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In the Name of God بسم الله

Prophet Muhammad Getting Bewitched??

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I am born into a Sunni family. However, I am one of those people of this sect who do not consider everything in Bukhari to be 100% authentic. Bukhari can contain mistakes and after reading some narrations in it, it becomes pretty obvious that someone deliberately injected fabricated narrations in Bukhari to give opportunity to the Kuffars to attack Islam. Not surprisingly, Kuffars availed this opportunity to attack Islam. As a result of this, Kuffars like Jews and Christians use narrations of Bukhari to slander and attack the character of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W). One of the narrations found in bukhari is about Prophet Muhammad getting bewitched. I have some questions about this story. READ CAREFULLY MY QUESTIONS!!

 

Question # 1) What is the Shia view of this story of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) getting bewitched? Do mainstream shias accept this story or reject it?

Question # 2) On what basis do you Shias accept or reject this story?

Question # 3) If you reject this story, then what about chain of narrators about whom Sunni Scholars say that they are authentic?

 

Kindly answer these questions. I may continue discussion after replies.


Thanks.

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Salaam brother @Yousuf,

No doubt you are referring to this narration or one similar to it:

Narrated Aisha:
Magic was worked on Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not (Sufyan said: That is the hardest kind of magic as it has such an effect). Then one day he said, "O `Aisha do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other. What is wrong with this man?' The latter replied the is under the effect of magic The first one asked, Who has worked magic on him?' The other replied Labid bin Al-A'sam, a man from Bani Zuraiq who was an ally of the Jews and was a hypocrite.' The first one asked, What material did he use)?' The other replied, 'A comb and the hair stuck to it.' The first one asked, 'Where (is that)?' The other replied. 'In a skin of pollen of a male date palm tree kept under a stone in the well of Dharwan' '' So the Prophet (ﷺ) went to that well and took out those things and said "That was the well which was shown to me (in a dream) Its water looked like the infusion of Henna leaves and its date-palm trees looked like the heads of devils." The Prophet (ﷺ) added, "Then that thing was taken out' I said (to the Prophet (ﷺ) ) "Why do you not treat yourself with Nashra?" He said, "Allah has cured me; I dislike to let evil spread among my people."
Sahih al-Bukhari
http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/76/79

 

1) We absolutely DO NOT accept that the Prophet can, could or ever was bewitched.

2) Reject this story based on:

[Shakir 53:2] Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray;
[Shakir 53:3] Nor does he speak out of desire.
[Shakir 53:4] It is naught but revelation that is revealed,
[Shakir 53:5] The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him,
[Shakir 53:6] The Lord of Strength; so he attained completion,

3) We do not consider them authentic.

Hope this helps.

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2 hours ago, Yousuf said:

Question # 1) What is the Shia view of this story of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) getting bewitched? Do mainstream shias accept this story or reject it?

Question # 2) On what basis do you Shias accept or reject this story?

Question # 3) If you reject this story, then what about chain of narrators about whom Sunni Scholars say that they are authentic?

1. We reject it.

2. It goes against the Holy Quran.

3. A narration has two things:

  • Matn: What is the gist of the Hadith, which should agree with the Holy Quran.
  • Sanad: The chain of narrators.

Matn takes precedent over Sanad.

Now, a question for you. Why did the first three Caliph burned their books of Hadiths and issued commands for everyone to do so?

Why didn't they preserve the Hadiths?

 

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On 8/3/2016 at 4:03 PM, Yousuf said:

Question # 1) What is the Shia view of this story of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) getting bewitched? Do mainstream shias accept this story or reject it?

Question # 2) On what basis do you Shias accept or reject this story?

Question # 3) If you reject this story, then what about chain of narrators about whom Sunni Scholars say that they are authentic?

Kindly answer these questions. I may continue discussion after replies.

Thanks.

1. We believe the accusation that Muhammed s.a.w was bewitched by withcraft is not only absurd, but destroys the very authenticity and reliability of Muhammed s.a.w, and plays into the hands of the disbelievers who had accused him of being a man, bewitched:

Noble Quran: "We know best why it is they listen, when they listen to thee; and when they meet in private conference, behold, the wicked say, "Ye follow none other than a man bewitched!"

Furthermore, the Quran absolutely rebukes the notion that Muhammed s.a.w can be possessed or bewitched: "And (O people!) your companion is not one possessed;"

Ofcourse, our sunni brothers and sisters have to try to thus, reconcile the hadith with the Quran and logic. They say that Muhammed s.a.w was bewitched by Allah azwj protected the revelation and helped him from erring. We say, would being bewitched and possessed not make the disbelievers say 'you see we were right, he is a man who can be affected my magic' ? Would Allah azwj not want to protect his Prophet s.a.w from that ? 

2. Part of the reason we reject it i detailed above, furthermore it is not present in our books. Secondly, we regard the Prophet s.a.w as one who can never be possessed or bewitched. He is protected by Allah azwj.

3. Shia's and Sunni's have divergent books of ahadith, and they grade differently based on the chain of narrators they consider reliable. Therefore, we do not consider the chains authentic and take issue with one, several, or all of the members in the chain [have not checked].

