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In the Name of God بسم الله

Knowing which religion is true thru history?

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I have come to the conclusion that studying history will only lead you into making conclusions based on probablities. If it is true that all signs and miracles which we Christians today have as proof for our religion the Muslims have them too then it is a matter of deciding which of the religions orders only goodness since both believe God only orders goodness.

Do you find a muslim man who is sinfree according to Islam and makes 10 millons per year and gives away almost 80% of that to charity as a wonderful man? Or du you find a Christian man who is a sinner according to Christianity but equally pious as the muslim and makes 10 millions per year  and gives away almost 80% of that to charity as a wonderful man?

God bless you and thank you for reading

 

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3 hours ago, Loveall said:

 

Do you find a muslim man who is sinfree according to Islam and makes 10 millons per year and gives away almost 80% of that to charity as a wonderful man? Or du you find a Christian man who is a sinner according to Christianity but equally pious as the muslim and makes 10 millions per year  and gives away almost 80% of that to charity as a wonderful man?

God bless you and thank you for reading

 

As Christians we believe that no human is free from sin, no matter how holy, pious, rich or poor they are.

Unlike us, Muslims believe Mohammed was free from sin. But God surely knows if he was or not.

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3 hours ago, Loveall said:

I have come to the conclusion that studying history will only lead you into making conclusions based on probablities. If it is true that all signs and miracles which we Christians today have as proof for our religion the Muslims have them too then it is a matter of deciding which of the religions orders only goodness since both believe God only orders goodness.

Who is to decide which religions is closest to the truth? Christians, Jews and Muslims will with no doubt come to different conclusions. 

History tells us that Judaism is the oldest, 3.000 years old, but that is no guarante that it is the most correct.

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11 hours ago, Loveall said:

I have come to the conclusion that studying history will only lead you into making conclusions based on probablities. If it is true that all signs and miracles which we Christians today have as proof for our religion the Muslims have them too then it is a matter of deciding which of the religions orders only goodness since both believe God only orders goodness.

Do you find a muslim man who is sinfree according to Islam and makes 10 millons per year and gives away almost 80% of that to charity as a wonderful man? Or du you find a Christian man who is a sinner according to Christianity but equally pious as the muslim and makes 10 millions per year  and gives away almost 80% of that to charity as a wonderful man?

God bless you and thank you for reading

 

There is no such thing as a sin free man, unless youre referring to Jesus.

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7 hours ago, andres said:

Who is to decide which religions is closest to the truth? Christians, Jews and Muslims will with no doubt come to different conclusions. 

History tells us that Judaism is the oldest, 3.000 years old, but that is no guarante that it is the most correct.

One way is to try and see which religion makes you most a good person. It is rare but I have gone thru it. In that way one finds nothing because every religion will have an explain for why this or that. The only way is to think in terms of what is most good. God bless you

Edited by Loveall
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1 hour ago, tek40 said:

There is no such thing as a sin free man, unless youre referring to Jesus.

No I was just meaning to say that Muslims consider some people sinfree. God bless you

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1 hour ago, Loveall said:

One way is to try and see which religion makes you most a good person. It is rare but I have gone thru it. In that way one finds nothing because every religion will have an explain for why this or that. The only way is to think in terms of what is most good. God bless you

But i'm sure you know that there are many agnostics and even atheists who can be very wonderful people. What do you do then?

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12 hours ago, Jafar moh said:

But i'm sure you know that there are many agnostics and even atheists who can be very wonderful people. What do you do then?

No I was trying to say that judging ONLY by what makes you a good person is not the right way to know. Ofcourse the right religion will order you to do only good and make you a better person.In Judism and Christianity righteousness is defined as Gods will while in Islam it is not. In Islam many can be righteous while very few are fully submitted to Gods will. God bless you

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*Being a slave is something negative but being a child is something positive. That is one way to know. In Christianity many can become Gods children thru his grace and the Holy Spirit and thus perfect while in Islam very few can be perfect.

*In Christianity it is not allowed to be rich or own much property which is good for everyone while in Islam it is not so.

*Both in Judaism and Christianity there exists no four holy months like in Islam.

*Both in Judaism and Christianity God creates humans in his image which makes it possible for a human to understand Gods will while in Islam he created human as the most beautiful creation.

*Both in Judaism and Christianity the two commandments of love are central while in Islam there is no such commandment.

 

God bless you

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On 8/1/2016 at 5:10 AM, Loveall said:

 

*In Christianity it is not allowed to be rich or own much property which is good for everyone while in Islam it is not so.

