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Assalam O Alaikum, Wa Rehmatullah, Wa Barakatuhu


[Isra:36] And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those [one] will be questioned.

[Hujraat:6] O ye who believe! if a wicked person comes to you with any news ascertain the truth lest ye harm people unwittingly and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.


This is a reminder for those who dont consider Ummul Momineen Bibi Ayesha Salamun Alaiha their mother or wife of Our Beloved Prophet S.A.W.W in the life hereafter.


I did want to reply on this thread, but sadly it has been locked.

When I analyzed this thread I made following conclusions, which are very obvious. Anybody can observe.

1. There is no unity among asna ashri shias themselves, even on some basic principles.
2. Beliefs & understanding of most trusted asna ashri shia scholars like Sadooq, Toosi & others are different from today's many shia scholars and their followers.
3. Most of the shias dont care about whether the narrations are authentic or not. They simply judge based on emotions. They can even use any weak narration if its against those whom they dislike/hate.
4. They can also reject authentic narrations of Imams if they go against their emotions.
5. Everyone is accusing/blaming brother @Tawheed313. But truth is that he is only quoting authentic narrations of Imams with testimonies of prominent shia scholars. If anyone really want to criticise then first start with them. Dont be biased, do justice.
6. Many advanced members are openly violating SC rules, yet no one has been banned. I am sorry but Admins and moderators here are biased. Review SC rules once again,

It hurts, really hurts when some people make everything a shia sunni issue. While same is also mentioned in most authenitc books that they follow. As it is evident from posts of brother @Tawheed313 on recently locked thread. Also from following threads + one more that was recently being deleted (You know you are sunni when...).

ATTITUDE AND BELIEF OF MAULA ALI A.S, IMAM HASSAN A.S AND THIER TRUE AND IDEAL SHIAS AMMAR BIN YASIR R.A AND IBN ABBAS R.A CONCERNING UMMUL MOMINEEN AISHA SALAMUN ALAIHA.
 

Narrated Abu Maryam `Abdullah bin Ziyad Al-Aasadi:

When Talha, AzZubair and `Aisha moved to Basra, `Ali sent `Ammar bin Yasir and Hasan bin `Ali who came to us at Kufa and ascended the pulpit. Al-Hasan bin `Ali was at the top of the pulpit and `Ammar was below Al-Hasan. We all gathered before him. I heard `Ammar saying, "`Aisha has moved to Al-Busra. By Allah! She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter. But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him (Allah) or her (`Aisha).  Sahih al-Bukhari 7100

http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/92/51

Narrated Abu Wail:

When `Ali sent `Ammar and Al-Hasan to (the people of) Kufa to urge them to fight, `Ammar addressed them saying, "I know that she (i.e. `Aisha) is the wife of the Prophet (ﷺ) in this world and in the Hereafter (world to come), but Allah has put you to test, whether you will follow Him (i.e. Allah) or her." Sahih al-Bukhari 3772

http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/62/119


Great Debate of Ibn Abbas with Khawarij
Source: Silsilah al-Sahihah by Albani (5/12-13)

https://abdurrahmanorg.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/the-great-debate-of-ibn-abbas-with-the-khawarij-shaykh-al-albanee-authentic-translations-com.pdf

I (Ibn Abbas) said: As for your statement, He fought but did not take captives and did not take war booty, then would you take your mother (in Islam) Aishah, as a captive, making her permissible for yourselves for that which you make permissible from other than her while she is your mother? If you say We make permissible from her that which we make Permissible from other than her, then you have committed disbelief. And if you say, “She is not our mother,” then you have also committed disbelief.

The prophet is closer to the believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers [Ahzab:6]

And so you are between the two ill judgments. So, which of them do you want to take? Have we finished with this point?

They (Khawarij) replied, “YES”

Alhamdulillah, I am proud to call myself SHIA like Ammar Bin Yasir and Ibn Abbas (two ideal & true shias of Imam Ali) and I am on their path concerning Ummul Momineen Aisha Salamun Alaiha, as prescribed/ordered by Maula Ali a.s.