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1 hour ago, Qa'im said:

There are a few stories about the Holy Prophet (pbuh) that are only narrated by `A'isha. Both the "bewitching" hadith and the "suicide" hadith come through `A'isha. No other wife, relative, or companion of the Prophet has said these things, and they contradict the Quran. We do not see `A'isha as a reliable source. She has a history of lying (Surat al-Tahreem), disobeying the Prophet, jealousy, and insurrection against Imam `Ali (as).

What is the our view of the revelations of Surah al-Falaq and an-Nas? Were they revealed after a specific event?

Edited by Shaykh Patience101
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@shiaman14 @BornShia

I found this in Tafsir al-Mizan (Surah Falaq chapter). The author says that the magician's attack indeed occurred (after which Surah al-Falaq and an-Nas were revealed), but it had physical effects and no mental ones.

"Abd ibn Hamid has narrated from Zaid ibn Aslam, who said: "Someone among the Jews casted a spell on the Prophet (s.a.w.) who complained (of being unwell) and was thus visited by Gabriel who revealed upon him, the last two chapters of the Qur'an (Nasand Falaq), and he (Gabriel) said: 'Indeed, someone from the Jews has cast a spell on you and it (the charm) is in so-and-so well'. So the Messenger sent 'Ali (a.s) who brought that charm and ordered him to untie the knot while reciting (the verses of Nas andFalaq) until the Prophet (s.a.w.) regained his wellbeing. (ad-Durru'l Manthur)

The author says: A similar tradition is found in Tibb al-A'imma (medicine of the Imams) attributed to Muhammad bin Sanan from al-Mufadhal from as-Sadiq (a.s) and many traditions from the Ahlul Sunnah with slight variations. More than one of these traditions mention that the Messenger sent (to get the charm from the well) 'Ali (as) together with Ammar bin Yassir and Zubair.

The contents of such traditions have confused some people because they say that the Messenger (s.a.w.) cannot be affected by magic so how did he succumb to the spell? But Allah has said:

"Or (Why) has not a treasure been bestowed on him, or why has he (not) a garden for enjoyment?" The wicked say: "Ye follow none other than a man bewitched. See what kinds of comparisons they make for thee! But they have gone astray, and never a way will they be able to find!" (25:8-9)

In these verses, they (the disbelievers) refer to the Prophet as being bewitched and insane whose mind was corrupted by the effect of magic. The fact is that the Messenger was unwell bodily (and not mentally) due to the effect of magic. This is an example to show the absence of proofs that He (the Prophet) was immune from witchcraft and magic."

From the Surah Nas chapter:

"Abu Khadija has narrated from as-Sadiq (a.s) that he said: "Jibrael came to the Messenger (s.a.w.) when he was not feeling well; and he greeted him with al-Mu'awwidhatayn (The two Chapters of refuge, chapters 113 and 114). Jibrael said: 'In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. May Allah cure you of every illness that harms you; take it to be in bliss.' He recited Qul audhubi Rabbi n-nas until the end.""

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3 hours ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

@shiaman14 @BornShia

I found this in Tafsir al-Mizan (Surah Falaq chapter). The author says that the magician's attack indeed occurred (after which Surah al-Falaq and an-Nas were revealed), but it had physical effects and no mental ones.

Interesting. This is what I found:

Occasion of Revelation

On the occasion of revelation of this Surah, there are some narrations cited in most of the commentary books to the effect that the holy Prophet (S) was affected by some magic incantations, practiced by a few Jews, and became sick. Gabriel came down and indicated the place of the magic paraphernalia, which were hidden at the bottom of a well, by the Jews. They were taken out of the well and then, these verses were recited and the physical condition of the Prophet (S) improved.

But, the late Tabarsi and some other researchers reject these kind of narrations whose reference is limited to only Ibn-i-Abbas and 'Ayishah, because:

Firstly, the Surah is popularly known as Meccan, and the tone of the verses are also similar to Meccan Suras, while the problems which the holy Prophet (S) had, with the Jews, occured mostly in Medina, which is, itself, a testimony that these kinds of narrations are not correct.

Secondly, if the holy Prophet (S) could, so easily, be affected by the witchcraft of sorcerers, so much so, that he became sick and stayed in bed, it would have, also, been easy to stop him from reaching his great goal. Surely the Providence, Who had sent him for such a great and important mission, the Prophecy, protected him against the witchcraft of sorcerers.

Thirdly, if sorcery is to have had an effect on the body of the holy Prophet (S), then, people might imagine that witchcraft could affect his holy soul, too, and his thoughts would be subject to the witchcraft of sorcerers, so, this idea would destroy the principle of confidence in the holy Prophet (S).

The Holy Qur'an opposes the idea that the Prophet (S) was bewitched:

"Or (why) has not a treasure been bestowed on him, or why has he (not) a garden for enjoyment? The wicked say: 'Ye follow none other than a man bewitched'”.
“See what kind of comparisons they make for thee! But they have gone astray, and never a way will they he able to find!”1.

Here,

'bewitched',

whether mentally or bodily, is a witness to our objective point. However, with these very doubtful narrations, in regard to understanding the meaning of the verses, the sanctity of the position of the Prophet (S) cannot be questioned.

https://www.al-islam.org/enlightening-commentary-light-holy-quran-vol-20/surah-falaq-chapter-113

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On 8/7/2016 at 4:43 AM, Shaykh Patience101 said:

I found this in Tafsir al-Mizan (Surah Falaq chapter). The author says that the magician's attack indeed occurred (after which Surah al-Falaq and an-Nas were revealed), but it had physical effects and no mental ones.

