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In the Name of God بسم الله

An example of hadith fabrication

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7 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

Our sunni brothers have a very idealistic perception of the companions in general, and the generation after them, and the generation after them. I personally believe they ignore the reality that was Arab tribalism, long held fueds, political corruption, family ties, example after example of deceit, and paint all of the companions as virtuious and above any criticism. We shia's love and revere many of the Sahaba. We don't consider them as one block or embodied in one person. Every single sahaba was a human, not a super-human. They were like any large body or group of human beings.

If i criticise one ahlus-sunnah sheikh , am i criticising all the sheikhs ? If i criticise one American, am i abusing all of the Americans? The idealistic vision of the companions, where by even having a view and disagreeing with one of them is tantamount to villifying all of them is frankly, (and with all due respect)  unacademic and illogical.

There was an Ummayd rift with the Banu Hashim, from the time of the Prophet Muhammed s.a.w , to the time of the caliphs, in paticular the third one, who was from the banu ummayah, to his death and the subsequent wars waged on Ali a.s , and the widespread propaganda that he was not dealing justly to avenge the death of the banu-ummayah caliph (the third one), to the time of Muawiyah and his son Yazid and a number of other Banu Ummayad caliphs in their dynasty. This was followed by the time of the Abbasids, who were also brutal and had their own political agendas.

I am going to touch on two ahadith which are clear-cut fabrications

The following is a Saheeh hadith (by their standards) narrated by Ammar bin Al As:

Narrated 'Amr bin Al-'As: that he said to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ): "Who is the most beloved of the people to you?" He said: "'Aishah." He said: "From the men?" He said: "Her Father."
 
Also another hadith in Bukhari from Ammar bin Al As:

The Prophet (ﷺ) deputed me to read the Army of Dhat-as-Salasil. I came to him and said, "Who is the most beloved person to you?" He said, " `Aisha." I asked, "Among the men?" He said, "Her father." I said, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar bin Al-Khattab." He then named other men.

 

Points of contention:

Forget that there is the infamous enemy of Ali a.s, Ammar ibn Al As in the chain, a man who was the beloved of Muawiyah, the father of Yazid.

Don't be surprised that you do not hear the names of Ali ibn abi talib a.s , Hasan a.s, Hussain a.s, or Fatima a.s mentioned here, who were his own flesh and blood. I would like to ask my sunni brothers and sisters to open their hearts, and minds, and to reflect and ask themselves this:

Was Fatima a.s, the daughter of Muhammed s.a.w not alive at this moment in time ? Was Fatima a.s not the one who Muhammed s.a.w called 'the mother of her father'  ? Was Fatima a.s not the daughter who had been with Muhammed s.a.w before he met Umm Aisha, who had never disobeyed Muhammed s.a.w, angered Muhammed s.a.w, lied to Muhammed s.a.w ? Is Fatima a.s not one of the four leading women of paradise, one of the four most superior women in history ? Was she not the only woman taken to Mubahila ?

With all due respect, the mother of the believers, Aisha(may Allah preserve her from false accusations- slander), has angered Muhammed s.a.w many times. She has also been reprimanded in the Quran for plotting against Muhammed s.a.w to incite disunity between him and another wife, and encouraging another wife to also help lie to him. Hs Fatima a.s ever disobeyed Muhammed s.a.w  ? Or lied to him?

 

 

Even sunni's (some) agree that Fatima a.s is superior in the sight of Allah azwj and in the eyes of Muhammed s.a.w to Umm Aisha. Fatima a.s was also the most beloved to Muhammed s.a.w Therefore i ask you, how can the first name that comes into his mind be Aisha, and not Fatima ?

Some of our sunni brothers/sisters are very intelligent, eloquent, of a good character. However, and i do say this with respect, they would also make excellent lawyers, in terms of their ability to white-wash history, and play down any dispute or contention down and twist the narrative.

 

 

On another note, there is a hadith in sunni books which (is the true one) and states that actually, it is Fatima a.s that is more beloved to him, and it is Ali a.s of the men. Sadl (and not surprisingly) it is graded 'Weak':

Narrated Buraidah:
"The most beloved of women to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) was Fatimah and from the men was 'Ali.
[D'aif] - Tirmidhi
 
 

 

 

Why would the Prophet SAW categorize his family as "of the people"?  That's a very different question from "Who is the most beloved to you?"    Contextually what follows after Aisha was,  "among the men", which further supports this question isn't being asked in the way you're supposing.   