SURAH AHZAB - 6

النَّبِيُّ أَوْلَىٰ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ ۖ وَأَزْوَاجُهُ أُمَّهَاتُهُمْ ۗ وَأُولُو الْأَرْحَامِ بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلَىٰ بِبَعْضٍ فِي كِتَابِ اللَّهِ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُهَاجِرِينَ إِلَّا أَنْ تَفْعَلُوا إِلَىٰ أَوْلِيَائِكُمْ مَعْرُوفًا ۚ كَانَ ذَٰلِكَ فِي الْكِتَابِ مَسْطُورًا

The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and his wives are their (believers) mothers. Blood-relations among each other have closer personal ties, in the Decree of Allah. Than (the Brotherhood of) Believers and Muhajirs: nevertheless do ye what is just to your closest friends: such is the writing in the Decree (of Allah).

In this connection, the wives of the Holy Prophet are mothers of the believers only in the sense that the Muslims are under obligation to have reverence and respect for them, and no Muslim could marry them.

This status accrues to all the wives of the Holy Prophet s.a.w.w including Bibi Aisha Salamun Alaiha. Every person who claims to be a believer has to acknowledge her as his mother.
 

Jazak Allah Khairan

 

NOTE: If anyone has objections please post/reply with authentic evidences in order to negate the beliefs/verdicts of AMMAR BIN YASIR AND IBN ABBAS. Otherwise keep quite. I am not interested in your emotions, personal views, excuses or assumptions with regard to this particular matter. And also I dont want that this thread becomes closed/locked/derailed. As some people are hijacking and derailing many threads of brother @Tawheed313 for no valid reason.

 

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as a sunni, do you not believe that anyone who raised a rebellion against a rightly guided caliph, is a "baghi" - a rebel?

in your own fiqh, is a baghi not so najis, that it is forbidden for the muslim to even recite their funeral prayers?

these are your own beliefs. 

ammi jaan aisha openly stirred up, and lead a rebellion against your rightful guided caliph - Maula Ali (as) - to the point she even gave a speech before the battle which caused people in Maula Ali (as) army to abandon him and join her, and she then was in the heart of the battlefield. 

all emotions aside, is this not a fact?

secondly to this (as if this was not enough), she disobeyed direct orders to her, personally, in the holy quran. an example of her disobedience of commands of Allah are the aya commanding the wives of the prophet to stay in their houses. 

all emotions aside, is this not a fact?

what do we call those who reject the quran? do we call them our mothers? do we call them muslims?

so I am sorry. we, the shia do not respect those who act in this way just because at one point they were married to the holy prophet (pbuh). we do not love those who went to war against Imam Ali (as). 

 

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Aisha being the ''Mother of believers'' LOL give me a break.

Ok so I will start with some verses of the Holy Quran:

"O wives of the Prophet! Whoever of you commits flagrant indecency will have your punishment twice  over. Indeed it is easy for Allah to double your punishment. As for those who are obedient to Allah and  His Apostle and act righteously We shall give them their reward twice over. We have rare gifts in store for  them." 33:30

And yet another verse said:

"O wives of the Prophet, you are like no other women. If you fear Allah do not be soft spoken, for it will  tempt the man who has a disease in his heart. Speak in a dignified tone, stay in your homes, and do not  display your beauty as in the days of ignorance. Observe prayer, give alms, and obey Allah and His  Apostle. Members of the house of the Prophet! Allah only intends to rid you of your uncleanliness and to  purify you completely. Women keep in mind the revelations of Allah and the words of wisdom which are  recited in your houses. Benign is Allah; All-Aware." 33:32

If the wives were meant to stay in the homes, then why did Aisha go out to war in the battle of Jamal??

PLUS being the wife of a Prophet doesn't make you immune from sin or does not make anyone saved automatically from hellfire. 

