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Does Islam accept non trianitarian Chrsitians?

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Does the Quran say that all Christians who have a belief that Jesus Christ (a.s) was a human and prophet just like Muslims and who believe in God as Muslims and judgment day are accepted to enter heaven if they are righteous?

God bless you :)

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I wouldn't know exactly where to find good references from the Qur'an - but I've done some reading on 'Unitarian' Christian tradition: which I believe is the faith you are describing.

From what I understand - broadly as Muslims we are instructed that the closest people to us, we should treat with respect, after our Muslim brothers and sisters, are the Ahle Kitab (Christians and Jews).

I think that there may even be some criticism of those who associate partners with Allah, and also that he has not taken any sons.

So if anything, my reason would suggest to me that Unitarian Christians would be closer in belief to Muslims than Trinitarian Christians.

It would probably be smart for a Muslim to treat both groups with a similar degree of respect though, IMO.

 

Allah Knows Best! (and is the best of Judges)

WaSalaam!

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6 minutes ago, The Batman said:

They are kafir as well. 

You can make a case though that they are closer to the truth than the others, though.

Surely they are ahlul kitab not kafir? And more so because they don't associate Allah having children. The Quran does mention the acceptance of righteous people of the book.

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2 hours ago, Loveall said:

Does the Quran say that all Christians who have a belief that Jesus Christ (a.s) was a human and prophet just like Muslims and who believe in God as Muslims and judgment day are accepted to enter heaven if they are righteous?

God bless you :)

Based Soley on logic i would say if the beliefs hold same as Christians but do not associate Allah with having children then that is one step closer to being muslim the only difference would remain is the prophet Muhammad being the final messenger. So you could assume until verified by a marja, that they are better and more true Christians, due to being closer to the truth. This is given they are righteous 

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Chapter 2, verse 62

Surat Al-Baqarah

 
Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
translation of Shakir
 
 
 
now if you look into other translations, you will find many {} being used for example

PICKTHALL

Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

YUSUF ALI

Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

 

The question is : Is the verse talking about those lived before the prophet's message? Dose it speak about those whom the message of prophet did not reach them yet? but they are righteous and sincere in faith?

في الدر المنثور،: عن سلمان الفارسي قال: سألت النبي (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) عن أهل دين كنت معهم، فذكر من صلاتهم و عبادتهم فنزلت: «إن الذين آمنوا و الذين هادوا» الآية: أقول: و روي أيضا نزول الآية في أصحاب سلمان بعدة طرق أخرى.

In the book " Al-Durr Al-Manthour" it is narrated that Salman Al Farsi asked the prophet about the religious people he was living with before he meets the prophet, the verse was revealed to answer Salman.

 

Salman the persian has a fascinating story. His name was Rozba, his father name was Kheshifothan? . He was a dehqan?  (The dehqan or dihqan, were a class of land-owning magnates during the Sasanian and early Islamic period, found throughout Iranian-speaking lands) They lived in Asfahan. His father kept him in house and Salman turned to devoted Zoroastrian. One day his father sent him to run an errand , on his way he passed by a  Church and there Salman was first exposed to a religion that is not his. He was fascinated by their prayer and wanted to learn more about it. They told him that the best place to learn about this religion is Sham. Salman went to Sham. He served "unnamed" Bishop in "unnamed" city. The bishop was too old so he was on his deathbed soon. Salman asked him " where should i go after your death?" The bishop said " people are doomed as they have abandoned their religion, except a man in Mosul/Iraq" .So Salman went to that man in Mosul. The same story got repeated and he was recommended to go to Nusaybin/Turkey. The Turkish christian before his death recommended Salman to go to Amorium in the Roman Byzantine Empire.

The one in Amorium told Salman that most people have abandoned the religion and he better head to Arabia for there is the seal of prophethood, a man that dose not accept charity but accepts gifts, with a mark on his shoulder. So Salman headed to Arabia, on his way an arab caravan accompanied him then they sort of kidnapped him? and sold him as slave to a Jewish man who brought him to Madinah.

