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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Assalam O Alaikum, wa Rehmatullah wa Barakatuhu,

Dear brothers and sisters, what are your views on this? To whom do you support/follow in this regard? Ammar Nakshawani or Kamal al-Haydari? What is your belief about?

Who compiled the Quran and arranged the surahs and the verses within the surahs, as we have today in the present Quran.

 

 


Main points from both above videos are compared in following video. [Please ignore the person/group and their comments/conclusions, who has made this video. Just focus on what scholars are saying]

 

 

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:bismillah:

:ws:

The people who create these video's have a good tendency to quote out of context or distort ideas and take one clip out of an entire lecture which may or may not be representative.

May Allah thwart the efforts made by the owner of the channel [ i know you asked us not to focus on that, but it is relevant due to the above point i made].

I solemnly advise anyone, a sunni or a shia, not to regard that youtube channel as a means to learn about shia Islam. It is based on batil, quoting out of context, or quoting others - in other videos- we shia's consider deviated ourselves. 

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12 minutes ago, laithAlIRAQI said:

I can't stand that anti Shia YouTube channel...

Do not forget to make a dua for Allah azwj to condemn the owners and undo their efforts. 

This is an open request for all: remember to ask Allah azwj earnestly to condemn the owners of that channel (the majoos) and thwart their efforts to ridicule our madhab.

Do not spread their videos - you will give them valuable backlinks. Do not post their video's on shiachat, do not even say the name of the channel or give them any publicity whatsoever. Ignore them.

 

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6 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Dear brothers and sisters, what are your views on this? To whom do you support/follow in this regard? Ammar Nakshawani or Kamal al-Haydari? What is your belief about?

Who compiled the Quran and arranged the surahs and the verses within the surahs, as we have today in the present Quran.

I have already have answered you umpteen times, but in your copy/paste you are not a good reader.

Both Syed Ammar and Ayatollah Kamal are correct. Here is what I have posted before:

 

On 7/8/2016 at 7:34 PM, GreatChineseFall said:

I didn't think one can be more clear. I guess I am missing something, would you mind explaining?

 

Quote

Yes, you are missing everything. We Shia consider that the Holy Prophet is:

1. Noor and first creation. Created much, much before Adam.

2. He was born Prophet at birth and he announced his Prophet-hood at age 40.

3. Allah had given him Full Ilum-Ghaib.

4. He was given the FULL QURAN on birth. Sura Laylatul Qadr confirming that the Holy Prophet was given FULL QURAN. According, to Sunni the Angels were given the FULL QURAN in Bait al-Izdha, this is not according to the Holy Prophet but according to Abdullah bin Abbas.

5. According to verses in Holy Quran, the Quran was revealed piece meal on the Holy Prophet over 23 years.

6. Prophet was praying in Mecca before the Salat become wajib, doing wudu and facing the Qibla before these verses were revealed.

 

So, the Holy Prophet advised Imam Ali that his rights will be upsurged and the Prophet knew how will Usman will put the Quran in non-chronological order to hide the Wilayah of Imam Ali. Nothing new here.

 

Do you remember your answer. The TRUTH was in between.

Edited by BornShia

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@laithAlIRAQI @Tawheed313

Salam brothers. I respect your protest against that channel. Also I am not a blind follower of that channel, I just take references from it and verify myself. But trust me this particular video is not out of context. I have also added the original videos of both scholars. Need your response. Jazak Allah Khairan.

 

@BornShia

18 hours ago, BornShia said:

Both Syed Ammar and Ayatollah Kamal are correct. Here is what I have posted before:

 

This thread is about this particular question only.

Who compiled the Quran and arranged the surahs and the verses within the surahs, as we have today in the present Quran.

How both are true? They are totally opposite in their beliefs.

Kamal Haydari is saying with references from shia books that: Arrangement of surahs and verses within each surah is tauqeefi meaning as per orders of Prophet s.a.w.w as prescribed/authorized by Allah. And the copy of Quran we have today has same arrangements as instructed by Prophet s.a.w.w during his lifetime.

Ammar Nakshawani is saying without any authentic evidence that: It was Ali a.s who compiled the Quran as per orders of Prophet s.a.w.w after his departure from this world. We need that Quran etc.

Watch all videos very carefully. Its not a simple matter as might be you are thinking.

Edited by Fahad Sani

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

Who compiled the Quran and arranged the surahs and the verses within the surahs, as we have today in the present Quran.

Again, you are not a good reader. You have an agenda, so you never read. Here is what I posted above. Open your eyes and read it this time.