Also,  Children are exempt to a certain degree and have impunity from Allah SWT's wrath.   Aisha was a child for a good 60%+ of her life being married to the Prophet.  Which I guess can also depend on your definition of "child" vs. "adult" with regard to age.  How many 18 year old punks do we know make foolish and immature decisions resulting out of raw emotional output absent a clear conscience? 

 So I won't go there. 

You play a dangerous game by saying garbage like this "However, and i do say this with respect, they would also make excellent lawyers, in terms of their ability to white-wash history, and play down any dispute or contention down and twist the narrative.", that you didn't say that with any respect what so ever.  If you were respectable, you wouldn't mistake Sunnis's ignorance of history with blatant and purposeful white washing of history.  That in of itself is disparagingly ignorant and not well intended.  

You ought to be more respectful as you claim to be and try a more positive approach then accuse other people of being twisters of narratives if they themselves grew up with it and know it to be "truth" from their perspective.  Completely insincere and devoid of honest dialogue, I'm disappointed.

I don't know the timing of this Narration, but if this was early then I don't see the answer as controversial.  Abu Bakr and the Prophet SAW had a relationship that extended and preceded the life of 'Ali ibn Talib AS and most likely formulated a bond that you or I don't understand.   If Abu Bakr was wholly an indecent, broken, untrustworthy human being, then he would not have stuck it out from the beginning when people were literally hurling feces at the believers.

In my opinion Abu Bakr may have been an idiot and 'Ali ibn Talib AS deserved the Khalifah, but your substantiation I find lacking if that is it if your purporting the characters of Abu Bakr, Umar, etc. to be wholly and completely evil.  

I'm sorry @Tawheed313, but you've not presented a clear and cut evidence of "Hadith fabrication" by any means.  I was hoping to see some cross reference or existing contrary evidence.  Instead you present conjecture at your incapacity to recognize grammatical context.  I get it, Ahlul Bait was wronged and treated unfairly, but you don't extend that sin to people who blindly follow something they're born into, nor expose your disgruntled emotions/feelings by failing to restrain your rhetoric when expressing your opinions. 

The prophet SAW treated his enemies and disbelievers who were ignorant of God's knowledge with respect, as should you.

When we talk about Clear Hadith Fabrication, why not start at what blatantly contradicts the Qu'ran.  Wouldn't that be the best place to start?

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22 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

Why would the Prophet SAW categorize his family as "of the people"?  That's a very different question from "Who is the most beloved to you?"    Contextually what follow after Aisha was,  "among the men", which further supports this question isn't being asked in the way you're supposing. 

Also,  Children are exempt to a certain degree and have impunity from Allah SWT's wrath.   Aisha was a child for a good 60%+ of her life being married to the Prophet.  Which I guess can also depend on your definition of "child" vs. "adult" with regard to age.  How many 18 year old punks do we know make foolish and immature decisions resulting out of raw emotional output absent a clear conscience? 

 

:salam:

I hope we can have a cordial and academic discussion. I will address two of your points. One of the points you make is, the Prophet s.a.w was asked 'of the people' and no-one classes their family to be 'of the people'.

There are a number of issues here: Umulmimineen Aisha is already classed as part of the family of Muhammed s.a.w, she was after all his wife, and sunni's regard her as the Ahlulbayt - and so, this argument does not hold.

Furthermore, in another hadith he is asked, what person is most beloved to you. Rather than 'of the people'.

Umulmimineen Aisha indeed, was rather young for a lot of her life - being the daughter of Muhammed s.a.w. But so was Fatima a.s. who was nothing but obedient to Muhammed s.a.w

If we also take out point further, what do you say about umulmimineen Aisha, disobeying Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, going against the clear command of Allah azwj to the wives of Muhammed s.a.w to remain in their homes and not display themselves ? Indeed, Umulmimineen Aisha (may Allah preserve her from false accusations), was in her 30's/40's during Jamal. Should she have Obeyed Ali a.s and allowed him to deal with the killers of Uthman, rather than disobeying him, going against his command, and rousing an Army to try and avenge Uthman herself , bringing forth the conditions that led to the blood-shed of so many muslims ?

I say this to make an academic opinion, and never to slander.

When i was 16,17, i only had love of Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s in my heart, and i had never even seen him. What is your explanation of Umulmimineen Aisha not even being able to name him in a good context ?:

 

When Ubaidullah Ibn Utbah mentioned to Ibn Abbas that Aisha said “In his death-illness the Prophet was brought to (Aisha’s) house while his shoulders were being supported by Fadhl Ibn Abbas and another person”, then Abdullah Ibn Abbas said: “Do you know who this ‘other man’ was?” Ibn Utbah replied: “No.” Then Ibn Abbas said: “He was Ali Ibn Abi Talib, but she is averse to name him in a good context.”

