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Assalam O Alaikum all dear brothers and sisters,

I want to know, Why shia say this phrase "ajjil farajahum" (May Allah Hasten His Return).

Is there any narration from Imams which confirm/support this? Plz share if anyone knows?

While on the other hand there are narrations which are clearly against this phrase.

 

Original source: https://www.al-islam.org/kitab-al-ghayba-book-occultation-sheikh-an-numani/chapter-16-forbidding-timing-and-naming-al-qaim#fref_63c9118a_1

(1) Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Sa'eed narrated from Ali bin al-Hasan from al-Hasan bin Ali bin Yousuf from Muhammad bin Ali from Sa’dan bin Muslim that Abu Baseer had said:

I said to Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (as): “Does this matter (the appearance of al-Mahdi) not have an end so that we relieve ourselves?” He said: “Yes, it does. But you (people) announced it; therefore Allah put it off.”

Other reference: Biharul Anwar, vol.52 p.117.


(15) Muhammad bin Ya'qoob narrated from al-Husayn bin Muhammad from Ja'far bin Muhammad from al-Qassim bin Issma'eel al-Anbari from al-Hasan bin Ali from Ibraheem bin Muhzim from his father that Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (as) had said when the (Abbasid) rulers had been mentioned before him:

“People perished because they hastened this matter (deliverance). Allah does not become hasty just because that people urge on their matters to be achieved. This matter (the appearance of al-Qa'im) has a precise time that it must reach. If it reaches its time, it will occur neither an hour sooner nor an hour later.”

Other reference: Al-Kafi, vol.1 p.369, Biharul Anwar, vol.52 p.118, Mo’jam Ahadeeth al-Imam al-Mahdi, vol.3 p.418

 

Jazak Allah Khairan

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2 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Assalam O Alaikum all dear brothers and sisters,

I want to know, Why shia say this phrase "ajjil farajahum" (May Allah Hasten His Return).

Is there any narration from Imams which confirm/support this? Plz share if anyone knows?

Salam. Sister Sumayyeh mentioned a narration about praying for the return of Imam Mahdi AJ in the Salawat topic. @Sumayyeh

 برای تعجیل فرج بسیار دعا كنید كه این فرج خود شماست»(بحارالانوار, جلد 53, ص183)

Imam Sadegh AS said: Pray for the hastening of relief (Faraj) a great deal, for this is your Faraj. (Biharal Anwar, volume 53, page 183)

 

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Salam

Both contraditing hadiths are correct in its own class and time .

When the hadiths says don't ask for hastening the appearance of the Qaim it means don't ask to hasten it without pure acts and intentions other wise you will be in trouble.

When it says pray to hasten it means be pure in act and intention , so that you could experience his mercy not wrath.

So basically this is warning for those who call themselves Shias, or born Shias, that you are not a shia unless you obey Allah fully, without personal opinions,

And a glad tiding to those who are Shias in action, not just by name .

And according to hadiths they are only 10,000 true Shias of the Qaim.

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19 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

As you said, "ajjil farajuhum" means May Allah Hasten His Return.

It is a dua and nothing more. The narrations you quoted mention announcing a specific date and/or time but ajjil farajuhum does not do that.

While it is true that Allah has a set date+time+place for the zuhoor it does not mean we cannot pray for it to be early. As an example, sadaqa and dua are supposed so to be so powerful that they can delay a person's time of death. Similarly, by saying this phrase we are making dua that should Allah see it fit, He may hasten the zuhoor of the Imam.

Hope this helps.

Although the name of chapter is "forbidding timing and naming Al-Qaim" as set by the author but above two narrations are not talking about any of the two.

First narration say: delay is due to announcements.

Second one say: Poeple who hastened in this matter were perished. It will occur in its prescribed time.

SInce centuries people are invoking this phrase, but no result. Wait is still going on. All such people are passed away. Dont you think may be the delay is all because of this particular phrase. As its also a type of announcement. So announce it or not, it will make no any difference, its very very clear from above narrations.

Also there are many major signs that will occur before Imam Mahdi a.s, like battle at Mina, disclosure of mountain of gold from Euphrates, Emergence of Sufiyani, An army will perish in Baidah, The emergence of al-A'hraj al-Kindi, Abqa and Ashab, Earth will swallow a village near Damascus, An army with black banners will come from the east etc. All this will happen for sure at its specified time then there will be time of Imam.

Today most shias invoke this phrase, its fine. As it is associated with Imam of their time, according to their belief. But why people of the time of 6th Imam (and of previous Imams) were announcing and hastening for his coming? 

Abu Baseer said to Imam Jafar (6th Imam)

“Does this matter (the appearance of al-Mahdi) not have an end so that we relieve ourselves?”

Were they unaware about concept of Imamat that there will be 12 Imams and the last one will be Al-Qaim and he will also undergo an occultation period. Currently we are in time of 6th Imam, after him there will be 5 more Imams etc.

Where was theory of Imamat (12 Imams) at that time? 

 

18 hours ago, hameedeh said:

Salam. Sister Sumayyeh mentioned a narration about praying for the return of Imam Mahdi AJ in the Salawat topic. @Sumayyeh

 برای تعجیل فرج بسیار دعا كنید كه این فرج خود شماست»(بحارالانوار, جلد 53, ص183)

Imam Sadegh AS said: Pray for the hastening of relief (Faraj) a great deal, for this is your Faraj. (Biharal Anwar, volume 53, page 183)

 

W.salam Sister. Thanks for the refenrece. But bihar ul anwar is a secondary source. I am looking for original source with full chain of narrators. I hope it will be there in bihar. Thanks again.

I have few questions on this. if you like to answer.

1. If praying for hastening of relief is a great deal then why Abu Basir was rebuked by Imam Jafar Sadiq A.S for the same. “Yes, it does. But you (people) announced it; therefore Allah put it off.” ?

