Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Fahad Sani

Name your children as your Imams did

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, starlight said:

They did..... with the shias :) 

yes, as shias did not agree to Ahly Bayt on this and said the following...

2 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

Aren't there better names out there to name your sons than Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman?

btw is it not possible that these names were given under Taqiyah?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@aansoogas you are just trolling, either that or you are ignorant.  Go read the history first from the death of Prophet Muhammad (a.s) to the last Ummayad caliph because twice in my posts I mentioned oppression by the ummayads and yet you come here asking : 

9 minutes ago, aansoogas said:

btw is it not possible that these names were given under Taqiyah?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

@Fahad Sani@DigitalUmmah - thank you for your kind post and reminder to name children after the first 3 caliphs.

Inshallah, I promise you 2 things:

1) As soon as terrorists stop using Abu Bakr, Umar & Uthman as their names, I will name my children with these names.

2) As soon as Sunnis stop blowing themselves up for 72 virgins, I will become Sunni because I am dying to pray taraweeh and listen to some soft Zakir Naik sermons - oh wait he just banned by US for inciting terrorism. One more name I can't use now.

@Gaius I. Caesar    @Tawheed313   @BornShia  @skamran110  @Akbar673   @Ibn Al-Shahid    @narsis

@Abbas.

Brother, we are the followers of the ahlulbayt a.s. And i know for certian the ahlulbayt a.s would not allow us to talk in this way. I ask you, as my dear and beloved brother, to reconsider using language like this about sunni's, which is pure sarcasm and does not add any weight to any answer with regards to what the OP is asking.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

Brother, we are the followers of the ahlulbayt a.s. And i know for certian the ahlulbayt a.s would not allow us to talk in this way. I ask you, as my dear and beloved brother, to reconsider using language like this about sunni's, which is pure sarcasm and does not add any weight to any answer with regards to what the OP is asking.

 

Brother -  what part do you believe is sarcasm or untrue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

Brother, we are the followers of the ahlulbayt a.s. And i know for certian the ahlulbayt a.s would not allow us to talk in this way. I ask you, as my dear and beloved brother, to reconsider using language like this about sunni's, which is pure sarcasm and does not add any weight to any answer with regards to what the OP is asking.

 

You claim yourself to be a Shia, but I am doubtful. Don't worry, it is my salvation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, aansoogas said:

because none of our prophet's (saw) sons, caliphs' sons and the sons of Ahly bait were called Yazid (la). But the sons of Ahly Bait were indeed Umar, Uthman and Abu Bakr (raa).

If our prophet and his family had named their sons so, then definitely we would have named our sons too.

Secondly, both shia and sunni are unanimous on the bad character of Yazid but not on the caliphs.

Thirdly, yazid was not married to the daughter of any imam but Umar was.

Fourthly, yazid was not the son in law of prophet (saw) but Uthman (ra) was.

Fifthly, yazid did not spare Ahly Bait but Ahly Bayt lived peacefully right under the nose of the caliphs in Medina for decades.

Sixthly, Yazid was not given pledge but the caliphs were.

so you are only comparing apples and oranges.

well, so far we have only established that Imam Ali (as) named one of his 18 (?) sons uthman after his lifelong friend.

secondly, do you think shia will prefer to name their sons after the imams, or sons of the imams?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

Yes, you're right this is an open forum and I will speak in a manner which best reflects my opinion on that matter. 

Why are the Sunni's feelings more important that that of a Shia? He came to our forum and we are the hosts. We will act in a decorum of decency but not at the expense of not expressing our opinion on the matter. 

We don't revere his first 3 Caliphs nor do we revere Aisha, did the OP think that he would come here and say simply that Imams (as) named their sons Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman that we Shia would immediately start liking the 3 Usurpers? Not likely.

 

 

Very few people on shiachat have spent as much time as i have in real life, on other forums, and even on shia chat, writing refutations as to why we shia's do not agree with the caliphs, or Umm Aisha. .I have sunni family members, sunni friends, many of whom i have engaged in a discussion on these issues. I regularly debate and discuss with sunni's on many forums precisely why we do not revere these personalities.

However, when doing so, i must recognize that they love and revere these people. I do not, but a follower of ale Muhammed asws, and of Muhammed s.a.w needs to understand that, when living on a society where a billion and more people, love these people more than their own mothers and fathers, it is better not to begin to abuse them, mock them, or use inflammatory language towards them.

Despite refuting actions they have done, words they said, many , many times, i have never had to resort to abusing them and using language i know will not open the minds of our sunni brothers towards our view, but only close their minds.

You can produce a cogent, powerful argument , without having to abuse these personalities, or speaking in a way you know is just excess and will only foster secterian discord.

At the very least, understand that there are shias who suffer because of our words. My family members in malaysia have to perform taqqiyah due to their beliefs, and malaysia is far harder on shia's than even saudi arabia. For their sake, let us not, while on our laptops living in the west, think it is brave or even encouraged to use words that would foster discord and cause the disunity of muslims and suffering of many globally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Brother -  what part do you believe is sarcasm or untrue?

"Inshallah, I promise you 2 things:

1) As soon as terrorists stop using Abu Bakr, Umar & Uthman as their names, I will name my children with these names.