The Messenger of Allah said:


"The best of women of Paradise are: Khadija Bint Khowailid, Fatima Bint Muhammad, Asia Bint Muzahim (Pharaoh's wife) and Maryam Bint Imran."

LOL. Notice how Aisha is nowhere to be included in this list yet for sunnis she is the mother of all believers!!

2 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Alhamdulillah, I am proud to call myself SHIA like Ammar Bin Yasir and Ibn Abbas (two ideal & true shias of Imam Ali) and I am on their path concerning Ummul Momineen Aisha Salamun Alaiha, as prescribed/ordered by Maula Ali a.s.

She bore a war against the caliph of the time, no other than Imam Ali. She openly had a resentment towards the Ahlul Bayt, particularly Imam Ali (AS). See her actions with Imam Hasan's (AS) burial. 

How can you call yourself a ''true shia '' of Imam Ali (AS), when you know what she did to our Imams?

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By Allah the approach used by almost every shia poster so far has been the wrong method and approach. The sarcasm used by the majority of posters here was not needed. 

When you discuss such sensitive issues about symbols so revered by our brothers in the ahlus-sunnah wal jamaah, keep the discussion academic, cordial and polite.

To the Original Poster, the users who normally post on the shia-sunni discussions, and on such threads, are normally those who do not possess knowledge on how to deal with these issues.

The shia ithnasheri position on Umm Aisha is clear: the Ijma is that she and Umm Hafsah did not kill Rasulullah s.a.w.

 

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2 hours ago, IbnSina said:

" UMMUL MOMINEEN AISHA "

lol....

Was this needed? Was the sarcasm needed brother? Many of our Ulema refer to her as 'Umulmimineen Aisha', many sheikhs, and many respected scholars. It does not mean they believe she is going to janatul firdaus. It is a symbol of respect - and for the better unity of this Ummah.

 

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Brothers @Tawheed313 and @Fahad Sani,

I understand where you are coming from. The Topic "Did Umm Aisha/Hafsah slaughter Muhammed s.a.w?" really should have been labeled something like "Was the Prophet poisoned" or "Was the Prophet killed" and then an analysis could have been done around his demise.

The inflammatory text within the question caused people to react in such a manner.

Now, contrary to what many Sunnis are led to believe about the Shias raising the status of Ali to be better than that of the Prophet, we love and hold dear the Prophet more than anyone else in the World.

So before I care about what Hz Aisha did to Imam Ali and the slaughter of thousands of sahaba and before I care about what did did to Imam Hasan's janaza, I care about what she did to the Prophet.

No emotions, just facts - is there another wife who caused as much grief to the Prophet as Hz Aisha? It got so bad that Allah had to issue an admonishment and threaten her with divorce:

[Shakir 66:4] If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders.
[Shakir 66:5] Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins.

There are numerous examplesI can cite that would make your blood boil if you truly love the Prophet that how could someone cause so much grief to the Mercy for All Worlds. I will not cite them here out of respect but the evidence is readily available.

So you see brothers, our unfavorable opinion of Hz Aisha is due to her actions against the Prophet first and foremost. Now if you can provide evidence that the Prophet forgave her misgivings then surely our opinions would change immediately.

Think of Hz Hurr in Karbala. Up until the morning of Ashura, Hurr was the biggest culprit of Hussain. But our Imam forgave him and so we forgave him. Similarly, if the Prophet forgave Hz Aisha, then we will too. Her actions against Imam Ali and Imam Hasan could just be 'ijtehad' erros like the Sunnis believe.

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2 hours ago, IbnSina said:

" UMMUL MOMINEEN AISHA "

lol....

Was this needed? Was the sarcasm needed brother? Many of our Ulema refer to her as 'Umulmimineen Aisha', many sheikhs, and many respected scholars. It does not mean they believe she is going to janatul firdaus. It is a symbol of respect - and for the better unity of this Ummah.

 

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2 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

Was this needed? Was the sarcasm needed brother? Many of our Ulema refer to her as 'Umulmimineen Aisha', many sheikhs, and many respected scholars. It does not mean they believe she is going to janatul firdaus. It is a symbol of respect - and for the better unity of this Ummah.

