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In the Name of God بسم الله

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Assalam o Alaikum, Wa Rehmatullah, Wa Barakatuhu.

 

The most important, the most fundamental belief of Islam and the thing that causes one to enter Islam is belief in Tawheed (Oneness of Allah).

"La ilaha illALLAH", There is no deity (khuda, god) except Allah.

But what is meaning of "illah"? what are the things or characteristics that make someone "illah". Have you ever pondered over this thing? Answer is given by Allah in Quran, Surah Naml ayah 59 to 64.

If someone's belief in Tawheed is correct as per teachings of Quran and Sunnah, then his/her other beliefs and customs/practices will also be correct or will have only a little problem. On the other hand if belief in Tawheed becomes wrong in any manner, then all other beliefs and customs will also have some problems. Because its the foundation of Islam, all other things come after this. For example consider the Jews and Christians, their main problem is their belief in Tawheed. Similarly there are many muslims (from both shia & sunni) who have some problems in their Tawheed. Read carefully.

Surah Naml, Chapter 27, Verses 59-64, Translation: Sahih International.

  - An-Naml: Verse 59
قُلِ الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ وَسَلَامٌ عَلَىٰ عِبَادِهِ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَىٰ ۗ آللَّهُ خَيْرٌ أَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ
Say, [O Muhammad], "Praise be to Allah , and peace upon His servants whom He has chosen. Is Allah better or what they associate with Him?"

  - An-Naml: Verse 60
أَمَّنْ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ وَأَنْزَلَ لَكُمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَاءً فَأَنْبَتْنَا بِهِ حَدَائِقَ ذَاتَ بَهْجَةٍ مَا كَانَ لَكُمْ أَنْ تُنْبِتُوا شَجَرَهَا ۗ أَإِلَٰهٌ مَعَ اللَّهِ ۚ بَلْ هُمْ قَوْمٌ يَعْدِلُونَ
[More precisely], is He [not best] who created the heavens and the earth and sent down for you rain from the sky, causing to grow thereby gardens of joyful beauty which you could not [otherwise] have grown the trees thereof? Is there a deity with Allah ? [No], but they are a people who ascribe equals [to Him].

  - An-Naml: Verse 61
أَمَّنْ جَعَلَ الْأَرْضَ قَرَارًا وَجَعَلَ خِلَالَهَا أَنْهَارًا وَجَعَلَ لَهَا رَوَاسِيَ وَجَعَلَ بَيْنَ الْبَحْرَيْنِ حَاجِزًا ۗ أَإِلَٰهٌ مَعَ اللَّهِ ۚ بَلْ أَكْثَرُهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ
Is He [not best] who made the earth a stable ground and placed within it rivers and made for it firmly set mountains and placed between the two seas a barrier? Is there a deity with Allah ? [No], but most of them do not know.

  - An-Naml: Verse 62
أَمَّنْ يُجِيبُ الْمُضْطَرَّ إِذَا دَعَاهُ وَيَكْشِفُ السُّوءَ وَيَجْعَلُكُمْ خُلَفَاءَ الْأَرْضِ ۗ أَإِلَٰهٌ مَعَ اللَّهِ ۚ قَلِيلًا مَا تَذَكَّرُونَ

Is He [not best] who responds to the desperate one when he calls upon Him and removes evil and makes you inheritors of the earth? Is there a deity with Allah ? Little do you remember.

  - An-Naml: Verse 63
أَمَّنْ يَهْدِيكُمْ فِي ظُلُمَاتِ الْبَرِّ وَالْبَحْرِ وَمَنْ يُرْسِلُ الرِّيَاحَ بُشْرًا بَيْنَ يَدَيْ رَحْمَتِهِ ۗ أَإِلَٰهٌ مَعَ اللَّهِ ۚ تَعَالَى اللَّهُ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ
Is He [not best] who guides you through the darknesses of the land and sea and who sends the winds as good tidings before His mercy? Is there a deity with Allah ? High is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.

  - An-Naml: Verse 64
أَمَّنْ يَبْدَأُ الْخَلْقَ ثُمَّ يُعِيدُهُ وَمَنْ يَرْزُقُكُمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۗ أَإِلَٰهٌ مَعَ اللَّهِ ۚ قُلْ هَاتُوا بُرْهَانَكُمْ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ صَادِقِينَ
Is He [not best] who begins creation and then repeats it and who provides for you from the heaven and earth? Is there a deity with Allah ? Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."


If anyone apply/consider any of the above things/attributes as taught by Allah, for anyone except HIM then its like he/she has considered or taken that person/thing as an "illah" (deity). Thus he/she has commited shirk (i.e ascribed partners to Allah). Shirk is the only unforgivable sin, see Surah Nisa 48 and 116, except for those who repent, correct way of repentance is in Surah Nahl 119.

It is the most important and basic obligation muslims owe to themselves, that to know and understand the meaning of shirk, its seriousness and its different types, so that our Tawheed become firm and complete.

CAUTION: Beware of those among both the shias and sunnies who attribute such things to Ahlebait and other pious servants of Allah.

Jazak Allah Khairan.

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51 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Shirk is the only unforgivable sin,

 

“Iblis worshipped Allah for six thousand years, while we do not know whether it was the years of this world or of the years of the hereafter6”

So, Iblis had neither any defect in the principle of belief in Allah’s being the Creator, or in belief in Allah’s Lordship in creation and nor in belief in ma’ad. But still he falls so much! Why? Because he does not believe in Allah’s Lordship in Law-giving (Divine legislation) and docs not regard Allah’s command to be obeyed unquestionably, unless Allah’s command would be consistent with (Ibis’s) own thought and desire." 2

 

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57 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

For example consider the Jews and Christians, their main problem is their belief in Tawheed.

I thought that Jews share the same belief in tawheed as Muslims.

Now, before you respond with, The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah" (Quran 9:30), I challenge you to find a single Jew who takes this statement literally. In fact, according to the Jewish Encyclopedia, all of the pious including Ezra are the children of God. 

Edited by Ali6
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57 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

Because its the foundation of Islam, all other things come after this. For example consider the Jews and Christians, their main problem is their belief in Tawheed. Similarly there are many muslims (from both shia & sunni) who have some problems in their Tawheed. Read carefully.

All religions including Jews, Christians, Hindus ..., all these believe in Tawhid like the Muslims do.

It is the definition of Tawhid, which has lead to plenty of wars. Everyone thinks that their definition of Tawhid is correct, and everyone else is wrong.

Add to that the Dawa, which tells others that your religion is wrong, but my sect/cult is correct. Therefore, I invite you to my sect/cult.

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

"La ilaha illALLAH", There is no deity (khuda, god) except Allah.

 

Hadith Silsilat al-Dhahab in Neyshabur

Hadith Silsilat al-Dhahab (Golden Chain)3 in Neyshabur

People of Neyshabur were eagerly looking forward to seeing Imam al-Ridha (as). At his arrival they asked him to stay on for a while longer so they could better see the charming and dignified countenance of the Prophet (S)'s grandson. Having dressed quite simply, the holy Imam (as) stood before the people.