2) As soon as Sunnis stop blowing themselves up for 72 virgins, I will become Sunni because I am dying to pray taraweeh and listen to some soft Zakir Naik sermons - oh wait he just banned by US for inciting terrorism. One more name I can't use now."

The above is pure sarcasm, it is insulting, and it gives no weight nor an answer that can be considered as valid in any way to what the OP has asked. Rather, all this answer will do is hurt the OP needlessly and push him further away from shia's, and into the arms of those who are our enemies.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, aansoogas said:

x

 

Dear brother,

According to Bukhari/Muslim,

1. Fatima a.s died angry with Abu Bakr.

2. Fatima stopped speaking to Abu Bakr.

3. Fatima a.s was buried secretly, at night, and even the news of her death and burial was not told to Abu Bakr.

4. While Fatima a.s was still alive, Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s opposed Abu Bakr, and refused to pledge the oath of allegiance.

I am not saying this to be rude, nor offensive, or to defame Abu Bakr in any way, but i am only saying what is contained in books you regard as authentic.

It is written in Saheeh Al Bukhari: "
Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Messenger"
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/57/2

 

Also In Saheeh Al Bukhari:

"So she became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not task to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband `Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself."

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/64/278

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

"Inshallah, I promise you 2 things:

1) As soon as terrorists stop using Abu Bakr, Umar & Uthman as their names, I will name my children with these names.

2) As soon as Sunnis stop blowing themselves up for 72 virgins, I will become Sunni because I am dying to pray taraweeh and listen to some soft Zakir Naik sermons - oh wait he just banned by US for inciting terrorism. One more name I can't use now."

The above is pure sarcasm, it is insulting, and it gives no weight nor an answer that can be considered as valid in any way to what the OP has asked. Rather, all this answer will do is hurt the OP needlessly and push him further away from shia's, and into the arms of those who are our enemies.

 

OMG, shame on you @shiaman14, see what you have done!

You have not needlessly pushed the OP towards terrorism. Don't you feel guilty now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

"Inshallah, I promise you 2 things:

1) As soon as terrorists stop using Abu Bakr, Umar & Uthman as their names, I will name my children with these names.

Brother -  respectfully these are facts. These people actually exist. Another example, people in the US stopped naming their children Osama too. I have a Sunni acquaintance who actually legally changed his son's name after 9/11 because he was called Osama.

 

10 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

 

2) As soon as Sunnis stop blowing themselves up for 72 virgins, I will become Sunni because I am dying to pray taraweeh and listen to some soft Zakir Naik sermons - oh wait he just banned by US for inciting terrorism. One more name I can't use now."

But they are blowing themselves up for virgins and Zakir Naik was just banned.

 

11 minutes ago, Tawheed313 said:

The above is pure sarcasm, it is insulting, and it gives no weight nor an answer that can be considered as valid in any way to what the OP has asked. Rather, all this answer will do is hurt the OP needlessly and push him further away from shia's, and into the arms of those who are our enemies.

All I did was promise OP to follow his advice based on certain criteria I had but if it means so much to you, I promise not name my children after the Caliphs even when the terrorists stop using their names. Are we good?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I genuinely like you - I do. despite your constantly reporting me for my posts. however I think you are very naive. people like OP are here simply to troll us. he comes to our house under the cloak of a guest but we all know he has already formed his opinions and beliefs and his posts are purely for his own entertainment and enjoyment at mocking us. 

Imho, this paticular topic even confuses many shia's [who do not have adequate answers]. In Islam, we have the principle of huznozun, giving people the benefit of the doubt. If his intentions are as you say, let Allah azwj judge him, not us. As far as i am aware, i don't see anyone but a sunni brother in Islam asking a reasonable question.

And even if what you are saying is true, remember the Kindness Hussain a.s showed Hurr r.a, to the extent even the enemy of hussain a.s who led him to the place of his slaughter reformed, turned around, and was one of the first matyrs. It may thus, have also been partly due to the conduct of Imam Hussain a.s

Allah Azwj also says in the Holy Quran: " And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend."

In terms of naivity, i am fully aware of the enemies of shia islam. I have had to do taqqiyah in malaysia, my in-laws are regularly abused for being shia, i was bullied for being a shia in school, and i interact widely, from salafi-forums to other forums, and i have had my fair share of abuse.

But, like Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s, like our Imams a.s, like above all, Muhammed s.a.w, i sought it better to repel wrong , with good. Give people the benefit of the doubt, keep my adhab even if they lose theirs, and look at the greater good and the bigger picture.

I am the most flawed , and i am learning too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DigitalUmmah said:

well, so far we have only established that Imam Ali (as) named one of his 18 (?) sons uthman after his lifelong friend.

secondly, do you think shia will prefer to name their sons after the imams, or sons of the imams?

Is the account by a zaidi shii regarding Uthman bin Mazun (who infact was called to Islam by Abu Bakr himself) authentic as per ithna ashari standards? There is another zaidi scholar al Murshid Billah who says that uthman bin Ali was named after Uthman bin Affan. Now what to do?

Secondly, first imams and then their sons.