 

Because the mother of the ummah is not Aisha.

Because the mother of the ummah would not start a war against Imam Ali(as).

You know what is really disgusting to me? When its so important for someone to get along with everyone that he is ready to bend his principles and bend the concept of right and wrong and make THE TRUTH less relevant in hopes of making people happy. 

I love those who love ahlul bayt(as) and I hate those who hate ahlul bayt(as). But I have a special hate for hypocrites!

I love the ummah and I want unity as well but I want unity under the light of the TRUTH, I will not sacrifice the truth for the sake of unity. 

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5 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

Because the mother of the ummah is not Aisha.

Because the mother of the ummah would not start a war against Imam Ali(as).

You know what is really disgusting to me? When its so important for someone to get along with everyone that he is ready to bend his principles and bend the concept of right and wrong and make THE TRUTH less relevant in hopes of making people happy. 

I love those who love ahlul bayt(as) and I hate those who hate ahlul bayt(as). But I have a special hate for hypocrites!

I love the ummah and I want unity as well but I want unity under the light of the TRUTH, I will not sacrifice the truth for the sake of unity. 

No-one is asking you to sacrifice truth for the sake of anything. The reality is being sarcastic is not the way forward. Furthermore, many of our Ulema do refer to her as 'Umulmimineen'. Many sheikhs, and many scholars. It's not a few renegades. 

I have criticised Umulmimineen Aisha's words, actions far more than anyone else has done. But, my posts have been far more effective, and have reached the hearts of our sunni brothers far deeper, than the posts which use sarcasm and will only incite animosity, ill-feeling and hatred.

 

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2 hours ago, Hijab al-Zahra said:

Aisha being the ''Mother of believers'' LOL give me a break.

 

 

The rest of your post was academic, and fine.

But was this introductory line really necessary ? Even if that is what you feel, do you not see how it could incite hatred and animosity? 

Can we all not just discuss without the use of offensive sarcasm ?

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Salam Alykom

Guys, there is a reason why many of our Ulamas have released fatwas condemning saying anything bad or cursing Aisha.

Perhaps this could be one of the reasons:

 

فَمَنِ اسْتَطَاعَ عِنْدَ ذلِكَ أَنْ يَعْتَقِلَ نَفْسَهُ عَلَى اللهِ، فَلْيَفْعَلْ، فَإِنْ أَطَعْتُمُوني فَإِنِّي حَامِلُكُمْ إِنْ شَاءَ اللهُ عَلَى سَبِيلِ الْجَنَّةِ، وَإِنْ كَانَ ذَا مَشَقَّة شَدِيدَة وَمَذَاقَة مَرِيرَة.

As regards a certain woman,1 she is in the grip of womanly views, and malice is boiling in her bosom like the furnace of the blacksmith. If she were called upon to deal with others as she is dealing with me she would not have done it. (As for me), even hereafter she will be allowed her original respect, while the reckoning (of her misdeeds) is an obligation on Allah.

NAHJUL BALAGHA Sermon 156

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-156-whoever-can-time-keep-himself

 

Feel free to check this video out:

 

However, that doesn't mean that we should higher her status or ignore the facts regarding the incidents that has occurred. But at the same time, we have to leave everything to Allah SWT to judge her, and He (SWT) knows the best.

 

@Tawheed313 May Allah SWT reward you brother for all your efforts!

Edited by The Straight Path
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5 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Alhamdulillah, I am proud to call myself SHIA like Ammar Bin Yasir and Ibn Abbas (two ideal & true shias of Imam Ali) and I am on their path concerning Ummul Momineen Aisha Salamun Alaiha, as prescribed/ordered by Maula Ali a.s.

True shia of Ibn Abbas huh? 