I don't know if you can read Arabic or not. The Lord of Dawn (Surah Falaq) is about To-Do list. In the olden days, people used to carry a string in their pockets. Every morning when they woke up, they used to make a To-Do list. For every errand (to-do) they used to tie a knot in the string, once the task was accomplished, they used to undo the knot, thus remaining knots for remaining tasks.

But the Surah is about those who used to plot evil, and tie evil (To-Do) knots, first thing in the morning for their tasks. And, then they used to blow on these knots. Nothing to do with magic.

Surah al-Nas (which is pronounced an-Nas) is about Mankind and Satan. The only Power given to Satan is "Power of Whisper (Suggestion)" Our hearts suggesting to us, Jihad al-Nafs. Other people and jinn suggesting to us. The media suggesting to us. The German War Machine suggesting to us. Nothing to do with magic.

Where do you learn your Shia religion from?

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On 8/4/2016 at 5:14 AM, Tawheed313 said:

Furthermore, the Quran absolutely rebukes the notion that Muhammed s.a.w can be possessed or bewitched: "And (O people!) your companion is not one possessed;"

Ofcourse, our sunni brothers and sisters have to try to thus, reconcile the hadith with the Quran and logic. They say that Muhammed s.a.w was bewitched by Allah azwj protected the revelation and helped him from erring. We say, would being bewitched and possessed not make the disbelievers say 'you see we were right, he is a man who can be affected my magic' ? Would Allah azwj not want to protect his Prophet s.a.w from that ? 

Btw the arabic word in above ayah is "Majnoon" and which is why it has been mostly translated as 'mad'. And your companion is not [at all] mad.

How magic effects

Quran Surah Taha (66-69):

66. He [Musa] said: "Nay, throw you (first)!" Then behold, their ropes and their sticks, by their magic, appeared to him (Musa) as though they moved fast.

67. So Musa conceived a fear in himself.

68. We (Allah) said: "Fear not! Surely, you will have the upper hand.

69. "And throw that which is in your right hand! It will swallow up that which they have made. That which they have made is only a magician's trick, and the magician will never be successful, no matter whatever amount (of skill) he may attain."

So when the wizards of Pharaoh threw their ropes and sticks under magic, they appeared as serpents to Musa (as) and others and "he conceived a fear in himself"... so their magic worked on Musa that he not only saw them moving as serpents but he had developed this fear in his mind ( Fear is a feeling induced by perceived danger or threat that occurs in certain types of organisms, which causes a change in metabolic and organ function) untill Allah said "Fear not".

On 8/4/2016 at 5:14 AM, Tawheed313 said:

1. We believe the accusation that Muhammed s.a.w was bewitched by withcraft is not only absurd, but destroys the very authenticity and reliability of Muhammed s.a.w, and plays into the hands of the disbelievers who had accused him of being a man, bewitched:

Noble Quran: "We know best why it is they listen, when they listen to thee; and when they meet in private conference, behold, the wicked say, "Ye follow none other than a man bewitched!"several, or all of the members in the chain [have not checked].

17:47 We are Best Aware of what they wish to hear when they give ear to thee and when they take secret counsel, when the evil-doers say: Ye follow but a man bewitched.

The explanation of the above ayah is that they used listen carefully and knew very well that they were listening to the truth from Allah (i.e. Quran) butttttttt when they met each other in private they would say... it is magic or the man is bewicthed or it is poetry (there is a whole account how munifiqeen or kuffars met each other after listening secretly to the revelation being recited inside house and while returning met each other accidentally and were embarrassed seeing each other but soon they met again accidentally doing the same thing).

36:69 And We have not taught him (Muhammad SAW) poetry, nor is it meet for him. This is only a Reminder and a plain Quran.

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32 minutes ago, Bukhari8k said:

Btw the arabic word in above ayah is "Majnoon" and which is why it has been mostly translated as 'mad'. And your companion is not [at all] mad.

How magic effects

Quran Surah Taha (66-69):

66. He [Musa] said: "Nay, throw you (first)!" Then behold, their ropes and their sticks, by their magic, appeared to him (Musa) as though they moved fast.

67. So Musa conceived a fear in himself.

68. We (Allah) said: "Fear not! Surely, you will have the upper hand.

69. "And throw that which is in your right hand! It will swallow up that which they have made. That which they have made is only a magician's trick, and the magician will never be successful, no matter whatever amount (of skill) he may attain."

So when the wizards of Pharaoh threw their ropes and sticks under magic, they appeared as serpents to Musa (as) and others and "he conceived a fear in himself"... so their magic worked on Musa that he not only saw them moving as serpents but he had developed this fear in his mind ( Fear is a feeling induced by perceived danger or threat that occurs in certain types of organisms, which causes a change in metabolic and organ function) untill Allah said "Fear not".

17:47 We are Best Aware of what they wish to hear when they give ear to thee and when they take secret counsel, when the evil-doers say: Ye follow but a man bewitched.

The explanation of the above ayah is that they used listen carefully and knew very well that they were listening to the truth from Allah (i.e. Quran) butttttttt when they met each other in private they would say... it is magic or the man is bewicthed or it is poetry (there is a whole account how munifiqeen or kuffars met each other after listening secretly to the revelation being recited inside house and while returning met each other accidentally and were embarrassed seeing each other but soon they met again accidentally doing the same thing).