1 hour ago, Tawheed313 said:

Dear brother,

According to Bukhari/Muslim,

1. Fatima a.s died angry with Abu Bakr.

2. Fatima stopped speaking to Abu Bakr.

Brother,

The reason for which Fatima (a.s) was not happy with Abu Bakr r.a. was that he did not distribute Fadak as inheritance but kept Fadak as Fay property under custodianship.... AND Ali did the same when he was caliph because that was the right thing to do as per Quran. Anyways, the wordings or situation described in the hadith you are mentioning is not by Fatima herself but by ummi Ayesha that Fatima resumed such attitude till her death. Let us have some more info.

Now, as per zaidi source (apart from another sunni source) just before her death, when Abu Bakr came to know about her bad health, he asked permission to see her and then after getting the same, explained his position to Fatima... then she was satisfied with the explanation of Abu Bakr.

If the above is true, then the statement of ummi Ayesha that "she did not speak till her death" would mean that she resumed that attitude towards Abu Bakr till her death. It does not mean that she never ever talked to Abu Bakr again bcos the same hadith if you keep reading the text afterwards say that "she used to ask Abu Bakr" during those 3-6 months after the demise of Rasool Allah (saw). Since Fatima was not a woman who socialized much, so this time period was not very lengthy as if she was displeased for ages and we believe that she was finally contended at the time of her death.

1 hour ago, Tawheed313 said:

3. Fatima a.s was buried secretly, at night, and even the news of her death and burial was not told to Abu Bakr

Abu Bakr was not present... were salman, Miqdad, Abu Dhar or Ammar? i guess not... why because Lady Fatima was a very modest lady and perhaps she wished to keep her funeral less public. she was buried in the night by her family members.(we read that the wife of Abu Bakr gave her ghusl etc). Those Muslim men from outside the family who were not told, came to know the news perhaps the next morning and offered ghayebana prayer over her.

1 hour ago, Tawheed313 said:

4. While Fatima a.s was still alive, Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s opposed Abu Bakr, and refused to pledge the oath of allegiance.

and afterwards the stance of Ali (ra) changed?

1 hour ago, Tawheed313 said:

I am not saying this to be rude, nor offensive, or to defame Abu Bakr in any way, but i am only saying what is contained in books you regard as authentic.

It is written in Saheeh Al Bukhari: "
Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Messenger (contd here): She used to ask Abu Bakr for her share from the property of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) which he left at Khaibar, and Fadak, and his property at Medina (devoted for charity). Abu Bakr refused to give her that property and said, "I will not leave anything Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to do, because I am afraid that if I left something from the Prophet's tradition, then I would go astray."

Since the topic has gone to Fadak issue:

The question is that why did Ali (ra) do what Abu Bakr (ra) did with Fadak?

Why have Imams said that Fay (Fadak which shias accept as Fay) always go from one leader to another.

What uses Quran give for Fay property?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, starlight said:

@aansoogas  why do you think the name 'adolf' sharply declined and then disappeared after 1942? 

*1945,  and it still lingers and enjoys some popularity in Spain as "Adolfo"  but outside of Spain,  it's a taboo to name your son "Adolf"

@aansoogas

Sorry, I was away, I don't quite understand your question but what could be better than being raised by Ali (as), Hassan (as) or Zain al-Abidin (as)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

At the very least, understand that there are shias who suffer because of our words. My family members in malaysia have to perform taqqiyah due to their beliefs, and malaysia is far harder on shia's than even saudi arabia. For their sake, let us not, while on our laptops living in the west, think it is brave or even encouraged to use words that would foster discord and cause the disunity of muslims and suffering of many globally.

Brother - I too am well aware of the plight of the Shias in Malaysia,  Indonesia and other Muslim countries. I agree that the Caliphs and Wives of the Prophet should not be insulted despite anyone's opinion of them.

However, it is also not wise to think the persecution of the shias is because of this or that it will stop if the Shias stop doing tabarra (distancing from the enemies of the AhlulBayt). Let's say we stop tabarra - what will happen next?

A) They will continue to kill us for the next thing they dont like (may be matam or majlis or Ali un wali Allah)

B) They stop killing us and we live happily ever after

They wont rest until they kill all 200+million (mashallah) of us. They think of us as weak because they only see our Hussaini patience. God help them if our Hussaini patience turns into Abbasi fury.

We digress so perhaps a new thread on this topic is required.

Edited by shiaman14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

your views towards yazeed are similar to many shias views towards abu bakr, umar and uthman. and yet, many Imams (as) had friends/ companions called yazid. one of the martyrs at karbala was even called yazeed. 

why is it ok for sunni to not call their children yazid but its not ok for shia to avoid calling their children after the first 3 caliphs? you know hypocrisy is haram yeah?

Its not about their friends/companions. Its about their own children. We dont name yazid bcoz none of the Imams did that. Even there is no any weak narration which confirms that, i think. Read my post again I said reason is not important. And its not the subject of the post. Forget the reason, accept the fact and apply it if you can. There is no compulsion.
 

13 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

Aren't there better names out there to name your sons than Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman?

We have the names of Ahle Bayt (as) to choose from, just use those.

