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Did Ali ibn abi Talib a.s name his son after Umar?

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:bismillah:

:salam:

Did Ali a.s name his son after Hz Umar, the second Caliph ?

In this thread, i am going to discuss whether there were any other companions of Muhammed s.a.w who Ali ibn abi Talib a.s named his son 'Umar' after (as a possibility). It may be that, Umar, having been a very common name, was one he chose culturally and not in honour of anybody. After all, Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s in some reports, had dozens of sons, so naming one after a rather common name is not to be unexpected. There are also a number of very honourable Umar's, i am only going to focus on one of the most pious, close, and most revered Umars.

The Umar in question is Umar, the son of Umm Salama, may Allah azwj be pleased with them both.

Umar , the son of Umm Salamah, according to Tarikh At-tabari, was fostered by Muhammed s.a.w , as he states: "It was reported that the Prophet fostered him from the time he was nine years old.".  This means that Umar ibn abi Salamah (Radiyallahu anhu) gains the status as one of the companions of Muhammed s.a.w as well as one who even lived and was fostered by the holy prophet s.a.w. This fact alone, makes it likely he knew and had met Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, and was known to him - perhaps well known to him. 

We also find a very close bond between Umar bin abi salamah (Radiyallahu anhu) and Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s. It has been narrated in a number of sources that Umm Salama Umar bin abi salamah (Radiyallahu anha) gave her son , Umar,  to Ali ibn abi Talib a.s to fight on his side during the battle of Jamal. As Tabari reports: "`Umar participated in [the battle of ] the Camel on the side of `Ali [b. Abi Talib], who later appointed him governor of Fars. We therefore see that he love and dedication Umar bin abi salamah (Radiyallahu anhu) had for Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s and the loyalty shown to him was manifested by his unwavering bravery and support during the first Fitnah, in the battle of Jamal.

Such trust, love, and dedication did he show Ali ibn abi talib a.s that he was given leadership positions when Ali a.s was caliph. Some reports say it was Bahrain, and some say Bahrain, Fars and a number of other places. 

Indeed, in Nahjul Balagha, we find Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s writing a letter to Umar (Radiyallahu anhu):

"Now, I have posted an-Nu'man ibn `Ajlan az-Zuraqi at Bahrain and have released you from that position without any blame or or reproach on you, because you managed the governorship well and discharged the obligations. Therefore, proceed to me while you are neither suspected nor rebuked, neither blamed nor guilty. I have just intended to proceed towards the recalcitrant of Syria and desired that you should be with me because you are among those on whom I rely in fighting the enemy and erecting the pillars of religion, if Allah wills.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-42-umar-ihn-abi-salamah-al-makhzumi

 

Summary points:

1. Umar ibn Abi Salamah (radiyallahu anhu), was fostered by the Prophet Muhammed s.a.w and is a well respected sahaba to both shia and sunni muslims. He was the son of the most respected wife to shia's after Lady Khadija (radiyallahu anha), Umm Salama (radiyallahu anha).

2. He sided and showed dedication and loyalty to Ali ibn abi Talib a.s during the battle of jamal.

3. He was given leadership positions under the caliphate of Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s in Bahrain, Fars and a number of other places (varying depending on the report).

4. Ali ibn Abi Talib is narrated, in a letter to him in nahjul balagha, to shower him with plaudits and praise, regarding him as one who managed his duties well, discharged obligatations and one whom Ali ibn abi Talib a.s called on when going to war against Muawiyah, telling Umar ibn abi salamah (radiyallahu anhu) that he was one of the people Ali ibn abi talib a.s relies on in 'fighting the enemy and erecting the pillars of the religion'.

 

Therefore , owing to the prominence of Umar ibn abi salama (radiyallahu anhu), his closeness to Muhammed s.a.w, his loyalty to Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, so much so, he was one of the ones Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s dearly loved and closely relied on, it is erronous to assume Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s would not have named his son after his Umar, but definitely after the second caliph. It may have been that Umar was a famous name either way, and that Ali ibn abi talib a.s named his son after a culturally common name. Only today has it been exclusively associated with the second caliph.

The same applies to the remainder of the imams a.s if they named their sons Umar. It may have been after any Umar, an Umar they knew personally, or due to the fact Umar was a common name.

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1 hour ago, coldcow said:

Didn't he also name another son Abu-Bakr, and another Uthman?  And I think he adopted one of Abu-Bakr's sons.

Abu Bakr is a Qunya not a name. It may have been given to him by someone else. As for Uthman, there were a number of prominent companions named Uthman, such as one of the earliest converts, Uthman ibn ma'zhun (radiyallahu anhu) - one of the most pious and earliest converts to Islam, a man who converted a long time before Hz. Umar ibn Al Khattab. Uthman is also a common name.