Upon seeing the Imam (as), those people let out a cheerful chanting. When Imam al-Ridha (as) began to speak, two of the hadith memorizers named Abudhar‘a and Muhammad b. Aslam bade people to keep silent, and restated the graceful and elegant words of the holy Imam (as) loudly enough for all to hear. Imam al-Ridha (as) expressed a hadith regarding the unity and oneness of the Exalted Allah as follows:

“The statement La illaha illa Allah is My strong fortress, whoever says it will enter this fortress, and if he enters it, he will be safeguarded from the punishment of the Judgment Day.” And then, when his retinue were about to set off, he looked out of the camel litter. People found out that the Imam (as) intended to say something. Once again silence prevailed, and then Imam al-Ridha (as) concluded the above hadith by the following words:

“But yet on some conditions, and I am one of the conditions”.

By this Divine Hadith,4 the holy Imam (as) intended to state three points:

Firstly, by naming his ancestors who had each quoted the hadith from the previous ones back to the Holy Prophet (S) who had himself heard it through the trusted Gabriel from the Exalted Lord, he could remind people of his honorable ancestors who were all Shi‘ite Imams and rightful Caliphs of the true path.

Secondly, to remind people of monotheism and theology, which are the cornerstones of all beliefs and contentions to avert them from getting duped by illegitimate rulers, taghuts, and the tyrannical bullies.

Thirdly, real and non-idolatrous monotheism and theology free from hypocrisy requires and accompanies the Wilayat of Ahl al-Bayt (as), and that unless a just leadership is not set up in the Muslims' community, the idols and pseudo-idols and the illegitimate rulers will not allow Divine Unity turn in the right path.

Historically, it is recorded that when writing down this hadith, the eager people were so prepared that they had in their disposal 24 thousand pen-holders to be used in writing the precious words of the Holy Prophet (S)'s descendent.5

https://www.al-islam.org/fourteen-luminaries-islam-ahmad-ahmadi-birjandi/tenth-infallible-hadhrat-imam-ali-b-musa-al-ridha#hadith-silsilat-al-dhahab-neyshabur

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The Belief of The Imamiya Concerning Tawhid

Says the learned Abu Ja'far Muhammad bin 'Ali bin Husayn bin Musa Ibn Babawayhi al-Qummi, the jurist, the author of this book: Know that our belief concerningtawhid is that Allah, exalted is He, is one (wahid) and absolutely unique (ahad).1 There is naught like unto Him; He is Prior (qadim)2; He never was non-existent and never will be; He is the Hearing and the Seeing One; the Omniscient ('alim), the Wise; the Living, the Everlasting, the Mighty ('aziz), the Holy (quddus), the Knowing One ('aalim), the Powerful, the Self-Sufficient (ghani).

He cannot be described by His Essence (jawhar); His Body (jism); His Form (sura), or by His Accidental Qualities ('arad)3. Nor in terms of length (khatt),breadth ('ard), surface (sath), weight (thiqal), lightness(khiffa), quiescence (sukun), motion (haraka), place(makdn) or time (zarnan). He, exalted is He, transcends all the attributes of His creatures; He is beyond both the limitations (hadd) of transcendence (ibtal) and of immanence (tashbih).4

He is a Thing (shay'), but not like other things.5 He is Unique (ahad), Eternal Refuge (samad), He begets not, lest He may be inherited; nor is He begotten, lest He may be associated (with others). There is no one like unto Him; He has no equal (nidd) or opponent (didd),compeer (shibh) or consort (sahibah). Nothing can be compared with Him (mithl); He has no rival (nazir), no partner (sharik).6 Human eyes cannot behold Him; while He discerns (the power of) eyes.7 The thoughts of men cannot compass Him; while He is aware of them.

“Slumber overtakes Him not, nor sleep” (Qur'an 2:255).

He is the Gracious (latif8) and the Knowing One (khabir),the Creator (khaliq) of all things. There is no deity (ilah)other than Him; to Him (alone) belongs (the power of) creation (khalq) and authority (amr). Blessed (tabaraka)is Allah, the Lord of the worlds. And he who believes intashbih (immanence) is a polytheist (mushrik).

And he, who attributes to the Shias beliefs other than those that have been stated concerning the Unity of Allah (tawhid), is a liar. And every report (khabar)contrary to what I have stated concerning tawhid is an invention (mawdu'/mukhtara'). Every tradition (hadith)which does not accord with the Book of Allah is null and void (batil), and if it is to be found in the books of our doctors, it is apocryphal (mudallas)9.

As for the reports (akhbar) which lead ignorant persons to imagine that Allah is comparable to His creatures, their meanings can be understood by the significance of similar passages in the Qur'an. For example, in the Qur'an (we have):

“Everything is perishable except His Face (wajh)”(Qur'an 28:88).

Now the meaning of wajh, in this context, is din (religion). And wajh is that whereby Allah is attained and wherewith one can turn to Him.10 And in the Qur'an (we have):

“On the day when the leg shall be bared11 and they shall be summoned to prostrate themselves, but they cannot; humbled shall be their eyes, and abasement shall overspread them for they had been summoned to prostrate themselves while they were yet unhurt” (Qur'an 68:42-43).12

Now saq (leg) means the result or consummation of the affair and its intensity.

And (there occurs) in the Qur'an:

“Lest a soul should say: Oh woe to me! For what I neglected in my duty (janb) towards Allah!” (Qur'an 39:56).

Here janb means obedience.13 And (we have) in the Qur'an:

“And I breathed into it of My spirit” (Qur'an 15:29).14

Now he created that spirit (ruh), and Allah had breathed of it into Adam and Jesus. He only said: “My ruh” and He said: “My house”; “My slave”, “My garden”15, “My fire”, and “My earth”.

And in the Qur'an (we have):

“Nay both His hands are outspread” (Qur'an 5:64)

By which is meant “the good of this world and the good of the next world”16. And in the Qur'an (we have):

“And the sky, We built it by (Our) hands” (Qur'an 51:47).

Now ayd (hand) means “strength”. And similarly, His Word, exalted is He:

“And remember Our slave David, possessed of ayd” (Qur'an 38:18)

That is, possessed of strength (quwwa). And in the Qur'an (we have):

“O! Iblis, what prevents thee from adoring, what I have created with my two Hands” (Qur'an 38:75).

(By two hands), He means “My power and My strength (qudra, quwwa).17 And in the Qur'an (we have):

''And on the Day of Resurrection the whole of the earth (will be) in His possession (qabda)” (Qur'an 39:67).

That is to say, it will be His property and no one will share the earth with Him. And in the Qur'an (we have):

“And the Heavens shall be rolled up, in His right hand (yamin)” (Qur'an 39:67).

(By “right hand”) is meant “His power” (qudra).

And in the Qur'an (we have):

“And Thy Lord shall come, while the angels shall be arranged rank on rank” (Qur'an 89:22).

This means that “the command” of Thy Lord shall come. And in the Qur'an (we have):

"Nay verily, from their Lord on that day are they veiled " (Qur'an 83:15).