One of the most important responsibilities of a parent is to give your child a good name. There's far better names out there then the names of those 3.

 

Ask the same question to your previous Imams, through your current Imam with the help of your marja that  why they did not gave better names to some of their children, He will better answer you :).

Because I cannot blame ahlebait on this. As they actually named.

12 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

Dear brother,

I have not yet a shia who has named their child Ubaydallah, despite the 5th Imam a.s (grandson of Hussain a.s) and seventh Imam a.s (grandson of 5th Imam a.s and great-great-grandson of Hussain a.s) , naming their children Ubaydallah.

This because perhaps then , names like Umar and Ubaydallah were common, or atleast, when someone named their child by the name, it would not automatically be assumed it was after only the Caliphs.

However, today, these names are actually highly associated almost exclusively about the caliphs, and the vast majority if not everyone who calls their child Umar, does so in honour of Umar ibn Al-Khattab

Thus, for a shia today to call their child Ubaydallah, or Umar, is different for one to do it in a time when the name was not exclusively associated for that personality.

I hope you follow what i'm saying?

I think first Imam who named his son ubaidullah was Maula Ali a.s. Others just followed him. Same is the case with names of abu bakr, umar and uthman. And still today these names are very common. And I am not assuming that it was after only the caliphs. I believe that :)

Even during the lives of Imams these names were associated with the caliphs. Actually there were two caliphs with name Umar. remember umar bin abdul aziz.

Reasoning behind naming is not my point of focus. But i would like to share just one narration on the idea of reasoning.

Zaydi Shia scholar of Hadith al-Murshid Billah narrates in al-Amali al-Ithneeniyyah 1/488, That It was Rasoolullah who named hassan and hussain and muhsin, while Ali named some of his children as umar and Uthman.

[We were told by abu al-Husayn Muhammad bin Ishaq bin Muhammad bin Qadawayh al-`Adl, after I narrated in front of him in the Masjid of al-Kufa, he said: `Ali bin `Abdul-Rahim bin abi al-Sarriy al-Bakkari told me, he said: Muhammad bin `Abdullah -meaning al-Hadrami- told me, he said: `Abbad bin Ahmad bin `Abdul-Rahman al-`Arzami told me, he said: My uncle told me, from his father, from `Amro bin Qays, from `Atiyyah, from abu Sa`eed al-Khudari that he said: “I saw a young boy with beautiful bangs, by Allah I was in doubt as to whether he was a boy or a female servant, then I passed by one who was even better looking as he sat besides `Ali, I asked: “May Allah make you safe, who is this young one besides you?” He replied: “This is `Uthman bin `Ali, I named him after `Uthman bin `Affan, and I had also named others after `Umar bin al-Khattab and al-`Abbas the uncle of Rasul-Allah (saw). I have also named after the best of creation Muhammad (saw), as for al-Hasan and al-Husayn and Muhassin, it was Rasul-Allah (saw) who named them and did `Aqiqah and shaved their heads and donated an equal weight etc…]

 

12 hours ago, DigitalUmmah said:

I genuinely like you - I do. despite your constantly reporting me for my posts. however I think you are very naive. people like OP are here simply to troll us. he comes to our house under the cloak of a guest but we all know he has already formed his opinions and beliefs and his posts are purely for his own entertainment and enjoyment at mocking us. 

Its your assumption brother. It may or may not be true. You dont know what is in my heart. And if you think that I am here for entertainment and enjoyment then why you are entertaining me? Visit my profile and check all topics that I have started. Almost all have conclusive remarks. Most of them are in positive sense.

12 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

Yeah, I agree with you. They're getting a little bit more sophisticated and clever in their veiled and subversive attacks on us. Thankfully, through the protection of the Ahle Bayt they are always somehow exposed in the end. 

I'd rather name my sons John or David before I name them Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman or name my daughter Aisha. Just hearing those names sends a nasty shiver down my spine.

What other names did the Imams (as) give their sons?

In fact, weren't all of Imam Husain's (as) sons named Ali and all of his daughters named Fatima? Hmmm...I wonder why he did that? :einstein:

Realy. It means your Imaan is more than Ammar bin Yasir (one of the ideal shia of Maula Ali). Compare your attitude and beleif with him. Check this.

Narrated 'Amr bin Ghalib:
that a man spoke negatively of 'Aishah before 'Ammar bin Yasir so he said: "Be gone as one despicable and rejected! Do you insult the beloved of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ)?" http://www.sunnah.com/urn/637760

Narrated Abu Maryam `Abdullah bin Ziyad Al-Aasadi:

When Talha, AzZubair and `Aisha moved to Basra, `Ali sent `Ammar bin Yasir and Hasan bin `Ali who came to us at Kufa and ascended the pulpit. Al-Hasan bin `Ali was at the top of the pulpit and `Ammar was below Al-Hasan. We all gathered before him. I heard `Ammar saying, "`Aisha has moved to Al-Busra. By Allah! She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter. But Allah has put you to test whether you obey Him (Allah) or her (`Aisha). http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/92/51

Its a humble request be a shia like ammar bin yasir. Dont prefer your emotions over reality.
12 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

@Fahad Sani - thank you for your kind post and reminder to name children after the first 3 caliphs.