19 hours ago, BornShia said:

So, the Holy Prophet advised Imam Ali that his rights will be upsurged and the Prophet knew how will Usman will put the Quran in non-chronological order to hide the Wilayah of Imam Ali. Nothing new here.

Get it. Did you read it this time. The Holy Quran you and I have in our house is complied by none other than Usman. The Holy Quran complied by Imam Ali (as) was in chronological order with tafsir, in Classical (Quranic) Arabic, and was rejected by none other than abu Bakr.

The Holy Quran complied by Usman was in old, old and modern Arabic. It lacked dots for letters such as, "n", "t", "b" and so forth. It also lacked the Arabic diacritics. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_diacritics

It was Imam Ali (as) who created a group of students during his Caliphate to ensure the Holy Quran complied by Usman is properly converted into Classical (Quranic) Arabic and with dots for the letters. He put in charge one of his student called, abu Aswad.

You can read you Bukhari to find out that Imam Ali (as) used to sit with Rasool Allah Mohammad (saws) and write for hours. It is reported in Bukhari that our mother Aisha used to get jealous about it. This is one of the many reasons she used to hate Amir al-Moumeneen, as he used to take her time away from Rasool Allah.

Get yourself away from hadiths, hadiths, and first learn the History of Islam and History of the Holy Quran.

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Salam Alykom

I asked the question on Sayed Ammar Nakshawani's Facebook page, and as expected, he didn't mean that the Quran we have today is different and corrupted. He believes like other Shi'a scholars that the Quran was compiled during the lifetime of the Prophet S.A.W. It's true that narrations tells us that Imam Ali A.S compiled the Quran as well, however the only difference was that his is said to contain tafsir, that's what Sayyed Ammar was referring to. Not that Imam Ali A.S had a completely different Quran, and that today's is corrupted (staghfurallah).

 

Who Compiled the Qur’an?

In the previous hadith, what draw our attention are the words of the Archangel Gabriel to the Prophet at the time of the revelation of the final Qur’anic verse:

Place them at the head of the 280th verse of the second chapter.

It is then clear that Allah (through the Angel Gabriel) commanded the Prophet (S) to compile the Qur’an and to organise its structure in a precise manner even as far as the numbering of the verses. This the Prophet indeed did during his life as Allah had ordered and it was not for the Prophet (S) to leave the Qur’an disparate so that someone after him should compile it.

It is not possible that the Prophet (S) with his great concern and endeavour in preserving the Qur’an should neglect the task of compiling and structuring it and leave the Qur’an scattered amongst the Muslims and delegate the task of compiling it to them. This especially so after revelation had informed him:

{You are mortal and they are mortals.}12

It is not possible that the Prophet (S) could be deeply concerned with the Qur’an on the one hand so that he would order that it should be memorised and paid attention to, and encourage its recital and the practice of its tenets particularly in his final days. He would say repeatedly:

‘I leave behind me two momentous things - the book of Allah and my kin, the people of my household. As long as you adhere to them both you will never go astray after me ever.’13

It is not right that he would do this and at the same time fail to compile the Qur’an and by doing so leave it scattered. 

How is it conceivable that Allah should permit His Prophet (S) not to compile that Qur’an despite having said in the Qur’an:

{It is our duty to compile it and recite it.}14

Allah also says: {We have sent down the Reminder and We shall be its protectors.}15

It is therefore the duty of the Prophet (S) to deliver the Qur’an as a structured whole to all people as compiled and structured by Allah. 

 

Therefore, the Qur’an that we have possession of today with all its structure and compilation, the numbering of its verses, and the structure of its chapters and sections is the very same Qur’an that the Prophet Muhammad (S) gathered, collated, compiled and structured for Muslims during his life at the instigation of Allah. It has not been subject to any change or corruption, substitution or modification, addition or subtraction.

Support for this comes from a report in the exegesis of ‘Ali Ibn Ibrahim16 from Imam al-Saadiq (a)17 that the Messenger of Allah (S) ordered ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib (a) to collect the Qur’an saying:

Oh ‘Ali. The Qur’an is behind my bed, in scrolls, silk and papers. Take it and collate it and do not lose it as the Jews have lost the Torah.’ Thereupon Imam ‘Ali (a) took it and gathered it in a yellow garment and sealed it up.18

This report indicates that the Prophet (S) ordered that the Qur’an be collected and that Imam ‘Ali (a) was the one who collected it on the direct orders of the Prophet (S) during his lifetime.