That is, "from the reward (thawab) of their Lord". And in the Qur'an (we have):

"What do they expect but that Allah should come unto them in the shadows (zulal) of a cloud" (Qur'an 2:210).18

That is, "the punishment of Allah".And in the Qur'an (we have):

“Faces on that day shall be bright (nadira), gazing (nazira) on their Lord” (Qur'an 75:22-23)

That means (the faces) will be lighted up (mushriqa), looking at their Lord's reward. And in the Qur'an (we have):

“And he on whom my wrath descends is lost” (Qur'an 20:81).

Now the wrath of Allah is His punishment and His pleasure is His reward. And (we have) in the Qur'an:

“Thou knowest what is in my soul, but I know not what is in Thy soul” (Qur'an 5:116).19

That is, Thou hast knowledge of my innermost secrets, but I have no knowledge of Thy secrets. And in the Qur'an (we have):

“Allah biddeth you beware of Himself (nafs)” (Qur'an 3:28).

By nafs He means His revenge. And (we have) in the Qur'an:

“Verily Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet” (Qur'an 33:56).

Also: “He it is who blesseth you, and His angels (bless you)” (Qur'an 33:43).

Now salat from Allah means His mercy; and (salat) from angels is (their) asking for (your) pardon and purification20; and (salat) from men is prayer (du'a).

We have in the Qur'an:

“And they (the unbelievers or Jews) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them), and Allah is the best of schemers” (Qur'an 3:54).

Also: “Verily the hypocrites seek to beguile Allah, but it is, Allah Who beguiles them”21 (Qur'an 4:142).

As well as: “Allah doth mock them” (Qur'an 2:15).

And we have:

“Allah will deride at (sakhira) them “(Qur'an 9:79).

And we have:

“They have forgotten Allah, so He hath forgotten them” (9:67).

And the meaning of all this is that He, the Glorious and Mighty, shall requite them for their scheming (makr), beguiling (mukhada'a) mockery (istihza'), and forgetfulness (nisyan); and that is, He will make them forget themselves, as He, the Mighty and Glorious, has said: “And be not ye as those who forgot Allah, therefore He caused them to forget their souls” (Qur'an 59:19).

For in reality Allah, the Glorious and Mighty, does not scheme, nor does He beguile, deride, or forget.22Exalted is Allah beyond all this by His Greatness and Glory. In our traditions which are attacked by our opponents and heretics, there do not occur any words except those similar to these, and their meaning is the meaning of the words of the Qur'an.

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18 hours ago, BornShia said:

Is Allah First and Last?

YES.

There is a clear explicit Ayah about this in Quran.

Surah Hadeed 1-3

 سَبَّحَ لِلَّهِ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۖ وَهُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ
All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifies Allah, and He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.

 لَهُ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۖ يُحْيِي وَيُمِيتُ ۖ وَهُوَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ
To Him belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth; it is He Who gives life and causes death; and He has power over all things.

 هُوَ الْأَوَّلُ وَالْآخِرُ وَالظَّاهِرُ وَالْبَاطِنُ ۖ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ
He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent, and He has the knowledge of all things.

All above attributes belong only to Allah alone. considering them for anyone else is also shirk. While the eternal existence of all created beings in the life hereafter is only because of Allah.

 

18 hours ago, BornShia said:

Is The Holy Quran a creation of Allah?

Quran is a revelation, not a creation.
Same question was also asked by caliph mamun to scholars of his time.

In 827 CE, al-Ma’mun publicly adopted the doctrine of createdness, and six year later instituting an inquisition known as the mihna (test) to “ensure acquiescence in this doctrine”. According to Sunni tradition when "tested" Traditionist Ahmad ibn Hanbal refused to accept the doctrine of createdness despite two years imprisonment and being scourged until unconscious. Eventually, thanks at least in part to Hanbal's courage and commitment,[5] a new Caliph ended the mihna, the Mu'tazila fell from favor, and orthodoxy resumed its dominance.

18 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

 

 

 

Shirk is the only unforgivable sin. Its a fact.

Allah says He will not forgive shirk (if anyone dies in this state). but He forgives sins other than this for whomever He wants. (there is no any open license, only for those He wills).

 Nisa- 48) Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin.

 Nisa -116) Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly gone far astray.

 Hadith about this.

Abu Huraira said:

The Prophet of Allah () said: There is for every apostle a prayer which is granted, but every prophet showed haste in his prayer. I have, however, reserved my prayer for the intercession of my Ummah on the Day of Resurrection, and it would be granted, if Allah so willed, in case of everyone amongst my Ummah provided he dies without associating anything with Allah. Sahih Muslim 199. See here, http://www.sunnah.com/muslim/1/399

 

18 hours ago, Ali6 said:

I thought that Jews share the same belief in tawheed as Muslims.

Now, before you respond with, The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah" (Quran 9:30), I challenge you to find a single Jew who takes this statement literally. In fact, according to the Jewish Encyclopedia, all of the pious including Ezra are the children of God. 

The meaning of "Tauheed" is to believe that there is no Partner to Allah in any sense. If any person believes on the contrary, then his belief would constitute Shirk. Jews as well as christians also believe in tauheed (no doubt) but by associating partners with him.

 You quoted only a part of verse 9:30. read from 9:28 to 9:30 for clear understanding.

9:28

O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.

9:29

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture -  [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

 9:30

The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?

 If belief of jews about tawheed or about ezra is same as of muslims, then why Allah is criticising them. read above verses and think youself.

 If today jews do not believe in such thing about ezra its realy good thing. It means they have rejected false belief of their forefathers.

18 hours ago, BornShia said:

All religions including Jews, Christians, Hindus ..., all these believe in Tawhid like the Muslims do.

It is the definition of Tawhid, which has lead to plenty of wars. Everyone thinks that their definition of Tawhid is correct, and everyone else is wrong.

Add to that the Dawa, which tells others that your religion is wrong, but my sect/cult is correct. Therefore, I invite you to my sect/cult.

Agreed. All believe in tawheed. but they also do some sort of shirk. even some muslims as well but in different aspects. The acceptable tawheed is that which is free from association of partners or anyother thing.

 Few evidence from Quran.

 And most of them believe not in Allah except while they associate others with Him. [12:106]

Say, "This is my way; I invite to Allah with insight, I and those who follow me. And exalted is Allah ; and I am not of those who associate others with Him." [12:108]

 Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position." Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever. Zumar-3

Say, [O Muhammad], "Indeed, I have been commanded to worship Allah , [being] sincere to Him in religion. Zumar-11

 

17 hours ago, Al Amir said:

The Belief of The Imamiya Concerning Tawhid

Says the learned Abu Ja'far Muhammad bin 'Ali bin Husayn bin Musa Ibn Babawayhi al-Qummi, the jurist, the author of this book: Know that our belief concerningtawhid is that Allah, exalted is He, is one (wahid) and absolutely unique (ahad).1 There is naught like unto Him; He is Prior (qadim)2; He never was non-existent and never will be; He is the Hearing and the Seeing One; the Omniscient ('alim), the Wise; the Living, the Everlasting, the Mighty ('aziz), the Holy (quddus), the Knowing One ('aalim), the Powerful, the Self-Sufficient (ghani).