I was going to name my next born Abu Bakr but cant because of Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi

Then, I figured I would name my next born Umar or at least Farouk but then San Bernandinho shooter was Farouk and Orlando Shooter was Umar so I had to rule that out.

Subsquently, I was going to name my next born Uthman but one of the top named terrorists on US' list of global terrorists is Uthman Al-Ghamdi.

Of course if I had a daughter I could name her Aisha but then Aisha Odeh compromised that name.

I am sure you know that giving children good names is the responsibility of the parents. As much as I want to heed your advice, I feel it would be irresponsible of me to name my children after the first 3 caliphs due to terrorists using these names. To be honest, I am not sure yet if these names cause one to become a terrorist or if terrorists assume these names (chicken-egg situation). I mean I would not want to get stopped at Airport security because of a name mis-match; then there is the bullying at school issue and so.

I hope you understand.

Also, I would like to echo @DigitalUmmah and stress that you should DEFINITELY name your next born Yazid - not after Yazid ibn Muawiya ibn Abu Sufiyan (la'an on all of them) but after Yazid Ibn Sabeet al Abdi and Yazid Ibn Ziad Mohasir e Kandi Behdile Abush Shasa and Yazid Ibn Maghful Jafi who were all martyrs at Kerbala with Imam Hussain.

Inshallah, I promise you 2 things:

1) As soon as terrorists stop using Abu Bakr, Umar & Uthman as their names, I will name my children with these names.

2) As soon as Sunnis stop blowing themselves up for 72 virgins, I will become Sunni because I am dying to pray taraweeh and listen to some soft Zakir Naik sermons - oh wait he just banned by US for inciting terrorism. One more name I can't use now.

@Gaius I. Caesar    @Tawheed313   @BornShia  @skamran110  @Akbar673   @Ibn Al-Shahid    @narsis

@Abbas.

you are always welcomed my brother. :)

I want to add one more line to your reasoning.

That you should also not name your children muhammad because of muhammad bin abdul wahab. As he and his followers are a big burden on most of shias.

You are stressing me to name my son yazid, but none of the Imams did that. I am advicing you to follow what ahlebait actually did regardless of the reason behind it, and i am not forcing you to do that. While you are forcing and stressing me to do what ahlebait have not done. Topic is name your children as imams did, not as their followers of that time did. You have to follow Imams not their followers.

I am neither forcing nor even suggesting you to become sunni and I will never do that. Trust me. I am only advicing you that be a shia but like ammar bin yasir, like ibn abbas, like salman farsi, like miqdad, like jabir bin adullah. They were the ideal shias. Follow them.

12 hours ago, Akbar673 said:

Yes, you're right this is an open forum and I will speak in a manner which best reflects my opinion on that matter. 

Why are the Sunni's feelings more important that that of a Shia? He came to our forum and we are the hosts. We will act in a decorum of decency but not at the expense of not expressing our opinion on the matter. 

We don't revere his first 3 Caliphs nor do we revere Aisha, did the OP think that he would come here and say simply that Imams (as) named their sons Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman that we Shia would immediately start liking the 3 Usurpers? Not likely.

 

 

Just apply this narration of Maula Ali on three caliphs. if they really were usurpers, apostates, innovators etc then why maula Ali had not taken any action, why he was silent and was supporting them in their wrong doings.

 Ibrahim al-Taimi reported on the authority of his father:
'Ali b. Abi Talib (Allah be pleased with him) addressed us and said: He who thought that we have besides the Holy Qur'an anything else that we recite, he told a lie. And this document which is hanging by the sheath of the sword contains but the ages of the camels, and the nature of the wounds. He (Hadrat 'Ali) reported Allah's Apostle (?) as saying: Medina is sacred from 'Air to Thaur; So if anyone makes an innovation or accommodates an innovator, the curse of Allah, the angels, and all persons will fall upon him, and Allah will not accept any obligatory or supererogatory act as recompense from them. And the protection granted by the Muslims is one and must be respected by the humblest of them. If anyone makes a false claim to paternity, or being a client of other than his own masters, there is upon him the curse of Allah, the angels, and all the people. Allah will not accept from him any recompense in the form of obligatory acts or supererogatory acts. Sahih Muslim 1370 a http://sunnah.com/muslim/15/531

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Abbas. said:

1. It IS important because it establishes whether a person should be named after certain personalities or not. 

2. An established fact? Really? In a world of polygamy with so many tribal customs, are you making a bold statement that the Imams were the ones who named all of their children? Please share evidence. I know that Imam Ali a.s named one of his sons after Usman b. Maz'oon (NOT Usman b. Affan) but have not yet established that all of the Imams named all of their children. 

 

Yes, there is no embarrassment in deed in naming children Umar or Usman e.t.c. But why do most shias avoid it any ways? Let me explain it by sharing another historical example. Yazid's sons Muawiyah was a lover of Ahl-ul-bayt. His own family killed him for that very reason. So Shias have deep respect for him. However they still do not name their children "Muawiyah" because in today's era the name itself is not linked to that lover of Ahl-ul-bayt. Instead it is popularly linked to the wicked person (father of Yazid) who deliberately oppressed the right of Maula Ali a.s. Get it? 