36:69 And We have not taught him (Muhammad SAW) poetry, nor is it meet for him. This is only a Reminder and a plain Quran.

I am failing to understand your post. Are you saying the Prophet was bewitched?

There is no denying there is magic. So Musa fearing magic is not the same as Musa being bewitched by it.

Along the same lines, the fact that the kuffar were saying the Prophet was bewitched means nothing...other than to you it seems.

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48 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

I am failing to understand your post. Are you saying the Prophet was bewitched?

There is no denying there is magic. So Musa fearing magic is not the same as Musa being bewitched by it.

Along the same lines, the fact that the kuffar were saying the Prophet was bewitched means nothing...other than to you it seems.

Musa was not fearing magic... he was fearing from what he saw moving as serpents because of their magic and this was the effect of their magic that the ropes and staves appeared to others as serpents. So did their magic work? yes.

 by their magic, appeared to him (Musa) as though they moved fast.

67. So Musa conceived a fear in himself.

 

You are pointing towards the quranic ayah regarding kuffar and their reaction to quran. The meaning of the verse is clear that they knew Quran was the truth from Allah and they used to give ear ( We are Best Aware of what they wish to hear when they give ear to thee) but when they met each other in private (and when they take secret counsel ) they gave excuses because in their hearts is a disease.

We have a story relevant to the above:

(Muhammad bin Ishaq mentioned that Az-Zuhri said that Abu Jahl, Abu Sufyan Sakhr bin Harb and Al-Akhnas bin Shurayq once came to listen to the Prophet reciting the Qur'an at night, but these three men were not aware of the presence of each other. So they listened to the Prophet's recitation until the morning, and then left. They met each other on their way back and each one of them asked the others, "What brought you'' So they mentioned to each other the reason why they came. They vowed not to repeat this incident so that the young men of Quraysh would not hear of what they did and imitate them. On the second night, each one of the three came back thinking that the other two would not come because of the vows they made to each other. In the morning, they again met each other on their way back and criticized each other, vowing not to repeat what they did. On the third night, they again went to listen to the Prophet and in the morning they again vowed not to repeat this incident. During that day, Al-Akhnas bin Shurayq took his staff and went to Abu Sufyan bin Harb in his house saying, "O Abu Hanzalah! What is your opinion concerning what you heard from Muhammad.'' Abu Sufyan said, "O Abu Tha`labah! By Allah, I have heard some things that I recognize and know their implications. I also heard some things whose meaning and implications were unknown to me.'' Al-Akhnas said, "And I the same, by He Whom you swore by!'' Al-Akhnas left Abu Sufyan and went to Abu Jahl and asked him, "O Abu Al-Hakam! What is your opinion about what you heard from Muhammad. '' Abu Jahl said, "We competed with Bani `Abd Manaf (the Prophet's subtribe) and so we fed as they fed and gave away as they gave away. So, when we were neck and neck with them, just as two horses in a race, they said, `There is a Prophet from among us, to whom revelation from the heaven comes.' So how can we ever beat them at that By Allah we will never believe in him or accept what he says.' This is when Al-Akhnas left Abu Jahl and went away.'')

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43 minutes ago, Bukhari8k said:

Musa was not fearing magic... he was fearing from what he saw moving as serpents because of their magic and this was the effect of their magic that the ropes and staves appeared to others as serpents. So did their magic work? yes.

 by their magic, appeared to him (Musa) as though they moved fast.

67. So Musa conceived a fear in himself.

So Musa fearing magic is not the same as Musa being bewitched. The narration in Bukhari from Hz Aisha goes as far stating that the Prophet imagined having sexual relations with all his wives in the same night, such was the impact of magic on him.

Simple question brother - was the Prophet bewitched?

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45 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

So Musa fearing magic is not the same as Musa being bewitched. The narration in Bukhari from Hz Aisha goes as far stating that the Prophet imagined having sexual relations with all his wives in the same night, such was the impact of magic on him.

Simple question brother - was the Prophet bewitched?

i guess its time for you to let me know first if Musa (ra) was influenced by the effects of their magic or not?

 

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2 hours ago, Bukhari8k said:

i guess its time for you to let me know first if Musa (ra) was influenced by the effects of their magic or not?

Well, it depends on what you mean by 'influenced'? If you mean, Musa saw their magic and reacted to it - yes. But we can't say he was fearful of the ropes/snakes or if he fearful of being able to show better magic.

If you mean Musa was influenced by the magicians so much so that he thought he was a snake himself and start hissing at others and developed a taste for eating rats, then no Musa was not influenced by their magic.

You and Sunnis in general have painted yourselves in a corner:
The Quran is perfect and the Quran says "Your companion is not bewitched".
Bukhari is perfect and says the Prophet was bewitched.
Hz Aisha is perfect and says the Prophet was bewitched.

Although you claim to follow the Quran and the Prophet, it seems that you really follow Bukhari and Hz Aisha.

You are trying to save the argument by saying fearing magic is the same as being under the influence of magic. To give you an analogy, I fear drinking alcohol and me being under the influence of alcohol are completely different.

Perhaps third time is the charm -  was the Prophet bewitched?

Hint: abracadabra, hocus pocus

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17 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Well, it depends on what you mean by 'influenced'?

that their magic worked on Musa (as)... did not it?