Agree.

But what shaikh sadooq has said about shirk and about Naml 59-65?

 

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31 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

If belief of jews about tawheed or about ezra is same as of muslims, then why Allah is criticising them. read above verses and think yourself.

 If today jews do not believe in such thing about ezra its really good thing. It means they have rejected false belief of their forefathers.

It seems more plausible to me that Quran 9:30 was referring to a fraction of Jews. In any case, what I do know for certain is that Jews today believe in tawheed to the same extent as Muslims. 

Edited by Ali6
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Main subject/focus of the post is "meaning of word illah".

To better understand the tawhid (Oneness of Allah), first you have to understand what are the things which make someone illah. If anyone apply any of the meaning/definition about illah as mentioned in Naml 59-65 to any person or thing, it means he/she has considered that person or thing as an illah. But the fact is that there is no illah except Allah. Our Tawhid become pure only when there will be no any traces of shirk in it.

Shirk is the most sensitive and serious issue in the sight of Allah, 1/3 of Quran is about Tawhid and shirk.

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18 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:
19 hours ago, BornShia said:

Is Allah First and Last?

YES.

If one is going to be forever in Heaven or Hell, then Allah cannot be Last. Correct?

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The foremost in religion is the acknowledgement of Him, the perfection of acknowledging Him is to testify Him, the perfection of testifying Him is to believe in His Oneness, the perfection of believing in His Oneness is to regard Him Pure, and the perfection of His purity is to deny Him attributes, because every attribute is a proof that it is different from that to which it is attributed and everything to which something is attributed is different from the attribute.

Thus whoever attaches attributes to Allah recognises His like, and whoever recognises His like regards Him two; and whoever regards Him as two recognises parts for Him; and whoever recognises parts for Him mistook Him; and whoever mistook Him pointed at Him; and whoever pointed at Him admitted limitations for Him; and whoever admitted limitations for Him numbered Him. Whoever said: ‘In what is He?’, held that He is contained; and whoever said: ‘On what is He?’, held He is not on something else.

He is a Being, but not through phenomenon of coming into being. He exists but not from non-existence. He is with everything but not in physical nearness. He is different from everything but not in physical separation. He acts but without connotation of movements and instruments. He sees even when there is none to be looked at from among His creation. He is only One, such that there is none with whom He may keep company or whom He may miss in his absence.

It will take you years to understand IMAM ALI

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9 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Main subject/focus of the post is "meaning of word illah".

To better understand the tawhid (Oneness of Allah), first you have to understand what are the things which make someone illah. If anyone apply any of the meaning/definition about illah as mentioned in Naml 59-65 to any person or thing, it means he/she has considered that person or thing as an illah. But the fact is that there is no illah except Allah. Our Tawhid become pure only when there will be no any traces of shirk in it.

Shirk is the most sensitive and serious issue in the sight of Allah, 1/3 of Quran is about Tawhid and shirk.

whats the matter with Naml 59/65

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On 7/7/2016 at 6:19 PM, BornShia said:

If one is going to be forever in Heaven or Hell, then Allah cannot be Last. Correct?

 

The eternal existence of created beings is because of only Allah. Its dependant. Just as the created being only exists because Allah created him, and he did not bring himself into existence on his own or with the help of any other created being, similarly the continued existence of creatures in the Hereafter is only because of His power of creation and His will and decree.

On 7/8/2016 at 3:26 AM, Al Amir said:

whats the matter with Naml 59/65

Naml 59-65 is a special place in Quran which explains different meanings of world ILLAH. As we all believe that there is no any illah except Allah. But what makes someone illah. Naml 59-65 answer this.

For example consider NAD e ALI, i.e calling Ali in times of hardships and worries. This is the practice performed by most of the shias and some sunnies as well. but what is ruling on such act according to Quran.

Naml 62 says, calling anyone besides Allah in times of distress, worries etc is like you have considered that person whom you are calling as an illah. this attribue belongs only to Allah.

An-Naml: Verse 62
أَمَّنْ يُجِيبُ الْمُضْطَرَّ إِذَا دَعَاهُ وَيَكْشِفُ السُّوءَ وَيَجْعَلُكُمْ خُلَفَاءَ الْأَرْضِ ۗ أَإِلَٰهٌ مَعَ اللَّهِ ۚ قَلِيلًا مَا تَذَكَّرُونَ

Is He [not best] who responds to the desperate one when he calls upon Him and removes evil and makes you inheritors of the earth? Is there a deity with Allah ? Little do you remember.

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2 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

For example consider NAD e ALI, i.e calling Ali in times of hardships and worries. This is the practice performed by most of the shias and some sunnies as well. but what is ruling on such act according to Quran.

I was waiting for you to get to this point. You could have saved us all time and simply start off with this.

I know how what high regard you hold the AhlulBayt so I have a question for you. Towards the end of Imam Hussain's battle in Karbala, he called out, "is there anyone to help me" . Did he commit shirk at this time?

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4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

The eternal existence of created beings is because of only Allah. Its dependant. Just as the created being only exists because Allah created him, and he did not bring himself into existence on his own or with the help of any other created being, similarly the continued existence of creatures in the Hereafter is only because of His power of creation and His will and decree.

Naml 59-65 is a special place in Quran which explains different meanings of world ILLAH. As we all believe that there is no any illah except Allah. But what makes someone illah. Naml 59-65 answer this.

For example consider NAD e ALI, i.e calling Ali in times of hardships and worries. This is the practice performed by most of the shias and some sunnies as well. but what is ruling on such act according to Quran.

Naml 62 says, calling anyone besides Allah in times of distress, worries etc is like you have considered that person whom you are calling as an illah. this attribue belongs only to Allah.

An-Naml: Verse 62
أَمَّنْ يُجِيبُ الْمُضْطَرَّ إِذَا دَعَاهُ وَيَكْشِفُ السُّوءَ وَيَجْعَلُكُمْ خُلَفَاءَ الْأَرْضِ ۗ أَإِلَٰهٌ مَعَ اللَّهِ ۚ قَلِيلًا مَا تَذَكَّرُونَ

Is He [not best] who responds to the desperate one when he calls upon Him and removes evil and makes you inheritors of the earth? Is there a deity with Allah ? Little do you remember.

Im against directly calling upon the saints anyway.But if its done as political chants its ok like Ya Ali Madad 

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7 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

For example consider NAD e ALI, i.e calling Ali in times of hardships and worries. This is the practice performed by most of the shias and some sunnies as well. but what is ruling on such act according to Quran.

The problem with children of ibn Taymiyyah that they are very weak and insecure in their eman. So, everything to them is shirk, shirk, bida, bida, shirk, shirk, bida, bida ........

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5 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

I was waiting for you to get to this point. You could have saved us all time and simply start off with this.

I know how what high regard you hold the AhlulBayt so I have a question for you. Towards the end of Imam Hussain's battle in Karbala, he called out, "is there anyone to help me" . Did he commit shirk at this time?