It should be named, as ahlebait did. and who is saying all imams had named all their children as abu bakr, umar, uthman. Again I am saying forget about the reason just accept the reality. if there is no any embarrasment then do it. Why are you following or considering views of other shias. Follow ahlebait. They never named any son, yazid and muawiya, we sunnies are following the same. there are very few sunnies who may be doing this. But majority of sunnies is not considering them, they are with ahlebait.

11 hours ago, starlight said:

@Fahad Sani 

I have a  question for you? ... how come we don't find any of these respected caliphs naming their sons Ali or Hasan or Hussain? Please correct me if I am wrong.

ispite of this ahlebait named their sons as abu bakr. umar and uthman. Alhamdulillah.

10 hours ago, BornShia said:

OMG, shame on you @shiaman14, see what you have done!

You have not needlessly pushed the OP towards terrorism. Don't you feel guilty now!

There is no need to feel guilty. He is just expressing what he has in heart. Its good that he is following his heart, and not doing taqiyyah.

10 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Brother -  respectfully these are facts. These people actually exist. Another example, people in the US stopped naming their children Osama too. I have a Sunni acquaintance who actually legally changed his son's name after 9/11 because he was called Osama.

 

But they are blowing themselves up for virgins and Zakir Naik was just banned.

 

All I did was promise OP to follow his advice based on certain criteria I had but if it means so much to you, I promise not name my children after the Caliphs even when the terrorists stop using their names. Are we good?

may be because of fear as people of US dont like usama. But we ahlul sunnah love three caliphs and other true sahah of Prophet s.a.w, we will not harm you if you name your children on their names.

10 hours ago, Tawheed313 said:

 

Dear brother,

According to Bukhari/Muslim,

1. Fatima a.s died angry with Abu Bakr.

2. Fatima stopped speaking to Abu Bakr.

3. Fatima a.s was buried secretly, at night, and even the news of her death and burial was not told to Abu Bakr.

4. While Fatima a.s was still alive, Ali ibn Abi Talib a.s opposed Abu Bakr, and refused to pledge the oath of allegiance.

I am not saying this to be rude, nor offensive, or to defame Abu Bakr in any way, but i am only saying what is contained in books you regard as authentic.

It is written in Saheeh Al Bukhari: "
Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Messenger"
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/57/2

 

Also In Saheeh Al Bukhari:

"So she became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not task to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband `Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself."

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/64/278

 

 

 

 

Brother, you are changing the topic. Fadak has nothing to do with naming children.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

I am neither forcing nor even suggesting you to become sunni and I will never do that. Trust me. I am only advicing you that be a shia but like ammar bin yasir, like ibn abbas, like salman farsi, like miqdad, like jabir bin adullah. They were the ideal shias. Follow them.

Do you consider yourself a shia like those you just named? Is there something you disagree with when it comes to those people?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

I want to add one more line to your reasoning.

That you should also not name your children muhammad because of muhammad bin abdul wahab. As he and his followers are a big burden on most of shias.

You are right in that Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab was an evil man and a nasibi and is in the depths of hell. But you are not asking us to name our children Muhammad. You are asking us to name them after the first 3 caliphs. Are you equating them (3 caliphs) to the Prophet now? Or do you want us to name our children on the 3 caliphs names ahead of MuhammaD.

The Prophet + 12 imams are named Muhammad (4), Ali (4) Hasan (2), Hussain (1), Jafar(1) , Musa(1). And I am sure you will agree that Abbas is also a revered name after the Prophet's relative and Imam Ali's son. Then we also have esteemed sahaba such as Ammar Yasir, Salman Farsi, Miqdad and Jabir. Here is my promise, all shias or at least I will name my 12th son Abu Umar Al-Ghani after the first 3 caliphs. Does this work? This shows my reverence to the Ahlebait and also the Caliphs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

may be because of fear as people of US dont like usama. But we ahlul sunnah love three caliphs and other true sahah of Prophet s.a.w, we will not harm you if you name your children on their names.

You may yet recieve a Nobel Peace prize brother for solving the shia-killing crisis. Are you saying any shia that is named after the first 3 caliphs will never be killed by these terrorists? Well call me Abu Umar Al-Ghani from this day forward. At least I won't have to keep looking over my shoulder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

It should be named, as ahlebait did. and who is saying all imams had named all their children as abu bakr, umar, uthman.

You said it yourself. Or are you going to deny it now? Go read your post which I quoted earlier. See, this is the level of sincerity and seriousness you bring to the discussion. You are so busy scheming to enforce your ideas upon others that you keep on forgetting your previous stance on the issue. 