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

I intended to ask Umar so I said, "Who were those two ladies who tried to back each other against the Prophet?" I hardly finished my speech when he said, "They were Aisha and Hafsa." (Sahih Bukhari Hadith: 6.436)

This is just one hadeeth out of many. Another interesting hadeeth is:

Narrated Abdullah:

The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointed to the house of

Aisha, and said: "Fitna is right here," saying three times, "and from where the side of the Satan's head comes out." (Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 4.336)

4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

If anyone has objections please post/reply with authentic evidences in order to negate the beliefs/verdicts of AMMAR BIN YASIR AND IBN ABBAS. Otherwise keep quite. I am not interested in your emotions, personal views, excuses or assumptions with regard to this particular matter.

 

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56 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

The rest of your post was academic, and fine.

But was this introductory line really necessary ? Even if that is what you feel, do you not see how it could incite hatred and animosity? 

Can we all not just discuss without the use of offensive sarcasm ?

No comment... Just woah. 

Hello? Do you not understand? This woman is the enemy of the Ahlul Bayt (AS) So what do you want me to say? How can someone love those who oppressed the Prophet's family?!

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UMMUL MOMINEEN ??

فروى الشعبيّ عن مسروق عن عائشة رضي الله عنها أن امرأة قالت لها: يا أمّة؛ فقالت لها: لست لك بأمّ، إنما أنا أمّ رجالكم. قال ابن العربي: وهو الصحيح.

"One day one woman called Aisha with "Ummul Momineen". Upon this Aisha became enraged and said: " I am not your mother, but (only) of your men"."And "Ibn Arabi" said: "This Hadith is Authentic (Sahih)".

References:

1.  Qurtabi under Tafsir of Verse 6 of Surah al-Ahdhaab [Quran 33:06]

2.  Imam Beyhaqi in his Sunnan (fromالشعبيّ ) .

3.  Tabqat Ibn Saad (From Another Chain than الشعبيّ ):

حدثنا هشام أبو الوليد الطيالسي حدثنا أبو عوانة عن فراس عن عامر عن مسروق أن امرأة قالت لعائشة يا أمة فقالت لست بأمك أنا أم رجالكم  

4. Tafsir Mazhaari (Urdu Edition, under Tafsir of Verse 33:06)

 

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5 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

1. There is no unity among asna ashri shias themselves, even on some basic principles.
2. Beliefs & understanding of most trusted asna ashri shia scholars like Sadooq, Toosi & others are different from today's many shia scholars and their followers.
3. Most of the shias dont care about whether the narrations are authentic or not. They simply judge based on emotions. They can even use any weak narration if its against those whom they dislike/hate.
4. They can also reject authentic narrations of Imams if they go against their emotions.
5. Everyone is accusing/blaming brother @Tawheed313. But truth is that he is only quoting authentic narrations of Imams with testimonies of prominent shia scholars. If anyone really want to criticise then first start with them. Dont be biased, do justice.
6. Many advanced members are openly violating SC rules, yet no one has been banned. I am sorry but Admins and moderators here are biased. Review SC rules once again,

 

Just to make a few points, and this is not to disrespect certian users here but:

Shiachat's shia-sunni dialogue section is in no way indicative of shia ithnaseri's as a whole. Furthermore, historical opinions of Umulmimineen Aisha does not constitute our Aqeedah. Additionally, the minority who use foul language on here, go against the advise of almost all of our most prominent Ulema. On this basis, one can therefore, not make this conclusion.

The level of argumentation and knowledge of shia belief, authenticity of texts, and even basic adhab as advised by our Ulema is sorely lacking by the minority who use the shia-sunni discussion board. Our most knowledgable members do not get involved much with debates here, and so you will get a very one-sided view on these issues.

Secondly, one can not generalise and claim most shia's do not care about the authenticity of narrations. The Ijma of our shia ulema is that there is no reliable evidence to put forth an allegation that Umm Aisha killed Muhammed s.a.w. Our Ulema and the majority of shia's do not hold such a belief. It is the cult of Yasser Habib and his Sahaba.