:) This point is only one example. only Naml 62 is related to this. Every verse that I have mentioned above is equally important. They give us more than 10 meanings by which one can become illah. This post is general, not addressing or refuting any particular problem. Shirk is when someone call for help those who are dead.

To whom did Imam Hussain called upon. To dead people or those who were alive and in front of him? Plz share full narration which adress this issue if possible.

3 hours ago, Al Amir said:

Im against directly calling upon the saints anyway.But if its done as political chants its ok like Ya Ali Madad 

agree. Calling any dead person directly for help is clear shirk as per naml 62. Saying Ya Ali as chnats is ok, but adding madad is not ok at all. with word madad it becomes O ALI HELP. Read naml 62 and try to understand brother. Its not a shia sunni issue, its about tauheed and shirk.

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6 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

agree. Calling any dead person directly for help is clear shirk as per naml 62. Saying Ya Ali as chnats is ok, but adding madad is not ok at all. with word madad it becomes O ALI HELP. Read naml 62 and try to understand brother. Its not a shia sunni issue, its about tauheed and shirk.

i said as a political slogan like the neo nazis say: heil fuhrer ! today hitler is dead today are they worshipping hitler ?

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13 minutes ago, BornShia said:

The problem with children of ibn Taymiyyah that they are very weak and insecure in their eman. So, everything to them is shirk, shirk, bida, bida, shirk, shirk, bida, bida ........

brother, I am not blind follower of any scholar including Ibn Taimiya. I dont read his books. Also there are many things about him which I realy dislike. I am quoting verses of Quran in my rplys. Instead of giving evidences in support of your ideas you are assuming about me things which are absolutely wrong.

10 minutes ago, Al Amir said:

i said as a political slogan like the neo nazis say: heil fuhrer ! today hitler is dead today are they worshipping hitler ?

You are right brother. Its all about intention.

But most of shias (not all) and some sunnies as well esp of indo pak say this having belief that all their propblems will be solved by ALI. when you say NAD E ALI. This is their intention.

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7 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

 

You are right brother. Its all about intention.

But most of shias (not all) and some sunnies as well esp of indo pak say this having belief that all their propblems will be solved by ALI. when you say NAD E ALI. This is their intention.

Becaus a lot of bullsh*t bidahs(inventions) entered into our religion.Where in the Quran can anoyone find a prophet or a holy person calling upon anything other than Allah ? Or where in the nahjul balagah,risalat al-huquq (by Imam Zaynul Abideen (as) ) 

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38 minutes ago, Fahad Sani said:

You are right brother. Its all about intention.

But most of shias (not all) and some sunnies as well esp of indo pak say this having belief that all their propblems will be solved by ALI. when you say NAD E ALI. This is their intention.

Intention is only know to Allah as He is the Owner of Ilum al-Ghaib. But abu Bakr has given you full permission to pronounce Tafkir on that person and kill him/her/them. This is what abu Bakr did by pronouncing Takfir on all the Yemeni Muslim who refused his khalifat and refused to pay the Zakkat money to him. He pronounced all these Muslims Kuffar and sent Khalid bin Walid to commit Zina on them.

So, we produced the Takfiri Religion, and those children of ibn Taymiyyah are ready to pronounce Tafkir on anyone, whoever doesn't beleive in their perverted view of religion due to weakness of their eman.

The rest is shirk, bida, shirk, bida, ........

BTW, Ali is the name of Allah.

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14 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Naml 62 says, calling anyone besides Allah in times of distress, worries etc is like you have considered that person whom you are calling as an illah. this attribue belongs only to Allah.

 

6 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

:) This point is only one example. only Naml 62 is related to this. Every verse that I have mentioned above is equally important. They give us more than 10 meanings by which one can become illah. This post is general, not addressing or refuting any particular problem. Shirk is when someone call for help those who are dead.

First you said calling anyone for help other than Allah is shirk. Then you have changed your stance that only calling Allah and alive people is OK but calling the dead is shirk. Any other caveats?

I am looking for the ayah that states calling Allah and alive people for help is okay.

What about the early sahaba (specifically the wives) who used the Prophet's cloak and drinking pot for wasilah? We're they committing shirk? The hadith is in Sahih-e-Sitta.

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On 7/10/2016 at 0:23 AM, shiaman14 said:

 

First you said calling anyone for help other than Allah is shirk. Then you have changed your stance that only calling Allah and alive people is OK but calling the dead is shirk. Any other caveats?

I am looking for the ayah that states calling Allah and alive people for help is okay.

What about the early sahaba (specifically the wives) who used the Prophet's cloak and drinking pot for wasilah? We're they committing shirk? The hadith is in Sahih-e-Sitta.

I think you have misunderstood my words. May be because I havnt explained properly.

Let me clarify.

Calling anyone (both dead and alive) for help, in form of dua/suppication, besides Allah is clear shirk.

Calling (in form of dua/supplication) dead or alive people and believing they are listening us (when actually they are not in front of us to listen, dead are in their graves and alive are somewhere else) and also believing they have the power/authority to fulfill all our wishes/requests is clear shirk. Dua/supplication is worship and there is no worship except for Allah.

WHile asking for help from alive people (our friends and family) when they are in front of us, or via a phone call is not at all shirk. such as asking someone for food or a glass of water or for support in fighting with others etc.

“and those who take protectors besides him say: ‘we only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allah’ Verily Allah will judge between them concerning that which they differ in. Verily, Allah does not guide he who is a liar, a disbeliever” (39:3)

“and they worship besides Allah things that harm them not nor benifit them. And they say: ‘these are our intercessors before Allah.'” (10:18)

Every worshipper should understand that there is no intermediary between him and Allah when worshipping him or asking him. All he has to do is ask Allah directly. This is why Allah says:

“and when my slaves ask you (o Muhammad) concerning me, then answer them, I am indeed near. I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on me”  (2:186)

 

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10 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

I think you have misunderstood my words. May be because I havnt explained properly.

Let me clarify.

Calling anyone (both dead and alive) for help, in form of dua/suppication, besides Allah is clear shirk.

Calling (in form of dua/supplication) dead or alive people and believing they are listening us (when actually they are not in front of us to listen, dead are in their graves and alive are somewhere else) and also believing they have the power/authority to fulfill all our wishes/requests is clear shirk. Dua/supplication is worship and there is no worship except for Allah.

WHile asking for help from alive people (our friends and family) when they are in front of us, or via a phone call is not at all shirk. such as asking someone for food or a glass of water or for support in fighting with others etc.

“and those who take protectors besides him say: ‘we only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allah’ Verily Allah will judge between them concerning that which they differ in. Verily, Allah does not guide he who is a liar, a disbeliever” (39:3)

“and they worship besides Allah things that harm them not nor benifit them. And they say: ‘these are our intercessors before Allah.'” (10:18)

Every worshipper should understand that there is no intermediary between him and Allah when worshipping him or asking him. All he has to do is ask Allah directly. This is why Allah says:

“and when my slaves ask you (o Muhammad) concerning me, then answer them, I am indeed near. I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on me”  (2:186)

 

Brother @Fahad Sani - please tell me you see the irony in telling us wasilah (intercession) is wrong and then quoting us an ayah where Muhammad is used as an intermediary between the people and Allah.