  1. Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal, Volume 6 page 228 Tradition 25956

The margin writer of Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal namely Shaykh Shoib al-Arnaut stated:
“The chain is Sahih according to the standards of the two Sheiks (Bukhari & Muslim)”


This was also in Bukhari:


Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3 hadith 761:
Ubaidullah bin ‘Abdullah told me that ‘Aisha had said, “When the Prophet became sick and his condition became serious, he requested his wives to allow him to be treated in my house, and they allowed him. He came out leaning on two men while his feet were dragging on the ground. He was walking between Al-’Abbas and another man.” ‘Ubaidullah said, “When I informed Ibn ‘Abbas of what ‘Aisha had said, he asked me whether I knew who was the second man whom ‘Aisha had not named. I replied in the negative. He said, ‘He was ‘Ali bin Abi Talib.”

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

:salam:

I hope we can have a cordial and academic discussion. I will address two of your points. One of the points you make is, the Prophet s.a.w was asked 'of the people' and no-one classes their family to be 'of the people'.

There are a number of issues here: Umulmimineen Aisha is already classed as part of the family of Muhammed s.a.w, she was after all his wife, and sunni's regard her as the Ahlulbayt - and so, this argument does not hold.

According to Sunni's of the 21st Century, or Sunni's of the 6th century?  That's not something you or I can determine.  Fortunately, Sunni's aren't really the type to hone in on familial classifications enough as it is as you and I are already aware.   I know plenty of Sunni's who don't classify her as Ahlul Bait, or even care to make the distinction.  Last I checked, there's no premises upon being a Sunni if one doesn't bucket Aisha as a member of the house.  In fact, there wasn't any consortium/unified academic body dedicated to the extent of the Shia' theology in classifying Aisha's status as a member of Ahlul bait, because of how inconsequential this information would be in one's affinity to be.. a Sunni/muslim. 

Furthermore, in another hadith he is asked, what person is most beloved to you. Rather than 'of the people'.

Who narrated it, and where is it? 

Umulmimineen Aisha indeed, was rather young for a lot of her life - being the daughter of Muhammed s.a.w. But so was Fatima a.s. who was nothing but obedient to Muhammed s.a.w

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Fatima AS was an infallible, was she not?  How can you compare apples to oranges?  You can't expect the same behavior and class if I'm attributing Aisha and Fatima AS in Shia' constructs.

If we also take out point further, what do you say about umulmimineen Aisha, disobeying Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, going against the clear command of Allah azwj to the wives of Muhammed s.a.w to remain in their homes and not display themselves ? Indeed, Umulmimineen Aisha (may Allah preserve her from false accusations), was in her 30's/40's during Jamal. Should she have Obeyed Ali a.s and allowed him to deal with the killers of Uthman, rather than disobeying him, going against his command, and rousing an Army to try and avenge Uthman herself , bringing forth the conditions that led to the blood-shed of so many muslims ?

Quite frankly, my response to this doesn't impact the message I'm trying to send.  But If it really matters,  I consider Aisha as a stubborn, immature brat who had no regard to seeing beyond actions she couldn't understand.  Whether or not she sinned or screwed up, or made a "mistake" doesn't impact my standing with God as this happened over a thousands before my time and could care less. 

I say this to make an academic opinion, and never to slander.

When i was 16,17, i only had love of Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s in my heart, and i had never even seen him. What is your explanation of Umulmimineen Aisha not even being able to name him in a good context ?:

Again, as aforementioned, my response to this has no bearing on my response.  I don't call her mother of believers, also, mind you.  Like I said, I see her as an immature bratty kid and I don't need to go above that to excuse or not excuse her behavior.

When Ubaidullah Ibn Utbah mentioned to Ibn Abbas that Aisha said “In his death-illness the Prophet was brought to (Aisha’s) house while his shoulders were being supported by Fadhl Ibn Abbas and another person”, then Abdullah Ibn Abbas said: “Do you know who this ‘other man’ was?” Ibn Utbah replied: “No.” Then Ibn Abbas said: “He was Ali Ibn Abi Talib, but she is averse to name him in a good context.”