 

all religion aside-- you seem to have a personal vendetta on people who claim to any sort of riches. Why do you stress on the idea that Islam is promoting the idea of arrogance and uncharitable acts and selfishness? 

Quran 57:20 

TRANSLATION

Know that the life of this world is justplay and diversion, and glitter,and mutual vainglory among youand covetousness1 for wealth and children—like the rainwhose vegetation impresses the farmer;then it withers and you see it turn yellow,then it becomes chaff,while in the Hereafter there is a severe punishmentand forgiveness from Allah and His pleasure;and the life of this world is nothingbut the wares of delusion.

 

is a reminder that you should not forget your goal in life; to reach the hereafter. Not necessarily stressing that you should give up this life at all, but know your afterlife is more important? Do you need any more clarification?

Edited by hameedeh
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Prophet Solomon must have not been a prophet then... He was given a whole Kingdom from God.

We on the other hand have neither been given any kingdom by God nor good enough to be a prophet.

Most people loath wealth because they cannot handle loosing it, or cannot handle it when given and loose themselves.

Your true nature will be revealed when something is either given or taken from you.

Godly men will not change in their state towards God, even if all their riches and power will be taken from them, or all the riches and power of the world given to them, as they know true treasure is God only.

Regarding love, probably you have skipped this verse in the Quran :

And [yet], among the people are those who take other than Allah as equals [to Him].

They love them as they [should] LOVE Allah .

But those who BELIEVE are STRONGER in LOVE for Allah (2:165)

Edited by certainclarity
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2 hours ago, certainclarity said:

Prophet Solomon must have not been a prophet then... He was given a whole Kingdom from God.

We on the other hand have neither been given any kingdom by God nor good enough to be a prophet.

Most people loath wealth because they cannot handle loosing it, or cannot handle it when given and loose themselves.

Your true nature will be revealed when something is either given or taken from you.

Godly men will not change in their state towards God, even if all their riches and power will be taken from them, or all the riches and power of the world given to them, as they know true treasure is God only.

Regarding love, probably you have skipped this verse in the Quran :

And [yet], among the people are those who take other than Allah as equals [to Him].

They love them as they [should] LOVE Allah .

But those who BELIEVE are STRONGER in LOVE for Allah (2:165)

The kingdom of Solomon is a historical thing nothing which can be used as evidence for what is good but if he had much property and riches then it was because he used it as a means to attract people to belief in God.

Edited by Loveall
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On 8/1/2016 at 7:02 AM, Jafar moh said:

all religion aside-- you seem to have a personal vendetta on people who claim to any sort of riches. Why do you stress on the idea that Islam is promoting the idea of arrogance and uncharitable acts and selfishness? 

Quran 57:20 

TRANSLATION Know that the life of this world is justplay and diversion, and glitter,and mutual vainglory among youand covetousness1 for wealth and children—like the rainwhose vegetation impresses the farmer;then it withers and you see it turn yellow,then it becomes chaff,while in the Hereafter there is a severe punishmentand forgiveness from Allah and His pleasure;and the life of this world is nothingbut the wares of delusion.

 

is a reminder that you should not forget your goal in life; to reach the hereafter. Not necessarily stressing that you should give up this life at all, but know your afterlife is more important? Do you need any more clarification?

Because Islam allows people to own much property beyond their needs and also have material possesions beyond their means. Your religion just recommends to be very charitable and give property to others and to free slaves.

Edited by hameedeh
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3 hours ago, certainclarity said:

Prophet Solomon must have not been a prophet then... He was given a whole Kingdom from God.

We on the other hand have neither been given any kingdom by God nor good enough to be a prophet.

Most people loath wealth because they cannot handle loosing it, or cannot handle it when given and loose themselves.

Your true nature will be revealed when something is either given or taken from you.

Godly men will not change in their state towards God, even if all their riches and power will be taken from them, or all the riches and power of the world given to them, as they know true treasure is God only.

Regarding love, probably you have skipped this verse in the Quran :

And [yet], among the people are those who take other than Allah as equals [to Him].

They love them as they [should] LOVE Allah .

But those who BELIEVE are STRONGER in LOVE for Allah (2:165)

Christians do not put equals to God atleast not me. Jesus Christ was sinfree before God. Gods are the most beautiful names and we humans are not God. Gods children is just a name given to followers of Jesus Christ who also is a creation. He was a prophet and messenger and is now in heaven where his Kingdom is. God bless you

Edited by Loveall
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On Monday, August 01, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Loveall said:

Because Islam allows people to own much property beyond their needs and also have material possesions beyond their means. Your religion just recommends to be very charitable and give property to others and to free slaves.