2. Why people during time of 6th Imam were praying for hastening of relief? They have nothing to do with it. Everyone has to recognize Imam of his time. Not Imam of later generations (12th Imam)? According to asna ashri belief.

3. Dont you think "Ajjil farajahum" is also a type of announcement and a way of hastening the matter, which is in contradiction to the narrations in OP?

18 hours ago, certainclarity said:

Salam

Both contraditing hadiths are correct in its own class and time .

When the hadiths says don't ask for hastening the appearance of the Qaim it means don't ask to hasten it without pure acts and intentions other wise you will be in trouble.

When it says pray to hasten it means be pure in act and intention , so that you could experience his mercy not wrath.

So basically this is warning for those who call themselves Shias, or born Shias, that you are not a shia unless you obey Allah fully, without personal opinions,

And a glad tiding to those who are Shias in action, not just by name .

And according to hadiths they are only 10,000 true Shias of the Qaim.

W.salam wa rehmatullah.

Sorry brother, Such conditions are not mentioned in above narrations.

Following narration clearly says without any condition, that Allah does not become hasty just becuase of the people. This matter will occur when its time will reach. So there is no point in praying Allah to hasten the matter.

“People perished because they hastened this matter (deliverance). Allah does not become hasty just because that people urge on their matters to be achieved. This matter (the appearance of al-Qa'im) has a precise time that it must reach. If it reaches its time, it will occur neither an hour sooner nor an hour later.”

I agree that "You are not a shia unless you obey Allah fully, without personal opinion"

Brother, I am also a shia but not hasty. I am obeying Allah in this matter.

Edited by Fahad Sani
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40 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Although the name of chapter is "forbidding timing and naming Al-Qaim" as set by the author but above two narrations are not talking about any of the two.

First narration say: delay is due to announcements.

Second one say: Poeple who hastened in this matter were perished. It will occur in its prescribed time.

SInce centuries people are invoking this phrase, but no result. Wait is still going on. All such people are passed away. Dont you think may be the delay is all because of this particular phrase. As its also a type of announcement. So announce it or not, it will make no any difference, its very very clear from above narrations.

Also there are many major signs that will occur before Imam Mahdi a.s, like battle at Mina, disclosure of mountain of gold from Euphrates, Emergence of Sufiyani, An army will perish in Baidah, The emergence of al-A'hraj al-Kindi, Abqa and Ashab, Earth will swallow a village near Damascus, An army with black banners will come from the east etc. All this will happen for sure at its specified time then there will be time of Imam.

Today most shias invoke this phrase, its fine. As it is associated with Imam of their time, according to their belief. But why people of the time of 6th Imam (and of previous Imams) were announcing and hastening for his coming? 

Abu Baseer said to Imam Jafar (6th Imam)

“Does this matter (the appearance of al-Mahdi) not have an end so that we relieve ourselves?”

Were they unaware about concept of Imamat that there will be 12 Imams and the last one will be Al-Qaim and he will also undergo an occultation period. Currently we are in time of 6th Imam, after him there will be 5 more Imams etc.

Where was theory of Imamat (12 Imams) at that time? 

 

W.salam Sister. Thanks for the refenrece. But bihar ul anwar is a secondary source. I am looking for original source with full chain of narrators. I hope it will be there in bihar. Thanks again.

I have few questions on this. if you like to answer.

1. If praying for hastening of relief is a great deal then why Abu Basir was rebuked by Imam Jafar Sadiq A.S for the same. “Yes, it does. But you (people) announced it; therefore Allah put it off.” ?

2. Why people during time of 6th Imam were praying for hastening of relief? They have nothing to do with it. Everyone has to recognize Imam of his time. Not Imam of later generations (12th Imam)? According to asna ashri belief.

3. Dont you think "Ajjil farajahum" is also a type of announcement and a way of hastening the matter, which is in contradiction to the narrations in OP?

W.salam wa rehmatullah.

Sorry brother, Such conditions are not mentioned in above narrations.

Following narration clearly says without any condition, that Allah does not become hasty just becuase of the people. This matter will occur when its time will reach. So there is no point in praying Allah to hasten the matter.

“People perished because they hastened this matter (deliverance). Allah does not become hasty just because that people urge on their matters to be achieved. This matter (the appearance of al-Qa'im) has a precise time that it must reach. If it reaches its time, it will occur neither an hour sooner nor an hour later.”

I agree that "You are not a shia unless you obey Allah fully, without personal opinion"

Brother, I am also a shia but not hasty. I am obeying Allah in this matter.

What you say is "more true" if we could put it this way.

And I personally agree with the statement you posted more.

I am not the shia the ahlul bayt call shia yet. Maybe God will give us tawfiq to be so.

As the other posters said it is more of a form of desire.

Similarly we have stages, not every one maybe in the stage of realization you are yet, about this issue.

Similarly we could use this for other instances, where people pray for their desires in the Dua. Allah knows what we want already,and fulfills it in its due time .

Those who have reached a higher realization, do not pray to hasten it, but act and obey to their very best, as acting on knowledge is the best form of showing your desire instead of utterance of the tongue.

They just do what they need to and leave all commands to Allah.As he is wise and all knowing.

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Va alaykom assalam.