  1. Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal, Volume 6 page 228 Tradition 25956

The margin writer of Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal namely Shaykh Shoib al-Arnaut stated:
“The chain is Sahih according to the standards of the two Sheiks (Bukhari & Muslim)”


This was also in Bukhari:


Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3 hadith 761:
Ubaidullah bin ‘Abdullah told me that ‘Aisha had said, “When the Prophet became sick and his condition became serious, he requested his wives to allow him to be treated in my house, and they allowed him. He came out leaning on two men while his feet were dragging on the ground. He was walking between Al-’Abbas and another man.” ‘Ubaidullah said, “When I informed Ibn ‘Abbas of what ‘Aisha had said, he asked me whether I knew who was the second man whom ‘Aisha had not named. I replied in the negative. He said, ‘He was ‘Ali bin Abi Talib.”

 

I'm once again disappointed, out of your entire response you refuse to acknowledge your insult to our Sunni brother's and sisters, or the fact you may have been going a bit too far in calling them purposeful perverters of history. 

 

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23 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

 

You have referred to Umulmimineen Aisha as an 'immature brat', abused her in your post, told me you refuse to call her Umulmimineen as i do, and then have accused me of insulting my brothers and sisters in the ahlus-sunnah ?

 

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1 hour ago, wmehar2 said:

I don't know the timing of this Narration, but if this was early then I don't see the answer as controversial.  Abu Bakr and the Prophet SAW had a relationship that extended and preceded the life of 'Ali ibn Talib AS and most likely formulated a bond that you or I don't understand.   If Abu Bakr was wholly an indecent, broken, untrustworthy human being, then he would not have stuck it out from the beginning when people were literally hurling feces at the believers.

Since this hadith is from Amr Al-Aas, then we can assume it was towards the latter stages of the Prophethood since he became Muslim around 8AH. 

Surah Tahrim admonishing UMM Aisha was revealed around 6AH-7AH so it is hardly believable that UMM Aisha was a favorite at that time (if ever). Plus the Prophet himself admonished UMM Aisha several times for acting jealous towards Hz Khadija when the Prohet expressed his love and admiration for her. 

So quranically and historically, this seems to be a fake hadith.

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@Tawheed313

Wa alaikum salam, wa Rehmatullah, wa Baraktuhu.

Brother, I agree with you in whatever you have said before the narration of Amr bin Aas. Not all sahabah are eqaul. In fact there are three categories of sahabah as mentioned in Surah Tauba 100-102.

But after that you have shown the half picture. Here I will try my best to display you the full clear picture. Also your conclusions from narrations that you quoted are not correct (with due respect).

Now, coming to the narrations.

Narrated 'Amr bin Al-'As: that he said to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ): "Who is the most beloved of the people to you?" He said: "'Aishah." He said: "From the men?" He said: "Her Father."

Most beloved here does'nt mean that they are the only people most beloved to Prophet s.a.w.w.

Narrated Buraidah:
"The most beloved of women to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) was Fatimah and from the men was 'Ali."

Zaif (Albani).

Considering this, it means Hassan a.s and Hussain a.s are not most beloved to Prophet s.a.w.w. Is this possible?


Some other narrations (out of so many)

Narrated Usamah bin Zaid:
"I was sitting [with the Prophet (ﷺ)] when 'Ali and Al-'Abbas came seeking permission to enter. They said: 'O Usamah, seek permission for us from the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ).' So I said: 'O Messenger of Allah, 'Ali and Al-'Abbas seek permission to enter.' He said: 'Do you know what has brought them?' I said: 'No .' So the Prophet (ﷺ) said: 'But I know, grant them permission.' So they entered and said: 'O Messenger of Allah, we have come to you, to ask you which of your family is most beloved to you.' He said: 'Fatimah bint Muhammad.' So they said: 'We did not come to ask you about (immediate) family.' He said: 'The most beloved of my family to me is the one whom Allah favored and I favored, Usamah bin Zaid.' They said: 'Then who?' He said: 'Then 'Ali bin Abi Talib.' Al-'Abbas said: 'O Messenger of Allah, you have made your uncle the last of them.' He said: 'Indeed, 'Ali has preceded you in emigration.'" Trimizi- Book 49, Hadith 4190 (HASSAN)


Here no one else but Ali a.s himself and Abbas a.s asked from Prophet s.a.w.w "which of your family is most beloved to you." (they were actually asking this to know who from both of them is most beloved to Prophet, which is very clear from the context of the narration). And the answer was First Fatima, then Usama then Ali.


