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Rightly guided?

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On 7/9/2016 at 1:38 AM, Tawheed313 said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

I came across this hadith in Saheeh al Bukhari and was quite shocked about it:

"I saw `Uthman and `Ali. `Uthman used to forbid people to perform Hajj-at-Tamattu` and Hajj-al- Qiran (Hajj and `Umra together), and when `Ali saw (this act of `Uthman), he assumed Ihram for Hajj and `Umra together saying, "Lubbaik for `Umra and Hajj," and said, "I will not leave the tradition of the Prophet (ﷺ) on the saying of somebody."

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/25/49

and another Saheeh hadith[in nisai]:

"I heard 'Ali binHusain narrating from Marwan, that 'Uthman forbade Mut'ah and joining Hajj and "Umrah. 'Ali said; 'Labbaika bi Hajjatin wa 'Umratin ma'an Here I am, (O Allah) for Hajj and "Umrah together. 'Uthman said: 'Are you doing this when I have forbidden it?' 'Ali said; 'I will not give up the Sunnh of the Messenger of Allah for any of the people.'''

 

 

 

How can the four caliphs all be rightly guided, when you have disagreements among them as to who is actually following the sunnah ?

This is not an inviation for people to begin to abuse highly revered symbols in the madhab of our brothers in the ahlus-sunnah. I am asking an academic question. I want a relevant answer, perhaps from our resident brothers who are sunni's, to elucidate on how you can reconcile the belief in the rightly guided caliphs, with the above hadith?


Rightly guided means those who truly followed the Prophet's foot steps. They lived simple and righteous lives and strove hard for the religion of Allah. Their justice was impartial, their treatment of others was kind and merciful, and they were one with the people. The later Caliphs (From Ameer Muawiya to onwards) assumed the manners of kings and emperors and they were mostly harsh rather than merciful to the people. Then the next rightly guided caliph was Hazrat Umar bin Abdul Aziz r.a.

But this does not mean that they cannot make mistakes. Infact they have done mistakes. Same applys for Prophets and Ahlebait. Likewise there were also disagreement among Sahabah over many things like prohibition of Mutah etc. We have to follow and obey them only in things which are as per Quran and Sunnah of Prophet s.a.w.w. Only Allah is free from making mistakes. Those who say/believe, Prophets or Ahlebait or Sahabah are free from doing mistakes or we also have to follow them when they are acting contrary to the Quran or Sunnah, are exaggerators/boasters/liars. This is ghuluw/polytheism.

Imam Ali Reza a.s said...

Book: Uyun Akhbar Reza, Chapter 46, narration #5.
46-5 Tamim ibn Abdullah ibn Tamim al-Qurashi - may God have Mercy upon him - narrated that his father quoted on the authority of Ahmad ibn Ali Al-Ansari, on the authority of Abi Salt al-Harawi that he told Ar-Ridha’ (a.s.), “O son of the Prophet of God! There are people in the vicinity of Kufa who think that the Prophet (S) never made any mistakes when saying his prayers.” The Imam (a.s.) said, “May God damn them! They lie. The Only One who makes no mistakes is God - the One and Only.” Abi Salt al-Harawi added, “O son of the Prophet of God! There are people among them who think that Al-Husayn ibn Ali (a.s.) was not killed and God made someone else called Handhala ibn As’ad ash-Shami look like him (and be killed). And He raised Jesus (a.s.) - the son of (the Blessed Lady) Mary (a.s.) and the reason they present is by using the following verse, ‘…And never will God grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumphs) over the believers.
https://www.al-islam.org/uyun-akhbar-ar-ridha-volume-2-shaykh-saduq/chapter-46-what-has-been-narrated-ar-ridha-regarding

The hadith mentioned above is true. And I think there must be some reason behind this, on basis of which Hazrat Uthman r.a had ordered to forbid this. May be for a temporary time. Only Allah knows best what was his intention for doing this. While other Sahabah including Maula Ali a.s opposed this ruling. And I am sure after this Hazrat Uthman r.a must have refrained from such ruling. And as I said we have to follow caliphs only in things which are not against Quran and Sunnah of Prophet s.a.w.w.