Simple answer:

 

2- فی تفسیر العیاشی، أیضا عن الفضل بن أبی قرة قال: سمعت اباعبدالله ع یقول: أوحی الله إلی إبراهیم أنه سیلد لک-فقال لسارة فقالت: أ ألد و أنا عجوز؟ فأوحی الله إلیه: أنها ستلد-و یعذب أولادها أربعمائة سنة بردها الکلام علی-قال: فلما طال علی بنی إسرائیل العذاب-ضجوا و بکوا إلی الله أربعین صباحا-فأوحی الله الی موسی و هارون أن یخلصهم من فرعون-فحط عنهم سبعین و مائة سنة، قال: و قال أبوعبدالله ع: هکذا انتم. لو فعلتم فرج الله عنا فأما إذا لم تکونوا-فإن الأمر ینتهی إلی منتهاه.(البرهان فی تفسیر القرآن، ج3، ص 125؛ بحار الانوار الجامعة لدرر اخبار الائمة الاطهار، ج52، ص 131؛ المیزان فی تفسیرالقرآن، ج10، ص 331)
عیاشی در تفسیر خود از فضل بن ابی قره روایت نموده که گفت: از حضرت صادق علیه السّلام شنیدم می فرمود: خداوند وحی فرستاد به حضرت ابراهیم که بزودی فرزندی برای تو متولد خواهد شد! ابراهیم هم به ساره (همسرش) خبر داد: ساره گفت: من پیرزن هستم! با این وصف خداوند وحی فرستاد به سوی ابراهیم که ساره بزودی فرزندی می آورد و اولادش چهار صد سال گرفتار خواهند بود. آنگاه حضرت فرمود: چون گرفتاری بنی اسرائیل به طول انجامید چهل صبح رو به درگاه الهی آورده به گریه و زاری پرداختند. خدا هم به موسی (و برادرش) هارون وحی فرستاد که (با امداد غیبی) آنها را از شر فرعون نجات دهد و صد و هفتاد سال از چهار سال گرفتاری آنها را برداشت. سپس امام ششم فرمود: همچنین شما اگر مثل بنی اسرائیل در درگاه خداوند به گریه و زاری بپردازید؛ خداوند فرج ما را نزدیک خواهد کرد، اما اگر چنین نباشید، این سختی تا پایان مدتش خواهد رسید.
تذکر: این روایت در منابع ذیل آیات آمده است:
وَ لَقَدْ جَاءَتْ رُسُلُنَا إِبْرَاهِیمَ بِالْبُشْرَى قَالُوا سَلاَماً قَالَ سَلاَمٌ فَمَا لَبِثَ أَنْ جَاءَ بِعِجْلٍ حَنِیذٍ -الی قوله تعالی-وَ أَمْطَرْنَا عَلَیْهَا حِجَارَةً مِنْ سِجِّیلٍ مَنْضُودٍ مُسَوَّمَةً عِنْدَ رَبِّکَ وَ مَا هِیَ مِنَ الظَّالِمِینَ بِبَعِیدٍ [سوره هود، آیه 69-83]
3- وقتی خداوند تصمیم گرفت موسی را مبعوث کند و در امر بنی اسرائیل فرجی قرار دهد، فرعون در خواب دید، آتشی از بیت المقدس پیش آمد تا آنجا که همه خانه های مصر را در بر گرفت و ویران کرد و همه قبطیان آتش گرفتند، امّا بنی اسرائیل سالم ماندند، فرعون با ترس و وحشت ساحران و منجّمین را فرا خواند و رؤیای خود را برای آنها بازگو کرد، آنها گفتند: در میان بنی اسرائیل پسری به وجود می آید که حکومت تو را از بین می برد و تو و قومت را از سرزمینتان بیرون می کند و دین تو را تغییر می دهد و هر آینه زمان تولّد او نزدیک است، پس فرعون دستور داد کلیه نوزادان پسر بنی اسرائیل را به قتل برسانند و فقط دختران آنها را زنده بگذارند.(الکامل، ج1، ص 170؛ مجمع البیان فی تفسیر القرآن، ج1، ص 227؛ تفسیر القرآن الکریم(صدرا)، ج3، ص 350)

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5 minutes ago, Haimi said:

Va alaykom assalam.

Simple answer:

 

2- فی تفسیر العیاشی، أیضا عن الفضل بن أبی قرة قال: سمعت اباعبدالله ع یقول: أوحی الله إلی إبراهیم أنه سیلد لک-فقال لسارة فقالت: أ ألد و أنا عجوز؟ فأوحی الله إلیه: أنها ستلد-و یعذب أولادها أربعمائة سنة بردها الکلام علی-قال: فلما طال علی بنی إسرائیل العذاب-ضجوا و بکوا إلی الله أربعین صباحا-فأوحی الله الی موسی و هارون أن یخلصهم من فرعون-فحط عنهم سبعین و مائة سنة، قال: و قال أبوعبدالله ع: هکذا انتم. لو فعلتم فرج الله عنا فأما إذا لم تکونوا-فإن الأمر ینتهی إلی منتهاه.(البرهان فی تفسیر القرآن، ج3، ص 125؛ بحار الانوار الجامعة لدرر اخبار الائمة الاطهار، ج52، ص 131؛ المیزان فی تفسیرالقرآن، ج10، ص 331)
عیاشی در تفسیر خود از فضل بن ابی قره روایت نموده که گفت: از حضرت صادق علیه السّلام شنیدم می فرمود: خداوند وحی فرستاد به حضرت ابراهیم که بزودی فرزندی برای تو متولد خواهد شد! ابراهیم هم به ساره (همسرش) خبر داد: ساره گفت: من پیرزن هستم! با این وصف خداوند وحی فرستاد به سوی ابراهیم که ساره بزودی فرزندی می آورد و اولادش چهار صد سال گرفتار خواهند بود. آنگاه حضرت فرمود: چون گرفتاری بنی اسرائیل به طول انجامید چهل صبح رو به درگاه الهی آورده به گریه و زاری پرداختند. خدا هم به موسی (و برادرش) هارون وحی فرستاد که (با امداد غیبی) آنها را از شر فرعون نجات دهد و صد و هفتاد سال از چهار سال گرفتاری آنها را برداشت. سپس امام ششم فرمود: همچنین شما اگر مثل بنی اسرائیل در درگاه خداوند به گریه و زاری بپردازید؛ خداوند فرج ما را نزدیک خواهد کرد، اما اگر چنین نباشید، این سختی تا پایان مدتش خواهد رسید.
تذکر: این روایت در منابع ذیل آیات آمده است:
وَ لَقَدْ جَاءَتْ رُسُلُنَا إِبْرَاهِیمَ بِالْبُشْرَى قَالُوا سَلاَماً قَالَ سَلاَمٌ فَمَا لَبِثَ أَنْ جَاءَ بِعِجْلٍ حَنِیذٍ -الی قوله تعالی-وَ أَمْطَرْنَا عَلَیْهَا حِجَارَةً مِنْ سِجِّیلٍ مَنْضُودٍ مُسَوَّمَةً عِنْدَ رَبِّکَ وَ مَا هِیَ مِنَ الظَّالِمِینَ بِبَعِیدٍ [سوره هود، آیه 69-83]
3- وقتی خداوند تصمیم گرفت موسی را مبعوث کند و در امر بنی اسرائیل فرجی قرار دهد، فرعون در خواب دید، آتشی از بیت المقدس پیش آمد تا آنجا که همه خانه های مصر را در بر گرفت و ویران کرد و همه قبطیان آتش گرفتند، امّا بنی اسرائیل سالم ماندند، فرعون با ترس و وحشت ساحران و منجّمین را فرا خواند و رؤیای خود را برای آنها بازگو کرد، آنها گفتند: در میان بنی اسرائیل پسری به وجود می آید که حکومت تو را از بین می برد و تو و قومت را از سرزمینتان بیرون می کند و دین تو را تغییر می دهد و هر آینه زمان تولّد او نزدیک است، پس فرعون دستور داد کلیه نوزادان پسر بنی اسرائیل را به قتل برسانند و فقط دختران آنها را زنده بگذارند.(الکامل، ج1، ص 170؛ مجمع البیان فی تفسیر القرآن، ج1، ص 227؛ تفسیر القرآن الکریم(صدرا)، ج3، ص 350)