 

كان اسمه روزبه في بلاد فارس، واسم أبيه خشفوذان من دهاقين فارس ـ وقيل من أساورتها ـ ومن كبار الزرادشتيين في أصفهان، له إمرة على بعض الفلاحين من أبناء أصفهان. كان واسع الحال يملك بعض المزارع شأن غيره من الطبقة الوسطى في المجتمع الفارسي آنذاك، وكانت لولده سلمان مكانة خاصة في نفسه جعلته يستأثر بالنصيب الأكبر من اهتماماته. [٢]


وقد تحدّث سلمان نفسه عن رحلته طلبا للحقيقة قائلا: كنت ابن دهقان (شيخ القرية في بلاد فارس) قرية جي من أصبهان، وبلغ من حبّ أبي لي أن حبسني في البيت كما تُحبس الجارية، فاجتهدت في المجوسية حتى صرت قطن (خادما) بيت النار، فأرسلني أبي يوما إلى ضيعة له، فمررت بكنيسة النصارى، فدخلت عليهم، فأعجبتني صلاتهم، فقلت: دين هؤلاء خير من ديني، فسألتهم: أين أصل هذا الدين؟ قالوا: بالشام، فهربت من والدي حتى قدمت الشام، فدخلت على الأسقف (من وظائف النصرانية، وهو فوق القسيس ودون المطران) فجعلت أخدمه وأتعلم منه، حتى حضرته الوفاة، فقلت: إلى من توصي بي؟ فقال: قد هلك الناس، وتركوا دينهم إلا رجلا بالموصل فالحق به، فلما قضى نحبه لحقت بذلك الرجل فلم يلبث إلا قليلا حتى حضرته الوفاة، فقلت: إلى من توصي بي؟ فقال: ما أعلم رجلا بقي على الطريقة المستقيمة إلا رجلا بنصيبين، فلحقت بصاحب نصيبين.


ثم احتضر صاحب نصيبين، فبعثني إلى رجل بعمورية من أرض الروم، فأتيته وأقمت عنده، واكتسبت بقيرات وغنيمات، فلما نزل به الموت قلت له: بمن توصي بي؟ فقال: قد ترك الناس دينهم، وما بقي أحد منهم على الحق، وقد أظل زمان نبي مبعوث بدين إبراهيم، يخرج بأرض العرب مهاجراً إلى أرض بين حرتين، لها نخل، قلت: فما علامته؟ قال: يأكل الهدية ولا يأكل الصدقة، بين كتفيه خاتم النبوة، قال: ومر بي ركب من كلب، فخرجت معهم، فلما بلغوا بي وادي القرى ظلموني وباعونى من يهودي، فكنت أعمل له في زرعه ونخله، فبينا أنا عنده إذ قدم ابن عم له، فابتاعني منه، وحملني إلى المدينة

Edited by Chaotic Muslem
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1 hour ago, The Batman said:

They are kafir as well. 

You can make a case though that they are closer to the truth than the others, though.

I disagree completely, a Christian who does not follow the doctrine of Trinity nor the 'blood -sacrifice' of Christ to atone for sin is definitely not a kafir in my books. Christianity from the very start was brought down with the same message - to spread the Word of God and to submit to Allah without any partners. Allama Tabatabai in Tafsir Al-Mizan says that the Injeel of Jesus was pretty much identical to 'the other two revelations', that being the Torah and Quran:

Specifically, Allama Tabatabai says:

First: The Injil mentioned in this verse - and it means Good News - was a book revealed to 'Isa (a.s.); it was not merely a "good news" without a book. But Allah has not given any detail in His Book as to how it was revealed, contrary to what He has done regarding the Torah and the Qur'an. He says about the Torah:

He said: "O Musa! Surely I have chosen you above the people with My messages and with My words, therefore take hold of what I give to you and be of the grateful ones. "And We wrote for him in the tablets admonition from everything and clear explanation of all things...(7:144-5). ...he took up the tablets, and in the writing thereof was guidance and mercy for those who fear for the sake of their Lord (7:154).

And He says especially for the Qur'an:

The Faithful Sprit has descended with it, upon your heart that you may be of the warners, in plain Arabic language (26:193-5). Most surely it is the Word of an honoured messenger, the possessor of strength, having an honourable place with the Lord of the Throne, one(to be) obeyed, and faithful in trust (81:19-21). In honoured books, exalted, purified, in the hands of scribes, noble, virtuous (80:13-16). Although Allah has not mentioned anything regarding revelation of Injil and its particulars, yet the verse under discussion mentions its revelation to 'Isa (a.s.) side by side with the coming down of Torah on Musa (a.s.), and revelation of the Qur'an on Muhammad (may Allah's blessings be on him and his progeny) and it proves that Injil too was a book like the other two.