Similarlry there are many examples both in Shia and Sunni hadith books which says Maula Ali a.s and other Imams from his progeny also did mistakes. And this is not any insult to them. While considering the reverse is infact exxaggeration, as mentioned in above narration of Imam Ali Reza a.s.

Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 88, Hadith 5. Source: http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/88/5

Narrated Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to `Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn `Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

They all were rightly guided (From Abu Bakr to Hassan) but they were not gods. They did mistakes but when they were rebuked about their mistakes they refrained and acted correctly. They were to be obeyed as long as they obeyed Allah and Prophet s.a.w.w.

Edited by Fahad Sani

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On 7/23/2016 at 0:34 PM, Fahad Sani said:

 

x

Is there a single sunni Ulema alive today, who has forbidden combining the hajj and Umrah?

Rightly guided , also means there was a basic grasp of the Sunnah, so as to not make serious blunders.

 

Edited by Tawheed313

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On 7/23/2016 at 0:34 PM, Fahad Sani said:


Rightly guided means those who truly followed the Prophet's foot steps. They lived simple and righteous lives and strove hard for the religion of Allah. Their justice was impartial, their treatment of others was kind and merciful, and they were one with the people.

But this does not mean that they cannot make mistakes. Infact they have done mistakes.

:bismillah:

:salam:

Okay, one can argue this was a one-off disagreement - but what about the corrupt manner in handling the state?

This is not designed to slander Hazrat Uthman.[and any slander against him will be reported. Please do not hijack my thread. I will not tolerate disrespect to symbols of our beloved brothers]. Rather, as a shia muslim, i adore Ali a.s. I love him more than i love my own mother and father. When someone disrespects Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, it hurts me. I often raise these issues, and what i get is a white-washing of history, to play down what i present.  Yesterday i found a hadith (unintentionally) and i would like to see how our brothers and sisters in the ahlus-sunnah interpret it in a way that removes any issue whatsoever, and rather, makes this hadith to be one of love.

I would like you all to read the following hadith:

Narrated Ibn Al-Hanafiya:

If `Ali had spoken anything bad about `Uthman then he would have mentioned the day when some persons came to him and complained about the Zakat officials of `Uthman. `Ali then said to me, "Go to `Uthman and say to him, 'This document contains the regulations of spending the Sadaqa of Allah's Apostle so order your Zakat officials to act accordingly." I took the document to `Uthman. `Uthman said, "Take it away, for we are not in need of it." I returned to `Ali with it and informed him of that. He said, "Put it whence you took it.

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/62/67

 

Points to raise:

 

1.Incase someone tries to play down this incident, the narrator himself has stated that If Ali a.s were to speak ill about Uthman, then he surely would have mentioned this incident. This hi-lights that even the narrator recognised how offensive this was to Ali a.s. Furthermore, the narrator (to sunni's) was not a shia - and hence this is not a shiee distortion.

2. Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s does not feel Hazrat Uthman is conducting the spending of the Sadqah properly, and sends a document where he orders them to abide by the document, which contains the instruction and sunnah of the way Muhammed s.a.w has done so. [Again - rightly guided?].

3. Hazrat Uthman, the third caliph, states 'Take it away, for we are not in need of it'. [The value he places on Ali a.s's advise]

 

This hadith merely corroborates what sunni historians, such as Tabari, as well as a number of other historians and evidence which has reached to us, of the corrupt manner in which the state was run.

Edited by Tawheed313

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On 7/23/2016 at 0:34 PM, Fahad Sani said:


x

Salamunalaykum dear brother, i truly thank you for your effort.

I do wish to ask:

Is there a single sunni Ulema alive today, who has forbidden combining the hajj and Umrah?

Rightly guided , also means there was a basic grasp of the Sunnah, so as to not make serious blunders.

If there is an Ijmah that hajj and umrah can be performed together, is it not a massive blunder to forbid it?

Furthermore, Hazrat Uthaman saw Muhammed s.a.w and saw testimony of Sahaba r.a who testified that they saw Muhammed s.a.w do it, and condone it, and allow it , so much so Ali a.s himself was utterly convinced of it. On what basis is that a sensible ijtihad ?

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Abu bakr umar and Ali may have made mistakes in good intention but uthman willingly ignored sunnah whenever it suited him.

as far as I think only 3 caliphs can be called "rightly guided" in the sense they atleast tried to do the best 

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