17 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

If you mean, Musa saw their magic and reacted to it - yes. But we can't say he was fearful of the ropes/snakes or if he fearful of being able to show better magic.

Musa actually experienced their magic as something appeared to him which caused fear in him. So according to you, Musa was fearful of the magic and not actually the ropes/snakes moving fast... although it is clear that only after what he saw "as though they moved fast. So Musa conceived a fear in himself." 

(and btw prophets show miracles, not magic)

 

17 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

You and Sunnis in general have painted yourselves in a corner:
The Quran is perfect and the Quran says "Your companion is not bewitched".
Bukhari is perfect and says the Prophet was bewitched.
Hz Aisha is perfect and says the Prophet was bewitched.

وَمَا صَاحِبُكُمْ بِمَجْنُونٍ {22 

the arabic word in above ayah is "Majnoon" and which is why it is almost always translated as 'mad'. And your companion is not [at all] mad.

17 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Although you claim to follow the Quran and the Prophet, it seems that you really follow Bukhari and Hz Aisha.

You are trying to save the argument by saying fearing magic is the same as being under the influence of magic. To give you an analogy, I fear drinking alcohol and me being under the influence of alcohol are completely different.

btw i never said he feared magic.... did i? 

you fear drinking alcohol... what is that supposed to mean?

Musa was influenced by their magic as something strange appeared to him and its not just that he feared because magic was going to be demonstrated. His fear was a result of his experiencing magic. What do you think... can one say that the wizards bewitched his eyes or the people around?

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2 minutes ago, Bukhari8k said:

(and btw prophets show miracles, not magic)

that was sarcasm....but that's neither here nor there.

3 minutes ago, Bukhari8k said:

that their magic worked on Musa (as)... did not it?

Musa actually experienced their magic as something appeared to him which caused fear in him. So according to you, Musa was fearful of the magic and not actually the ropes/snakes moving fast... although it is clear that only after what he saw "as though they moved fast. So Musa conceived a fear in himself." 

Did Musa think of himself as a snake??? Did he believe he was bitten by snakes? Did he fear the ropes or the people who had powerful magic. There could be a number of reasons for Musa feeling fear but the point is feeling fearful of magic is not the same as being under the influence of magic.

11 minutes ago, Bukhari8k said:

وَمَا صَاحِبُكُمْ بِمَجْنُونٍ {22 

the arabic word in above ayah is "Majnoon" and which is why it is almost always translated as 'mad'. And your companion is not [at all] mad.

I agree with the literal translation of majnoon however several translators have said the following:

Arthur John Arberry:    Your companion is not possessed;
Hamid S. Aziz:    And your companion is not one possessed (or mad).
John Medows Rodwell:    And your compatriot is not one possessed by djinn;
[Al-Muntakhab]:    Nor is your companion the -Prophet Muhammad- possessed by an evil spirit,
Syed Vickar Ahamed:    And (O people!), your companion (the Prophet) is not one who is possessed;
Yusuf Ali:    And (O people!) your companion is not one possessed;
Yusuf Ali (org.):    And (O people!) your companion is not one possessed;

http://readquranonline.org/index/view/s/81/a/22

18 minutes ago, Bukhari8k said:

btw i never said he feared magic.... did i? 

you fear drinking alcohol... what is that supposed to mean?

Musa was influenced by their magic as something strange appeared to him and its not just that he feared because magic was going to be demonstrated. His fear was a result of his experiencing magic. What do you think... can one say that the wizards bewitched his eyes or the people around?

I fear the ramifications of alcohol.
Musa feared the ramifications of magic.

I am under the influence of alcohol.
Musa was under the influence of alcohol.

The first set of statements and the second set have completely different meanings.

Fourth time -  was the Prophet bewitched into thinking he had sexual relations with all his wives in the same night?

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2 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Did Musa think of himself as a snake??? (!?) Did he believe he was bitten by snakes? (!?) Did he fear the ropes or the people who had powerful magic. (No.) 

There could be a number of reasons for Musa feeling fear but the point is feeling fearful of magic is not the same as being under the influence of magic.

The reason is clear that the things appeared to be moving fast to Musa (as) and other people and looked like serpents to them. That is what caused fear or terror.

2 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

I agree with the literal translation of majnoon however several translators have said the following:

Arthur John Arberry:    Your companion is not possessed;
Hamid S. Aziz:    And your companion is not one possessed (or mad).
John Medows Rodwell:    And your compatriot is not one possessed by djinn;
[Al-Muntakhab]:    Nor is your companion the -Prophet Muhammad- possessed by an evil spirit,
Syed Vickar Ahamed:    And (O people!), your companion (the Prophet) is not one who is possessed;
Yusuf Ali:    And (O people!) your companion is not one possessed;

http://readquranonline.org/index/view/s/81/a/22

You are quoting some lesser known translations and some of those by non-Muslims. Only Yusuf Ali's translation is amongst the widely accepted ones but the fact is that the word Majnoon has been translated as mad (which is the natural meaning) by almost all the most renowned and accepted translations.

2 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

I fear the ramifications of alcohol.
Musa feared the ramifications of magic.

Musa (as) did not fear the ramifications because in such a case the fear would have been conceived before the show began or before experiencing something.

66. by their magic, appeared to him (Musa) as though they moved fast.