It was narrated from Ibn 'Umar that the Prophet(ﷺ) said:
"The most beloved of names to Allah are 'Abdullah and 'Abdur-Rahman." Sunan Ibn Majah 3728

Narrated Sahl bin Sa`d:
The most beloved names to `Ali was Abu Turab, and he used to be pleased when we called him by it, for none named him Abu Turab (for the first time), but the Prophet. Once `Ali got angry with (his wife) Fatima, and went out (of his house) and slept near a wall in the mosque. The Prophet (ﷺ) came searching for him, and someone said, "He is there, Lying near the wall." The Prophet (ﷺ) came to him while his (`Ali's) back was covered with dust. The Prophet (ﷺ) started removing the dust from his back, saying, "Get up, O Abu Turab!" Sahih al-Bukhari 6204

But we see that shias use names like Muhammad, Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain more while the most beloved names to Allah are Abdulluh, Abdur Rehman and to Ali a.s is Abu Turab.

Narrated `Abdullah bin `Amr bin Al-`As:

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) told me, "The most beloved prayer to Allah is that of David and the most beloved fasts to Allah are those of David. He used to sleep for half of the night and then pray for one third of the night and again sleep for its sixth part and used to fast on alternate days." Sahih al-Bukhari 1131

Does this mean that prayer and fast of our Prophet s.a.w.w was not most beloved to Allah.


Narrated 'Aisha:
The people of the Quraish tribe were worried about the Makhzumiya woman. They said. "Nobody dare speak to him (i.e. the Prophet (ﷺ) ) except Usama bin Zaid as he is the most beloved to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)." Sahih al-Bukhari 3732

Here Usama r.a is most beloved to Prophet s.a.w.w. Now what does it mean?

Narrated Salim's father:
The Prophet (ﷺ) appointed Usama as the commander of the troops (to be sent to Syria). The Muslims spoke about Usama (unfavorably ). The Prophet (ﷺ) said, " I have been informed that you spoke about Usama. (Let it be known that ) he is the most beloved of all people to me." Sahih al-Bukhari 4468

Now, here Prophet s.a.w.w is himself saying without being asked by anyone that Usama r.a is the most beloved of all people to me.

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
An Ansari woman came to the Prophet (ﷺ) and he took her aside and said (to her). "By Allah, you (Ansar) are the most beloved people to me." Sahih al-Bukhari 5234

Here Prophet s.a.w.w said after swaering to Allah that Ansaar are most beloved to me. Not one or two people all ansaar. Does it mean muhajir are not most beloved to Prophet s.a.w.w.


Narrated Anas bin Malik:
"There was a bird with the Prophet (ﷺ), so he said: 'O Allah, send to me the most beloved of Your creatures to eat this bird with me.' So 'Ali came and ate with him."
Trimizi Book 49, Hadith 4087 (Hassan)

Here Prophet s.a.w.w is asking Allah to send your most beloved creature to me. And Ali a.s came. Does this mean that Fatima s.a is not most beloved to Allah.


Narrated Sahl bin Sa`d:
On the day of Khaibar, Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Tomorrow I will give this flag to a man through whose hands Allah will give us victory. He loves Allah and His Apostle, and he is loved by Allah and His Apostle." The people remained that night, wondering as to who would be given it. In the morning the people went to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and everyone of them was hopeful to receive it (i.e. the flag). The Prophet said, "Where is `Ali bin Abi Talib?" It was said, "He is suffering from eye trouble O Allah's Apostle." He said, "Send for him." `Ali was brought and Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) spat in his eye and invoked good upon him. So `Ali was cured as if he never had any trouble. Then the Prophet (ﷺ) gave him the flag. `Ali said "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! I will fight with them till they become like us." Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Proceed and do not hurry. When you enter their territory, call them to embrace Islam and inform them of Allah's Rights which they should observe, for by Allah, even if a single man is led on the right path (of Islam) by Allah through you, then that will be better for you than the nice red camels. Sahih al-Bukhari 4210

Now does it mean that there is no one else who love Allah and Prophet s.a.w.w and vice versa.


Also, the acts/qualities that Allah love the most are not one or two, but so many.

Things that Allah love: https://amuslimsistermaria200327.wordpress.com/2010/04/23/17-qualities-that-Allah-loves/
Things that Allah doesnt love: http://www.authentictauheed.com/2011/03/30-people-Allah-hates-shaikh-faisal.html

Now make conclusions considering all the narrations? And be broad minded. Not everything is a shia sunni issue.