16 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Again I am saying forget about the reason just accept the reality. if there is no any embarrasment then do it. Why are you following or considering views of other shias. Follow ahlebait. They never named any son, yazid and muawiya, we sunnies are following the same. there are very few sunnies who may be doing this. But majority of sunnies is not considering them, they are with ahlebait.

wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==I am going to make it as simple as humanly possible this time in the hope that you understand and respect opposing argument. In today's era, we don't marry multiple women from different tribes often far away from reach and we do not have 12-18 children. The one or few marriages that are possible become quite special and so do the off springs that these relationships bring forth. Therefore naturally the parents want to either have a special name for their child or, as is custom among many Muslims, have some kind of an association with the name. In the case of latter, the first preference of shias is the Ahl-ul-bayt. Second preference goes to well known loyal followers of Ahl-ul-bayt who made contributions to Islam. Third preference may be of personal nature. For example, I may choose to name one of my kids after a very close childhood sunni friend who died fighting for a just cause and who may happen to have the name Umar. This is purely a personal choice which has got nothing to do with me being shia/sunni, nor does it have anything to do with the children of Ahl-ul-bayt nor the first 3 caliphs. It's a decision based on human emotion and the friendships and bonds we develop in life.

You on the other hand are proposing that shias should just name their children after one of the many children of Ahl-ul-bayt who are neither well known to have made any special contribution to Islam nor are they popular for their close association with the Ahl-ul-bayt. I mean if I want my child to have an association with a historical figure, I would rather name him after the child of Abu Bakr (Muhammad b. Abu Bakr) because at least history shares a glimpse of his life and how he stood by the side of Imam Ali. So please, either educate us by sharing reliable historical accounts on how Ahl-ul-bayt named their children after the first 3 calphs whom they adored so much OR please bring forth reliable historical evidence mentioning the contributions of those children of Ahl-ul-bayt towards Islam or their strong affiliation/association with the Ahl-ul-Bayt. And provided you are able to establish the latter with reliable evidence the next step is to spread it equally among sunnis and shias so as to highlight and differentiate those personalities from the sunni caliphs. This is the only way you could find new generations of shias being accommodating towards your proposal.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Abbas. said:

You said it yourself. Or are you going to deny it now? Go read your post which I quoted earlier. See, this is the level of sincerity and seriousness you bring to the discussion. You are so busy scheming to enforce your ideas upon others that you keep on forgetting your previous stance on the issue. 

I am going to make it as simple as humanly possible this time in the hope that you understand and respect opposing argument. In today's era, we don't marry multiple women from different tribes often far away from reach and we do not have 12-18 children. The one or few marriages that are possible become quite special and so do the off springs that these relationships bring forth. Therefore naturally the parents want to either have a special name for their child or, as is custom among many Muslims, have some kind of an association with the name. In the case of latter, the first preference of shias is the Ahl-ul-bayt. Second preference goes to well known loyal followers of Ahl-ul-bayt who made contributions to Islam. Third preference may be of personal nature. For example, I may choose to name one of my kids after a very close childhood sunni friend who died fighting for a just cause and who may happen to have the name Umar. This is purely a personal choice which has got nothing to do with me being shia/sunni, nor does it have anything to do with the children of Ahl-ul-bayt nor the first 3 caliphs. It's a decision based on human emotion and the friendships and bonds we develop in life.

You on the other hand are proposing that shias should just name their children after one of the many children of Ahl-ul-bayt who are neither well known to have made any special contribution to Islam nor are they popular for their close association with the Ahl-ul-bayt. I mean if I want my child to have an association with a historical figure, I would rather name him after the child of Abu Bakr (Muhammad b. Abu Bakr) because at least history shares a glimpse of his life and how he stood by the side of Imam Ali. So please, either educate us by sharing reliable historical accounts on how Ahl-ul-bayt named their children after the first 3 calphs whom they adored so much OR please bring forth reliable historical evidence mentioning the contributions of those children of Ahl-ul-bayt towards Islam or their strong affiliation/association with the Ahl-ul-Bayt. And provided you are able to establish the latter with reliable evidence the next step is to spread it equally among sunnis and shias so as to highlight and differentiate those personalities from the sunni caliphs. This is the only way you could find new generations of shias being accommodating towards your proposal.  

I for one promised to name my 12th son Abu Umar Al-Ghani in honor of the first 3 caliphs. As long as Allah (set) blesses me with 12 sons of course.

At least I am off the hook with OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Fadak has nothing to do with naming children.

It does actually. We live in time where the hatred of these individuals who opressed Ahlulbait have increased so high, that just mention their name makes people angry. This of course does not mean we can't name our children by those names mentioned in Op, but who really name them by those names, when we have Fatimah, Muhammad, Ali, Husain, Hasan, Ja'far, Ahmed, Zainab, Mariem and rest of Prophets names to choose that give us joy just by hearing them and make us remember these individuals.

Edited by Dhulfikar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do the sunni worship names of 3 caliphs?

keeping in view the posts presented by sunnis suggesting and forcing the shias to name their children on 3 caliphs, it confirm us that they worship these names, even though during the discussion in these threads they are not able to quote a single verse of quran where the principle of selection of the prophet, leaders, caliphs and successors of the  prophet by the people by shura / consultation is justified.

For the people who take, follow or worship the names the following verses are found in the quran:

What does the Quran indicates for the names taken by the people?