If Ali ibn abi talib a.s had five sons, two being hasan and Hussain a.s and three being Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman, i would not consider it evidence he named them after the caliphs.

However, Ali ibn abi talib a.s had dozens of sons according to some reports , and had many wives.

Yes, you are correct, he adopted Muhammed ibn Abu Bakr (radiyallahu anhu) one of the most loyal followers of Ali a.s

Edited by Tawheed313

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Brother, if  Amir al mumimeen Ali(a.s) named one of his sons Umar after Umar bin abi Salamah(a.s) and not Amir al mumineen Umar Al Faruq(a.s) then what prevents shias from doing that? Why cant shias name their sons after Umar bin Abi Salamah(a.s) to honour him, or name their sons abu bakr after a sahabi beloved to Ali(a.s) (not Abu Bakr Al Siddiq a.s)?

Also why didnt the imams of ahlulbayt avoid names such as Abu Bakr and Umar like our shia brothers are doing that today?

 

 

Edited by Muslim_Till_JudgementDay

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On 7/24/2016 at 9:13 AM, Muslim_Till_JudgementDay said:

Brother, if  Amir al mumimeen Ali(a.s) named one of his sons Umar after Umar bin abi Salamah(a.s) and not Amir al mumineen Umar Al Faruq(a.s) then what prevents shias from doing that? Why cant shias name their sons after Umar bin Abi Salamah(a.s) to honour him, or name their sons abu bakr after a sahabi beloved to Ali(a.s) (not Abu Bakr Al Siddiq a.s)?

Also why didnt the imams of ahlulbayt avoid names such as Abu Bakr and Umar like our shia brothers are doing that today?

 

 

The name 'Umar' then was common and not merely associated to the second Caliph. In todays world [and perhaps more so as time went on from his own death], it is almost exclusively used to honour the second caliph and so has an entirely different cultural and religious context.

Before, the name 'Umar' was a common name. 

Abu-Bakr was a Qunya, the real name of the son of Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s was not that. Now, we can all debate from where he got this Qunya from. 

Edited by uponthesunnah

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On 7/24/2016 at 2:43 AM, coldcow said:

Didn't he also name another son Abu-Bakr, and another Uthman?  And I think he adopted one of Abu-Bakr's sons.

Interestingly, Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s's son, Uthman, was older than both his sons Umar, and Abu Bakr. It is well known Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s had disagreements with Uthman. Furthermore, the status of the shaikhain are considered far superior to Uthmans. Not only this, but Uthman had died long after Abu Bakr, and after Umar too.

Which begs the question, if Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s named his son in honour of certain caliphs, why would he not start with naming his son Abu-Bakr? Or Umar?  Why name his son Uthman first? Remember, Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s had many, many sons, some reports say well over fourteen. 

Uthman was a common name, and many prominent companions had this name. Umar was common, and i have given one example of a very loyal Umar we shia's revere in the OP. 

 

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Nice to see Umar b Abi Salma remembered....he is also mentioned in kitab sulaym b qays as companion of zain ul abiden

Umar b Ali though I've read in tabari supported Abdullah b zubair against Mukhtar? Is there any other source on it ?

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As salamu aleikum. 

Firstly, i believe that whenever sunnis refer to this, they try to emphasize the combination of those names. 

Secondly, did Ali really name one of his sons Umar? Is there any evidence for this? I actually thought it was Amru, not Umar. One of shia sites here gives us this information:

كان النسل من ولد علي لخمسة الحسن والحسين ومحمد بن الحنفية والعباس بن الكلابية وعمرو بن التغلبية 
 
«The descendants of Ali derive from 5 his sons: Hussain, Muhammad ibn Hanafiyah, Abbas ibn Kalabiya and Amru ibn Taglabiyah» 

We see this in Tarih Tabari, volume 3 page 163 the Beirut edition "dar ul-kutub" and edition "daru Sadr" volume 3, page 163. Note that in some of the editions of Tarih Tabari the name was corrupted. As we've stated previously, that can be done pretty easily. The example for this corruption we have in Beirut edition "Azzu al-Din".

Narrated ibn abi Shayba in his Mussanaf: 

حدثنا خالد بن مخلد قال حدثني موسى قال أخبرني محمد بن عمرو بن علي عن علي بن أبي طالب قال أول من دفن بالبقيع عثمان بن مظعون ثم اتبعه إبراهيم بن محمد رسول الله صلى الله عليه(وآله) وسلم

Volume 7 page 272

and the other chain:

عن عبد الله بن محمد بن عمرو بن علي (ابن أبي طالب) قال حدثني أبي قال قال علي والذي فلق الحبة وبرأ النسمة لإزالة الجبال من مكانها أهون من إزالة ملك مؤجل فإذا اختلفوا بينهم فوالذي نفسي بيده لو كادتهم الضباع لغلبتهم