Similarly, all Shi’a jurists agree on this point. In the Qur’anic exegesis Majma’ al-Bayan, al-Sayyid al-Murtada is quoted as saying that the Qur’an was compiled during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah (S) in the form that we are in possession of today. The evidence for this is that the Qur’an was studied and learnt by heart at that time as a whole so that a group of companions were chosen to memorise it. It was also shown to the Prophet (S) and recited in front of him. A group of the companions like ‘Abdullah ibn Mas’oud and Ubayy ibn Ka’b and others recited the Qur’an from beginning to end in front of the Prophet (S) a number of times all of which indicates that it was in a gathered and structured form and not disparate and scattered. The same was said by Sheikh al-Mufid, Sheikh al-Sadouq and other Shi’a scholars before the time of al-Murtada, and others after him like al- Tusi and the great Qur’anic exegete al-Tabari who died in 548 A.H. as well as all of our other great scholars up to the present day.

Zaid ibn Thabit is reported as having said: 'We used to collect the fragments of the verses of the Qur’an and put them in their appropriate places at the instruction of the Messenger of Allah (S). Despite this, the verses were still fragmented so the Prophet (S) ordered ‘Ali (a) to gather them in one place and warned us against losing them.

It is reported that al-Sha’bi said: 'The Qur’an was collected during the time of the Prophet of Allah (S) by six men of the Ansar.

In al-Sirat al-Mustaqim, Anas says: 'Four men collected the Qur’an during the life of the Prophet (S) those being my father, Mu’adh, Zaid (Ibn Thabit), and Abu Zaid.19

Qatada is reported as having said: 'I asked Anas about who compiled the Qur’an during the lifetime of the prophet (S). He said Four men of the Ansar, then mentioned their names.

Also related from Anas: The Prophet (S) died, four men having collected the Qur’an: Abu Darda’, Mu’adh ibn Jabal, Zaid ibn Thabit, and Abu Zaid.20

Finally from ‘Ali ibn Ribah: ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib (a) collected the Qur’an along with Ubayy ibn Ka’b during the lifetime of the Prophet (S).’ 

 

Feel free to read more here: http://www.imamshirazi.com/pdf/the quran when was it.pdf

And Allah SWT knows best!

 

Salam

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On 7/27/2016 at 8:36 PM, BornShia said:

I have already have answered you umpteen times, but in your copy/paste you are not a good reader.

Both Syed Ammar and Ayatollah Kamal are correct. Here is what I have posted before:

 

 

Do you remember your answer. The TRUTH was in between.

Why I am dragged into this?

Thanks for reminding though as it shiachat just went down after that.

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Dr Ammar is saying that the Quran of Imam Ali (a.s) is in chronological order which again is a HUGE PROBLEM, because that would totally mess things up in the Quran. The Ayat would be in wrong places also. That would mean that the Quran we have today is the confusing Quran and the one Imam Ali (a s) is the correct one. According to Kamal Haidary he says that the Order was the same as today and those who believe otherwise are IGNORANT. 

What makes more logical sense ? 

Of course Kamal Haidary but again, Sayed Ammar might have changed his mind by now. The Quran we have today is the same EXACT one from 1400 years. If you believe others wise then you have believed against Allah and his Promise. 

 

Peace 

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On 7/27/2016 at 9:11 AM, uponthesunnah said:

Do not forget to make a dua for Allah azwj to condemn the owners and undo their efforts. 

This is an open request for all: remember to ask Allah azwj earnestly to condemn the owners of that channel (the majoos) and thwart their efforts to ridicule our madhab.

Do not spread their videos - you will give them valuable backlinks. Do not post their video's on shiachat, do not even say the name of the channel or give them any publicity whatsoever. Ignore them.

 

brother which channel are you talking about?

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On 7/27/2016 at 8:41 AM, Fahad Sani said:

Assalam O Alaikum, wa Rehmatullah wa Barakatuhu,

Dear brothers and sisters, what are your views on this? To whom do you support/follow in this regard? Ammar Nakshawani or Kamal al-Haydari? What is your belief about?

Who compiled the Quran and arranged the surahs and the verses within the surahs, as we have today in the present Quran.

 

 


Main points from both above videos are compared in following video. [Please ignore the person/group and their comments/conclusions, who has made this video. Just focus on what scholars are saying]

 

 

 

On 7/27/2016 at 11:21 AM, S.M.H.A. said:

I am so confused about Shia and Sunni! 

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