 

 @Chaotic Muslem gave the best and only reference that explicitly calls the people of 'Nazarene', i.e Christians of Jesus (a.s), a people who under the criteria of believing in Allah and Judgement Day as well as good works, will have a place in paradise.

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5 hours ago, HayderM said:

Surely they are ahlul kitab not kafir? And more so because they don't associate Allah having children. The Quran does mention the acceptance of righteous people of the book.

They are counted as kuffar. All non-Muslims are kafir.

Quote

٢السؤال: ما هو تعريفكم للكافر؟

الجواب: الكافر ، و هو من لم ينتخل ديناً، أو انتحل ديناً غير الإسلام أو انتحل الإسلام و جحد ما يعلم أنه من الدين الإسلامي بحيث رجع جحده إلى إنكار الرسالة و لو في الجملة بأن يرجع إلى تكذيب النبي صلى الله عليه و آله في بعض ما بلغه عن الله تعالى في العقائد ـ كالمعاد ـ أو في غيرها كالأحكام الفرعية ، و أما إذا لم يرجع جحده إلى ذلك بأن كان بسبب بعده عن محيط المسلمين و جهله بأحكام هذا الدين فلا يحكم بكفره ، و أما الفرق الضالة المنتحلة للإسلام فتختلف الحال فيهم .

Question: What is your defintion of a kafir?

Answer: The kafir, and it is he who has no religion, or chose a religion other than Islam, or he chose Islam but denied from Islam what he knows is from Islam etc...

http://www.sistani.org/arabic/qa/0655/

 I don't know why this surprises people, is it the fact that they want to please the Jews and the Christians?

Edited by The Batman
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3 hours ago, Jafar moh said:

I disagree completely, a Christian who does not follow the doctrine of Trinity nor the 'blood -sacrifice' of Christ to atone for sin is definitely not a kafir in my books. Christianity from the very start was brought down with the same message - to spread the Word of God and to submit to Allah without any partners. Allama Tabatabai in Tafsir Al-Mizan says that the Injeel of Jesus was pretty much identical to 'the other two revelations', that being the Torah and Quran:

Specifically, Allama Tabatabai says:

First: The Injil mentioned in this verse - and it means Good News - was a book revealed to 'Isa (a.s.); it was not merely a "good news" without a book. But Allah has not given any detail in His Book as to how it was revealed, contrary to what He has done regarding the Torah and the Qur'an. He says about the Torah:

He said: "O Musa! Surely I have chosen you above the people with My messages and with My words, therefore take hold of what I give to you and be of the grateful ones. "And We wrote for him in the tablets admonition from everything and clear explanation of all things...(7:144-5). ...he took up the tablets, and in the writing thereof was guidance and mercy for those who fear for the sake of their Lord (7:154).

And He says especially for the Qur'an:

The Faithful Sprit has descended with it, upon your heart that you may be of the warners, in plain Arabic language (26:193-5). Most surely it is the Word of an honoured messenger, the possessor of strength, having an honourable place with the Lord of the Throne, one(to be) obeyed, and faithful in trust (81:19-21). In honoured books, exalted, purified, in the hands of scribes, noble, virtuous (80:13-16). Although Allah has not mentioned anything regarding revelation of Injil and its particulars, yet the verse under discussion mentions its revelation to 'Isa (a.s.) side by side with the coming down of Torah on Musa (a.s.), and revelation of the Qur'an on Muhammad (may Allah's blessings be on him and his progeny) and it proves that Injil too was a book like the other two.

 

 @Chaotic Muslem gave the best and only reference that explicitly calls the people of 'Nazarene', i.e Christians of Jesus (a.s), a people who under the criteria of believing in Allah and Judgement Day as well as good works, will have a place in paradise.

Too bad, the Fiqhi definition of a kafir is a non-Muslim. Read the quote of Sistani above.

Even the so-called Muslim who denies a fundamental part of the Religion while knowing it is part of it (such as the Daily Prayers) is a kafir.

So if denying part of the religion (such as Salat) makes one a kafir, imagine how bad it is to deny the Prophethood of Muhammad itself.

Let's not make attempts to please the kuffar.

And no, non-Muslims are in Hell just as all the deviant sects of Islam are (the other 73).