67. So Musa conceived a fear in himself.

and the following also does not indicate fear of ramifications.

21 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

If you mean, Musa saw their magic and reacted to it - yes.

 

2 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Fourth time -  was the Prophet bewitched into thinking he had sexual relations with all his wives in the same night?

i am surely going to reply the above in detail yet i did ask the following question in my previous post which will help me making a statement on the above matter that should be understandable to you or others:

3 hours ago, Bukhari8k said:

What do you think... can one say that the wizards bewitched his eyes or the people around?

What do you think... can one say that the wizards bewitched his (Moses') eyes or the people around?

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On 8/9/2016 at 8:56 PM, Bukhari8k said:

Btw the arabic word in above ayah is "Majnoon" and which is why it has been mostly translated as 'mad'. And your companion is not [at all] mad.

Manjoon doesn't mean, "Mad". The word, "Mad" has many meanings.

It means, "Crazy Person", which means a mentally deranged, demented person.

So, it means a "Possessed Person".

Edited by BornShia
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2 hours ago, Bukhari8k said:

What do you think... can one say that the wizards bewitched his (Moses') eyes or the people around?

One can't say that. The spell was cast on the rope and not on all the people around.

Fifth request -  was the Prophet bewitched into thinking he had sexual relations with all his wives in the same night?

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20 hours ago, Bukhari8k said:

What do you think... can one say that the wizards bewitched his (Moses') eyes or the people around?

 

17 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

One can't say that. The spell was cast on the rope and not on all the people around.

 
Al-Quran 7:115  قَالَ أَلْقُوا ۖ فَلَمَّا أَلْقَوْا سَحَرُوا أَعْيُنَ النَّاسِ وَاسْتَرْهَبُوهُمْ وَجَاءُوا بِسِحْرٍ عَظِيمٍ    
He (Musa) said, "Throw," and when they (wizards) threw, they bewitched the eyes of the people and struck terror into them, and they presented a great [feat of] magic.

Al-Quran 20:66-68. He [Musa] said: "Nay, throw you (first)!" Then behold, their ropes and their sticks, by their magic, appeared to him (Musa) as though they moved fast. So Musa conceived a fear in himself. We (Allah) said: "Fear not! Surely, you will have the upper hand.

+++

This effect on Musa (as) however by no means rendered his prophet-hood as something flawed neither such a thing renders the prophet-hood of Muhammad (saw) as flawed because such spells only effected their worldly matters in a certain way (like a disease) and did not at all affect their mission or propagation in any way.

It was difficult to find complete translations or tafseers in english from the shia side however i found that the author of Tafseer Furat quotes (while explaining Surah Falak) Ali (as) that prophet (saw) was bewitched by jews and he further says that recitation of the surah lifted the spell. The author also says this while explaining Surah Nas "(when) the prophet of Allah got bewitched, these two surahs (Al-Falak & An-Nas) were sent down on him. Allah ordered him to seek protection (from magic) through these (surahs)."

i hope this clarifies...

@GreatChineseFall @Fahad Sani @Qa'im @Tawheed313 @Shaykh Patience101

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36 minutes ago, Bukhari8k said:

It was difficult to find complete translations or tafseers in english from the shia side however i found that the author of Tafseer Furat quotes (while explaining Surah Falak) Ali (as) that prophet (saw) was bewitched by jews and he further says that recitation of the surah lifted the spell. The author also says this while explaining Surah Nas "(when) the prophet of Allah got bewitched, these two surahs (Al-Falak & An-Nas) were sent down on him. Allah ordered him to seek protection (from magic) through these (surahs)."

i hope this clarifies...

@GreatChineseFall @Fahad Sani @Qa'im @Tawheed313 @Shaykh Patience101

Not to hard to find:

https://www.al-islam.org/enlightening-commentary-light-holy-quran-vol-20/surah-falaq-chapter-113#occasion-revelation

38 minutes ago, Bukhari8k said:


Al-Quran 7:115  قَالَ أَلْقُوا ۖ فَلَمَّا أَلْقَوْا سَحَرُوا أَعْيُنَ النَّاسِ وَاسْتَرْهَبُوهُمْ وَجَاءُوا بِسِحْرٍ عَظِيمٍ    
He (Musa) said, "Throw," and when they (wizards) threw, they bewitched the eyes of the people and struck terror into them, and they presented a great [feat of] magic.

Al-Quran 20:66-68. He [Musa] said: "Nay, throw you (first)!" Then behold, their ropes and their sticks, by their magic, appeared to him (Musa) as though they moved fast. So Musa conceived a fear in himself. We (Allah) said: "Fear not! Surely, you will have the upper hand.

+++

This effect on Musa (as) however by no means rendered his prophet-hood as something flawed neither such a thing renders the prophet-hood of Muhammad (saw) as flawed because such spells only effected their worldly matters in a certain way (like a disease) and did not at all affect their mission or propagation in any way.

You do realize the Quran is talking of an optical illusion and nothing more, correct?

Isnt that completely different from a mental illusion - hypnosis or other magic - that alters a person's thoughts?

So you actually believe that the Prophet was put under a magic spell where he presumed he had sexual relations with all 9 wives in one night. I am curious as to how many Quran verses were revealed during this alleged state of hypnosis. It is amazing to me that Allah says He will protect the Prophet from people mischief but can't seem to even protect his beloved Prophet from a little bit of magic.

