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In the Name of God بسم الله
Fahad Sani

Name your children as your Imams did

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41 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

Aren't there better names out there to name your sons than Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman?

We have the names of Ahle Bayt (as) to choose from, just use those.

One of the most important responsibilities of a parent is to give your child a good name. There's far better names out there then the names of those 3.

 

Yes, but our brother in the OP will easily reply, why have 3-4 Imams a.s chosen to name their sons Umar, and Uthman ?

We need another line of reasoning.

Edited by Tawheed313

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7 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

He has come to our house, shiachat,  he is our guest. We should not gang up on our brother, nor make him feel uncomfortable.

I genuinely like you - I do. despite your constantly reporting me for my posts. however I think you are very naive. people like OP are here simply to troll us. he comes to our house under the cloak of a guest but we all know he has already formed his opinions and beliefs and his posts are purely for his own entertainment and enjoyment at mocking us. 

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1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I personally uncomfortable with naming my own children after people who ran away in battle, gave the Prophet Muhammad (saws) grief when he was alive, disobeyed the Caliphate and harmed Fatima (sa) and caused her early death or Arab names of pagan origin. (e.g. Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman)

If I ever felt compelled to use those names,  I'll name myself one of those  names,  not my children. They deserve better @Fahad Sani

Not that what you have written is wrong, or untrue, but there's a more gentler way to explain this to a sunni who absolutely adores and revere's the first three Caliphs.

I hope you know what i mean :)

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13 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

its just (yet another) sneaky way for sunni to try and insult us and deny history. by sunni logic, since an imam had a son named (for example) the name of the second caliph, in their minds that is all the "proof" that they need that the attack on the house did not occur. their arguments have become so weak that this is the level they are having to sink to. 

"praise be to the lord who has made our enemies idiots" - Imam Jafar Sadiq (as)

Yeah, I agree with you. They're getting a little bit more sophisticated and clever in their veiled and subversive attacks on us. Thankfully, through the protection of the Ahle Bayt they are always somehow exposed in the end. 

I'd rather name my sons John or David before I name them Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman or name my daughter Aisha. Just hearing those names sends a nasty shiver down my spine.

What other names did the Imams (as) give their sons?

In fact, weren't all of Imam Husain's (as) sons named Ali and all of his daughters named Fatima? Hmmm...I wonder why he did that? :einstein:

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1 hour ago, Ibn Al-Shahid said:

Brother @narsis has already wrote a beautiful post about this.

 

 

 

 

I was wondering, could it be useful to show the many imami narrators who were named Abu Bakr (qunya), Umar, Uthman, Muawiyah and Yazid, such as in our classical books of ahadith like Al Kafi?

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14 minutes ago, DigitalUmmah said:

in the UK, the most famous serial child murderer was called myra hindley. after she was convicted, english people completely stopped naming their children myra, even though myra is a beautiful name. 

similarly, even though ubaydullah is a beautiful name in itself (servant of god), its association with something so negative means we do not call our children ubaydullah. 

the Imams (as) had their own reasons for naming their children as they did. I dont think there is any hadith where they instruct their shia to name their children after the first 3 caliphs. why name our children after the children of the imams, when we can name them after the imams instead? 

I'm liking some of the ideas you have brought to the table and the way you've  explained things.

I'd also like to add, perhaps in the time of our fifth imam a.s and seventh imam a.s, the name was common , but as time went on(through cultural changes, geographical spread of shias), to the shia's,  the name Ubaydallah may not have been customary in arabia or even where shia islam spread, and hence associated with the evil tyrant, Ubaydallah ibn Ziyad, and hence due to that association, in absence of the name being common or customary, shia's refrained from using that name.

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13 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

Yeah, I agree with you. They're getting a little bit more sophisticated and clever in their veiled and subversive attacks on us. Thankfully, through the protection of the Ahle Bayt they are always somehow exposed in the end. 

I'd rather name my sons John or David before I name them Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman or name my daughter Aisha. Just hearing those names sends a nasty shiver down my spine.

What other names did the Imams (as) give their sons?

In fact, weren't all of Imam Husain's (as) sons named Ali and all of his daughters named Fatima? Hmmm...I wonder why he did that? :einstein:

Whatever you believe about the first three caliphs, of Umulmimineen Aisha, you have to understand this is an open forum, and it is essential to speak in a way where we respect the sanctity of our brothers in the ahlus-sunnah as to symbols they highly revere.

 

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10 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

Not that what you have written is wrong, or untrue, but there's a more gentler way to explain this to a sunni who absolutely adores and revere's the first three Caliphs.

I hope you know what i mean :)

I don't know what you mean and I was being as gentle as possible without sugar-coating my words  or insulting Fahad's intelligence. 