[Quran 5:35] O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and seek means of nearness to Him and strive hard in His way that you may be successful.

I suppose only believers believe in wasilah.

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15 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Brother @Fahad Sani - please tell me you see the irony in telling us wasilah (intercession) is wrong and then quoting us an ayah where Muhammad is used as an intermediary between the people and Allah.

[Quran 5:35] O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and seek means of nearness to Him and strive hard in His way that you may be successful.

I suppose only believers believe in wasilah.

Brother, I am not denying wasilah and intercession altogether. To send blessings on Prophet s.a.w.w is also a form of wasila. In fact the best way to ask Allah for anything is as follows:

Prophet s.a.w.w said: First praise Allah, then send blessings on me, then ask what you want from Allah.

What I am saying is that it has some limits. for e.g

If someone say Ya Muhammad Help, Ya Ali madad (help), or Ya Fatima help or Ya Hussain help or Ya xyz help, then its not at all wasilah, its clear shirk. Because its direct calling to others. WHich is clearly against the Quran (Naml 62).

But if someone say like this then its wasilah, O Allah help me or protect me or grant me such and such beacuse of my relation or love with your Prophet or servant etc. We cannot invoke directly anyone except Allah. (Ghafir 14)

Wasilah in Islam means anything that makes you closer to Allah. And the best of all types of wasilah is mentioned in this hadith: http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/81/91

Wasilah and intercession are two different things. And one way to assure intercession of Prophet s.a.w.w on the day of judgement is mentioned in this hadith: http://sunnah.com/muslim/4/13

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

Brother, I am not denying wasilah and intercession altogether. To send blessings on Prophet s.a.w.w is also a form of wasila. In fact the best way to ask Allah for anything is as follows:

Prophet s.a.w.w said: First praise Allah, then send blessings on me, then ask what you want from Allah.

What I am saying is that it has some limits. for e.g

If someone say Ya Muhammad Help, Ya Ali madad (help), or Ya Fatima help or Ya Hussain help or Ya xyz help, then its not at all wasilah, its clear shirk. Because its direct calling to others. WHich is clearly against the Quran (Naml 62).

But if someone say like this then its wasilah, O Allah help me or protect me or grant me such and such beacuse of my relation or love with your Prophet or servant etc. We cannot invoke directly anyone except Allah. (Ghafir 14)

Wasilah in Islam means anything that makes you closer to Allah. And the best of all types of wasilah is mentioned in this hadith: http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/81/91

Wasilah and intercession are two different things. And one way to assure intercession of Prophet s.a.w.w on the day of judgement is mentioned in this hadith: http://sunnah.com/muslim/4/13

I am not sure if there is a better word/translation for wasilah than intercession.

We are 100% agreed that we need the intercession of the Prophet on the Day of Judgement.

So the issue remains whether saying Ya Muhammad, Ya Ali, etc is shirk or not.

1) Does intention matter? When I Ya Ali Madad, I am not making Ali my Lord; just an ambassador/helper of Allah

2) We find in the Quran that Allah assumes the actions of some people as his actions. For example, Allah says about the Prophet that we found you an orphan and gave shelter (paraphrased). In reality, it was Hz Abu Talib who provided shelter to the orphaned Prophet. So, is it possible to assume that when Allah says to ask only Him for help, He means ask his representatives such as the Prophet?

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Salam

Actually Waslia in Arabic literally means, " a means to"

So Allah says find a means to get closer to me. The means to get closer to Allah, is to find someone who has the highest and most knowledge of Allah, and observes the highest taqwa.

Thru these people we can learn the ways to get closer to Allah. 

Hence the ahlul bayt are a wasila here, meaning a means to get closer to Allah.

The word Shafaat is closer to the translation of intercession

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1 hour ago, certainclarity said:

Salam

Actually Waslia in Arabic literally means, " a means to"

So Allah says find a means to get closer to me. The means to get closer to Allah, is to find someone who has the highest and most knowledge of Allah, and observes the highest taqwa.

Thru these people we can learn the ways to get closer to Allah. 

Hence the ahlul bayt are a wasila here, meaning a means to get closer to Allah.

The word Shafaat is closer to the translation of intercession

very nice.

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18 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

I am not sure if there is a better word/translation for wasilah than intercession.

We are 100% agreed that we need the intercession of the Prophet on the Day of Judgement.

So the issue remains whether saying Ya Muhammad, Ya Ali, etc is shirk or not.

1) Does intention matter? When I Ya Ali Madad, I am not making Ali my Lord; just an ambassador/helper of Allah

2) We find in the Quran that Allah assumes the actions of some people as his actions. For example, Allah says about the Prophet that we found you an orphan and gave shelter (paraphrased). In reality, it was Hz Abu Talib who provided shelter to the orphaned Prophet. So, is it possible to assume that when Allah says to ask only Him for help, He means ask his representatives such as the Prophet?

Saying Ya Muhammad, Ya Ali, etc is not shirk. Shirk is when someone add more to it like, Ya Muhammad or Ya Ali help me or protect me or grant me such and such etc.

In fact many sunnies specially of Indo-Pak-Bangla region also practice this.

1) Does intention matter? When I Ya Ali Madad, I am not making Ali my Lord; just an ambassador/helper of Allah.

Yes, intention does matter in everything we do or say. But in this case your purpose/intention may be good but method is wrong. When you are saying YA ALI MADAD, it simply means you are directly saying this to Ali that help me. You are not invoking/mentioning Allah here. Instead you should say YA Allah MADAD by virtue of, or by cause of, or for the sake of, or in view of, or by your sincere servant MUHAMMAD OR ALI OR FATIMA OR HASSAN OR HUSSAIN etc. Now it’s the correct way. Because here we are calling/invoking directly to Allah and mentioning some means (like by virtue of etc) to accept our request/supplication. Invoking/calling/supplicating anyone directly besides Allah is no doubt a clear shirk. Its like we have considered such person as an ILLAH or DIETY. Because its clearly against the QURAN. This is not the way of invoking Allah, as taught by QURAN.

NAML-62:

Is He [not best] who responds to the desperate one when he calls upon Him and removes evil and makes you inheritors of the earth? Is there a deity with Allah ? Little do you remember.

GHAFIR-14 & 60

So invoke Allah , [being] sincere to Him in religion, although the disbelievers dislike it.

And your Lord says, "Call upon Me; I will respond to you." Indeed, those who disdain My worship will enter Hell [rendered] contemptible.

NAHL-86

And when those who associated others with Allah see their "partners," they will say," Our Lord, these are our partners [to You] whom we used to invoke besides You." But they will throw at them the statement, "Indeed, you are liars."

SABA-22 & 23.

Say, [O Muhammad], "Invoke those you claim [as deities] besides Allah." They do not possess an atom's weight [of ability] in the heavens or on the earth, and they do not have therein any partnership [with Him], nor is there for Him from among them any assistant.