Btw this is my first post, so salam there:-)

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5 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Although the name of chapter is "forbidding timing and naming Al-Qaim" as set by the author but above two narrations are not talking about any of the two.

First narration say: delay is due to announcements.

Second one say: Poeple who hastened in this matter were perished. It will occur in its prescribed time.

SInce centuries people are invoking this phrase, but no result. Wait is still going on. All such people are passed away. Dont you think may be the delay is all because of this particular phrase. As its also a type of announcement. So announce it or not, it will make no any difference, its very very clear from above narrations.

Also there are many major signs that will occur before Imam Mahdi a.s, like battle at Mina, disclosure of mountain of gold from Euphrates, Emergence of Sufiyani, An army will perish in Baidah, The emergence of al-A'hraj al-Kindi, Abqa and Ashab, Earth will swallow a village near Damascus, An army with black banners will come from the east etc. All this will happen for sure at its specified time then there will be time of Imam.

Today most shias invoke this phrase, its fine. As it is associated with Imam of their time, according to their belief. But why people of the time of 6th Imam (and of previous Imams) were announcing and hastening for his coming? 

Abu Baseer said to Imam Jafar (6th Imam)

“Does this matter (the appearance of al-Mahdi) not have an end so that we relieve ourselves?”

Were they unaware about concept of Imamat that there will be 12 Imams and the last one will be Al-Qaim and he will also undergo an occultation period. Currently we are in time of 6th Imam, after him there will be 5 more Imams etc.

Where was theory of Imamat (12 Imams) at that time? 

People have been awaiting the Mahdi since the time of the Prophet...ever since he told the people about it. So what is your point brother?

It is true there are major signs for his coming but it is not necessary that all signs are to be fulfilled. No one knows the appointed time or the hour so we ask Allah to hasten it. Had we known that the Mahdi would appear on Date X at time X exactly, then the need of saying the phrase wold not exist. 

The very fact that the datetime is not known is why it should be said.

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On 7/28/2016 at 10:39 PM, shiaman14 said:

People have been awaiting the Mahdi since the time of the Prophet...ever since he told the people about it. So what is your point brother?

It is true there are major signs for his coming but it is not necessary that all signs are to be fulfilled. No one knows the appointed time or the hour so we ask Allah to hasten it. Had we known that the Mahdi would appear on Date X at time X exactly, then the need of saying the phrase wold not exist. 

The very fact that the datetime is not known is why it should be said.

True and there is no any problem in this from Ahlul Sunnah perspective. But from ahle tahasyyu side there are many problems, honestly. Because their creed says directly after Prophet there will be Imams and they will be 12 in number, one after the other. Last of them will be Al-Qaim, who will come before end of time and will fill the earth with justice and will make the Islam dominant over all religions. So if shias were waiting for last Imam during time of 1st or 6th or 8th Imam etc then it raises so many questions against the theory of 12 Imams. While there is no such concept of Mansoos Minallah Imamat among ahlul sunnah people, so their wait for Mahdi is justified. And mostly during the time of Prophet they were asking questions about it, same happened till the martyrdom of Imam Ali. But when big fitnas and wars amongst muslim went on peak, people became more curious about coming of mahdi. History says many people also claimed mahdiaism for Imam Ali and for many members of ahlebayt from progeny of both Imam Hassan a.s and Imam Hussain a.s. Forget about the laymen there, problem is that why even close companions during time of every Imam (Like Abu basir during 6th Imam) were desperately waiting for 12th Imam.

Brother all signs will be fulfilled whichever are reported through authentic ahadith. They are prophecies and miracles of our Prophet s.a.w.w. Many are already fulfilled and more are coming. Allah will never hasten it. All will happen on its prescribed time and date. Narrations in OP are confirming this.

I am not talking about date and time. Imam Jafar a.s categorically denied in other narration that we don’t time this event. While other narrations say due to your announcements (Imam was pointing towards him close companion) Allah put it off.

 

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17 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

why even close companions during time of every Imam (Like Abu basir during 6th Imam) were desperately waiting for 12th Imam.

