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aansoogas

Taqiyah and the possible limitations

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I would like to ask something on the subject......:

if someone is under Taqiyah, can he give a false or misleading statement on religion or deen?

And if yes, can he ascribe something to someone like a scholar or an Ayatollah where as the latter might not have said such a thing?

[Note: Anyone who would like to respond to the above is requested to use rather brief quotations/references where required]. Thanks.

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Taqiyyah is allowed in matters to your own self, where your life could be in danger. Taqiyyah should not be used to harm someone else.

"Third Rule: Taqiyyah is allowed in matters related to manifestation of friendship or enmity; and it is also allowed in matters connected to professing (their) religion. But it is certainly not allowed in matters which affect other persons, like murder, fornication, usurpation of property, perjury, slander..."

Taqiyyah

 

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@hameedeh thanks sister that was a bit helpful. So what i understand is that not just professing to (their) religion is allowed for one under Taqiyah, but he can give misleading statements in religious matters.

My second question needs your attention, can one then ascribe something to someone like a scholar or an Ayatollah or an Imam where as the latter might not have said such a thing?

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so the question is whether those in a state of Taqqaiyah can ascribe non-factual statements to other individuals?

For instance, if i under state of Taqqaiyah say that ayatullah khui said so and so, whereas he actually did not..... would that be permissible... Right?

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8 hours ago, aansoogas said:

if someone is under Taqiyah, can he give a false or misleading statement on religion or deen?

If it is being done to save one's life, then yes.

8 hours ago, aansoogas said:

And if yes, can he ascribe something to someone like a scholar or an Ayatollah where as the latter might not have said such a thing?

[Note: Anyone who would like to respond to the above is requested to use rather brief quotations/references where required]. Thanks.

If it is being done to save one's life, then yes.

3 hours ago, Bukhari8k said:

so the question is whether those in a state of Taqqaiyah can ascribe non-factual statements to other individuals?

For instance, if i under state of Taqqaiyah say that ayatullah khui said so and so, whereas he actually did not..... would that be permissible... Right?

You are allowed to save your life, so if attributing something to someone will save your life, then it would be permissible. Let's use an example:

Let's say I get kidnapped by Shia zealots along with several others. They say they will release anyone who can quote something from Khoei. I say, "Khoei said every life is important" and they let me go. Nothing wrong with this.

Taqiyyah is only used to save one's life or family's life like what the Yazdis, Shias AND Sunnis did in Iraq to save themselves from ISIS.

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Yes, but only in very extreme situations, when there is clear chance of loss of one's life.

General rule about taqiyyah.

Taqiyyah in Islam is fundamentally practiced against the Kuffar. You cannot practise taqiyyah against muslims. In this case it would be called a clear lie not taqiyyah. As it is duty of every muslim to guide his muslim brothers if they are wrong. Not to do taqiyyah and hide the facts. Because misguiding someone is a major sin than lying.

Allah says:

“Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Awliya’ (supporters, helpers, etc.) instead of the believers, and whoever does that will never be helped by Allah in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:28].

As per Quran it can be only done against disbelievers. That's the reason why Imam Hussain, Imam Zaid bin Ali, Imam Musa Kazim, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Nasai & many others did not performed any taqiyyah and sacrificed their lives for sake of guidance of muslims.

If there is likelihood that one's taqiyyah may destroy the belief of other believers, and then taqiyyah is forbidden to such a person. Source: https://www.al-islam.org/taqiyyah-sayyid-akhtar-rizvi/when-taqiyyah-not-allowed#question-12

 

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8 hours ago, Fahad Sani said:

Yes, but only in very extreme situations, when there is clear chance of loss of one's life.

General rule about taqiyyah.

Taqiyyah in Islam is fundamentally practiced against the Kuffar. You cannot practise taqiyyah against muslims. In this case it would be called a clear lie not taqiyyah. As it is duty of every muslim to guide his muslim brothers if they are wrong. Not to do taqiyyah and hide the facts. Because misguiding someone is a major sin than lying.

Allah says:

“Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Awliya’ (supporters, helpers, etc.) instead of the believers, and whoever does that will never be helped by Allah in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:28].

As per Quran it can be only done against disbelievers. That's the reason why Imam Hussain, Imam Zaid bin Ali, Imam Musa Kazim, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Nasai & many others did not performed any taqiyyah and sacrificed their lives for sake of guidance of muslims.

If there is likelihood that one's taqiyyah may destroy the belief of other believers, and then taqiyyah is forbidden to such a person. Source: https://www.al-islam.org/taqiyyah-sayyid-akhtar-rizvi/when-taqiyyah-not-allowed#question-12

 

Agreed.

Do you consider taqiyyah against ISIS in Iraq valid or not?

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I would be more interested in knowing if taqiyyah is sometimes an obligation or not. Are there any occasions where taqiyyah is an obligation, not only permissible? And what would be the Qur'anic basis for that as it seems to me that taqiyyah from a Qur'anic point of view is only allowed, never an obligation and it's more rewarding if you don't practice it.

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4 hours ago, GreatChineseFall said:

I would be more interested in knowing if taqiyyah is sometimes an obligation or not. Are there any occasions where taqiyyah is an obligation, not only permissible? And what would be the Qur'anic basis for that as it seems to me that taqiyyah from a Qur'anic point of view is only allowed, never an obligation and it's more rewarding if you don't practice it.