They are indeed, openly violating shiachat rules, and no-one is being banned why ? There are only a few moderators online at any one time,  many are busy, and the one moderator who is dealing with these issues is Starlight, who has liked many of the posts taken straight from yasser habibs website, and has worked with and sided with the minority of users who are talking without any adhab whatsoever. 

 

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1 minute ago, Tawheed313 said:

Starlight, who has liked many of the posts taken straight from yasser habibs website, and has worked with and sided with the minority of users who are talking without any adhab whatsoever.

313 are minority also.

I'll call Netanyahu Bibi but not Aisha.

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13 minutes ago, celestial said:

313 are minority also.

I'll call Netanyahu Bibi but not Aisha.

Part of me wants you banned from our boards. But i recognise by banning you, it will only infuriate you more and make you go further in this behaviour, and thus do our madhab far more harm. So it is better to keep you where we can have an effect on you.

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32 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

Just to make a few points, and this is not to disrespect certian users here but:

Shiachat's shia-sunni dialogue section is in no way indicative of shia ithnaseri's as a whole. Furthermore, historical opinions of Umulmimineen Aisha does not constitute our Aqeedah. Additionally, the minority who use foul language on here, go against the advise of almost all of our most prominent Ulema. On this basis, one can therefore, not make this conclusion.

The level of argumentation and knowledge of shia belief, authenticity of texts, and even basic adhab as advised by our Ulema is sorely lacking by the minority who use the shia-sunni discussion board. Our most knowledgable members do not get involved much with debates here, and so you will get a very one-sided view on these issues.

Secondly, one can not generalise and claim most shia's do not care about the authenticity of narrations. The Ijma of our shia ulema is that there is no reliable evidence to put forth an allegation that Umm Aisha killed Muhammed s.a.w. Our Ulema and the majority of shia's do not hold such a belief. It is the cult of Yasser Habib and his Sahaba.

They are indeed, openly violating shiachat rules, and no-one is being banned why ? There are only a few moderators online at any one time,  many are busy, and the one moderator who is dealing with these issues is Starlight, who has liked many of the posts taken straight from yasser habibs website, and has worked with and sided with the minority of users who are talking without any adhab whatsoever. 

 

no emotions - just facts...

2 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Brothers @Tawheed313 and @Fahad Sani,

I understand where you are coming from. The Topic "Did Umm Aisha/Hafsah slaughter Muhammed s.a.w?" really should have been labeled something like "Was the Prophet poisoned" or "Was the Prophet killed" and then an analysis could have been done around his demise.

The inflammatory text within the question caused people to react in such a manner.

Now, contrary to what many Sunnis are led to believe about the Shias raising the status of Ali to be better than that of the Prophet, we love and hold dear the Prophet more than anyone else in the World.

So before I care about what Hz Aisha did to Imam Ali and the slaughter of thousands of sahaba and before I care about what did did to Imam Hasan's janaza, I care about what she did to the Prophet.

No emotions, just facts - is there another wife who caused as much grief to the Prophet as Hz Aisha? It got so bad that Allah had to issue an admonishment and threaten her with divorce:

[Shakir 66:4] If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders.
[Shakir 66:5] Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins.

There are numerous examplesI can cite that would make your blood boil if you truly love the Prophet that how could someone cause so much grief to the Mercy for All Worlds. I will not cite them here out of respect but the evidence is readily available.

So you see brothers, our unfavorable opinion of Hz Aisha is due to her actions against the Prophet first and foremost. Now if you can provide evidence that the Prophet forgave her misgivings then surely our opinions would change immediately.

Think of Hz Hurr in Karbala. Up until the morning of Ashura, Hurr was the biggest culprit of Hussain. But our Imam forgave him and so we forgave him. Similarly, if the Prophet forgave Hz Aisha, then we will too. Her actions against Imam Ali and Imam Hasan could just be 'ijtehad' erros like the Sunnis believe.

 

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3 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

By Allah the approach used by almost every shia poster so far has been the wrong method and approach. The sarcasm used by the majority of posters here was not needed. 