Shias knew that there would be 12 Imams and they were waiting for all of the Imams AS. The closest companions of the Imams AS always asked, paraphrasing, After you who should be followed? and each Imam AS gave reply to those who were trusted. 

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17 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Allah will never hasten it. All will happen on its prescribed time and date. Narrations in OP are confirming this.

Did you read my post above? The hadith provided by Sister Sumayyeh in the Salawat topic says that the 6th Imam AS asked us to pray for the hastening of the Relief, the return of the 12th Imam AJ. 

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56 minutes ago, hameedeh said:

Did you read my post above? The hadith provided by Sister Sumayyeh in the Salawat topic says that the 6th Imam AS asked us to pray for the hastening of the Relief, the return of the 12th Imam AJ. 

Assalamo aleykom.

Hes definitly a sunny or something then, or he did read the sunnies resources

Visited alot of them that they had one overall attribute and Common feature and that's: they AVOID Quran or reading half of it just like that.

Once again try to read those verses and the story that happened about musa a.s and its clan, ibrahim and how his wife had a child, musa and the time when its clan worshiped the cow, why that's happened.

He even didn't read my post about it, did you bro? ya fahad

Enshallah you will find your path.

Wassalam.

P.S: If you srsly need help on that matter, and if you're really seeking the truth and knowledge, then i can help you on that issue and telling you what's your issue exactly. You also need a prerequisites such as philosophy and elm alkalam.

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I know this is kinda oftopic but how will Al-Mahdi a.s. or Isa a.s. return change the state of a believer?

I never understood this. In the end it is about the individual, his beliefs and his deeds.

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On ‎28‎-‎7‎-‎2016 at 2:13 PM, Fahad Sani said:

Brother, I am also a shia but not hasty. I am obeying Allah in this matter.

What does the term Shia mean to you? Do you believe in Imamate? Are you a political Shia as Imam Abu Hanifa was or are you maybe a Shia of Uthman?


 

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Absolutely he's not a shia. Something's wrong. Reconsider brother.

Try to read the foundations books of islam.

a true shia doesn't look like that.

Maybe you say that my words are harsh but im trying to give you a clean sight. Exactly like how i do for my family.

Regard.

 

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7 hours ago, hameedeh said:

Shias knew that there would be 12 Imams and they were waiting for all of the Imams AS. The closest companions of the Imams AS always asked, paraphrasing, After you who should be followed? and each Imam AS gave reply to those who were trusted. 

It means they (asna ashri shias) only knew there would be 12 Imams but they have no idea who will be the next Imam after the present one. Or we can say there were no narrations with names of 12 Imams from Prophet s.a.w.w.  That's why when Imam was asked he gave reply to those who were trusted.

But problem is when, they asked from 5th or 6th Imam about the coming of 12th Imam (bypassing and neglecting the fact that he will come after the 11th Imam and will be his son). Not only this but they were eagerly waiting for 12th one. If current Imam was there and guiding them properly then why they were so much desperate about the last one?

And instead of teaching them correct belief of 12 Imams (i.e everyone has to recognize only Imam of his time, I am the 6th Imam, after me there will be 5 more Imams, for whom you are asking and waiting will be the last one (12th), so dont be hasty), Imam Jafar a.s said the following to one of his most trusted companion Abu Basir.

I said to Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (as): “Does this matter (the appearance of al-Mahdi) not have an end so that we relieve ourselves?” He said: “Yes, it does. But you (people) announced it; therefore Allah put it off.”  

Why was so much emphasis on 12th Imam? When already there was theory of 12 Imams?

 

7 hours ago, hameedeh said:

Did you read my post above? The hadith provided by Sister Sumayyeh in the Salawat topic says that the 6th Imam AS asked us to pray for the hastening of the Relief, the return of the 12th Imam AJ. 

Lets compare.

1) Imam Sadegh AS said: Pray for the hastening of relief (Faraj) a great deal, for this is your Faraj. (Biharal Anwar, volume 53, page 183)

2) Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (as) had said when the (Abbasid) rulers had been mentioned before him: “People perished because they hastened this matter (deliverance). Allah does not become hasty just because that people urge on their matters to be achieved. This matter (the appearance of al-Qa'im) has a precise time that it must reach. If it reaches its time, it will occur neither an hour sooner nor an hour later.” (Biharul Anwar, vol.52 p.118)

Narration of faraj is not so explicit. May be the faraj (which is translated as relief here) is something else not the last Imam. While other narration is very clearly talking about Al-qaim (12th Imam), that it has a precise time which must reach. Allah does not become hasty just because people urge. Here Imam is categorically denying the possiblity of hastening the matter.

How will you reconcile both these reports from same Imam. They are clearly contradictory.

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On 7/28/2016 at 7:18 PM, Haimi said:

Btw this is my first post, so salam there:-)

W.salam. And sorry borther for late acknowledgement.

Thanks, you made your first post for me :-)

7 hours ago, Haimi said:

Assalamo aleykom.

Hes definitly a sunny or something then, or he did read the sunnies resources

Visited alot of them that they had one overall attribute and Common feature and that's: they AVOID Quran or reading half of it just like that.

Once again try to read those verses and the story that happened about musa a.s and its clan, ibrahim and how his wife had a child, musa and the time when its clan worshiped the cow, why that's happened.

He even didn't read my post about it, did you bro? ya fahad

Enshallah you will find your path.

Wassalam.

P.S: If you srsly need help on that matter, and if you're really seeking the truth and knowledge, then i can help you on that issue and telling you what's your issue exactly. You also need a prerequisites such as philosophy and elm alkalam.

W.salam again.

Brother I read both shia and sunni resources and my main source to verify the narrations is Quran. How can you surely say for me that I am neglecting the Quran. Its just your assumption.