An obligation? What do you mean?

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1 hour ago, GreatChineseFall said:

Are there circumstances when taqiyyah is prescribed/obligatory instead of only permissible/allowed?

Yes, to save one's life and property - then it is obligatory. Even to save another person's life or property.

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@shiaman14 @GreatChineseFall @Fahad Sani @hameedeh @Tawheed313

On 7/5/2016 at 4:59 PM, shiaman14 said:

You are allowed to save your life, so if attributing something to someone will save your life, then it would be permissible.

Now i come to my actual question. Many imams remained much of their lives under Taqiyah. There followers must have too,,, right?

Then why only (when analyzing such traditions that go against shia beliefs/practices) imams are expected to have said certain things under Taqiyah and not any other person with in that Sanad.

Is not it possible that Abu Baseer or Zurarah might have attributed something to Imams under Taqiyah and that something found its place in a shia book?

[specially when there is no fool proof way (the only way told is that the ulemas can judge) to find who did Taqiyah]

--------------------------------------------------------------

I would like to quote two interesting incidents believing that they are deemed reliable by shias themselves which would give quite a flexibility in exercising Taqiyah.

al Kafi H 192, Ch. 21, h 5 Ahmad ibn Idris has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Jabbar from al-Hassan ibn Ali from Al-Thaqafi‘laba ibn Maymun from Zurara ibn ‘A‘yan who has said the following. "I asked Imam abu Ja‘far (a.s.) a question and he answered me. Then an other man came and asked the same question but the Imam gave a different answer. Then a third man came and asked the same question but the Imam gave him an answer that was different from both of the previous answers. When the other two men left I asked the Imam (a.s.), "Two of your followers from Iraq asked you the same question, how is it that you gave each one a different answer? The Imam replied, "O Zurarah, it is better for us and it gives all of us more time. If you all would say the same thing, people will know that you speak the truth from us and this will leave all of us with less time.

Sheikh Sudooq in "Essence of Shia Fatih" quotes imam Jafar Sadiq as follows:

The same Imam has also commanded us,
“To become their strength instead of weakness by accompany their (enemies) funeral cortège to the graveyard, pray with them in their mosques and seek wellbeing of their sick. May God shower His blessings on him who ignites our love in our enemy‟s hearts and does not display us in their eyes as their foe?”

Edited by aansoogas

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54 minutes ago, aansoogas said:

@shiaman14 @GreatChineseFall @Fahad Sani @hameedeh @Tawheed313

I would like to quote two interesting incidents believing that they are deemed reliable by shias themselves which would give quite a flexibility in exercising Taqiyah.

al Kafi H 192, Ch. 21, h 5 Ahmad ibn Idris has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Jabbar from al-Hassan ibn Ali from Al-Thaqafi‘laba ibn Maymun from Zurara ibn ‘A‘yan who has said the following. "I asked Imam abu Ja‘far (a.s.) a question and he answered me. Then an other man came and asked the same question but the Imam gave a different answer. Then a third man came and asked the same question but the Imam gave him an answer that was different from both of the previous answers. When the other two men left I asked the Imam (a.s.), "Two of your followers from Iraq asked you the same question, how is it that you gave each one a different answer? The Imam replied, "O Zurarah, it is better for us and it gives all of us more time. If you all would say the same thing, people will know that you speak the truth from us and this will leave all of us with less time.

So you know by more time and less time Imam means that their life is under threat. As stated above, when life is in danger, it is obligatory to save it.

55 minutes ago, aansoogas said:

@shiaman14

The same Imam has also commanded us,
“To become their strength instead of weakness by accompany their (enemies) funeral cortège to the graveyard, pray with them in their mosques and seek wellbeing of their sick. May God shower His blessings on him who ignites our love in our enemy‟s hearts and does not display us in their eyes as their foe?”

Is it not taqiyah but ikhlaq (well manners). Think of example of the old woman in Mecca who used to throw trash at our Prophet. When she was sick, the Prophet went to visit her and it ignited a love for Allah and the Prophet in her heart. What the Imam is saying is that no matter how many shias you kill (you as in the terrorists/salafis), we will continue to be who we are.

Hope this helps.

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7 hours ago, aansoogas said:

@shiaman14 @GreatChineseFall @Fahad Sani @hameedeh @Tawheed313

Is not it possible that Abu Baseer or Zurarah might have attributed something to Imams under Taqiyah and that something found its place in a shia book?
 

Yes.They did many times. See rijal Kashi only.

taqqiyah is permissable only under extreme conditions while normally it is haram to practice. same as the case with wine, meat of dead animal etc. But people like abu basir and zurarah had not only performed taqqiyah in matters which were very minor, not even a child will do taqiyyah on such matters, but also they attributed such things to Imams from Ahlebait (In reality none from Imams practiced taqqiyah). I think more than 50% narrations from all shia hadith books are based on taqqiyah. Proof of such claim is two books Al-Istibsar and Tehzib ul Ahkam of Shaikh Toosi. But unfortunately shia scholars have not translated any single chapter from these books and distributed among their followers. Although these two books are among the four fundamental hadith collections of shias.

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1 hour ago, Fahad Sani said:

I think more than 50% narrations from all shia hadith books are based on taqqiyah. Proof of such claim is two books Al-Istibsar and Tehzib ul Ahkam of Shaikh Toosi. 

I think the same about 50% of your posts brother. Need to present proof not fiction.

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