And I am 100% sure similiar narrations are also available in major four shia hadith books. But its very very difficult for anyone to find and search anything from those books. Because such books are not present in edited and searchable format in universal english language, like Ahlul Sunnah hadith books are available (let alone consider suunah.com). While shia scholars and publishers have translated their many secondary books but they are still ignoring even in the era of computer and internet, their primary major four books. May be beacuse they dont want to reveal the truth to laymen shias.

 

JAZAK Allah KHAIRAN

 

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14 hours ago, zainabamy said:

Very well put. Plus anyone who knows the character of Ammar ibn al Aas would not be quick to accept narrations from him. 

He also narrated ammar will be killed by rebel party we cannot throw away all his narrations 

it's Amr or amru ibn a'as not Ammar as far as I know 

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18 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

Our sunni brothers have a very idealistic perception of the companions in general, and the generation after them, and the generation after them. I personally believe they ignore the reality that was Arab tribalism, long held fueds, political corruption, family ties, example after example of deceit, and paint all of the companions as virtuious and above any criticism. We shia's love and revere many of the Sahaba. We don't consider them as one block or embodied in one person. Every single sahaba was a human, not a super-human. They were like any large body or group of human beings.

If i criticise one ahlus-sunnah sheikh , am i criticising all the sheikhs ? If i criticise one American, am i abusing all of the Americans? The idealistic vision of the companions, where by even having a view and disagreeing with one of them is tantamount to villifying all of them is frankly, (and with all due respect)  unacademic and illogical.

There was an Ummayd rift with the Banu Hashim, from the time of the Prophet Muhammed s.a.w , to the time of the caliphs, in paticular the third one, who was from the banu ummayah, to his death and the subsequent wars waged on Ali a.s , and the widespread propaganda that he was not dealing justly to avenge the death of the banu-ummayah caliph (the third one), to the time of Muawiyah and his son Yazid and a number of other Banu Ummayad caliphs in their dynasty. This was followed by the time of the Abbasids, who were also brutal and had their own political agendas.

I am going to touch on two ahadith which are clear-cut fabrications

The following is a Saheeh hadith (by their standards) narrated by Ammar bin Al As:

Narrated 'Amr bin Al-'As: that he said to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ): "Who is the most beloved of the people to you?" He said: "'Aishah." He said: "From the men?" He said: "Her Father."
 
Also another hadith in Bukhari from Ammar bin Al As:

The Prophet (ﷺ) deputed me to read the Army of Dhat-as-Salasil. I came to him and said, "Who is the most beloved person to you?" He said, " `Aisha." I asked, "Among the men?" He said, "Her father." I said, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar bin Al-Khattab." He then named other men.

 

Points of contention:

Forget that there is the infamous enemy of Ali a.s, Ammar ibn Al As in the chain, a man who was the beloved of Muawiyah, the father of Yazid.

Don't be surprised that you do not hear the names of Ali ibn abi talib a.s , Hasan a.s, Hussain a.s, or Fatima a.s mentioned here, who were his own flesh and blood. I would like to ask my sunni brothers and sisters to open their hearts, and minds, and to reflect and ask themselves this:

Was Fatima a.s, the daughter of Muhammed s.a.w not alive at this moment in time ? Was Fatima a.s not the one who Muhammed s.a.w called 'the mother of her father'  ? Was Fatima a.s not the daughter who had been with Muhammed s.a.w before he met Umm Aisha, who had never disobeyed Muhammed s.a.w, angered Muhammed s.a.w, lied to Muhammed s.a.w ? Is Fatima a.s not one of the four leading women of paradise, one of the four most superior women in history ? Was she not the only woman taken to Mubahila ?

With all due respect, the mother of the believers, Aisha(may Allah preserve her from false accusations- slander), has angered Muhammed s.a.w many times. She has also been reprimanded in the Quran for plotting against Muhammed s.a.w to incite disunity between him and another wife, and encouraging another wife to also help lie to him. Hs Fatima a.s ever disobeyed Muhammed s.a.w  ? Or lied to him?

 

 

Even sunni's (some) agree that Fatima a.s is superior in the sight of Allah azwj and in the eyes of Muhammed s.a.w to Umm Aisha. Fatima a.s was also the most beloved to Muhammed s.a.w Therefore i ask you, how can the first name that comes into his mind be Aisha, and not Fatima ?

Some of our sunni brothers/sisters are very intelligent, eloquent, of a good character. However, and i do say this with respect, they would also make excellent lawyers, in terms of their ability to white-wash history, and play down any dispute or contention down and twist the narrative.