You really need to re-evaluate your deen and any of those you referenced to discuss this topic(if they believe the same). 

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21 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

You do realize the Quran is talking of an optical illusion and nothing more, correct?

 

On 8/11/2016 at 3:48 AM, shiaman14 said:

The spell was cast on the rope and not on all the people around.

and now Casting spell on the ropes and Optical illusion are same thing to you?

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46 minutes ago, Bukhari8k said:

 

and now Casting spell on the ropes and Optical illusion are same thing to you?

وَأَلْقِ مَا فِي يَمِينِكَ تَلْقَفْ مَا صَنَعُوا ۖ إِنَّمَا صَنَعُوا كَيْدُ سَاحِرٍ ۖ وَلَا يُفْلِحُ السَّاحِرُ حَيْثُ أَتَىٰ

Throw down what is in your right hand, and it will swallow what they have conjured. What they have conjured is only a magician’s trick, and the magician does not fare well wherever he may show up.’ (20:69)

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1 hour ago, Bukhari8k said:

 

and now Casting spell on the ropes and Optical illusion are same thing to you?

you actually think the magicians changed the ropes into snakes???? As brother @Ali_Hussain pointed out, the Quran says it was a magician's trick aka optical illusion.

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3 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

وَأَلْقِ مَا فِي يَمِينِكَ تَلْقَفْ مَا صَنَعُوا ۖ إِنَّمَا صَنَعُوا كَيْدُ سَاحِرٍ ۖ وَلَا يُفْلِحُ السَّاحِرُ حَيْثُ أَتَىٰ

Throw down what is in your right hand, and it will swallow what they have conjured. What they have conjured is only a magician’s trick (also translated as plan), and the magician does not fare well wherever he may show up.’ (20:69)

صَنَعُو conjured / also means produce

كَيْدُ machination / a plot or scheme. (20:60 So Pharaoh went away, put together his plan (كَيْدُ), and then came [to Moses]).

conjuredcause (a spirit or ghost) to appear by means of a magic ritual.

Trick: a cunning act or scheme intended to deceive or outwit someone.
2. a skilful act performed for entertainment or amusement.
3. a clever or particular way of doing something.

4. liable to fail; defective.

+++++++++++++++++

Let me explain why was their act of sorcery, where on one end called magic, also has described as an artifice or a trick and an untrue thing. Because magic can never actually turn sticks or ropes or stones into living creatures. Because that would otherwise mean that magicians can give life to dead things.... but nobody says or believes that. Did i ever hinted that the serpents were real? No. But what i say is that the magic was real and that is why Quran does not say that their magic was not like a true magic or it was somehow less than "the magic"  but it says بِسِحْرٍ عَظِيمٍ.

What they conjured did work on people's vision (even on a prophet's vision) سَحَرُوا أَعْيُنَ النَّاسِ who were seeing what was not actually there i.e. serpents moving fast and Quran describes that as a great [feat of] magic.

Quran says 7:115  قَالَ أَلْقُوا ۖ فَلَمَّا أَلْقَوْا سَحَرُوا أَعْيُنَ النَّاسِ وَاسْتَرْهَبُوهُمْ وَجَاءُوا بِسِحْرٍ عَظِيمٍ    
He (Musa) said, "Throw," and when they (wizards) threw, they bewitched the eyes of the people and struck terror into them, and they presented a great [feat of] magic.

Ibn Kathir records that the timing (morning) and the place (a flat surface) were chosen by Musa (as) during his conversation with Pharaoh, whereas illusionists like david blain or copperfield, who are not true wizards, would always perform their tricks in a controlled setting of their own.

@shiaman14  you said they Cast spell on the ropes? what did you mean by that?

Edited by Bukhari8k
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26 minutes ago, Bukhari8k said:

  you said they Cast spell on the ropes? what did you mean by that?

they made ropes look like snakes.

So let's say they bewitched everyone's eyes including Musa's. Are you comparing them 'bewitching' eyes to actually altering someone's mind? 

Doesn't Allah promise to protect Prophet Muhammad from the mischief of people? He didnt make such a promise for Musa.

No matter how many excuses or different ways to try to present this, at the end of the day you believe Prophet Muhammad's mind was put under magic to where he thought he had sex with all his wives in one night. 

I am guessing he was under bewitchment when he married a few of those wives probably the ones alluded to in Surah Tahrim.

Caliph Umar did call him delusional or delirious so perhaps the Prophet was under bewitchment when he asked Caliph Abu Bakr to lead prayers.

All of the Prophet's actions are up for grabs now.

Edited by shiaman14
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16 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

they made ropes look like snakes.

So let's say they bewitched everyone's eyes including Musa's. Are you comparing them 'bewitching' eyes to actually altering someone's mind? 

Ok agreed... but how did they do that? you just said that by casting spell on them.

why not? if it can be eyes, it can be mind or just any other part of the body.

25 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Doesn't Allah promise to protect Prophet Muhammad from the mischief of people? He didnt make such a promise for Musa.

By saying that you seem to agree that the mischief or the magic of the wizards worked on Musa (as) however you insist that Muhammad (saw) because Allah promised him was protected against all such things.