And intercession does not benefit with Him except for one whom He permits. [And those wait] until, when terror is removed from their hearts, they will say [to one another], "What has your Lord said?" They will say, "The truth." And He is the Most High, the Grand.

 

The phrase YA ALI MADAD is actually a short form or derived from famous NAD E ALI (calling upon ALI). And the real intention behind this phrase is what is mentioned in NAD E ALI.

Naad-e-Aliyyan Madh'haral Ajaaib. Tajid'hoo Awnan Laka Fin-Nawaaib. Kullu Hammin Wa Ghammin Sayanjalee Bi Wilaayatik. Yaa Aliyyu, Yaa Aliyyu, Yaa Ali.

"Call Ali, He is able to bring about the extraordinary. You will find him an effective supporter in all calamities. All worries and sorrows will soon disappear on account of your authority, O Ali, O Ali, O Ali".

This is the main problem, calling/invoking anyone besides Allah. And the purpose of calling is very clear from NAD E ALI. Now, compare this with only NAML-62. Its like considering ALI a god (deity). But there is no god (illah) except Allah.

 

2) We find in the Quran that Allah assumes the actions of some people as his actions. For example, Allah says about the Prophet that we found you an orphan and gave shelter (paraphrased). In reality, it was Hz Abu Talib who provided shelter to the orphaned Prophet. So, is it possible to assume that when Allah says to ask only Him for help, He means ask his representatives such as the Prophet?

No. There is no such assumption to this. Every day in prayer we repeat this oath.

FATIHA-4: Thee alone we worship and to Thee alone we pray for help.

The Arabic word ibadah is used in three senses: (a)worship and devotion, (b) submission and obedience, (c) subjection and servitude. Here it implies all the three, that is, We are Thy worshipers, Thy subjects and Thy slaves and We keep these relations with Thee and Thee alone and "We make none else the object of our worship in all the three senses."

It means, We ask for Thy help because we know that Thou art the Lord of the whole Universe and Thou hast all powers and Thou art the Master of every thing. Therefore we turn to Thee for help for the fulfillment of our needs and requirements.

Hadith e Qudsi, Bukhari 6502.

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Messenger () said, "Allah said, 'I will declare war against him who shows hostility to a pious worshipper of Mine. And the most beloved things with which My slave comes nearer to Me, is what I have enjoined upon him; and My slave keeps on coming closer to Me through performing Nawafil (praying or doing extra deeds besides what is obligatory) till I love him, so I become his sense of hearing with which he hears, and his sense of sight with which he sees, and his hand with which he grips, and his leg with which he walks; and if he asks Me, I will give him, and if he asks My protection (Refuge), I will protect him; (i.e. give him My Refuge) and I do not hesitate to do anything as I hesitate to take the soul of the believer, for he hates death, and I hate to disappoint him."

Nahjul Balagha, sermon 110

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-110-best-means-which-seekers-nearness-Allah

The best means by which seekers of nearness to Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, seek nearness, is the belief in Him and His Prophet, fighting in His cause, for it is the high pinnacle of Islam, and (to believe) in the kalimatu'l-'ikhlas (the expression of Divine purification) for it is just nature and the establishment of prayer for it is (the basis of) community, payment of zakat (Islamic tax) for it is a compulsory obligation, fasting for the month of Ramadan for it is the shield against chastisement, the performance of hajj of the House of Allah (i. e . Ka`bah) and its `umrah (other than annual visit) for these two acts banish poverty and wash away sins, regard for kinship for it increases wealth and length of life, to giving alms secretly for it covers shortcomings, giving alms openly for it protects against a bad death and extending benefits (to people) for it saves from positions of disgrace.

Go ahead with the remembrance of Allah for it is the best remembrance, and long for that which He has promised to the pious, for His promise is the most true promise. Tread the course of the Prophet for it is the most distinguished course. Follow the sunnah of the Prophet for it is the most right of all behaviours. Learn the Qur'an for it is the fairest of discourses and understand it thoroughly for it is the best blossoming of hearts. Seek cure with its light for it is the cure for hearts. Recite it beautifully for it is the most beautiful narration. Certainly, a scholar who acts not according to his knowledge is like the off-headed ignorant who does not find relief from his ignorance, but on the learned the plea of Allah is greater and grief more incumbent, and he is more blameworthy before Allah.

 


 
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4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Saying Ya Muhammad, Ya Ali, etc is not shirk. Shirk is when someone add more to it like, Ya Muhammad or Ya Ali help me or protect me or grant me such and such etc.

In fact many sunnies specially of Indo-Pak-Bangla region also practice this.

1) Does intention matter? When I Ya Ali Madad, I am not making Ali my Lord; just an ambassador/helper of Allah.

Yes, intention does matter in everything we do or say. But in this case your purpose/intention may be good but method is wrong. When you are saying YA ALI MADAD, it simply means you are directly saying this to Ali that help me. You are not invoking/mentioning Allah here. Instead you should say YA Allah MADAD by virtue of, or by cause of, or for the sake of, or in view of, or by your sincere servant MUHAMMAD OR ALI OR FATIMA OR HASSAN OR HUSSAIN etc. Now it’s the correct way. Because here we are calling/invoking directly to Allah and mentioning some means (like by virtue of etc) to accept our request/supplication. Invoking/calling/supplicating anyone directly besides Allah is no doubt a clear shirk. Its like we have considered such person as an ILLAH or DIETY. Because its clearly against the QURAN. This is not the way of invoking Allah, as taught by QURAN.

 

So you are saying it is okay to say YA ALI MADAD BEHAQQE Allah SWT? Every shia who says Ya Ali Madad knows that Ali only helps with the Permission (IZN) of Allah so we do not feel the need to spell it out.

 

4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

SABA-22 & 23.

Say, [O Muhammad], "Invoke those you claim [as deities] besides Allah." They do not possess an atom's weight [of ability] in the heavens or on the earth, and they do not have therein any partnership [with Him], nor is there for Him from among them any assistant.

And intercession does not benefit with Him except for one whom He permits. [And those wait] until, when terror is removed from their hearts, they will say [to one another], "What has your Lord said?" They will say, "The truth." And He is the Most High, the Grand.

The above verse of intercession is not talking about intercession in the hereafter and in there 'herenow'.

4 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

2) We find in the Quran that Allah assumes the actions of some people as his actions. For example, Allah says about the Prophet that we found you an orphan and gave shelter (paraphrased). In reality, it was Hz Abu Talib who provided shelter to the orphaned Prophet. So, is it possible to assume that when Allah says to ask only Him for help, He means ask his representatives such as the Prophet?

No. There is no such assumption to this. Every day in prayer we repeat this oath.

FATIHA-4: Thee alone we worship and to Thee alone we pray for help.

Sure enough "Thee alone we worship and to Thee alone we pray for help." But what does that mean?

[QURAN 93:6] Did He not find you an orphan and give you shelter?

Who found the Prophet to be an orphan and gave him shelter? Does the HE refer to Allah or Abu Talib? Sure enough it refers to Allah but Allah's help manifests itself in a variety of ways. 