Chaotic Muslem proved that those who have not heard the message yet and are sincere will be possibly forgiven, as for those whom the Message of Islam has reached, it is their fault completely.

Edited by The Batman
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4 minutes ago, The Batman said:

Too bad, the Fiqhi definition of a kafir is a non-Muslim. Read the quote of Sistani above.

Even the so-called Muslim who denies a fundamental part of the Religion while knowing it is part of it (such as the Daily Prayers) is a kafir.

So if denying part of the religion (such as Salat) makes one a kafir, imagine how bad it is to deny the Prophethood of Muhammad itself.

Let's not make attempts to please the kuffar.

" We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, confirming what was before it of the Book and as a guardian over it. So judge between them by what Allah has sent down, and do not follow their desires against the truth that has come to you. For each [community] among you We had appointed a code [of law] and a path,1 and had Allah wished He would have made you one community, but [His purposes required] that He should test you in respect to what He has given you. So take the lead in all good works. To Allah shall be the return of you all, whereat He will inform you concerning that about which you used to differ. "[Quran 5:48]

In that sense I see what you now mean, and although the majority of the Christian faith do believe in those major doctrines that the Quran disagrees with (atonement and trinity), you cannot sensibly stir them in the same pot with one who denies those doctrines. A Christian who denies the trinity and the atonement will soon under circumstance accept exactly what the Quran is meaning to imply.

There is a big difference between denying and neglecting. A Christian may neglect the salah or the teachings of the prophet because they may have not yet been given sufficient information , but what if they do not agree with the two major Christian doctrines? Call it attempts to please the kuffar and anything you'd like, but it is no secret that once a Christian denies the indoctrination of the trinity and the atonement (thereby denying the deity of Christ), there are no obstacles barring their way to the submission to Allah (swt). It will simply come naturally to them because they will find peace, logic, and reasoning with what the Quran tells us in terms of the Islamic view (because it is how they thought anyways).

But we both do not know what is in the heart of Christians, even when they come to this position in their life, so it is best to leave it to Allah's Will. If they seek Him, they will find.

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1 hour ago, Jafar moh said:

" We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, confirming what was before it of the Book and as a guardian over it. So judge between them by what Allah has sent down, and do not follow their desires against the truth that has come to you. For each [community] among you We had appointed a code [of law] and a path,1 and had Allah wished He would have made you one community, but [His purposes required] that He should test you in respect to what He has given you. So take the lead in all good works. To Allah shall be the return of you all, whereat He will inform you concerning that about which you used to differ. "[Quran 5:48]

In that sense I see what you now mean, and although the majority of the Christian faith do believe in those major doctrines that the Quran disagrees with (atonement and trinity), you cannot sensibly stir them in the same pot with one who denies those doctrines. A Christian who denies the trinity and the atonement will soon under circumstance accept exactly what the Quran is meaning to imply.

There is a big difference between denying and neglecting. A Christian may neglect the salah or the teachings of the prophet because they may have not yet been given sufficient information , but what if they do not agree with the two major Christian doctrines? Call it attempts to please the kuffar and anything you'd like, but it is no secret that once a Christian denies the indoctrination of the trinity and the atonement (thereby denying the deity of Christ), there are no obstacles barring their way to the submission to Allah (swt). It will simply come naturally to them because they will find peace, logic, and reasoning with what the Quran tells us in terms of the Islamic view (because it is how they thought anyways).

But we both do not know what is in the heart of Christians, even when they come to this position in their life, so it is best to leave it to Allah's Will. If they seek Him, they will find.

I do believe the first step to the truth is to deny those two doctrines which are obviously contradictory to the Holy Qur'an. 

I believe the Jews who rejected the Prophet Isa [as] are obviously kafir, just as the Christians who reject the Prophet Muhammad [saww].

However, I do agree with you about neglecting and rejecting.

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If the message of Islam is completely understood by a non-muslim,he is under obligation to accept it as quickly as possible0otherwise he is an infidel (kafir).

Do not forget brothers and sisters one must believe in three pillars to be counted as a muslim

1.Oneness of God

2.Prophethood

3.The last day

and the uniterians around whom this discussion is circling DO NOT BELIVE in the prophethood of Muhammad(saa) which makes them infidels.

END OF DISCUSSION

IMPORTANT NOTE: If you do not do takfeer on those who are legally infidels,you are an infidel as well.

