّبِيعِ، إِلَى أَنِ انْتَكَثَ عَلَيْهِ فَتْلُهُ، وَأَجْهَزَ عَلَيْهِ عَمَلُهُ، وَكَبَتْ بِهِ بِطْنَتُهُ.

Allegiance paid to ‘Ali

مبايعة علي (عليه السلام(

At that moment, nothing took me by surprise, but the crowd of people rushing to me. It advanced towards me from every side like the mane of the hyena so much so that Hasan and Husayn were getting crushed and both the ends of my shoulder garment were torn. They collected around me like a herd of sheep and goats. When I took up the reins of government one party broke away and another turned disobedient while the rest began acting wrongfully as if they had not heard the word of Allah saying:

That abode in the hereafter, We assign it for those who intend not to exult themselves in the earth, nor (to make) mischief (therein); and the end is (best) for the pious ones. (Qur’an, 28:83)

فَمَا رَاعَنِي إلاَّ وَالنَّاسُ إليَّ كَعُرْفِ الضَّبُعِ، يَنْثَالُونَ عَلَيَّ مِنْ كُلِّ جَانِب، حَتَّى لَقَدْ وُطِىءَ الحَسَنَانِ، وَشُقَّ عِطْفَايَ، مُجْتَمِعِينَ حَوْلي كَرَبِيضَةِ الغَنَمِ. فَلَمَّا نَهَضْتُ بِالاْمرِ نَكَثَتْ طَائِفَةٌ، وَمَرَقَتْ أُخْرَى، وَفَسَقَ [وقسط] آخَرُونَ كَأَنَّهُمْ لَمْ يَسْمَعُوا اللهَ سُبْحَانَهُ يَقُولُ: (تِلْكَ الدَّارُ الاخِرَةُ نَجْعَلُهَا للَّذِينَ لاَ يُريدُونَ عُلُوّاً في الاَرْضِ وَلاَ فَسَاداً وَالعَاقِبَةُ لِلْمُتَّقِينَ(،

Yes, by Allah, they had heard it and understood it but the world appeared glittering in their eyes and its embellishments seduced them. Behold, by Him who split the grain (to grow) and created living beings, if people had not come to me and supporters had not exhausted the argument and if there had been no pledge of Allah with the learned to the effect that they should not acquiesce in the gluttony of the oppressor and the hunger of the oppressed I would have cast the rope of Caliphate on its own shoulders, and would have given the last one the same treatment as to the first one. Then you would have seen that in my view this world of yours is no better than the sneezing of a goat.

بَلَى! وَاللهِ لَقَدْ سَمِعُوهَا وَوَعَوْهَا، وَلكِنَّهُمْ حَلِيَتَ الدُّنْيَا في أَعْيُنِهمْ، وَرَاقَهُمْ زِبْرِجُهَا! أَمَا وَالَّذِي فَلَقَ الْحَبَّةَ، وَبَرَأَ النَّسَمَةَ، لَوْلاَ حُضُورُ الْحَاضِرِ، وَقِيَامُ الْحُجَّةِ بِوُجُودِ النَّاصِرِ، وَمَا أَخَذَ اللهُ عَلَى العُلَمَاءِ أَلاَّ يُقَارُّوا عَلَى كِظَّةِ ظَالِم، وَلا سَغَبِ مَظْلُوم، لاَلقَيْتُ حَبْلَهَا عَلَى غَارِبِهَا، وَلَسَقَيْتُ آخِرَهَا بِكَأْسِ أَوَّلِها، وَلاَلفَيْتُمْ دُنْيَاكُمْ هذِهِ أَزْهَدَ عِنْدِي مِنْ عَفْطَةِ عَنْز!

(It is said that when Amir al-mu’minin reached here in his sermon a man of Iraq stood up and handed him over a writing. Amir al-mu’minin began looking at it, when Ibn `Abbas said, “O’ Amir al-mu’minin, I wish you resumed your Sermon from where you broke it.” Thereupon he replied, “O’ Ibn `Abbas it was like the foam of a Camel which gushed out but subsided.” Ibn `Abbas says that he never grieved over any utterance as he did over this one because Amir al-mu’minin could not finish it as he wished to.)

قالوا: وقام إِليه رجل من أهل السوادعند بلوغه إلى هذا الموضع من خطبته، فناوله كتاباً، فأقبل ينظر فيه، فلمّا فرغ من قراءته قال له ابن عباس: يا أميرالمؤمنين، لو اطَّرَدت مَقالتكَ من حيث أَفضيتَ! فَقَالَ(عليه السلام): هَيْهَاتَ يَابْنَ عَبَّاس! تِلْكَ شِقْشِقَةٌ هَدَرَتْ ثُمَّ قَرَّتْ! قال ابن عباس: فوالله ما أَسفت على كلام قطّ كأَسفي على ذلك الكلام أَلاَّ يكون أميرالمؤمنين (عليه السلام) بلغ منه حيث أراد.

Al-Sharif al-Radi says: The words in this sermon “like the rider of a camel” mean to convey that when a camel rider is stiff in drawing up the rein then in this scuffle the nostril gets bruised, but if he lets it loose in spite of the camel’s unruliness, it would throw him somewhere and would get out of control. “ashnaq an-naqah” is used when the rider holds up the rein and raises the camel’s head upwards. In the same sense the word “shanaqa an-naqah” is used. Ibn as-Sikkit has mentioned this in Islah al-Mantiq.

Amir al-mu’minin has said “ashnaqa laha”instead of “ashnaqaha”, this is because he has used this word in harmony with “aslasa laha” and harmony could be retained only by using both in the same form. Thus, Amir al-mu’minin has used “ashnaqa laha” as though in place of “in rafa`a laha ra’saha”, that is, “if he stops it by holding up the reins.”

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9 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Imam Shafai r.a words about ghadir. Same Imam Shafai who is famous for his words "If love for Muhammads ‘aal’ (family) is Rafdh (heresy). Then Jinn and Men bear witness I am a Rafidhi (heretic)." Being a Rafidhi he also had not considered ghadir in meaning of caliphate.

A Rafidi is a Kaffir according to Sunni. A Rafidi (Rejects) the Caliphate of abu Bakr, Omar, Usman, Muawiya, Yazid, ......

Sunni believe in Predestination, therefore they believe abu Bakr, Omar, Usman, Muawiya, Yazid, ...... were appointed by Allah. Therefore, anyone who Rafidi (Rejects) the Will of Allah by Rejecting abu Bakr, Omar, Usman, Muawiya, Yazid, ......

Know Arabic and Islamic terms well, so that you can know Islam, rather than copy/pasting right and left.

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4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Brother, I am not talking about other events or ahadith. Why Imam Ali a.s gave bayah after 6 months is not related to ghadir.

Ali never gave the bayah. I am sure that you cooked hadiths are full of them. Ali, Hassan and Hussain never gave bayah, and abu Bakr, Omar, Usman and Muawiya were intelligent enough to realize this and never enforced from them. They Imams never legitimize their rules.

The dimwits Zayid (la) insisted bayah from Hussain for legitimize his rule. Hussain refused and rest is history.

Know the history of Islam, and know the history of Holy Quran.

Islam is a total message and not itty bitty events, and captured by Bukhari 250 years later after the death of the Prophet.

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