When you discuss such sensitive issues about symbols so revered by our brothers in the ahlus-sunnah wal jamaah, keep the discussion academic, cordial and polite.

To the Original Poster, the users who normally post on the shia-sunni discussions, and on such threads, are normally those who do not possess knowledge on how to deal with these issues.

The shia ithnasheri position on Umm Aisha is clear: the Ijma is that she and Umm Hafsah did not kill Rasulullah s.a.w.

 

Please ya akhi, may Allah have mercy upon you, don't take this the wrong way. but we shouldn't look at how he delivered the message we should look at the message itself. Our brothers may have not said it in the best possible manner but they have brought some interesting points to the table. 

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8 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Narrated Abu Maryam `Abdullah bin Ziyad Al-Aasadi:

When Talha, AzZubair and `Aisha moved to Basra, `Ali sent `Ammar bin Yasir and Hasan bin `Ali who came to us at Kufa and ascended the pulpit. Al-Hasan bin `Ali was at the top of the pulpit and `Ammar was below Al-Hasan. We all gathered before him. I heard `Ammar saying, "`Aisha has moved to Al-Busra. By Allah! She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter. But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him (Allah) or her (`Aisha).  Sahih al-Bukhari 7100

http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/92/51

Ok. So let me add something. Without any disrespect, I'm trying to highlight what is apparent and clear. 

In your own narrations (sahih bukhari) , it clearly says Ammar says that this was a test for the muslims whether they would follow Aisha or Allah(swt). 

This means that Aisha's ways are completely against Allah(swt). It is a matter of truth and falsehood. You shouldn't take this lightly then. Imam Ali (as) sent Ammar bin Yasir (ra) and Imam Hassan (as) to tell the muslims, that you have two choices, either to obey Allah(swt), or obey Aisha. 

If you are a sane person, then you will choose to understand the rest.

 

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3 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

They are indeed, openly violating shiachat rules, and no-one is being banned why ? There are only a few moderators online at any one time,  many are busy, and the one moderator who is dealing with these issues is Starlight, who has liked many of the posts taken straight from yasser habibs website, and has worked with and sided with the minority of users who are talking without any adhab whatsoever. 

 

Which rules do you feel have been violated? People have the right to express their views on `Aisha. I don't happen to believe that she killed the Prophet (s), but it's an opinion that is out there, and if people want to advance that theory, then they can do so.

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49 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Which rules do you feel have been violated? People have the right to express their views on `Aisha. I don't happen to believe that she killed the Prophet (s), but it's an opinion that is out there, and if people want to advance that theory, then they can do so.

I just would like to clarify, my issue with behaviour shown ihas nothing to do with someone expressing a historical view i do not hold(i refute their absurd views directly , rather than claim it is against the rules). Rather, the abuse, inflammatory language, terrible adhab, sarcasm, and clear violation of guidance given to us by our Ulema, as well as shiachat rules. 

The following thread:

The shiachat rules state:  http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/12120-faq-shiachatcom-rules-and-policy/#comment-2919571

 

"Cursing of the 3 "Caliphs" (Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman by name or number) and of any of the Holy Prophet's (pbuh) wives, as well as Sunni scholars is strictly prohibited. This involves cursing by name, swear words and defamatory language. "

I argue that to any human being with sense , the following language and behaviour goes above and beyond mere criticism and proposing a theory, however unpopular, and is a clear example of very offensive, inflammatory, unhelpful and defamatory language, specifically at Ummulmumineen Aisha:

Digital Ummah wrote regarding Umm Aisha: " i have ALWAYS hated that name alhamdulillah Allah made her barren so her offspring couldnt infect the good earth "

To any human being who is honest with themselves and has common sense, praising Allah (azwj) that Umm Aisha was made barren, so her offpsring couldn't infect the earth is clear inflammatory language, and clearly against shiachat rules.