JazakAllah

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10 minutes ago, Al Amir said:

If the message of Islam is completely understood by a non-muslim,he is under obligation to accept it as quickly as possible0otherwise he is an infidel (kafir).

Do not forget brothers and sisters one must believe in three pillars to be counted as a muslim

1.Oneness of God

2.Prophethood

3.The last day

and the uniterians around whom this discussion is circling DO NOT BELIVE in the prophethood of Muhammad(saa) which makes them infidels.

END OF DISCUSSION

IMPORTANT NOTE: If you do not do takfeer on those who are legally infidels,you are an infidel as well.

JazakAllah

Is that really in Shi'ism? I thought it's only in Sunni hadiths? Allah bless you bro.

Salam.

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With all respect to Sistani and the rest, the Quran calls Christians Ahle-Kitab. These are the Unitarian Christians. As such, that is what we should call them.

Kafir has a very bad connotation in the Muslim culture but all it means is someone who is not a Muslim. So while we use it as a derogatory term, it really is not.

Unitarian Christians = Ahle-Kitab

Jews = Ahle-Kitab

Trinity Christians = Mushrik 

1 hour ago, Al Amir said:

IMPORTANT NOTE: If you do not do takfeer on those who are legally infidels,you are an infidel as well.

What a load of hogwash.

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9 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

With all respect to Sistani and the rest, the Quran calls Christians Ahle-Kitab. These are the Unitarian Christians. As such, that is what we should call them.

Kafir has a very bad connotation in the Muslim culture but all it means is someone who is not a Muslim. So while we use it as a derogatory term, it really is not.

Unitarian Christians = Ahle-Kitab

Jews = Ahle-Kitab

Trinity Christians = Mushrik 

What a load of hogwash.

Its what logic states if you do not do takfeer on infidels,you harbor some sort of sympathy with their religion which amounts to infidelity.We are Shi'i not Murji 

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54 minutes ago, Al Amir said:

Its what logic states if you do not do takfeer on infidels,you harbor some sort of sympathy with their religion which amounts to infidelity.We are Shi'i not Murji 

you have been hanging around salafis too much brother.

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4 hours ago, Al Amir said:

Its what logic states if you do not do takfeer on infidels,you harbor some sort of sympathy with their religion which amounts to infidelity.We are Shi'i not Murji 

I suggest you have a glass of water to relax, maybe a snickers even ?

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10 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

With all respect to Sistani and the rest, the Quran calls Christians Ahle-Kitab. These are the Unitarian Christians. As such, that is what we should call them.

Kafir has a very bad connotation in the Muslim culture but all it means is someone who is not a Muslim. So while we use it as a derogatory term, it really is not.

Unitarian Christians = Ahle-Kitab

Jews = Ahle-Kitab

Trinity Christians = Mushrik 

What a load of hogwash.

Ahlul Kitab does not mean non-kafir. I don't know where you got this from.

In Fiqh they call them Kitabi Kuffar. (Al-Kuffar al-Kitabiyeen). This is not me saying this, this is the ulama.

They reject the Holy Qur'an and our Prophet. They have disbelieved in the Ayahs of Allah [swt]. And the Jews go one step further by rejecting the Prophet Isa [as].

Once again, I don't know why people find this concerning.

Edited by The Batman
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1 hour ago, The Batman said:

Ahlul Kitab does not mean non-kafir. I don't know where you got this from.

In Fiqh they call them Kitabi Kuffar. (Al-Kuffar al-Kitabiyeen). This is not me saying this, this is the ulama.

They reject the Holy Qur'an and our Prophet. They have disbelieved in the Ayahs of Allah [swt]. And the Jews go one step further by rejecting the Prophet Isa [as].

Once again, I don't know why people find this concerning.

Kafir = any non-Muslim. But they are of different kinds of kafir so the listing is merely sub-categories.

I don't understand the fascination in calling other people kafir. Is it to make ourselves feel good?

Imam Ali said "man is either your brother in faith or brother in humanity". He didn't say, " man is your brother in faith or kafir".

 

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26 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Kafir = any non-Muslim. But they are of different kinds of kafir so the listing is merely sub-categories.

I don't understand the fascination in calling other people kafir. Is it to make ourselves feel good?

Imam Ali said "man is either your brother in faith or brother in humanity". He didn't say, " man is your brother in faith or kafir".