O Messenger, announce that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, and if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people.(5:67) 

There is a background of this incident that took place in Madinah and as usual jews were involved in trying to kill him. Anyhow, in above ayah, Allah (swt) tells Muhammad (saw) to propagate his deen and convey his message without fear that people will be able to stop him from coveying Allah's message.

what do you reckon why Allah chose a particular time to take the responsibility of protecting his prophet while our prophet (saw) had already sustained many injuries while propagating His religion? Was not he a prophet when he invited people and suffered pain at their hands and had to migrate to Madinah?

1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Caliph Umar did call him delusional or delirious so perhaps the Prophet was under bewitchment when he asked Caliph Abu Bakr to lead prayers.

Can you just present any authentic narration that literally tells that it was Umar (as) had said so? because i am getting bored at these repeated and false accusations.

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1 hour ago, Bukhari8k said:

Ok agreed... but how did they do that? you just said that by casting spell on them.

why not? if it can be eyes, it can be mind or just any other part of the body.

By saying that you seem to agree that the mischief or the magic of the wizards worked on Musa (as) however you insist that Muhammad (saw) because Allah promised him was protected against all such things.

I said "let's say" which usually means being hypothetical.

It is obvious that their trick or magic worked but that is far from Musa being cast under a spell or being bewitched. Do I need to present videos of optical illusions to show what they are and seeing one does not mean one is under a spell.

1 hour ago, Bukhari8k said:

O Messenger, announce that which has been revealed to you from your Lord, and if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people.(5:67) 

There is a background of this incident that took place in Madinah and as usual jews were involved in trying to kill him. Anyhow, in above ayah, Allah (swt) tells Muhammad (saw) to propagate his deen and convey his message without fear that people will be able to stop him from coveying Allah's message.

what do you reckon why Allah chose a particular time to take the responsibility of protecting his prophet while our prophet (saw) had already sustained many injuries while propagating His religion? Was not he a prophet when he invited people and suffered pain at their hands and had to migrate to Madinah?

Hmmm, so you are saying Allah was not protecting the Prophet before this ayah which is in the surah to be revealed? 

1 hour ago, Bukhari8k said:

Can you just present any authentic narration that literally tells that it was Umar (as) had said so? because i am getting bored at these repeated and false accusations.

we digress but you can check these:

Narrated Sa`id bin Jubair:
that he heard Ibn `Abbas saying, "Thursday! And you know not what Thursday is? After that Ibn `Abbas wept till the stones on the ground were soaked with his tears. On that I asked Ibn `Abbas, "What is (about) Thursday?" He said, "When the condition (i.e. health) of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) deteriorated, he said, 'Bring me a bone of scapula, so that I may write something for you after which you will never go astray.'The people differed in their opinions although it was improper to differ in front of a prophet, They said, 'What is wrong with him? Do you think he is delirious? Ask him (to understand). The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, 'Leave me as I am in a better state than what you are asking me to do.' Then the Prophet (ﷺ) ordered them to do three things saying, 'Turn out all the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, show respect to all foreign delegates by giving them gifts as I used to do.' " The sub-narrator added, "The third order was something beneficial which either Ibn `Abbas did not mention or he mentioned but I forgot.'
Sahih al-Bukhari
Book 58, Hadith 10

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was `Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." `Umar said, "The Prophet (ﷺ) is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet (ﷺ) may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as `Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn `Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."
Sahih al-Bukhari
Book 75, Hadith 30

famous book on Caliph Umar called Al-Farooq by Shibli Numani 

 

Hajjar.png

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1 hour ago, Bukhari8k said:

Can you just present any authentic narration that literally tells that it was Umar (as) had said so? because i am getting bored at these repeated and false accusations.

To be honest, I am bored with your vain attempts to show the Prophet as being bewitched. Why is the honor of Bukhari and Hz Aisha more important to you than the honor of the Prophet.

I have only been indulging you to see what extent you Sunnis are willing to dishonor the Prophet to appease Bukhari and Hz Aisha.

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On 8/8/2016 at 1:22 PM, BornShia said:

Where do you learn your Shia religion from?

From my scholars, and more importantly, the ayat and the hadith that they provide. Not from what some stranger online tells me about "to-do lists."

If you believe that Surah Falaq refers to people making "to-do lists," provide a reference proving that this is so.

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9 minutes ago, Shaykh Patience101 said:

If you believe that Surah Falaq refers to people making "to-do lists," provide a reference proving that this is so.

It is a an evil to-do list which they made the very first thing when they get up in the morning, thus Surah - Lord of Dawn.

And, being fearful evil and envious people, then they used to recite some hocus pocus and blow on the string on the knot itself.

These were some jealous envious people who had no power but planned evil first thing in the morning when they got up.

These people are still with us. Most politicians and those greedy for wealth are in this category too. This Surah is for all times.

 

Quote

 

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak. From the evil of that which He created. And from the evil of darkness when it settles. And from the evil of the blowers in knots. And from the evil of an envier when he envies."

 

 

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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Hmmm, so you are saying Allah was not protecting the Prophet before this ayah 5:67 which is in the surah to be revealed? 

So, according to you the Prophet arranged the verses within the chapter. Was the Prophet trying to hide the Wilayat of Imam Ali?

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55 minutes ago, BornShia said:

So, according to you the Prophet arranged the verses within the chapter. Was the Prophet trying to hide the Wilayat of Imam Ali?

Start a different thread in this topic.

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