And Whats the relation b/w those stories of Prophets with 12th Imam? I have seen your post but I dont understand persian language properly. You wrote there "simple answer" but actually it was really hard to understand.

6 hours ago, Faruk said:

I know this is kinda oftopic but how will Al-Mahdi a.s. or Isa a.s. return change the state of a believer?

I never understood this. In the end it is about the individual, his beliefs and his deeds.

Read this chapter, I am sure this will clear some of your doubts. This is perhaps the first book that was written about 12th Imam. https://www.al-islam.org/kitab-al-ghayba-book-occultation-sheikh-an-numani/chapter-21-shia-when-al-qaim-appears

6 hours ago, Faruk said:

What does the term Shia mean to you? Do you believe in Imamate? Are you a political Shia as Imam Abu Hanifa was or are you maybe a Shia of Uthman?


 

Term shia simply means follower or party/group. And both in the quran and hadith it is used in this meaning. Same term was also used for dajjal's followers in hadith.

I dont believe in mansoos minallah imamate concept as asna ashri shias believe. And its not necessary to beleive in such concept to be a shia.

No, I am not a political shia only. I am shia of Ali a.s, following him both politically and religiously.

I am just shia of ahlebayt, neither twelver not fiver nor sevener nor anyother type. Same way as Ibrahim a.s was shia (follower) of Nooh a.s.

 وَإِنَّ مِنْ شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْرَاهِيمَ
Verily among those who followed his Way was Abraham. [Saafat:83]

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

W.salam. And sorry borther for late acknowledgement.

Thanks, you made your first post for me :-)

W.salam again.

Brother I read both shia and sunni resources and my main source to verify the narrations is Quran. How can you surely say for me that I am neglecting the Quran. Its just your assumption.

And Whats the relation b/w those stories of Prophets with 12th Imam? I have seen your post but I dont understand persian language properly. You wrote there "simple answer" but actually it was really hard to understand.

Read this chapter, I am sure this will clear some of your doubts. This is perhaps the first book that was written about 12th Imam. https://www.al-islam.org/kitab-al-ghayba-book-occultation-sheikh-an-numani/chapter-21-shia-when-al-qaim-appears

Term shia simply means follower or party/group. And both in the quran and hadith it is used in this meaning. Same term was also used for dajjal's followers in hadith.

I dont believe in mansoos minallah imamate concept as asna ashri shias believe. And its not necessary to beleive in such concept to be a shia.

No, I am not a political shia only. I am shia of Ali a.s, following him both politically and religiously.

I am just shia of ahlebayt, neither twelver not fiver nor sevener nor anyother type. Same way as Ibrahim a.s was shia (follower) of Nooh a.s.

 وَإِنَّ مِنْ شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْرَاهِيمَ
Verily among those who followed his Way was Abraham. [Saafat:83]

And in what way are you diffirent from Sunni?

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3 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

W.salam. And sorry borther for late acknowledgement.

Thanks, you made your first post for me :-)

W.salam again.

Brother I read both shia and sunni resources and my main source to verify the narrations is Quran. How can you surely say for me that I am neglecting the Quran. Its just your assumption.

And Whats the relation b/w those stories of Prophets with 12th Imam? I have seen your post but I dont understand persian language properly. You wrote there "simple answer" but actually it was really hard to understand.

Va aleykom assalam va rahmatullah.

You don't need to say sorry its fine.

ofc it's my assumption because I'm expert in such stuff. Guess that I'm like a scholar.

If you did read the quran and sunny  & shia resources still doesn't mean that you missed quran, still you missed half of the subject by reading half of it imo.

and yes since you didn't mention in what language you wanted the answer, so i gave an arabic answer with Persian translation. The main source of arabic words is important, trust me and since i noticed we've a lot of persian people in here, though maybe it's gonna be a good idea to involving them too.

The point of that kind of answer was: so you can search on your own, i gave you the bullet so you just need to shout it.

And trust me isn't that hard to understand the quran because:

وَ لَقَدْ يَسَّرْنَا الْقُرْآنَ لِلذِّكْرِ فَهَلْ مِنْ مُدَّكِر

Let me know in what language you're fine to understand and also let me know exactly what kind of answer do you want.

Vassalamo aleykom and thank you for the posts.

Regards

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2 hours ago, Faruk said:

And in what way are you diffirent from Sunni?

I am shia with manhaj of Ahlul Sunnah. But I dont follow any of them in everything. Neither all shias are on same page in every matter nor the sunnies. Niether shias are wrong all the time not sunnies are correct all the time. Neither all shias are rafzi nor every sunni is nasibi. Both have many differences/disputes even among themselves. I follow what is explicit and clear in Quran and Sunnah of Prophet s.a.w.w, keeping my emotions/desires aside. In the field of knowledge/evidences there is no value of emotions.

Some of major differences.

That I consider Muawiya bin Abu Sufiyan not a guided one. He was a cruel ruler. To me he was just a muslim and a sahabi (because he spent some years with Prophet). Allah will decide his destiny. Also I dont defend him for the things he did, like majority of sunnies do (not all).

That I consider Yazib bin Muawiya a cursed one. I dont defend him at all in any manner, like some salafis do.

That I dont consider myself part of any group, like deaobandi, Brelvi, Ahle Hadith, Salafi, sufi etc.

That I dont follow any scholar blindly. I respect all those whose belief of Tawheed is atleast correct as per Quran and authentic ahadith. Among twelvers my fvrt is Shaikh Sadooq r.a. His work is really worth reading.

That I dont consider all of sahabah to be in jannah without any accountability, except emmigrants and helpers. Prophet said only 70,000 from my ummah will directly go to Jannah.

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Assalamo aleykom.

Sorry brother but sadly you miss a lot of things that takes time to fix it and put them together. You're not just like a normal man who needs an answer instead you've too many bad sectors of islam.

That's like devoloping & reconstruct an old & big building.