 

Of course there are categories.

There is Kitabi, non-Kitabi, Dhimmi, non-Dhimmi, and more.

There is no fascination with calling people kuffar, it is simply stating a fact. 

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1 hour ago, The Batman said:

Of course there are categories.

There is Kitabi, non-Kitabi, Dhimmi, non-Dhimmi, and more.

There is no fascination with calling people kuffar, it is simply stating a fact. 

Salam akhi,

I don't want to argue with you but I really don't think that in itself is the definition of "Kaffir". If someone is a jahil rejects the prophethood of Muhammed(SAWA) but believes in the oneness of God. Does that make him a kafir if he is ignorant in regards to knowing about the prophet Muhammed(SAW)? 

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team

Quote

Salaamun  Alaykum

Please find below a question on the definition of  kaffir to which the reply was
kindly provided by Ma'alim Liyakatali.

Jazakallah

With Duas and Salaams

Maqbul Rahim
Acting Moderator for ABDG-A
...........................................................................
Question: I am a muslimah  in taqlid of of Agha Seestani.

Q. I was having a discussion with a Sunni sister yesterday and I told her 
the Shia Ithna Asheri definition of a "kaafir".. such like.. a kaafir's sweat is
najis for us .. a kaafir's cooked food is najis for us. She was pretty apalled 
at my words.. and told me that since Allah S.W.T. Has Created us all clean and 
pure, how is it possible that we can be so unclean to one another, based on our 
beliefs,  whatever they may be. I told her the treatment we extend to kaafirs is
synonymous with the treatment we extend towards dogs... but I know that I was 
limited in my knowledge to adequately satisfy her..and that's why I need help to 
explain this issue to her.. and please, if I fell short when explaining to her, 
do tell me.
...........................................................................

Answer:

Salaamun Alaykum

Before I answer the question, I believe it is essential to understand how we
define a kafir:

A kafir is, first of all, according to the the Qur'an, one who is ungrateful
to the blessings showered by Allah, the Almighty.
This sense of being ungrateful is connected to the state of turning away
(i.e. disbelieving in God) despite clear guidance coming from Allah. The
guidance is not only in the form of the Prophets, Imams and Qur'an but also
inner voices (waridat), the ability to distinguish good from evil and also
outer ayat of Allah. Despite Allah talking to a person through these
different modes, he/she chooses to turn away. 

A kafir then is one who does not show gratitude in his/her conduct despite
God's benevolence. This act of kufr is often accompanied by haughtiness and
istghna' (free from God)

In several verses, the Qur'an warns them of the consequences of their evil
acts and even curses them for it. e.g. (2:6). Verse 2:221 asks us not to
marry them until they believe.

The definition of a kafir is not a Shi'a Ithna-asheri definition (as
mentioned by you in the question) rather it is a Qur'anic definition. Please
mention this to your sunni friend.

It is important to remember that although the Qur'an severly condemns them
for their kufr, at no time does it ask us to deal with them in an inhumane
way. i.e., our duty is to try to guide them not to treat them as lesser
beings. Hence your comparison between a kafir and a dog was not appropriate
at all. 

Please remember Allah has bestowed dignity to all human beings and only he
can take away that dignity, not us.

The prohibition on eating a kafir's food has nothing to do with his/her
physical state of uncleanliness. Rather, it is connected with his/her
spiritual state. What we eat makes a difference to our own spiritual state
and our character formation. Therefore, we are required to eat pure food for
the sake of the well being of our own spiritual states. Purity in the
spiritual realm is dependent on consuming that which is spiritually pure. By
the way, this is not unique to Islam - Yogis, some Hindus share a similar
view. Therefore the najasat is connected to the spiritual state of a kafir.
There is no doubt that we still have to treat them humanely.
Talking about the cleanliness of a kafir is very misleading since people
assume it is connected to their physical state, I would therefore prefer
using the term spiritual well-being or spiritual state.

May Allah guide us all

Yours in Islam

Liyakatali

 

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2 hours ago, humanbeing101 said:

Salam akhi,

I don't want to argue with you but I really don't think that in itself is the definition of "Kaffir". If someone is a jahil rejects the prophethood of Muhammed(SAWA) but believes in the oneness of God. Does that make him a kafir if he is ignorant in regards to knowing about the prophet Muhammed(SAW)? 