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@Fahad Sani - thank you for your kind post and reminder to name children after the first 3 caliphs.

I was going to name my next born Abu Bakr but cant because of Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi

Then, I figured I would name my next born Umar or at least Farouk but then San Bernandinho shooter was Farouk and Orlando Shooter was Umar so I had to rule that out.

Subsquently, I was going to name my next born Uthman but one of the top named terrorists on US' list of global terrorists is Uthman Al-Ghamdi.

Of course if I had a daughter I could name her Aisha but then Aisha Odeh compromised that name.

I am sure you know that giving children good names is the responsibility of the parents. As much as I want to heed your advice, I feel it would be irresponsible of me to name my children after the first 3 caliphs due to terrorists using these names. To be honest, I am not sure yet if these names cause one to become a terrorist or if terrorists assume these names (chicken-egg situation). I mean I would not want to get stopped at Airport security because of a name mis-match; then there is the bullying at school issue and so.

I hope you understand.

Also, I would like to echo @DigitalUmmah and stress that you should DEFINITELY name your next born Yazid - not after Yazid ibn Muawiya ibn Abu Sufiyan (la'an on all of them) but after Yazid Ibn Sabeet al Abdi and Yazid Ibn Ziad Mohasir e Kandi Behdile Abush Shasa and Yazid Ibn Maghful Jafi who were all martyrs at Kerbala with Imam Hussain.

Inshallah, I promise you 2 things:

1) As soon as terrorists stop using Abu Bakr, Umar & Uthman as their names, I will name my children with these names.

2) As soon as Sunnis stop blowing themselves up for 72 virgins, I will become Sunni because I am dying to pray taraweeh and listen to some soft Zakir Naik sermons - oh wait he just banned by US for inciting terrorism. One more name I can't use now.

@Gaius I. Caesar    @Tawheed313   @BornShia  @skamran110  @Akbar673   @Ibn Al-Shahid    @narsis

@Abbas.

Edited by shiaman14

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13 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

Whatever you believe about the first three caliphs, of Umulmimineen Aisha, you have to understand this is an open forum, and it is essential to speak in a way where we respect the sanctity of our brothers in the ahlus-sunnah as to symbols they highly revere.

 

Yes, you're right this is an open forum and I will speak in a manner which best reflects my opinion on that matter. 

Why are the Sunni's feelings more important that that of a Shia? He came to our forum and we are the hosts. We will act in a decorum of decency but not at the expense of not expressing our opinion on the matter. 

We don't revere his first 3 Caliphs nor do we revere Aisha, did the OP think that he would come here and say simply that Imams (as) named their sons Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman that we Shia would immediately start liking the 3 Usurpers? Not likely.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

Assalam O Alaikum all shia brothers/sisters.

This post is dedicated to @Tawheed313 @skamran110 @BornShia @shiaman14 @yam_110

 

Lets forget about the reason why Imams had named their children as Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. Whatever may be the reason behind this, its not important. Because its an established fact that Imams actually did that.

1. It IS important because it establishes whether a person should be named after certain personalities or not. 

2. An established fact? Really? In a world of polygamy with so many tribal customs, are you making a bold statement that the Imams were the ones who named all of their children? Please share evidence. I know that Imam Ali a.s named one of his sons after Usman b. Maz'oon (NOT Usman b. Affan) but have not yet established that all of the Imams named all of their children. 

 

1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

The most important thing is that being the true lover and follower of Ahlebait you should also name your children as Abu Bakr, umar and Uthman. And I think there is no any big deal in it for a true lover of Ahlebait. Instead of feeling any embarrasment, You should proudly tell your relatives and friends that I have given my son such name out of my love for Ahlebait, as if Ahlebait can give their children these names (Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman & other) then why can't we shias, being their followers.

Yes, there is no embarrassment in deed in naming children Umar or Usman e.t.c. But why do most shias avoid it any ways? Let me explain it by sharing another historical example. Yazid's sons Muawiyah was a lover of Ahl-ul-bayt. His own family killed him for that very reason. So Shias have deep respect for him. However they still do not name their children "Muawiyah" because in today's era the name itself is not linked to that lover of Ahl-ul-bayt. Instead it is popularly linked to the wicked person (father of Yazid) who deliberately oppressed the right of Maula Ali a.s. Get it? 

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@Fahad Sani 

I have a  question for you? ... how come we don't find any of these respected caliphs naming their sons Ali or Hasan or Hussain? Please correct me if I am wrong.