Personally i feel that I'm wasting time to continuing this matter bcz i feel that you playing a game instead of a religious conversation, Forgive me if I'm wrong.

Vassalam.

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21 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Among twelvers my fvrt is Shaikh Sadooq r.a. His work is really worth reading.

Subhanallah. Your favourite one is sheykh sadoq r.a but you missed his imams tells/says.

See? that's how i said you're acting weird.

And trust me since you can't understand arabic or persian, then it takes centuries to know the entire scholars and their researchs, except if you're a true shia with many teachers + scholar plus self prerequisites.

Give a real reason to your Target for a man to man convesation.

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33 minutes ago, Haimi said:

Va aleykom assalam va rahmatullah.

You don't need to say sorry its fine.

ofc it's my assumption because I'm expert in such stuff. Guess that I'm like a scholar.

If you did read the quran and sunny  & shia resources still doesn't mean that you missed quran, still you missed half of the subject by reading half of it imo.

and yes since you didn't mention in what language you wanted the answer, so i gave an arabic answer with Persian translation. The main source of arabic words is important, trust me and since i noticed we've a lot of persian people in here, though maybe it's gonna be a good idea to involving them too.

The point of that kind of answer was: so you can search on your own, i gave you the bullet so you just need to shout it.

And trust me isn't that hard to understand the quran because:

وَ لَقَدْ يَسَّرْنَا الْقُرْآنَ لِلذِّكْرِ فَهَلْ مِنْ مُدَّكِر

Let me know in what language you're fine to understand and also let me know exactly what kind of answer do you want.

Vassalamo aleykom and thank you for the posts.

Regards

You are welcome dear brother in Islam. And thanks for your concern and useful answers.

I agree with you totally in whatever you said regarding Quran.

I think everyone here on SC understand english language, so it would be better for all if you share english translation along with arabic text. 

And what is your response on question in OP? Then we will discuss In sha Allah.

2 minutes ago, Haimi said:

Assalamo aleykom.

Sorry brother but sadly you miss a lot of things that takes time to fix it and put them together. You're not just like a normal man who needs an answer instead you've too many bad sectors of islam.

That's like devoloping & reconstruct an old & big building.

Personally i feel that I'm wasting time to continuing this matter bcz i feel that you playing a game instead of a religious conversation, Forgive me if I'm wrong.

Vassalam.

W.salam wa rehmatullah,

I think, you have assumed many things about me.

Lots of things? like

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47 minutes ago, Haimi said:

Subhanallah. Your favourite one is sheykh sadoq r.a but you missed his imams tells/says.

See? that's how i said you're acting weird.

And trust me since you can't understand arabic or persian, then it takes centuries to know the entire scholars and their researchs, except if you're a true shia with many teachers + scholar plus self prerequisites.

Give a real reason to your Target for a man to man convesation.

Among all the twelver shia scholars I read his work more, whatever is available in languages that I understand. And fvrt doesnt mean I follow him or accept his verdicts/understanding in everything. Sorry but I am not a blind follower of any scholar, whether shia or sunni. Absolute authority is only Quran and Sunnah.

And also I dont want to understand any scholar fully. Its not needed at all. We have to follow Quran and Sunnah. And if we think wisely we can do this ourself without help of any scholar. If we do ijtehad we will be rewarded more rather than being a muqalid of any scholar/marja.

 

Lets stick to the original topic in OP. If you want, I am not forcing.

W.salam wa rehmatullah.

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

I am shia with manhaj of Ahlul Sunnah. But I dont follow any of them in everything. Neither all shias are on same page in every matter nor the sunnies. Niether shias are wrong all the time not sunnies are correct all the time. Neither all shias are rafzi nor every sunni is nasibi. Both have many differences/disputes even among themselves. I follow what is explicit and clear in Quran and Sunnah of Prophet s.a.w.w, keeping my emotions/desires aside. In the field of knowledge/evidences there is no value of emotions.

Some of major differences.

That I consider Muawiya bin Abu Sufiyan not a guided one. He was a cruel ruler. To me he was just a muslim and a sahabi (because he spent some years with Prophet). Allah will decide his destiny. Also I dont defend him for the things he did, like majority of sunnies do (not all).

That I consider Yazib bin Muawiya a cursed one. I dont defend him at all in any manner, like some salafis do.

That I dont consider myself part of any group, like deaobandi, Brelvi, Ahle Hadith, Salafi, sufi etc.

That I dont follow any scholar blindly. I respect all those whose belief of Tawheed is atleast correct as per Quran and authentic ahadith. Among twelvers my fvrt is Shaikh Sadooq r.a. His work is really worth reading.

That I dont consider all of sahabah to be in jannah without any accountability, except emmigrants and helpers. Prophet said only 70,000 from my ummah will directly go to Jannah.

There were diffirent categories of muslims:

1) Ahl al-Bayt a.s. (Imam Ali a.s. was part of this category)

2) Sahaba

Sahaba is also 2 categories:

1) Sabiqun (Muhajirin & Ansar, those who participated in battles and performed hijra and sheltered the Muhajirin)

2) The Tulaqa (Those who became muslims under amnesty after the Opening of Mecca. Muawiyyah was part of this category).

Don't mix up these categories and think they are all one and the same.

Even the Sahaba themselves considered these diffirent categories to be a part of their reality and lived according to it. 

This meritocracy influenced their choices, their thoughts and view about leadership. It decided which side to choose in inter-muslim wars and appointment of caliphacy, etcetera.

Last of all,

There is the hadith about Amr Ibn Yasser being killed by a band of thugs which was Muawiyya's and the hadith that anyone who hated Imam Ali a.s. is a hypocrit.

What isn't clear to you about the status of Muawiyyah?
 