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team

 

 

Such a person still has the rulings of kafirs applied to him (najasa if non-Ahlul Kitab) but he may not be considered a kafir on the Day of Judgement due to his ignorance.

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Just a thought,

do you think the Prophets and Imams called the Christians and Jews Kafirs? If Allah in the Quran says those who believe and people of the book then there is disbelievers (Kafirs). Three distinct categories. It would be wrong to begin muddling them together.

 

 

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Do not allow the inter religion dialogue to extend beyond its limits.Only the believers in all of the Holy Quran are Muslim.Additionally KAFIR is not an insult,it is just who they are and it is not meant to be an insult when we label non muslims with it.

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Doesn't 'Kafir' in Arabic literally translate to 'one who covers over/buries/hides something' ?

Originally used to refer to farmers or gardeners who plant seeds- in the 'disbeliever' context, more with reference to someone hiding the evident truth from themself, denying it.

The polytheists are also referred to separately from Kuffar in the Qur'an, if I'm not mistaken (do correct me please, if I am).

Does this suggest that a Kafir is more likely someone who has been blessed with knowledge/understanding and denies it anyways?

This may or may not be accurate for the Ahle Kitab -I'm no expert, so I'm not drawing any conclusions.

(Sometimes I feel like it's an accurate description for myself- when it comes to knowledge and Akhlaq I know, but don't practice)

 

Feels like understanding the word itself gives a sense of how appropriate it is to use though.

Edited by Hayy ibn Yaqzan
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2 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

I suppose Shias are catching this disease of labeling anyone and everyone kafir as if there is a great big reward for it.

Unless you are top of the notch A+ Muslim, leave the name-calling alone and concentrate on improving yourself.

couldnt have been said better

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5 hours ago, HayderM said:

Just a thought,

do you think the Prophets and Imams called the Christians and Jews Kafirs? If Allah in the Quran says those who believe and people of the book then there is disbelievers (Kafirs). Three distinct categories. It would be wrong to begin muddling them together.

 

 

Actually they did lol

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6 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

I suppose Shias are catching this disease of labeling anyone and everyone kafir as if there is a great big reward for it.

Unless you are top of the notch A+ Muslim, leave the name-calling alone and concentrate on improving yourself.

It's not a derogatory word. It's simply a fact. Would it be wrong to call the pagan Arabs mushriks? 

Fact is the Muslims should know what is a kafir and who is a kafir, because this affects their daily life in terms of eating food, najasa, and more.

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53 minutes ago, The Batman said:

It's not a derogatory word. It's simply a fact. Would it be wrong to call the pagan Arabs mushriks? 

Fact is the Muslims should know what is a kafir and who is a kafir, because this affects their daily life in terms of eating food, najasa, and more.

Don't most marajae allow eating at Jews' houses and may be even at Christian houses.

Kafir originally was not a derogatory word but it has become as such these days.

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10 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Don't most marajae allow eating at Jews' houses and may be even at Christian houses.

Kafir originally was not a derogatory word but it has become as such these days.

Scholars allow eating even at Hindu houses. What is not allowed is eating the food which has become najis by the hands of Hindus or in other ways.

Christians and Jews are tahir (according to Sistani at least) - but their meats that they slaughter are not halal. So you cannot buy a chicken and eat it from a shop which does not use chickens slaughtered by Muslims.

I don't like people using kafir as a derogatory term, sounds a bit arrogant.

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35 minutes ago, The Batman said:

Scholars allow eating even at Hindu houses. What is not allowed is eating the food which has become najis by the hands of Hindus or in other ways.

Christians and Jews are tahir (according to Sistani at least) - but their meats that they slaughter are not halal. So you cannot buy a chicken and eat it from a shop which does not use chickens slaughtered by Muslims.

I don't like people using kafir as a derogatory term, sounds a bit arrogant.

Alhumdulillah we are on the same page.

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According to the Holy Quran, any one who believes in one God and the last day, and does good deeds, they will have nothing to fear on the last day. Surah Baqrah, ayah 62

Saheeh International (for Sunni brothers): http://quran.com/2/62

Ahmed Ali for us Shia folks:

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالنَّصَارَىٰ وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

Surely the believers and the Jews, Nazareanes and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day, and whosoever does right, shall have his reward with his Lord and will neither have fear nor regret. (2:62)

Edited by Shabbar_Abidi
Missspeled baqrah
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