But still it is OK not to free slaves????. 

I would like to know where this recommendation can be found.

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14 minutes ago, andres said:

But still it is OK not to free slaves????. 

I would like to know where this recommendation can be found.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery

But the Quran says that those who free slaves will have reward eternally while those who do not will not so it is not just a recommendation.

 

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On Thursday, August 04, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Loveall said:

[90:10-14]

[9:60]

God bless you

 

To free someone from slavery is a good thing. But where does the Quran say that slavery is against the will of God? This is modern ethics, not ethics from the time of the Quran. The Quran like every other book, is influenced by the ethics of its time. Ethics change.

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8 hours ago, andres said:

To free someone from slavery is a good thing. But where does the Quran say that slavery is against the will of God? This is modern ethics, not ethics from the time of the Quran. The Quran like every other book, is influenced by the ethics of its time. Ethics change.

And people does not.

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46 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

And people does not.

Of course people do. We are all a part of our ethnic culture. The reason that the Bible and the Quran did not condemn slavery was that it was generally accepted. 

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4 hours ago, andres said:

Of course people do. We are all a part of our ethnic culture. The reason that the Bible and the Quran did not condemn slavery was that it was generally accepted. 

People does not change, our needs, our wishes, the things we want, the things we strive for are exactly the same as day one. The only thing that changes is our environment. Now we drive cars instead of riding horses, now we have facebook instead of friends, etc, etc.

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7 hours ago, IbnSina said:

People does not change, our needs, our wishes, the things we want, the things we strive for are exactly the same as day one. The only thing that changes is our environment. Now we drive cars instead of riding horses, now we have facebook instead of friends, etc, etc.

Education does change people. Today most of us know the earth is not flat, that it is 4 billion years and that slavery is wrong.

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10 hours ago, andres said:

Education does change people. Today most of us know the earth is not flat, that it is 4 billion years and that slavery is wrong.

The desires of men has not changed and will never change because men are men.

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23 hours ago, andres said:

The reason that the Bible and the Quran did not condemn slavery was that it was generally accepted. 

The Prophet SA and Imams AS did not allow people to kidnap someone and make them a slave. Slaves were captive people who were enemies, fighting against the Muslims in a battle. They were taken into the homes of the Muslims and cared for, given food, clothing and shelter, in the meantime teaching them the beliefs of Islam and rituals like prayer and hajj. Many were married and became Muslim. 

The Holy Qur'an 4:24 says to marry slaves and take care of them so they are not needy:

"And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing."

The Holy Qur'an 2:177 says virtuous people will free a slave: 

"...righteousness is this that one should believe in Allah and the last day and the angels and the Book and the prophets, and give away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and the beggars and for (the emancipation of) the captives [slaves], and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate; and the performers of their promise when they make a promise, and the patient in distress and affliction and in time of conflicts-- these are they who are true (to themselves) and these are they who guard (against evil)."

The Holy Qur'an 24:33 says to free a slave, by writing a paper of emancipation, and giving them money:

"And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you."

The Holy Qur'an 4:92 says if someone kills somebody accidentally, he should free a slave as punishment, but if he cannot find a slave, then fast for two months. In this verse, Allah is saying that slavery will be eradicated, that nobody will find a slave to free him:

",,,but he who cannot find (a slave) should fast for two months successively: a penance from Allah, and Allah is Knowing, Wise."

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1 hour ago, hameedeh said:

The Prophet SA and Imams AS did not allow people to kidnap someone and make them a slave. Slaves were captive people who were enemies, fighting against the Muslims in a battle. They were taken into the homes of the Muslims and cared for, given food, clothing and shelter, in the meantime teaching them the beliefs of Islam and rituals like prayer and hajj. Many were married and became Muslim. 

The Holy Qur'an 4:24 says to marry slaves and take care of them so they are not needy:

"And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing."

The Holy Qur'an 2:177 says virtuous people will free a slave: 

"...righteousness is this that one should believe in Allah and the last day and the angels and the Book and the prophets, and give away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and the beggars and for (the emancipation of) the captives [slaves], and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate; and the performers of their promise when they make a promise, and the patient in distress and affliction and in time of conflicts-- these are they who are true (to themselves) and these are they who guard (against evil)."

The Holy Qur'an 24:33 says to free a slave, by writing a paper of emancipation, and giving them money:

"And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you."