 

 

On another note, there is a hadith in sunni books which (is the true one) and states that actually, it is Fatima a.s that is more beloved to him, and it is Ali a.s of the men. Sadl (and not surprisingly) it is graded 'Weak':

Narrated Buraidah:
"The most beloved of women to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) was Fatimah and from the men was 'Ali.
[D'aif] - Tirmidhi
 
 

 

 

Buraidah is that buraida Husaib aslami ?

He occurs in many pro Alid traditions but he is notably absent in all events in time of Ali

do you have more info on him

btw Amr b a'as was anti uthman and not loved but rather tolerated by muawiyah who needed his Egyptian connections against Ali's party.

 

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15 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

You have referred to Umulmimineen Aisha as an 'immature brat', abused her in your post, told me you refuse to call her Umulmimineen as i do, and then have accused me of insulting my brothers and sisters in the ahlus-sunnah ?

 

Dodge, dogde, and keep dodging all my responses some more.  I don't need to accuse you of anything,  your insult is open plainly for all to see.

Are you going to have a discussion or continue to deviate from topic?

I don't remember the Quran instructing me to call her the mother of believers,  nor do I remember the Quran telling me I can't have an opinion that is most open to change.

But I dont need to hear this from someone who just Compared Aisha with Fatima Az-Zuhra, and called her equally lacking.   Difference between you and I is that I don't beat around the bush and pretend to be cordial when your snarkiness and disdain are apparant. 

Some people of the Shia have cursed Aisha (I understand not all do), at least I don't.  Or on anyone.  My opinions are nothing juxtaposed with the cursing of her.  I was out of line calling her a brat, and for this I apologize.  Her responsibilities for her age were much for any woman aa she is human .  Not to mention nor infallible, per shia theory. 

At least I would ask for God not to remove his mercy from her or anyone.

So if you're done whining about the immaterial garbage maybe you can go back to addressing my points.  I'm not here for pretend play-time by putting on a false mask of cordiality, when you demonstrate your failure to maintain that politeness.   As such, I will not extend such courtesy until you've admitted you were being insincere and refrain from satirical words.

So please excuse my bluntness.

Brother Fahad made Excellent points using excellent references.  With politeness , cordiality,  and academic methodology.   I was expecting that kind of response from you.

Edited by wmehar2
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4 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

Dodge, dogde, and keep dodging all my responses some more.  I don't need to accuse you of anything,  your insult is open plainly for all to see.

Are you going to have a discussion or continue to deviate from topic?

I don't remember the Quran instructing me to call her the mother of believers,  nor do I remember the Quran telling me I can't have an opinion that is most open to change.

But I dont need to hear this from someone who just Compared Aisha with Fatima Az-Zuhra, and called her equally lacking.   Difference between you and I is that I don't beat around the bush and pretend to be cordial when your snarkiness and disdain are apparant. 

Some people of the Shia have cursed Aisha (I understand not all do), at least I don't.  Or on anyone.  My opinions are nothing juxtaposed with the cursing of her.  I was out of line calling her a brat, and for this I apologize.  Her responsibilities for her age were much for any woman aa she is human .  Not to mention nor infallible, per shia theory. 

At least I would ask for God not to remove his mercy from her or anyone.

So if you're done whining about the immaterial garbage maybe you can go back to addressing my points.  I'm not here for pretend play-time by putting on a false mask of cordiality, when you demonstrate your failure to maintain that politeness.   As such, I will not extend such courtesy until you've admitted you were being insincere and refrain from satirical words.

So please excuse my bluntness.

Brother Fahad made Excellent points using excellent references.  With politeness , cordiality,  and academic methodology.   I was expecting that kind of response from you.

 

19 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Since this hadith is from Amr Al-Aas, then we can assume it was towards the latter stages of the Prophethood since he became Muslim around 8AH. 

Surah Tahrim admonishing UMM Aisha was revealed around 6AH-7AH so it is hardly believable that UMM Aisha was a favorite at that time (if ever). Plus the Prophet himself admonished UMM Aisha several times for acting jealous towards Hz Khadija when the Prohet expressed his love and admiration for her. 

So quranically and historically, this seems to be a fake hadith.

 

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35 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:
  19 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Since this hadith is from Amr Al-Aas, then we can assume it was towards the latter stages of the Prophethood since he became Muslim around 8AH. 

Surah Tahrim admonishing UMM Aisha was revealed around 6AH-7AH so it is hardly believable that UMM Aisha was a favorite at that time (if ever). Plus the Prophet himself admonished UMM Aisha several times for acting jealous towards Hz Khadija when the Prohet expressed his love and admiration for her. 