[Hud] said, "Already have defilement and anger fallen upon you from your Lord. Do you dispute with me concerning [mere] names you have named them, you and your fathers, for which Allah has not sent down any authority? Then wait; indeed, I am with you among those who wait." (7:70)

So have you considered al-Lat and al-'UzzaAnd Manat, the third - the other one? (53:19,20)

They are not but [mere] names you have named them - you and your forefathers - for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance. (53:23)

Thus these names for 3 Idols and alike are devised by the fore fathers of the people without any authority, and they follow assumptions and conjectures. These names certainly do not have any authority for  taking them in the absence of verses of quran justifying the principle of selection of successor of the prophet or caliph by the people by shura / consultation. 

The verses of Quran quoted for example that how does Quran mention it disgusting to obey, follow or take the names that do not have any authenticity by the vres of quran.

And We have certainly sent down to you distinct verses and examples from those who passed on before you and an admonition for those who fear Allah . (24:34)

And We have certainly presented for the people in this Qur'an from every [kind of] example - that they might remember. (39:27)

Wassalam

Edited by skamran110

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am as sincere in my question as OP is in this thread.

I) Did Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi become the head of ISIS because of his name or II) did he become the head of ISIS and then assume this name?

I) if this is the case, then was there a Saqifah type event where they decide that he should become the leader since he is called Abu Bakr?

II) if this, then did he assume this name so that he could kill Muslims for apostasy much like the first Caliph did during the Ridda Wars?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/8/2016 at 7:03 PM, Fahad Sani said:

Assalam O Alaikum all shia brothers/sisters.

This post is dedicated to @Tawheed313 @skamran110 @BornShia @shiaman14 @yam_110

 

Lets forget about the reason why Imams had named their children as Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. Whatever may be the reason behind this, its not important.

 

 

 

 

 

This is your way, I mean almost all sunnies way to forget the reason but we as follower of Ahlul albait we think about the reason, why one Imam called his son such a name(like Kholafa) and if he did so, did he advise us to do that? 

The most important point is names in today life are most about remembering good names, more than a name, then this is natural for me and all other Shia not to name my son by the name of killer of Fatima alzahra PBUH I mean first khalif and second one or not to name my daughter the person who fought Imam Ali PBUH and did not allow Imam Husain to bury his brother in his house and so.

Therefore we look at the reason when we look at the reason we don't kill other Muslim by the name takfir as your Kholafa did( first khalife sent Khalid ibn valid to Malik ibn novire because he didn't give allegiance to the Khalife and Khalid killed him and abused his wife and after this incident Abu bakr did nothing) this is your background and this is natural you and your fellow never think, because thinking hurt you, by thinking you find nothing value in your history and you can not continue in your way then if you do not want to think let's us think...

Edited by hadi313

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Imam Sadiq said:

وَيَجِبُ لِلوَلَدِ عَلى والِدِهِ ثَلاثُ خِصالٍ: اخْتِيارُهُ لِوالِدَتِهِ وَتَحْسِينُ اسْمِهِ وَالمُبالَغَةُ في تَأدِيبِهِ.

“Three rights for the child are incumbent upon his father: selecting a (good) mother for him, giving him a good name, and exerting the utmost effort in raising him well.”2

https://www.al-islam.org/divine-perspective-on-rights-a-commentary-of-imam-sajjads-treatise-of-rights/right-n-24-right-child

Name of the daughter of Prophet Muhammad(pbuhahp) and the Names of the Sons of the Imams(as)

Prophet Muhammad (pbuhahp)

Imam Ali Al-Ameeril Mo'mineen (AS)

Sayyeda Fatima Az-Zahra (AS)

Imam Hasan Al-Mujtaba (AS)

Imam Husain As-Shaheed (AS)

Imam Zain-ul-Abideeen (AS)

Imam Muhammad Al-Baqir (AS)

Imam Ja'far As-Saadiq (AS)

Imam Musa Al-Kazim (AS)

Imam Ali Ar-Reza (AS)

Imam Muhammad At-Taqi (AS)

Imam Ali An-Naqi (AS)

Imam Hasan Al-Askari (AS)

Imam Muhammad Al-Mahdi (AS)

*****

Sayedda Zaynab bint Ali ibn Abi Talib(as)

Abu Fazil Al Abbas ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib(as)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Fahad Sani,

Dear brother - I want to caution you against ghuluw. You are stressing for us to follow the sunnah of the Ahlebayt and completely ignoring the sunnah of the Prophet. The love and respect we have for the Ahlebayt is because of their relationship to the Prophet.

Now let's take a look at the sunnah of the Prophet:

1) he named his son's Qasim and Ibrahim. In addition Imam Hasan and Imam Hussain were called Ibn Rasoolallah and named by the Prophet. Since AhleSunnahWalJamah claim to follow the sunnah of the Prophet, should all sunni boys be given these names?

2) we know for a fact the Prophet had daughter named Fatima. There are some disagreements about Zainab and Umm Khultum but let's go with this. Since AhleSunnahWalJamah claim to follow the sunnah of the Prophet, should all sunni girls be given these names?

3) the Prophet's first and most favored wife was named Khadhija. Since AhleSunnahWalJamah claim to follow the sunnah of the Prophet, should all sunni men marry women named Khadhija?

Asking shia to name our children Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman would be contrary to the sunnah of the Prophet. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...