The Holy Qur'an 4:92 says if someone kills somebody accidentally, he should free a slave as punishment, but if he cannot find a slave, then fast for two months. In this verse, Allah is saying that slavery will be eradicated, that nobody will find a slave to free him:

",,,but he who cannot find (a slave) should fast for two months successively: a penance from Allah, and Allah is Knowing, Wise."

This is far from what we in the so called civilised part of the world find fair. Which country could possibly implement these laws?

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2 minutes ago, andres said:

This is far from what we in the so called civilised part of the world find fair. Which country could possibly implement these laws?

@andres You said, "The reason that the Bible and the Quran did not condemn slavery was that it was generally accepted." I quoted verses from the Holy Qur'an that were about slavery. Islam said slaves were people who needed to be married, needed financial help and needed their freedom, so Islam was against slavery. 

Slavery From Islamic and Christian Perspectives

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2 hours ago, hameedeh said:

@andres You said, "The reason that the Bible and the Quran did not condemn slavery was that it was generally accepted." I quoted verses from the Holy Qur'an that were about slavery. Islam said slaves were people who needed to be married, needed financial help and needed their freedom, so Islam was against slavery. 

Slavery From Islamic and Christian Perspectives

It is fine that you interpret the Quran this way. Still the words in the Quran show that the view on slavery was very different from today. Muslims and Christians and Christians alike. Modern nations ban slavery. Old ones did not.

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History is uncertain so basing once belief on that is not smart rather one should base once religion on reality. Islam says it is a sin to eat pork but being somewhat lazy and not work as hard as possible and then give away all money to the poor is not a sin. Christianity is a flexible religion which can be interprented to fit into reality while Islam can not because all Muslim says the Quran is preserved. Muslims say it is a sin not to want to go to Hajj becauce one wants to give these money to the poor instead. Muslim spend millions on traveling to Hajj which could be used to save many lives. I could mention more examples but basicly Islam does not fit into reality.

 

 

Edited by sefket83
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If there comes two men who perform similar miracles and have prophetic abilities both of them. One of the men say we should spend 10 hours per day in prayer while the other says we should spend most of our time working and helping people. Who would you believe in?

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1 hour ago, sefket83 said:

History is uncertain so basing once belief on that is not smart rather one should base once religion on reality. Islam says it is a sin to eat pork but being somewhat lazy and not work as hard as possible and then give away all money to the poor is not a sin. Christianity is a flexible religion which can be interprented to fit into reality while Islam can not because all Muslim says the Quran is preserved. Muslims say it is a sin not to want to go to Hajj becauce one wants to give these money to the poor instead. Muslim spend millions on traveling to Hajj which could be used to save many lives. I could mention more examples but basicly Islam does not fit into reality.

 

 

Herr sefket,

Now you are speaking like an arrogant person and now your ignorance is showing.

Just because the truth is not comfortable to your life situation does not mean that the truth is not the truth.

I would have a discussion with you but if your going to make arrogant asumptions then i will not because that would tell me that your not here to discuss, just here to throw your opinions into the air as if that would make them any more true.

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3 hours ago, sefket83 said:

but basicly Islam does not fit into reality.

Lol this particular sentence had me trolling, because my friend it it the other way around. Islam is a lifestyle, it's a Guideline done for whomever wish to reach the highest level of existence given by God the one and only. It tells you how to eat how to sleep how to interact with people how to raise your kids how to study... how to go to the bathroom even! And numerous other things. It tells you how to live WITHOUT no single contradiction, unlike christianity, which was my religion originally and had me all lost in this life. I just couldnt find this logic that i found in islam... It was impossible.

So go read a bit more about Islam before coming here telling us how to give charity.

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6 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Herr sefket,

Now you are speaking like an arrogant person and now your ignorance is showing.

Just because the truth is not comfortable to your life situation does not mean that the truth is not the truth.

I would have a discussion with you but if your going to make arrogant asumptions then i will not because that would tell me that your not here to discuss, just here to throw your opinions into the air as if that would make them any more true.

Ah I am arrogant and ignorant. I have these weaknesses. :) Being humble is really hard for me but I am well meaning person most of the time.

I think what you mean with true means what is best for humanity. It would be interesting if someone studied the system of life in the Quran. Why is 5 prayers per day better then 4 prayers per day? Or why 30 days fast and not 20 days fast? Why give 2,5% zakat and not 4%? What is really best for humanity? I think one would need to be very knowledgable in many fields to understand the way of life in the Quran and decide if it is the best for humanity or not. I hope I was somewhat more humble this time.

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