[edited]

 

On a thread that was clearly about Umm Aisha, Digital Ummah clearly trying to play a loophole, clearly meaning Aisha, clearly bolding the 'WOMAN' part which to anyone above the age of seven would denote Aisha , did Lanah i say is as good as naming her given the context - celestial also quotes Digital Ummah and gives the other name of Aisha, clearly again, meaning Aisha. This is clearly bending the rules and another example of Public Lanah.

Evidence:

103xzfc.jpg

 

 

 

Personal attacks against me:

Now, the reason why i am not pressing on and giving evidence for personal attacks against me is because i frankly don't care what people say about me. My only concern is the madhab of the ahlulbayt asws and Muhammed s.a.w, and Allah azwj. However, i have been called a traitor, a batri, insulted, mocked, and abused. I forgive everyone who has done so: i don't care about personal insults.

Edited by Haydar Husayn
At member's request
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I would point out that the ShiaChat rules also state the following:

Quote

9. Policies or actions by the ShiaChat team should not be discussed and made into a public debate, unless specified by a Moderator/Admin. If anyone is unhappy with the actions taken against them by the ShiaChat team feel free to contact the moderators and reasons will be given to them. Discussions of ShiaChat's internal affairs in a public manner causes more confusion and therefore will not be allowed unless initiated by the ShiaChat team. Additionally, topics closed by moderators shall not be re-opened by members in any form or way.

If you think anyone has violated ShiaChat rules, then simply report the relevant posts, and insha'Allah they will be dealt with appropriately (and certainly some of the posts you have highlighted do at the very least seem to be worth looking at). What you should not do is discuss these issues in public, or point fingers at individual moderators. We are all human, and have our own biases, which we mostly don't try to hide. However, we also try to the best of our ability to moderate in an impartial manner, and just because our moderating occasionally appears to line up with our beliefs, it doesn't necessarily mean that we are not following proper procedures, or are abusing our power.

 

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19 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

I would point out that the ShiaChat rules also state the following:

If you think anyone has violated ShiaChat rules, then simply report the relevant posts, and insha'Allah they will be dealt with appropriately (and certainly some of the posts you have highlighted do at the very least seem to be worth looking at). What you should not do is discuss these issues in public, or point fingers at individual moderators. We are all human, and have our own biases, which we mostly don't try to hide. However, we also try to the best of our ability to moderate in an impartial manner, and just because our moderating occasionally appears to line up with our beliefs, it doesn't necessarily mean that we are not following proper procedures, or are abusing our power.

 

Alright, i apologise about this one. I do have to say i typed a whole essay which i was about to clearly and convincingly show you why i had a solid case to say what i say, and anyone who knows me knows i do not make such claims lightly, i don't want confrontation, or to hurt anyone. I was going to PM you , but i don't want to backbite either.

I refer it to Allah azwj. 

Could i ask you to edit my post and remove that part please?

Edited by Tawheed313
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25 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

x

 

I'd also like to add, i am not pushing for bans. Only for deletions of said comments and clear warnings.

If you ban the users, it will infuriate them and push them onto extreme message boards, and that animosity and sense of hatred will only make them worse.

It is therefore better to keep them on shiachat where their behaviour can be corrected and some sort of proper conduct preached to them.

 

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7 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

Alright, i apologise about this one. I do have to say i typed a whole essay which i was about to clearly and convincingly show you why i had a solid case to say what i say, and anyone who knows me knows i do not make such claims lightly, i don't want confrontation, or to hurt anyone. I was going to PM you , but i don't want to backbite either.

I refer it to Allah azwj. 

Could i ask you to edit my post and remove that part please?

I've edited. As I said, if you do feel that any posts break ShiaChat rules, then you are welcome to report them, and I promise to take the reports seriously. There is certainly no point in having rules that we don't enforce.

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5 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

I've edited. As I said, if you do feel that any posts break ShiaChat rules, then you are welcome to report them, and I promise to take the reports seriously. There is certainly no point in having rules that we don't enforce.

Whatever you decide, and the general team decides, even if i do not agree with it, i recognise it and i submit to it (i won't argue against it). I'm not here to cause discord or to impose myself. 

Once again, thank you for the time.

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