Similarly, Allah gives life and death but we find that the Angel of Death actually takes live away. What does this mean? It simply means that Allah's representatives do the work for Allah but that does not make them Allah's equal or deity - it simply makes them Allah's helper. And the Prophet and the Imams were merely Allah's helpers - no more no less.

 

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On 7/27/2016 at 8:35 PM, shiaman14 said:

So you are saying it is okay to say ? Every shia who says Ya Ali Madad knows that Ali only helps with the Permission (IZN) of Allah so we do not feel the need to spell it out.

 

Where did I said this " YA ALI MADAD BEHAQQE Allah SWT ".

I said this:

On 7/27/2016 at 3:51 PM, Fahad Sani said:

Yes, intention does matter in everything we do or say. But in this case your purpose/intention may be good but method is wrong. When you are saying YA ALI MADAD, it simply means you are directly saying this to Ali that help me. You are not invoking/mentioning Allah here. Instead you should say YA Allah MADAD by virtue of, or by cause of, or for the sake of, or in view of, or by your sincere servant MUHAMMAD OR ALI OR FATIMA OR HASSAN OR HUSSAIN etc. Now it’s the correct way.

Following the same logic it means Christian are also correct when they say O Jesus Help. Because Quran says when Prophet Issa a.s showed miracles to people he said I am doing all this with permission of Allah (Bi’izn’illah). Not all but there are some Christians who actually believe like this. While majority directly call him considering god. Also they say our intentions are good and everyone will be judged by their intention. Will you accept their excuse as intention is good?

There is a live example to this on SC. Member Loveall. This thread http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235040275-dying-in-your-sins/?page=1

Where he was switching himself b/w Islam and Christianity. And he said in one of his post that “Remember we will be judged based on intentions not who our parents were or what religion we belonged to”. While Quran clearly says Only acceptable religion to Allah is Islam.

If such excuses/intentions are to be accepted then why not of Christians and of hindus etc.

 

On 7/27/2016 at 8:35 PM, shiaman14 said:

The above verse of intercession is not talking about intercession in the hereafter and in there 'herenow'.

 

Every single verse of Quran is talking about herenow (at the time when it was revealed) but the same all verses are also applicable on everyone till the day of qiyyamah. And real intercession will be after qiyyamah on the day of judgement, not here in this world. And those two verses are a special place in Quran, where Allah is refuting major misconcepts of disbelievers/polytheist at one place. To understand the distinction between the Islamic concept of intercession and the polytheistic concept, see Yunus: 3, 18; Hud: 76, 105; Ta Ha: 109; Al-Anbiya': 28; AI-Hajj: 76.

 

On 7/27/2016 at 8:35 PM, shiaman14 said:

Sure enough "Thee alone we worship and to Thee alone we pray for help." But what does that mean?

[QURAN 93:6] Did He not find you an orphan and give you shelter?

Who found the Prophet to be an orphan and gave him shelter? Does the HE refer to Allah or Abu Talib? Sure enough it refers to Allah but Allah's help manifests itself in a variety of ways. 

Similarly, Allah gives life and death but we find that the Angel of Death actually takes live away. What does this mean? It simply means that Allah's representatives do the work for Allah but that does not make them Allah's equal or deity - it simply makes them Allah's helper. And the Prophet and the Imams were merely Allah's helpers - no more no less.

Agree. Only Allah helps but manifests itself in a variety of ways. So Allah chose Abu Talib for this task, no doubt. But how was his help? He was alive at that time, in front of Prophet. His help and support for Prophet was in the same way as we help our families and friends, but when we die they don’t invoke us for help. Did Prophet ever call/invoke Abu Talib for help/support after his (Abu Talib) death?

No doubt, Allah has assigned various duties to angels. It’s a fact. But yet we see no muslim directly call angels for help or rizq etc, like O Jibrail help, O Mikail bring rain, assuming they will help with permission of Allah only. If anyone is really doing this, he is surely following the path of polytheist. In all cases we have to invoke Allah alone (after invoking Allah then we can provide any waseela), because only he has the ability to listen everyone at the same time. Then its upto Allah, whichever angel he send for our assistance/help.

That is Allaah, your Lord; to Him belongs sovereignty. And those whom you invoke other than Him do not possess [as much as] the membrane of a date seed. If you invoke them, they do not hear your supplication; and if they heard, they would not respond to you. And on the Day of Resurrection they will deny your association. And none can inform you like [one] Acquainted [with all matters]. [Quran 35:13-14]

Above verse is also herenow. Addressing and challenging polytheists of that time.

While same is not true (as what is for angels). Neither for Prophet nor for Ahlebayt, so there is no point in calling/invoking them directly. It doesn’t matter you say just YA ALI MADAD or YA ALI MADAD BI HAQY Allah etc. Or whatever your intention may be. Because the basis/foundation itself is wrong. Direct invocation is only to Allah for help/rizq etc.

Here is the proof:

https://www.al-islam.org/uyun-akhbar-ar-ridha-volume-2-shaykh-saduq/chapter-46-what-has-been-narrated-ar-ridha-regarding

46-3 Muhammad ibn Ali Majilawayh - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Ali ibn Ibrahim ibn Hashem quoted on the authority of his father, on the authority of Yasir - the servant: I asked Ar-Ridha’ (a.s.), “What do you think about turning over the affairs?” He (a.s.) answered, “The Blessed the Sublime God has turned over the affairs of His Religion to His Prophet (S) and said, ‘…So take what the Apostle assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you.. God, however, will not turn over the affairs of Creation and provision of the sustenance to the Prophet (S). ” Then Ar-Ridha’ (a.s.) added, “In fact, the Honorable the Exalted God said, ‘…Allah is the Creator of all things…’ God also said, ‘It is Allah Who has created you: further, He has provided for your sustenance; then He will cause you to die; and again He will give you life. Are there any of your (false) ‘partners’ who can do any single one of these things? Glory be to Him! and high is He above the partners they attribute (to him)!’”

46-4 Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Abi Bashshar - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Abul Faraj al-Mudhaffar ibn Ahmad ibn Al-Hassan al-Qazvini quoted on the authority of Al-Abbas ibn Muhammad ibn Qasim ibn Hamza ibn Musa ibn Ja’far (a.s.), on the authority of Al-Hassan ibn Sahl al-Qummi, on the authority of Muhammad ibn Khalid, on the authority of Abi Hashem al-Ja’fari that he had asked Abal Hassan Ar-Ridha’ (a.s.) about the boasters and those who believed in (God) turning over (all) the affairs. The Imam (a.s.) replied, “The boasters are unbelievers and those who believe in (God) turning over (all) the affairs (to the Prophet (S)) are polytheists. Whoever associates with them; visits them; eats or drinks with them; becomes related to them; gives a daughter in marriage to or marries with one of their daughters; grants them immunity; considers them honest in keeping what they are entrusted with; or acknowledges what they say or assists them in what they say has exited from the circle of the Mastery of the Honorable the Exalted God, the Mastery of God’s Prophet (S) and the Mastery of us - the Members of the Holy Household.”

We have to practice pure tawheed as taught by Allah, Prophet s.a.w.w and Ahlebayt a.s.

Edited by Fahad Sani
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