Volume 7 page 462

Musab Zuheiri:

فولد يحيى بن زيد بن علي: حسنة، وأمها: محبة بنت عمرو بن علي بن أبي طالب

Nisabu Qureish, page 51.

the same book, page 66:

كانت فاطمة بنت الحسين بن الحسن بن علي بن أبي طالب وأمها: أم حبيب بنت عمرو بن علي بن أبي طالب

Qadi Maghribi:

كان عمرو آخر ولد علي بن أبي طالب

Sharh al-Akhbar, volume 3 page 187

Sunan Tirmithi: 

حدثنا صالح بن عبد الله الترمذي حدثنا الفرج بن فضالة أبو فضالة الشامي عن يحيى بن سعيد عن محمد بن عمرو بن علي عن علي بن أبي طالب 
 

 
Volume 4, page 429. "kitabu al-fitan" hadith 2210 edition
 "Maktabu Tijariyah", Makkah. Note that some of the contemporary edtions have the name corrupted.

Yaqubi writes in his tarih:

وكان له ( أي الإمام علي) من الولد الذكور أربعة عشر ذكراً: الحسن، والحسين، ومحسن، مات صغيرا، أمهم فاطمة بنت رسول الله (ص) … وعمرو، أمه أم حبيب بنت ربيعة البكرية

Volume 2, page 148.

 

Abu Faraj Isfahani in Maqatilu Talibin:

أمه أم البنين… وهو أكبر ولدها، وهو آخر من قتل من إخوته لأمه وأبيه، لأنه كان له عقب، ولم يكن لهم، فقدمهم بين يديه، فقتلوا جميعاً، فحاز مواريثهم؛ ثم تقدم فقتل، فورثهم وإياه عبيد الله، ونازعه في ذلك عمه عمرو بن علي، فصولح على شيء رضى به

page 87

Ibn Athir in his book "Tahthibu tahthib" edtiton "dar sadir":

قال علي بن عبد الله بن محمد بن عمرو بن علي

volume 5, page 521. Note that the second and the third editions have the corruptions in them.

As suyti:

جملة أولاد علي رضي الله عنه من الذكور أحدا وعشرون والذي أعقب منهم خمسة الحسن والحسين ابنا فاطمة رضي الله عنها، ومحمد بن الحنفية نسبه إلى بني حنيفة، والعباس ابن الكلابية، وعمرو ابن التغلبية نسبه لقبيلة يقال لها تغلب 
 
hashiyatu jamal, volume 15, page 484

Muttaqi Hindi:

عن ابن أبي فديك قال : حدثني علي بن عمرو بن علي بن أبي طالب عن أبيه عن جده

and he mentions there:

هذا خبر عندنا صحيح سنده إن كان عمرو بن علي هذا هو عمر بن علي بن أبي طالب ولم يكن عمر ابن علي بن الحسين بن علي بن أبي طالب فإني أظنه عمرو بن علي بن الحسين وذلك أنه قد روى عنه بعضه مرسلا 
 
Kanzul Ummal, volume 1, page 478.

Original article:


http://otvet.arsh313.com/pochemu-imam-ali-a-nazval-svoih-synovej-imenami-abu-bakra-umara-i-usmana/

Sorry for my afwul english

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On 7/24/2016 at 1:13 AM, Muslim_Till_JudgementDay said:

Brother, if  Amir al mumimeen Ali(a.s) named one of his sons Umar after Umar bin abi Salamah(a.s) and not Amir al mumineen Umar Al Faruq(a.s) then what prevents shias from doing that? Why cant shias name their sons after Umar bin Abi Salamah(a.s) to honour him, or name their sons abu bakr after a sahabi beloved to Ali(a.s) (not Abu Bakr Al Siddiq a.s)?

Also why didnt the imams of ahlulbayt avoid names such as Abu Bakr and Umar like our shia brothers are doing that today?

 

 

@uponthesunnah

This is important. Follow ahlul bait.

Not this one " Did Ali a.s name his son after Hz Umar, the second Caliph ? ". The same thing which you are explaining since months.

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4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

@uponthesunnah

This is important. Follow ahlul bait.

Not this one " Did Ali a.s name his son after Hz Umar, the second Caliph ? ". The same thing which you are explaining since months.

When he named his son after Hz Umar, it was not after the caliph, or out of honour of him. This is my view. But today, the name has unanimously been known to be for the second caliph, and as such, the context of naming is entirely different. Back then, few would immediately think i named by child after the second caliph, today, everyone would think i did so.

It's not harram to name your child 'Umar'. You can do it if you want, but due to the association it has with the second caliph, the majority of shias opt not to. Perhaps when it was a culturally common name in and of itself, and there were many other prominent Umars, back in the time of Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, we may have.

Edited by uponthesunnah

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