So quranically and historically, this seems to be a fake hadith.

Well, are allowed to assume the mind of a person that we are not?  "hardly believable" doesn't amount to a false hadith.  How many parents admonish their children, or wives/husbands who've admonished each other yet loved each other?  Considering the timing, yes they were very flustered with each other, so I can see a reason why it's not believable but.. yet it's not enough to disprove. 

It's just not a good enough argument to say this is a false hadith. 

Especially considering the youth/immaturity of Aisha with regard to her age. 

I still need to something concrete to effectively address the difference of being asked "of the people, who do you love" versus, "who is the most beloved person to you"  It cannot be both. 

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17 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

Well, are allowed to assume the mind of a person that we are not?  "hardly believable" doesn't amount to a false hadith.  How many parents admonish their children, or wives/husbands who've admonished each other yet loved each other?  Considering the timing, yes they were very flustered with each other, so I can see a reason why it's not believable but.. yet it's not enough to disprove. 

It's just not a good enough argument to say this is a false hadith. 

Especially considering the youth/immaturity of Aisha with regard to her age. 

I still need to something concrete to effectively address the difference of being asked "of the people, who do you love" versus, "who is the most beloved person to you"  It cannot be both. 

Is your contention about the hadith only or are you discussing the Prophet's love for Hz Aisha versus his love for other wives specifically Hz Khadijah?

'A'isha reported:
Never did I feel jealous of the wives of Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) but in case of Khadija, although I did no, (have the privilege to) see her. She further added that whenever Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) slaughtered a sheep, he said: Send it to the companions of Khadija I annoyed him one day and said: (It is) Khadija only who always prevails upon your mind. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: Her love had been nurtured in my heart by Allah Himself.
Sahih Muslim
Book 31, Hadith 5972

Surely a love nurtured by Allah is greater than a love not nurtured by Allah.

Perhaps the hadith was about only the people alive when the question was asked.

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1 minute ago, shiaman14 said:

 

Is your contention about the hadith only or are you discussing the Prophet's love for Hz Aisha versus his love for other wives specifically Hz Khadijah?

'A'isha reported:
Never did I feel jealous of the wives of Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) but in case of Khadija, although I did no, (have the privilege to) see her. She further added that whenever Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) slaughtered a sheep, he said: Send it to the companions of Khadija I annoyed him one day and said: (It is) Khadija only who always prevails upon your mind. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: Her love had been nurtured in my heart by Allah Himself.
Sahih Muslim
Book 31, Hadith 5972

Surely a love nurtured by Allah is greater than a love not nurtured by Allah.

Perhaps the hadith was about only the people alive when the question was asked.

Khadija RA cannot be considered "of the people",  but it might be applied in "who is the most beloved person to you", if she has already passed away and died.  Who IS has a present tense.  I'm maintaining that this question's context is not explicit enough for you or I to make a determination of inconsistency in the regards to what you're mentioning. 

My main point is that from what you've presented and @Tawheed313's presentation, I'm not finding enough substance to rule conclusively is this hadith is fabricated.  I'm  not really arguing who is the prophet's SAW favorite person.  Surely if the Prophet SAW was friends with Abu Bakr in his early life, and then disliked him in his later life, the Prophet's SAW opinion of people are subject to change.  I'm not really trying to argue at all who is the favorite person.

All of this aside @shiaman14.  I'm not sure if I mentioned this to you before, but I'm critical of most Hadith in general, I'm very hesitant to say if anything is fabricated or truthful, or reliable unless I can find a direct support/contradiction within the Qu'ran.  

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1 hour ago, wmehar2 said:

Khadija RA cannot be considered "of the people",  but it might be applied in "who is the most beloved person to you", if she has already passed away and died.  Who IS has a present tense.  I'm maintaining that this question's context is not explicit enough for you or I to make a determination of inconsistency in the regards to what you're mentioning. 

My main point is that from what you've presented and @Tawheed313's presentation, I'm not finding enough substance to rule conclusively is this hadith is fabricated.  I'm  not really arguing who is the prophet's SAW favorite person.  Surely if the Prophet SAW was friends with Abu Bakr in his early life, and then disliked him in his later life, the Prophet's SAW opinion of people are subject to change.  I'm not really trying to argue at all who is the favorite person.

All of this aside @shiaman14.  I'm not sure if I mentioned this to you before, but I'm critical of most Hadith in general, I'm very hesitant to say if anything is fabricated or truthful, or reliable unless I can find a direct support/contradiction within the Qu'ran.  

Got it!

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