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

DigitalUmmah I dont like yazid at all, I hate him. He did alot of damages to Islam. He is one of the main reason why there are so many conflits b/w us. Advice those who like and defend him. Not everyone among sunnies like that person. He himself was a curse. There is no need to even curse him. and keep in mind I am not doing any taqiyyah :)

NOT TRUE. Yazid father Muawiya said to Mohammad ibn abu Bakr that it was his father who was the first one who created all those damage to Islam.

Either you lack the knowledge of Islam or you are intentionally hiding The TRUTH (Allah)

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2 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

3. No shia names their children Ubaydallah, even though the imams a.s did.

why not?

2 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I personally uncomfortable with naming my own children after people who ran away in battle, gave the Prophet Muhammad (saws) grief when he was alive, disobeyed the Caliphate and harmed Fatima (sa) and caused her early death or Arab names of pagan origin. (e.g. Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman)

If I ever felt compelled to use those names,  I'll name myself one of those  names,  not my children. They deserve better @Fahad Sani

again... did not the sons of Ali, Hassanain, Zainul Abideen etc deserved better?

1 hour ago, DigitalUmmah said:

your views towards yazeed are similar to many shias views towards abu bakr, umar and uthman. and yet, many Imams (as) had friends/ companions called yazid. one of the martyrs at karbala was even called yazeed. 

why is it ok for sunni to not call their children yazid but its not ok for shia to avoid calling their children after the first 3 caliphs? you know hypocrisy is haram yeah?

because none of our prophet's (saw) sons, caliphs' sons and the sons of Ahly bait were called Yazid (la). But the sons of Ahly Bait were Umar, Uthman and Abu Bakr.

If our prophet and his family had named their sons so, then definitely we would have named our sons too.

Secondly, both shia and sunni are unanimous on the bad character of Yazid but not on the caliphs.

Thirdly, yazid was not married to the daughter of any imam but Umar was.

Fourthly, yazid was not the son in law of prophet (saw) but Uthman (ra) was.

Fifthly, yazid did not spare Ahly Bait but Ahly Bayt lived peacefully right under the nose of the caliphs in Medina for decades.

Sixthly, Yazid was not given pledge but the caliphs were.

so you are only comparing apples and oranges.

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2 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I personally uncomfortable with naming my own children after people who ran away in battle, gave the Prophet Muhammad (saws) grief when he was alive, disobeyed the Caliphate and harmed Fatima (sa) and caused her early death or Arab names of pagan origin. (e.g. Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman)

If I ever felt compelled to use those names,  I'll name myself one of those  names,  not my children. They deserve better @Fahad Sani

again... did not the sons of Ali, Hassanain, Zainul Abideen etc deserved better?

2 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

your views towards yazeed are similar to many shias views towards abu bakr, umar and uthman. and yet, many Imams (as) had friends/ companions called yazid. one of the martyrs at karbala was even called yazeed. 

why is it ok for sunni to not call their children yazid but its not ok for shia to avoid calling their children after the first 3 caliphs? you know hypocrisy is haram yeah?

because none of our prophet's (saw) sons, caliphs' sons and the sons of Ahly bait were called Yazid (la). But the sons of Ahly Bait were indeed Umar, Uthman and Abu Bakr (raa).

If our prophet and his family had named their sons so, then definitely we would have named our sons too.

Secondly, both shia and sunni are unanimous on the bad character of Yazid but not on the caliphs.

Thirdly, yazid was not married to the daughter of any imam but Umar was.

Fourthly, yazid was not the son in law of prophet (saw) but Uthman (ra) was.

Fifthly, yazid did not spare Ahly Bait but Ahly Bayt lived peacefully right under the nose of the caliphs in Medina for decades.

Sixthly, Yazid was not given pledge but the caliphs were.

so you are only comparing apples and oranges.

2 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

Aren't there better names out there to name your sons than Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman?

is this question to Ali ibn Abi Talib and other Imams? because their sons are known as Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman.

2 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

We have the names of Ahle Bayt (as) to choose from, just use those.

Are not Abu Bakr ibn Ali, Umar ibn Ali and Uthman Ibn Ali from Ahly bayt?

1 hour ago, Tawheed313 said:

However, today, these names are actually highly associated almost exclusively about the caliphs, and the vast majority if not everyone who calls their child Umar, does so in honour of Umar ibn Al-Khattab

Thus, for a shia today to call their child Ubaydallah, or Umar, is different for one to do it in a time when the name was not exclusively associated for that personality.

I hope you follow what i'm saying?

So by naming their sons these names... sunnis are following the sunnah of Ahly Bayt and not shias.

And that UbayUllah was not married to any princess of Ahly Bayt like Umar ibn al Khattab was.

Also, there was no Umar prior to the alleged crimes of umar in ahly bayt but there was already Ubayullah ibn Abbas ibn Ali prior to the crimes of ubayullah.

Edited by aansoogas

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