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16 hours ago, Faruk said:

There were diffirent categories of muslims:

1) Ahl al-Bayt a.s. (Imam Ali a.s. was part of this category)

2) Sahaba

Sahaba is also 2 categories:

1) Sabiqun (Muhajirin & Ansar, those who participated in battles and performed hijra and sheltered the Muhajirin)

2) The Tulaqa (Those who became muslims under amnesty after the Opening of Mecca. Muawiyyah was part of this category).

Don't mix up these categories and think they are all one and the same.

Even the Sahaba themselves considered these diffirent categories to be a part of their reality and lived according to it. 

This meritocracy influenced their choices, their thoughts and view about leadership. It decided which side to choose in inter-muslim wars and appointment of caliphacy, etcetera.

Last of all,

There is the hadith about Amr Ibn Yasser being killed by a band of thugs which was Muawiyya's and the hadith that anyone who hated Imam Ali a.s. is a hypocrit.

What isn't clear to you about the status of Muawiyyah?
 

Agreed. Neither all sahabah are equal in rank nor all members of ahlebayt. Categories of sahabah are mentioned in Quran, Taubah 100-102.

Yes there are plenty of ahadith against Muawiya. But I dont call him neither disbeliever nor hypocrite. Also I dont abuse/curse him. But I admit and narrate his mistakes/sins openly. Because Imam Ali a.s himself did not call anyone who rebelled against him as kafir or mushrik or munafiq etc.

Would you like to be part of this discussion?

 

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Saying "Ajjil Farajahum" is a mandatory part for me. It indicates the realization of a person on the necessity of Imamate. Isn't an Imam, a true caliph appointed from God, the one necessity of our times? Something that will set all matters straight? For this dunya, for the self, the ummah and all men and women living on it there can be no better prayer. It is so necessary. We all must reflect and realize that and pray for reappearance.

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Dude, that's cool and all you read Sheikh Saduq and I appreciate your open mind. Before I reply to your comment about what you were asking about 12 Imams, Idk how you can consider Muawiyya a Muslim when he fought the Imam of his time, started the cursing of Imam Ali (as) on the pulpit, and prayed Juma prayer on Wednesdays and so on. Anyways AhlulSunnah believes in 12 Imams too so idk how you haven't come across that in your research:

Narrated Jabir ibn Samura: I heard the Prophet (s) saying: "There will be Twelve Commanders." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, the Prophet added, "All of them will be from Quraysh."[Sahih al-Bukhari (English), Hadith: 9.329, Kitabul Ahkam; Sahih al-Bukhari, (Arabic), 4:165, Kitabul Ahkam]
The Prophet (s) said: "The Religion (Islam) will continue until the Hour (Day of Resurrection), having Twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh." [Sahih Muslim, (English), Chapter DCCLIV, v3, p1010, Tradition #4483; Sahih Muslim (Arabic), Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Saudi Arabian Edition, v3, p1453, Tradition #10]

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1 minute ago, Brahim said:

Dude, that's cool and all you read Sheikh Saduq and I appreciate your open mind. Before I reply to your comment about what you were asking about 12 Imams, Idk how you can consider Muawiyya a Muslim when he fought the Imam of his time, started the cursing of Imam Ali (as) on the pulpit, and prayed Juma prayer on Wednesdays and so on. Anyways AhlulSunnah believes in 12 Imams too so idk how you haven't come across that in your research:

Narrated Jabir ibn Samura: I heard the Prophet (s) saying: "There will be Twelve Commanders." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, the Prophet added, "All of them will be from Quraysh."[Sahih al-Bukhari (English), Hadith: 9.329, Kitabul Ahkam; Sahih al-Bukhari, (Arabic), 4:165, Kitabul Ahkam]
The Prophet (s) said: "The Religion (Islam) will continue until the Hour (Day of Resurrection), having Twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh." [Sahih Muslim, (English), Chapter DCCLIV, v3, p1010, Tradition #4483; Sahih Muslim (Arabic), Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Saudi Arabian Edition, v3, p1453, Tradition #10]

Ya takfiri sabrak sabrak

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Salam ppl are actually weird 

What s wrong in praying for imams earlier appearance what's wrong for praying his salamati

I really don't understand what's wrong wid ppl 

Someone said about realisations as well 

That's ri8

A person along with praying must also act that yes we are shia and we r waiting for our imam 

But along with it we can pray as wellwell

Why ppl are askiing proofs from Quran about things which really has nothing to do with them 

I mean dude nobody has to do anything with the prayer except Allah who will listen to prayer and the person seeking for prayer

Why the hell third parties are poking noses in middle of this and for proof really

I mean if u are son or daughter of so and so should I come and ask u for the proof from quranQuran

If u are expecting ur dearest friend or relative or friend at ur place off course u will make best preparations but along with thatthat u will have a desire inside that the expected person comes earlier and earlIAR in spite of knowing that hehe will come on a fixed time

So will u go and search in Quran that I am  wishing for the expected deareeat friend to come up early is it ri8 does Quran says

And if ur wife is expecting a child 

U know ur child will come in 9 months 

Then will u just leave it as it is 

U will pray u will prepare for child

And at the last stage in 9th month u will wish that the child comes up as early as possible

Why don't we question on these inherent nature of man why don't we be inquisitive abt it and ask for proofs

Am sorry if am hurting anyone here but I stand with my opinion

Ty

May Allah bless us to become true shia we all are striving hard to become a shia of ahlulbait as

May Allah keep my imam AJTF safe and sendsend him earlier

Lastly few lines of a poet assuming that Ppl here understands Hindi and Urdu

Duaa Kro k zahuur e imam ajtf hojaye Ye roz roz ka kissa tamam jojaye.....[2]

Ali as Ki tegh se johar khule zamane par 

Tamam duniya ho 1 sher k nishaney PR

Ho sari khalke khuda maut k dahaney PR...(2)

Jo gaib me hai WO zahir imam hojaye 

Ye roz roz ka kissa tamam hojaye

Dua kro........

              ...thankful to be shia ...

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